EX500 Ignition Advancer works on 88-07 250's?

[fjyang]

Hi Guys,

Posting this questions to more season mechanics on 250's or tinker who fettle around engine mods. Besides jet kit, exhaust, pod filters the next easy thing to get some power is ignition advancer but none is available and the closest found is ex500 advancer for 86-90 and was wondering if anyone tried fitting a advancer on their 250? or know if the EX500 would work?

[choneofakind]

I'm not sure. Factory Pro makes some statement about the ignition advancer for the ex500 having the same woodruff key (whatever that is?) as the ninja 250, but that they don't make an ignition advancer for the 250...

We do NOT NOT NOT NOT (not!) make an ignition advance kit for the ex250!
NOT! No! Non! Nadda! Nyet!

BUT!!!!
The ex250 uses a large, 3 bolt flywheel puller that only a dealer would have.
The woodruff key from the RTR-KAW-5-05 is the same key that fits the 250.....

If you buy the RTR-KAW-5-05 kit, you can use the supplied woodruff key and the installation instructions for the ex500...... and you'll have a nice ex500 flywheel puller tool, too!
NO! You can't buy the key without the puller, I know you can't use the puller - but - as I said, I don't make a 250 kit......

You could get the ecotrons EFI kit and that has the ability to control your spark and your fuel mix, all in one.

The other option is look into the 88-07 CDI. Kawasaki might have changed the ignition timing between generations. I know many new-geners use a rewired pregen CDI for the preferable advancement.

[CynicalC]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I'm not sure. Factory Pro makes some statement about the ignition advancer for the ex500 having the same woodruff key (whatever that is?) as the ninja 250, but that they don't make an ignition advancer for the 250...



You could get the ecotrons EFI kit and that has the ability to control your spark and your fuel mix, all in one.

The other option is look into the 88-07 CDI. Kawasaki might have changed the ignition timing between generations. I know many new-geners use a rewired pregen CDI for the preferable advancement.

Changing the ignition timing is some pretty advanced tuning. You really should know what you're doing without having to ask them for help. My guess is they just don't want to shoulder the liability. They're basically saying you can make it work, but they're not gonna be your tech support, and if you blow your motor because you don't know what you're doing, you're SOL.

By the way, a woodruff key is made to fit in a crescent shaped keyway on a shaft. This way you don't need a setscrew to keep the key in place, as there's no axial movement allowed (where there would be with a normal slotted keyway)



It's the tiny little half moon shaped piece.

[Somchai]

Hello Frank,

I'd order the kit and got it fitted to my 250 EFI.

My setup is:
- Leovince full system
- Leovince FAST
- Factorypro ignition advancer

With the above changes it is like day and night. After installing the FAST it had more power already but now after advancing the ignition it's really unbelievable fantastic. That's exactly what the Ninjette needs.

Good rides,
Somchai

[CNI Dawg]

Anybody tried this ignition advancer on the 08-11 EX250 ???

[Somchai]

Bill, please read post #4, my ninjette is a 2011.

[CNI Dawg]

Originally Posted by Somchai

Bill, please read post #4, my ninjette is a 2011.

Thanks !

[red26]

Hi somchai, do you put it by yourself? Do you mind sharing on how the installation goes?
My advancer just came in today and i plan to install it tomorrow

[krolinked]

I too would like to know!

[Somchai]

Originally Posted by red26

Hi somchai, do you put it by yourself? Do you mind sharing on how the installation goes?
My advancer just came in today and i plan to install it tomorrow

No, I didn't put it in by myself cos you need the puller for the flywheel what I don't have, so I got it put in from the Kwaki-Center.
But at least if you have the puller it's quite easy, just take care about the oil.
This in my opinion is one of the best mod.

[Racer x]

At this point I think we need to start an ignition map database.
I have found all sort of plus and minus things with timing. To much to comment accurately.
The first gen is 42 deg. This is good for all the 250 ninjas. As the second gen is 35 deg it benefits from seven deg of timing advance. But more is not always better.
Once you go to pistons carbs exhaust. You open up an opertunity to do better. I found from using the BRT that timing can really do a lot good and bad.

The question is what forum do we put the database in? @Alex can one thread be in three forums? Like 86-07, 08-12, and the 300?

[Alex]

Not really; a thread can only be in one place at a time. But - if you created 3 separate threads, then I could merge them, and leave pointers in the 2 other places that would take you to the one remaining thread.

[red26]

Yeah racer X, i forgot to mention that i run an FI model. Hence BRT system is not available for us. Correct me if i'm wrong, but the other option is flashing ecu which i think would be catastrophic if not made right.

[Racer x]

Sorry that is my fault. I am carb centric. Being able to adjust the fuel mixture and ignition is basic to modifing other things. Some one must be able to make an adjustable Ecu (just for racing of course).

[redkid]

yeah, i'm also loving carb as i literally raised by them!
i have entered the dark side (FI) without a clue and slowly starts to digest it.
the only thing i can't digest is the cost of richen up the mixture i have ordered a Bazzaz for it and we'll see how much it improves. it is currently running on a crap exhaust (26.59Bhp), waiting for a fullsystem from 2Bros.

[quarterliter]

X is there any power to be gained with more timing on the pregens?

[choneofakind]

Interested as well since I have control over my ignition. They're already at 42 degrees

[Racer x]

42 is sorta the max. But if you raise compression you will want less.

That was my point about starting a data base. I have 12.5 to 1 now and run 38 ~40 in different RPM ranges. There is a lot of potential in timing changes. But it is a fine tune thing. Like making the power band smoother.

[quarterliter]

Is there any benefit to retarding the timing besides detonation?

[Racer x]

I don't know for sure. Maybe if someone was going for max efficiency instead of max power.

[Somchai]

Let me try to explain.
The trick is to ignite the gas mixture already so far ahead of the TDC that "its burning well" at TDC and already has built up the best (not the maximum!) pressure to speed up the piston.
If ignited too early, then the already rapidly increasing of gas pressure hindered pushing the piston still towards the cylinder head, the engine knocks! (ringing in contrast arises from spontaneous combustion!)

The mixture takes about 1 ... 2 ms until it burns so to achieve the optimum pressure (it is not completely burned yet!).
So you have to ignite 1ms before TDC!
Idling at 900 rpm corresponding to 360 degrees / 66ms = 5.5 degrees at 1ms, at 7200 rpm corresponding to 360 degrees / 8ms = 45 degrees at 1 ms. This states the known information about how to ignite!
In practice, then at idle we ignite at approx 0 degrees or even later with losing power there in favor of other benefits. Also, the ignition advance mostly in favor of some other parameters is limited to such as 40 degrees.
The advantage of retarded ignition is Emission caused and that's the main reason for doing it now.
At least there are many factors to look for like speed of flame, compression, compression chamber, type of piston and many more.

Previous models of Kawasaki had advanced ignition at 45 degrees (i.e. ZX400 – 12.5 degrees at 1.200 rpm and 45 degrees at 6.000 rpm).

Translation on the picture:
zu früh = to advanced
richtig = correct
zu spät = retarded

[redkid]

Thank you somchai, a great explaination indeed!

Can you please advise on the installation. I have install it myself but need to make sure i put it correctly (advance).
- which way is the flywheel spins? clockwise or counter clock wise?
- so i put the key further to the way it spins, is it correct?

[Somchai]

Originally Posted by redkid

Thank you somchai, a great explaination indeed!

Can you please advise on the installation. I have install it myself but need to make sure i put it correctly (advance).
- which way is the flywheel spins? clockwise or counter clock wise?
- so i put the key further to the way it spins, is it correct?

Hello Red,

your very welcome.

Look here, this is the way to go

[Mohawk]

So the 500 ignition advance is achieved by an offset woodruff key locating the genny ! That's a very simple thing, you can make one by hand. The key only ensures correct location of the genny rotor, it does not secure the rotor, the mend bolt does that. I can make one if I need more or less & I have a rotor puller already