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Old February 14th, 2020, 10:26 PM   #1
F9zSlavik
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Increase performence without removing the air box?

I have been doing a lot of reading and have come to 1 conclusion, removing the air box and replacing it with an air pod filter seems to be a bad idea. There is just too much information for me to process D:

I already have Yoshimura exhaust, k&n air pod filter, and Factory Pro jet kit.

It's been suggested I NOT remove the air box. I am not looking so much for mid-high rpm power but rather low-mid power increase. I like to keep this bike as a "do everything" bike and I am not looking to turn this into a race bike. I just like the bike to respond better.

Would it be better for me to simply keep the air box and just slap a K&N air filter? Could I still install a the factory pro jet kit and exhaust and get decent performance out of it? Or is it do all or do nothing?

I was going to take my bike to the shop tonight but decided I should wait since at the moment, it's my main motorcycle for going to work and back until I get my sv650 fixed.
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Old February 15th, 2020, 12:35 AM   #2
BoBO
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It depends on what stage your jet kit is. For example, I have a stage 2 dynojet kit so I keep my stock airbox and just have an aftermarket filter and slipon.

But for more power improvements I would just leave the bike as is until you get the 650 running again. The only power you are going to notice is when you start working on the engine internals such as: increasing compression or boring out the block to increase displacement in conjunction with carb tuning.

I wouldn't expect much from a 250 in terms of power. A good running 250 with a smooth idle is more rewarding. Adding aftermarket exhaust and jetting will definitely improve power but mostly on the top-end.
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Old February 15th, 2020, 07:41 AM   #3
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BoBO’s right on, most significant gains in power start from inside out with big-bore high-comp pistons. Along with bigger Mikuni carbs and hours of dyno-tuning to tie it all together. Nothing you can bolt on will make as big difference. Let me make analogy...

1. Bolt-on mods such as air filters, jet-kits and full exhaust with dyno-tuning will give you +5hp. You’ll notice difference for $2k. It’s like taking your gal to spa for pro hair and makeup job.

2. Engine build with big-bore high-comp pistons, bigger valves, port & polish (along with all above). For $4k you get +15hp. This is like giving your girl conplete face job with new eyes, ears, nose, lips and chin-tuck. Boob-job, liposuction, rib-removal and years of gym workouts with the best Olympic trainers. Before and after comparison is supermodel BAWOWZERS!!!


From number of times you’ve asked this question, you’ll really want Ninja 400. Almost twice power of your 250 and performance is BAWOWZERS better!

Let’s put this in direct street perspective. 34-yr old 250 does 0-60 in about 7s with 15.3s 1/4-mile. That means you can keep up with modern Corolla in drag race.

Ninja 400 does 0-60 in 4.6s and 1/4-mile in 13.1s @ +103mph. That’s keeping up with supercars like Corvette, Porsches, new Supra! Ninja 400 has 34-yrs of upgrades. Imagine what you can do to your 250 if you had 34-yrs and unlimited money to upgrade it!

If you drag-race your 250 against 400, you will fall behind from very beginning. They both weigh same, but 400 had close to twice as much power. By time you cross finish line 1/4-mile away, 400 will be more than entire football field ahead!

Best move for you in terms of least amount of time, effort and money is to sell your 250 and SV650 to buy Ninja 400. It’ll be lighter and faster than both and you’ll be extremely happy with it.

BTW, not just bikes, hock everything you’ve got to buy 400. TVs, cars, furniture, computers, fridge, wife & kids, break into parent’s retirement fund, etc. Ninja 400 is THAT good and worth it.
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Old February 15th, 2020, 08:34 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Let’s put this in direct street perspective. 34-yr old 250 does 0-60 in about 7s with 15.3s 1/4-mile. That means you can keep up with modern Corolla in drag race.

Ninja 400 does 0-60 in 4.6s and 1/4-mile in 13.1s @ +103mph. That’s keeping up with supercars like Corvette, Porsches, new Supra! Ninja 400 has 34-yrs of upgrades. Imagine what you can do to your 250 if you had 34-yrs and unlimited money to upgrade it!
Real talk... you're comparing "real" 0-60 time for the 250 and a Kawi-media time for the 400.

Apples to apples, the 250's media time was 5.75 seconds 0-60, but as a 130lb dude, the best I ever documented was 6.25 seconds. Digging deep in my memory, I seem to remember high 14's for the Kawi-media 1/4 mile time with the 250 but I never tested that in person. I'd bet the 400 also doesn't match it's kawi-media 0-60 time. Let's call it 4.8-5 seconds until we can be proved otherwise.

While we're at it, the new Supra (not a super car) does 60 in 3.9 seconds, per magazine testing with Vbox data. On top of that, the only Corvette your 400 might still see in a 0-60 run is a C5 or older, and those are just a tad older than your new 400 (and also not super cars).

Not bagging on the 400 here, they're a really good balance of the small bikes we all love and FINALLY getting the power the chassis deserves! But let's be real here... Fast cars are still much faster in a straight line until you start breaking the 3-digit hp threshold with your motorbike.


*all this from the guy with the hair dresser car that makes 110 at the wheels and does 0-60 in a hell-raising 7.8 seconds according to magazine articles of its day*
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Old February 15th, 2020, 08:59 AM   #5
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Ninja 400 numbers isn’t Kawi-supplied media-kit. Came from instrumented testing along with real-world dyno.
https://www.cycleworld.com/2019-yama...aki-ninja-400/

To really understand how much faster 400 is than 250, just compare their laptimes at Thunderhill track:
https://racehero.io/events/afm-thund...ts-afm/results

Legacy 250: 2:17, 2:18
400 Superbike: 1:55
400 Superstock: 1:57
Ninja Cup (300 & 400): 400=1:56
300WSS: R3=2:07
450SS (cripple 600s): R6=1:58
LightweightTwins: N400=1:55
MiddleweightTwins: SV650=1:57
LegacyHeavyweight: GSX-R750=1:56
750 Superstock: #3 R6=1:55
600 Superstock: #4 R6=1:56
600 Superbike: #4 R6=1:55
OpenGP: #6 R1=1:55
FormulaPacific: #8 S1000RR=1:54

Two remaining 250 racers are 120-125lb jockeys and they don’t stand a chance against Ninja 400. Which leaves them in dust of over 1/3-mile PER LAP (22-sec faster). It catches and laps them every 6 LAPS!

Ninja 400 is so light and fast, it would win outright in many of larger classes (comparable to R6). It’s faster than SV650 and GSX-R750. Can get top-10 against biggest bike classes!

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; February 15th, 2020 at 04:00 PM.
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Old February 15th, 2020, 03:25 PM   #6
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To answer original question:

- keep airbox
- install K&N filter
- install exhaust, for mid-range boost, you’ll want 2-1 exhaust.
- install jet-kit while dyno tuning

You’ll realize gains are anti-climatic. Hock everything and buy 400!
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Old February 15th, 2020, 07:13 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
You’ll realize gains are anti-climatic. Hock everything and buy 400!
^^^^ Seriously this.

I sold my pregen a couple years ago. If I were getting back into motorcycles right now, I'd buy a 400 without thinking twice about it.
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Old February 16th, 2020, 11:25 AM   #8
thunderkat59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Ninja 400 numbers isn’t Kawi-supplied media-kit. Came from instrumented testing along with real-world dyno.
https://www.cycleworld.com/2019-yama...aki-ninja-400/

To really understand how much faster 400 is than 250, just compare their laptimes at Thunderhill track:
https://racehero.io/events/afm-thund...ts-afm/results

Legacy 250: 2:17, 2:18
400 Superbike: 1:55
400 Superstock: 1:57
Ninja Cup (300 & 400): 400=1:56
300WSS: R3=2:07
450SS (cripple 600s): R6=1:58
LightweightTwins: N400=1:55
MiddleweightTwins: SV650=1:57
LegacyHeavyweight: GSX-R750=1:56
750 Superstock: #3 R6=1:55
600 Superstock: #4 R6=1:56
600 Superbike: #4 R6=1:55
OpenGP: #6 R1=1:55
FormulaPacific: #8 S1000RR=1:54

Two remaining 250 racers are 120-125lb jockeys and they don’t stand a chance against Ninja 400. Which leaves them in dust of over 1/3-mile PER LAP (22-sec faster). It catches and laps them every 6 LAPS!

Ninja 400 is so light and fast, it would win outright in many of larger classes (comparable to R6). It’s faster than SV650 and GSX-R750. Can get top-10 against biggest bike classes!
Im glad you put this here. Curves are the great equalizer. CCs dont mean a thing in the twisties

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Old February 16th, 2020, 01:02 PM   #9
DannoXYZ
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Originally Posted by thunderkat59 View Post
Im glad you put this here. Curves are the great equalizer. CCs dont mean a thing in the twisties

Yeah! And Thunderhill is BIG track with 10-sec front straight that favours big power bikes too! Ninja 400 goes flat-out around most corners and really only have to brake hard for 3 of 15 corners. Upgraded-to-max Ninja 250 will reach actual top-speed of 105mph and superbikes hit 180mph!

On tighter tracks like Laguna Seca and Sears Point Sonoma, Ninja 400 has even bigger advantage over all others!

https://www.motorcycle.com/features/...view-html.html
https://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-out...bikes-shootout
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