Won't start... :( HELP! - Page 2

deeno415 · July 3rd, 2013, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GREY NINJA

I had that same problem

So it was your starter then, that you had to replace? I suspect it was my starter from the beginning... but I want to make sure.

deeno415 · July 3rd, 2013, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PEN25

wiring. when you try to jump it does it even make the clicking sound? if not its possible your starter solenoid is bad. if you hit it with the jumper cables and it does nothing its you starter

Quote:

Originally Posted by GREY NINJA

I had that same problem

Quote:

Originally Posted by tc.young

one click might mean the connection between the main wires and the battery are not getting enough contact. try loosening it, wiggling it and tightening the cables to the battery.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asspire

headlight will come on when engine is turned over. Start with checking starter relay.

So I did a few tests today...

1) I checked the voltage on the battery (read 12.8v)
2) checked all the fuses with a test light (all were good)
3) I jumped the connection posts on starter solenoid (got crank)
4) jumped from positive of battery to starter (starter cranked)
5) I opened up and checked start button/kill switch (all clean & ok/but if that didn't work, I wouldn't get the 'click', right?)
6) checked all wiring and connections (all clean and have tight connections)

I tried to check for continuity from solenoid to starter but got NOTHING! (after trying several times pressing the start button)

Shouldn't I be able to get a reading from the starter???

Does this mean my solenoid is bad??? What am I doing/or not doing correctly to isolate what my problem is????

Asspire · July 3rd, 2013, 09:02 PM

is there power on the yellow/red wire at starter relay when starter button is pressed?

deeno415 · July 3rd, 2013, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asspire

is there power on the yellow/red wire at starter relay when starter button is pressed?

If I press the start button, there should be power coming from the 'M' side post (left post), right???

I didn't get any power...

GREY NINJA · July 4th, 2013, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deeno415

So it was your starter then, that you had to replace? I suspect it was my starter from the beginning... but I want to make sure.

Yea but my starter would not crank after all those tests. You said your starter crank so it's not the starter. Either you missed checking a wire or this is a hocus Pocus

DaBlue1 · July 4th, 2013, 08:45 AM

If you do not hear a faint clicking noise when pushing the starter button, the relay is defective.
Use the 1 ohm setting on a voltmeter and measure the resistance across the terminals of the starter relay
If the relay makes multiple clicks and the meter does not read zero, the relay is defective.
If the relay clicks one time and the meter does not read zero, the relay is good. The trouble is in the starter motor or the motor power supply wires.

GREY NINJA · July 4th, 2013, 09:37 AM

So I did a few tests today...

1) I checked the voltage on the battery (read 12.8v)
2) checked all the fuses with a test light (all were good)
3) I jumped the connection posts on starter solenoid (got crank)
4) jumped from positive of battery to starter (starter cranked)
5) I opened up and checked start button/kill switch (all clean & ok/but if that didn't work, I wouldn't get the 'click', right?)
6) checked all wiring and connections (all clean and have tight connections)

deeno415 · July 4th, 2013, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GREY NINJA

Yea but my starter would not crank after all those tests. You said your starter crank so it's not the starter. Either you missed checking a wire or this is a hocus Pocus

My starter cranked when I hooked up a jumper directly from the positive of the battery to the connector post on the starter...

Where I'm not getting power (completing the full cycle) is at the starter solenoid to the starter...

Is the single click that I'm hearing from something else near the solenoid??? Because I thought the click was coming from the relay switch trying to connect, but I'm not getting a reading with test light from the left side post of the starter solenoid/relay and the wire connection at the starter connector bolt (while depressing the start button).

baxtc1 · July 4th, 2013, 01:12 PM

I am not sure without going out and checking, but isn't the left post from battery, before relay? If so, check your battery lead and connections.

n4mwd · July 4th, 2013, 01:35 PM

Deeno415,

There are two relays in the Ninja 250 starter circuit. The first is a smaller one that is linked to the safety switches that force you to have it in neutral. The larger one is the starter solenoid.

The starter solenoid has a 30Amp fuse in it so you should check that to make sure its still good. As a test, turn the ignition on and use a wire to short the two electrical nuts on the starter solenoid. This should cause the starter to turn the engine over. If it doesn't, its not the solenoid.

But based on what you are saying, it sounds like your starter solenoid is bad or somehow disconnected. The smaller click is probably your neutral safety switch relay.

I don't think your battery is bad. Read my blog on batteries here. Most of them these days are AGM which is highly tolerant to being drained to nothing (but don't make a habit of it). It just needs a good charge with 0.5 to 1 amp charger.

If you have been jumping it with cars that are running, you'll need to buy a new voltage regulator or else it wont charge right. (Jumping with a running car burns it out.)

The bottom line is that you need to trace it back and find out when the disconnect is. Don't get discouraged because the Ninja 250 is one of the finest bikes ever made. But it has a low tolerance for abuse (i.e. - cranking till it clicks). Also, since you bought it used and have no maintenance records, you should assume that none were done and plan on doing your valves and changing the oil ASAP. If you do your own valves, be sure to read this first. Have fun.

deeno415 · July 4th, 2013, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baxtc1

I am not sure without going out and checking, but isn't the left post from battery, before relay? If so, check your battery lead and connections.

If I'm looking at the starter solenoid from the right side of the bike, the left post is marked with an 'M'

Quote:

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Deeno415,

There are two relays in the Ninja 250 starter circuit. The first is a smaller one that is linked to the safety switches that force you to have it in neutral. The larger one is the starter solenoid.

The starter solenoid has a 30Amp fuse in it so you should check that to make sure its still good. As a test, turn the ignition on and use a wire to short the two electrical nuts on the starter solenoid. This should cause the starter to turn the engine over. If it doesn't, its not the solenoid.

But based on what you are saying, it sounds like your starter solenoid is bad or somehow disconnected. The smaller click is probably your neutral safety switch relay.

I don't think your battery is bad. Read my blog on batteries here. Most of them these days are AGM which is highly tolerant to being drained to nothing (but don't make a habit of it). It just needs a good charge with 0.5 to 1 amp charger.

If you have been jumping it with cars that are running, you'll need to buy a new voltage regulator or else it wont charge right. (Jumping with a running car burns it out.)

The bottom line is that you need to trace it back and find out when the disconnect is. Don't get discouraged because the Ninja 250 is one of the finest bikes ever made. But it has a low tolerance for abuse (i.e. - cranking till it clicks). Also, since you bought it used and have no maintenance records, you should assume that none were done and plan on doing your valves and changing the oil ASAP. If you do your own valves, be sure to read this first. Have fun.

The 'click' I'm hearing is a faint click that's coming from the starter solenoid (or somewhere close to it)... I've checked the 30amp fuse and it is fine. And I have also jumped the terminal posts on the starter solenoid and was able to get the bike started (not really sure if the eliminates the starter solenoid as being the problem because all that really does is bypass the electromagnet inside the solenoid that is suppose to complete the cycle, right?) I'm not a electrician or a genius but isn't that how it works?

I did change the oil and oil filter... a couple mechanics advised that the valves were ok.

I have tried jumping the bike with a car battery (with car OFF) and had no success in starting the bike.

I'm now stumped! I've checked all the cables/wiring and connections.... not sure why I'm not getting any power reading after the solenoid to the starter.

I really want to figure this out and get the bike going... don't feel like bump/push starting the bike every time I want to ride.

n4mwd · July 4th, 2013, 07:50 PM

It sounds like there is an issue with the solenoid.

Here is what we are talking about:

If jumping the two nuts failed to crank the engine, then it would suggest other problems and not the solenoid. But since it did crank, we have to test the solenoid directly.

To test the solenoid, you need to power it directly and see if it cranks the engine. To do that, look at the picture above. Notice that its backwards from how you would normally look at it (sorry bout that) so don't get it mixed up.

There are two rows of two spade connectors. The row that is closest to the fuse are both hot from the battery through the 30 amp fuse. The two terminals closest to the nuts are the relay coil terminals. To fire the solenoid and crank the engine, use a screwdriver to short one of the rear terminals to one of the front terminals, then touch a small jumper wire with ground to the other rear terminal. The solenoid should click and the starter should turn.

Be sure not to touch the ground wire to either of the front two terminals (closest to the fuse) because that would be a direct short and blow your fuse.

If the above doesn't cause the starter to crank, then its time for a new solenoid.

DaBlue1 · July 4th, 2013, 07:54 PM

Your issue sounds strangely similar to this one. http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...=starter+relay

deeno415 · July 4th, 2013, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baxtc1

I am not sure without going out and checking, but isn't the left post from battery, before relay? If so, check your battery lead and connections.

If I'm looking at the starter solenoid from the right side of the bike, the left post is marked with an 'M'. The connection from my solenoid (on left, from M goes to the starter connector bolt).

deeno415 · July 4th, 2013, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n4mwd

It sounds like there is an issue with the solenoid.

Here is what we are talking about:

If jumping the two nuts failed to crank the engine, then it would suggest other problems and not the solenoid. But since it did crank, we have to test the solenoid directly.

To test the solenoid, you need to power it directly and see if it cranks the engine. To do that, look at the picture above. Notice that its backwards from how you would normally look at it (sorry bout that) so don't get it mixed up.

There are two rows of two spade connectors. The row that is closest to the fuse are both hot from the battery through the 30 amp fuse. The two terminals closest to the nuts are the relay coil terminals. To fire the solenoid and crank the engine, use a screwdriver to short one of the rear terminals to one of the front terminals, then touch a small jumper wire with ground to the other rear terminal. The solenoid should click and the starter should turn.

Be sure not to touch the ground wire to either of the front two terminals (closest to the fuse) because that would be a direct short and blow your fuse.

If the above doesn't cause the starter to crank, then its time for a new solenoid.

Okay, I'm gonna try to test the solenoid this way and try not to get confused... (the picture you sent looks close to what I've been testing except the 'M' & 'B' markings are the other way around on mine. I realize I'm looking at the picture backwards, but that is how my relay looks with the markings switched the other way. 'M' on the left w/fuse in front...)

So, from one of the rear terminals (let's say left one closest to fuse) I short it with screwdriver to front left terminal. Then I take a jumper ground wire and touch the right, front terminal (away from fuse) to see if I can get the solenoid to engage and the starter to crank???

deeno415 · July 4th, 2013, 09:10 PM

So I went to do the solenoid test... (here is what happened):

I accidentally touched a hot terminal with the ground jumper causing the 30amp fuse to blow (my hands weren't as steady as I would of liked them to be)...

So I replaced the main fuse, tried to test solenoid again... BUTTERFINGERS! Blew another fuse! So I replaced to fuse AGAIN, did the test (with even more caution now) and I get crank... YAY!

I try to start it the normal way, and VOILA... it works!

I swear I checked the 30amp main fuse numerous times!

Anyways, thanks for all your guys help! I'm gonna go riding while there is still some sun out here in SF!!!

n4mwd · July 5th, 2013, 05:20 AM

I don't think your original 30A fuse was bad. That is the master fuse. Everything goes through that. So if it was blown, there would be no lights and no bump starting.

So it would seem that your problem is an intermittent electrical problem.

To do the test again, I suggest buying a crimp-on female spade terminal. That way you can have your wire ready to go and put it on before you connect it to ground. Thus, no possibility of a short (unless you connect it to the front spades closest to the fuse).

PEN25 · July 8th, 2013, 09:11 AM

sometimes those relays get a weak voltage which doesnt cause it to trip. we have the same issue on the suzuki samurai and sidekicks do to a high resistance in the clutch switch or wire that has high resistance. fix on that is to run a new wire with relay direct battery voltage. if it keeps happening time to start chekcing each wire to make sure one doesnt have any high resistance causing a voltage drop.

peterpayne · August 31st, 2013, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deeno415

So I went to do the solenoid test... (here is what happened):

I accidentally touched a hot terminal with the ground jumper causing the 30amp fuse to blow (my hands weren't as steady as I would of liked them to be)...

So I replaced the main fuse, tried to test solenoid again... BUTTERFINGERS! Blew another fuse! So I replaced to fuse AGAIN, did the test (with even more caution now) and I get crank... YAY!

I try to start it the normal way, and VOILA... it works!

I swear I checked the 30amp main fuse numerous times!

Anyways, thanks for all your guys help! I'm gonna go riding while there is still some sun out here in SF!!!

So, problem has not returned?

deeno415 · August 31st, 2013, 05:53 PM

I haven't had an issue since...

Just one of those weird instances!

July 4th, 2013, 01:35 PM	#50
n4mwd ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: D Location: Palm Beach, FL Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 1	Deeno415, There are two relays in the Ninja 250 starter circuit. The first is a smaller one that is linked to the safety switches that force you to have it in neutral. The larger one is the starter solenoid. The starter solenoid has a 30Amp fuse in it so you should check that to make sure its still good. As a test, turn the ignition on and use a wire to short the two electrical nuts on the starter solenoid. This should cause the starter to turn the engine over. If it doesn't, its not the solenoid. But based on what you are saying, it sounds like your starter solenoid is bad or somehow disconnected. The smaller click is probably your neutral safety switch relay. I don't think your battery is bad. Read my blog on batteries here. Most of them these days are AGM which is highly tolerant to being drained to nothing (but don't make a habit of it). It just needs a good charge with 0.5 to 1 amp charger. If you have been jumping it with cars that are running, you'll need to buy a new voltage regulator or else it wont charge right. (Jumping with a running car burns it out.) The bottom line is that you need to trace it back and find out when the disconnect is. Don't get discouraged because the Ninja 250 is one of the finest bikes ever made. But it has a low tolerance for abuse (i.e. - cranking till it clicks). Also, since you bought it used and have no maintenance records, you should assume that none were done and plan on doing your valves and changing the oil ASAP. If you do your own valves, be sure to read this first. Have fun. __________________________________________________ My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED!
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

July 4th, 2013, 07:50 PM	#52
n4mwd ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: D Location: Palm Beach, FL Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 1	It sounds like there is an issue with the solenoid. Here is what we are talking about: If jumping the two nuts failed to crank the engine, then it would suggest other problems and not the solenoid. But since it did crank, we have to test the solenoid directly. To test the solenoid, you need to power it directly and see if it cranks the engine. To do that, look at the picture above. Notice that its backwards from how you would normally look at it (sorry bout that) so don't get it mixed up. There are two rows of two spade connectors. The row that is closest to the fuse are both hot from the battery through the 30 amp fuse. The two terminals closest to the nuts are the relay coil terminals. To fire the solenoid and crank the engine, use a screwdriver to short one of the rear terminals to one of the front terminals, then touch a small jumper wire with ground to the other rear terminal. The solenoid should click and the starter should turn. Be sure not to touch the ground wire to either of the front two terminals (closest to the fuse) because that would be a direct short and blow your fuse. If the above doesn't cause the starter to crank, then its time for a new solenoid. __________________________________________________ My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED!

July 5th, 2013, 05:20 AM	#57
n4mwd ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: D Location: Palm Beach, FL Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 1	I don't think your original 30A fuse was bad. That is the master fuse. Everything goes through that. So if it was blown, there would be no lights and no bump starting. So it would seem that your problem is an intermittent electrical problem. To do the test again, I suggest buying a crimp-on female spade terminal. That way you can have your wire ready to go and put it on before you connect it to ground. Thus, no possibility of a short (unless you connect it to the front spades closest to the fuse). __________________________________________________ My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED!
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

August 31st, 2013, 05:53 PM	#60
deeno415 ninjette.org guru Name: Dino Location: San Francisco, CA Join Date: Jun 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Kawasaki EX250(Bright Yellow) Posts: 441	I haven't had an issue since... Just one of those weird instances! __________________________________________________ Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle. *Sorry, I don't speak Spanish... I'm Filipino!*

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July 3rd, 2013, 09:02 PM	#43
Asspire Fix It Till Ya Break It Name: Asspyre Location: T.Dot Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 08 250RRrrrr Posts: 623	is there power on the yellow/red wire at starter relay when starter button is pressed?

July 4th, 2013, 08:45 AM	#46
DaBlue1 Long Time Rider Name: Blue Location: Charlotte, NC Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.	If you do not hear a faint clicking noise when pushing the starter button, the relay is defective. Use the 1 ohm setting on a voltmeter and measure the resistance across the terminals of the starter relay If the relay makes multiple clicks and the meter does not read zero, the relay is defective. If the relay clicks one time and the meter does not read zero, the relay is good. The trouble is in the starter motor or the motor power supply wires.

July 4th, 2013, 09:37 AM	#47
GREY NINJA ninjette.org member Name: ninja Location: LAND OF OZ Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2002 ninja 250 Posts: 100	So I did a few tests today... 1) I checked the voltage on the battery (read 12.8v) 2) checked all the fuses with a test light (all were good) 3) I jumped the connection posts on starter solenoid (got crank) 4) jumped from positive of battery to starter (starter cranked) 5) I opened up and checked start button/kill switch (all clean & ok/but if that didn't work, I wouldn't get the 'click', right?) 6) checked all wiring and connections (all clean and have tight connections)

July 4th, 2013, 01:12 PM	#49
baxtc1 ninjette.org member Name: Robert Location: South of you blokes. Join Date: May 2013 Motorcycle(s): '92 GPX 250 (Gone and replaced with '08 V-Strom), 2005 Suzuki C50. Posts: 186	I am not sure without going out and checking, but isn't the left post from battery, before relay? If so, check your battery lead and connections.

July 4th, 2013, 07:54 PM	#53
DaBlue1 Long Time Rider Name: Blue Location: Charlotte, NC Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.	Your issue sounds strangely similar to this one. http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...=starter+relay

July 4th, 2013, 09:10 PM	#56
deeno415 ninjette.org guru Name: Dino Location: San Francisco, CA Join Date: Jun 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Kawasaki EX250(Bright Yellow) Posts: 441	So I went to do the solenoid test... (here is what happened): I accidentally touched a hot terminal with the ground jumper causing the 30amp fuse to blow (my hands weren't as steady as I would of liked them to be)... So I replaced the main fuse, tried to test solenoid again... BUTTERFINGERS! Blew another fuse! So I replaced to fuse AGAIN, did the test (with even more caution now) and I get crank... YAY! I try to start it the normal way, and VOILA... it works! I swear I checked the 30amp main fuse numerous times! Anyways, thanks for all your guys help! I'm gonna go riding while there is still some sun out here in SF!!!

July 8th, 2013, 09:11 AM	#58
PEN25 ninjette.org member Name: phil Location: tulsa Join Date: Jun 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2001 ex250 Posts: 15	sometimes those relays get a weak voltage which doesnt cause it to trip. we have the same issue on the suzuki samurai and sidekicks do to a high resistance in the clutch switch or wire that has high resistance. fix on that is to run a new wire with relay direct battery voltage. if it keeps happening time to start chekcing each wire to make sure one doesnt have any high resistance causing a voltage drop.