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Old October 17th, 2019, 03:09 PM   #1
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Go fast goodies

I placed an order with Norton Motorsports for a Graves full exhaust system, a set of velocity stacks and an ECU flash, along with stiffer clutch springs and a few other clutch related parts to improve the sloppy oem clutch. Still a few things on the list clutch wise but I ran out of $$$.
Stripped the bike down yesterday in preparation for the new parts.
I should net about 7 hp over stock with the improvements.
Got my ecu boxed up and ready to ship out tomorrow.
Will update with pics after the install. And a picture of my helper, Luna.
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Old October 17th, 2019, 09:03 PM   #2
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Awesome! Now you're knocking on door of 60bhp along with weight-savings from lighter exhaust. Should really pep up that Ninja!
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Old October 18th, 2019, 06:23 AM   #3
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so exactly what did the additional 7HP cost you in terms of $$ ?
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Old October 18th, 2019, 03:30 PM   #4
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You donít want to know.
$805 for Graves full system.
300 for velocity stacks
295 for ecu flash.
I did get a $100 discount, so about 1,300 total.

It should net about 53 hp. They have tuned a 400 to 62hp or race fuel. I bet the 400 is a beast at 60hp.
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Old October 18th, 2019, 05:18 PM   #5
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I did the cheap slipon for now, for more sound and foot room. I'm planning to get Norton's ECU flash sometime, and probably my own copy of FlashTune so I can play with it more (I did some EEPROM burning for the Syclone a number of years ago). I'd like to get some stiffer clutch springs too at least. I'm used to the upgraded springs in the 500, and I've noticed a bit of slipping on the 400 (pretty sure it's weak springs, not me accidentally pulling the really light lever while covering).
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Old October 19th, 2019, 02:15 AM   #6
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I did the cheap slipon for now, for more sound and foot room. I'm planning to get Norton's ECU flash sometime, and probably my own copy of FlashTune so I can play with it more (I did some EEPROM burning for the Syclone a number of years ago). I'd like to get some stiffer clutch springs too at least. I'm used to the upgraded springs in the 500, and I've noticed a bit of slipping on the 400 (pretty sure it's weak springs, not me accidentally pulling the really light lever while covering).
The 400 clutch is sloppy to say the least. Mine will slip in 5th gear wide open throttle.
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Old October 19th, 2019, 06:53 AM   #7
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Eh, that's not a bad price for reliable power.

I used to think bikes were expensive... then I got into cars. Now I'm wishing I was willing to ride a bike again
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Old October 19th, 2019, 02:00 PM   #8
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Scored a gsxr rear shock for $20 shipped. 2016 donor bike. Going to install a set of preload adjusters this winter. Turns out the stock fork springs are almost perfect for my weight.
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Old October 19th, 2019, 03:22 PM   #9
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What’s wrong with OEM 400 shock?
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Old October 19th, 2019, 04:32 PM   #10
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Nothing major. Just a budget based part. I can fit a gsxr shock and have rebound and damping adjustment. Same popular mod that the 250ís used to do. Makes a pretty good difference.
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Old October 19th, 2019, 05:00 PM   #11
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Nice mods!
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Old October 21st, 2019, 10:35 AM   #12
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If I still rode motorcycles on the street I’d probably step up to a 400... mine is a pit bike now though
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Old October 22nd, 2019, 09:41 AM   #13
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Exhaust came in today. Checked the tracking on my ecu and it was delivered yesterday so maybe Iíll get that coming back early next week.
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Old October 23rd, 2019, 11:04 AM   #14
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so i don't know what happened, but i have been on a spending spree for the 400.
my boss had me go through our factory Ford tooling a few weeks ago. he said toss whatever we will not use at our dealership. so i loaded up three trunk fulls of factory tooling, and sold them to an online vendor. so i guess easy money goes fast. hence the motorcycle parts.... i bought an Annitori quickshifter, some tank pads to keep from scratching my dang tank. a fender eliminator bracket, and a new pair of Alpinestars track gloves. my dog chewed my past pair up a couple years ago and i just could never make myself buy a new pair.

i was still able to buy my wife some jewelry she wanted to keep her off my back about bike parts, and i bought the parts needed to rebuild my trucks transmission.


i know i don't need a quickshifter, but i just wanted it. lol since when is any motorcycle part a NEEDED item?
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Old October 23rd, 2019, 01:26 PM   #15
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So ah... I've been looking at this Ferrari.... I think your boss may not need it at dealership, but I can certainly use it!!!
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Old October 23rd, 2019, 03:34 PM   #16
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As long as he says throw it away you can have it!! Maybe you should pick a Ford. And while your at it, how about a service truck? Since we are only a commercial dealer we only sale and service F-250 through F-750. And those dreaded Transit vans.
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Old October 25th, 2019, 04:34 AM   #17
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As long as he says throw it away you can have it!! Maybe you should pick a Ford. And while your at it, how about a service truck? Since we are only a commercial dealer we only sale and service F-250 through F-750. And those dreaded Transit vans.
Legitimately there's a few dudes in eastern TN and western NC who have a solid side gig buying used work trucks from the NC DOT and TN DOT, fix them up a little because they're always beat on pretty good, and then sell them to who ever needs a truck.

It's a win-win. Guy selling trucks makes easy money, guy buying truck gets a really solid <$3000 F250 with lots of life left in it. The only downside is you can't be picky about the color or options. They're all school bus yellow base model work trucks.
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Old October 25th, 2019, 01:02 PM   #18
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Legitimately there's a few dudes in eastern TN and western NC who have a solid side gig buying used work trucks from the NC DOT and TN DOT, fix them up a little because they're always beat on pretty good, and then sell them to who ever needs a truck.

It's a win-win. Guy selling trucks makes easy money, guy buying truck gets a really solid <$3000 F250 with lots of life left in it. The only downside is you can't be picky about the color or options. They're all school bus yellow base model work trucks.
if you get picky about a color buy a new rig
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Old October 26th, 2019, 06:09 AM   #19
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Pics of the Graves exhaust, installed the Quickshifter this morning. Will wait until the ecu is back and the bike is assembled before finishing setup and wire tucking. My shock came in. Wonít get around to that until the weather cools down enough for me to not feel like riding. According to a fellow 400 owner you can flip the top mount upside down and it raises the bike about 10mm. The shock itself lowers the bike, just like when fitting to the 250/300. In that case on my 250 I bought different length links to raise it an inch higher that stock in the rear.
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Old November 4th, 2019, 04:58 PM   #20
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Tonightís work is sponsored by Coors Banquet

Installed the Corsa windscreen, and the eBay knockoff rear seat cowl. I went with the faux carbon fiber because I was worried the red wouldnít match my bike.
Reinstalled my flashed ecu, installed an R6 throttle tune with new Renthal grips.

will continue tomorrow with removing the clutch cover and replacing the clutch springs and clutch pull rod with upgraded components.
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Old November 7th, 2019, 06:07 AM   #21
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i got the bike put back together last night. still waiting on the fender eliminator bracket, so no tag or rear turn signals. and at 50 degrees it was a little cool in a t shirt.

the power improvement is simply amazing!!! with the stiffer clutch springs, and cable mod to keep slack out of the cable, the ecu flash, velocity stacks and exhaust this bike wants to RUN!! instant throttle response, noticeable power increase. cant wait to take it out Sunday for a good ride, i am very please with the results


the quick shifter was acting up, i could not program it, sent an email to Annitori and within minutes i was sending emails back and forth with tech support, who advised me updating my phone, he said the level i am at causes issues with the shifter app. so i am updating now and will try to get out for a ride after work to adjust the shifter.
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Old November 17th, 2019, 05:58 PM   #22
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I have a 2018 blue N400, that I have been riding at the track this whole season. Awesome track tool! Here is what I have done:

Full Delkevic exhaust
After market air filter
Custom dyno tune
R6 throttle mod
Steel braided lines front and rear
Spears clutch spring, and heavy duty clutch springs
Race tech .90 springs, heavier weight fork oil
Pre load adjusters
GSXR rear shock ( to be installed )
Vortex clip ons
Anodizing Rear sets
Lithium ion battery ( weight savings )
Michelin Power RS tires front and rear

The bike handles awesome. I have even done 2 races on it against other bikes in its class. The 400s are taking over on the track, I see more and more of them at each track day.
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Old November 17th, 2019, 09:15 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by JFMNINJA400 View Post
I have a 2018 blue N400, that I have been riding at the track this whole season. Awesome track tool! Here is what I have done:

Full Delkevic exhaust
After market air filter
Custom dyno tune
R6 throttle mod
Steel braided lines front and rear
Spears clutch spring, and heavy duty clutch springs
Race tech .90 springs, heavier weight fork oil
Pre load adjusters
GSXR rear shock ( to be installed )
Vortex clip ons
Anodizing Rear sets
Lithium ion battery ( weight savings )
Michelin Power RS tires front and rear

The bike handles awesome. I have even done 2 races on it against other bikes in its class. The 400s are taking over on the track, I see more and more of them at each track day.

That's pretty nice bike! You happen to have dyno-chart with AFR? Any idea what software they used to tune it? Thx
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Old November 17th, 2019, 11:20 PM   #24
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That's pretty nice bike! You happen to have dyno-chart with AFR? Any idea what software they used to tune it? Thx
Unfortunately my dyno tuner wasnít able to print out the dyno results at the time. He ordered a harness to hook up to the ECU and was able to do a custome dyno tune. The bike was spitting out blue flames before the dyno tune. After the tune the bike was running smooth and strong and no popping or blue flames. That was early feb of this year. I am able to power wheelie in 1st gear!

Thanks!
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Old November 18th, 2019, 12:09 AM   #25
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Do you know if he edited fuel & ignition maps tables (like Excel spreadsheet), or if he just dumped full-maps to ECU? From what I can gather, 400 in factory trim is set up similarly to 300 & 250 with lean mid-range and super-rich high-end. Even with full-exhaust and intake, tuners are having to remove fuel from high-end.
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Old November 18th, 2019, 09:32 AM   #26
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in my case of having a tune loaded via flash tune, i have no idea what was done fuel adjustment wise, but i can say my bike runs very well compared to stock. my fuel mileage has dropped to the mid 40's though.

went for a ride yesterday with a fellow forum member at a 400 forum, and swapped bikes for a mile or two for him to feel the differences, he seemed pretty impressed with the power output vs his stock bike. he didn't run it very hard, and likely didn't hit peak rpm range.
i have some ebay rear-sets ordered, and a set of woodcraft clip ons. and i swear i'm done buying parts for this bike!!!!
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Old November 18th, 2019, 06:50 PM   #27
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Do you know if he edited fuel & ignition maps tables (like Excel spreadsheet), or if he just dumped full-maps to ECU? From what I can gather, 400 in factory trim is set up similarly to 300 & 250 with lean mid-range and super-rich high-end. Even with full-exhaust and intake, tuners are having to remove fuel from high-end.
I will ask when I see him this week. He is currently dyno tuning my 750. He has dyno tuned all my bikes and I have recommended many guys to have their bikes dynoed there. I have been going to this shop for over 15 years! High Velocity Motorsports, just outside of Newburgh New York.

I will probably bring him my N250 to dial in the carbs.
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Old November 21st, 2019, 07:33 PM   #28
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Do you know if he edited fuel & ignition maps tables (like Excel spreadsheet), or if he just dumped full-maps to ECU? From what I can gather, 400 in factory trim is set up similarly to 300 & 250 with lean mid-range and super-rich high-end. Even with full-exhaust and intake, tuners are having to remove fuel from high-end.
Spoke to my dyno tuner today and he said he edited the fuel and ignition maps on the 400. He said thatís how he does it. Waiting for him to finish my 750 so I can bring him the 250 so he can jet the carbs.
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Old November 26th, 2019, 05:09 PM   #29
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How do you like the velocity stacks?
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Old December 5th, 2019, 04:56 PM   #30
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How do you like the velocity stacks?
I ant speak for the stacks by them selves as I did the exhaust, ecu flash and stacks at once. But I can say the difference is night and day for the entire performance package. The bike wheelies first gear with a quick twist of the throttle.
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Old December 5th, 2019, 05:08 PM   #31
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I bought a set of camshafts from Norton Motorsports, well I actually havenít yet as the intake cam is not going to be listed for sale until next week.
Iíll be keeping my OEM cams, I try not to modify anything that canít be swapped back to stock if I can help it

Fuel tuning will be adjusting using a piggyback system with auto tune. Leaning to the Bazzaz but not set in stone. May go with PCV.

Judging by the specs provided by Norton Motorsports I should net about 5 hp on the top end.
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Old December 26th, 2019, 08:43 AM   #32
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cams are ground, now waiting for them to ship out. also ordered a thin (0.10) head gasket to bump the compression while i am torn down swapping cams. went with a bazzaz fuel controller, still need to buy the auto tuner box and a shim kit and i'll be ready for the actual work.
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Old December 26th, 2019, 10:31 AM   #33
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Sounds like a fun project. A labor of love.
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Old December 26th, 2019, 03:34 PM   #34
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Why not just re-program factory ECU like tuner-shop did? Much more precise than piggyback.
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Old December 26th, 2019, 07:06 PM   #35
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Why not just re-program factory ECU like tuner-shop did? Much more precise than piggyback.
The ecu has been flashed to eliminate the emissions and tune for the velocity stacks, and exhaust system I have. But once the cams are installed Iíll have to reflash or run a piggyback to fine tune further. The closest shop with a good reputation for flash tuning is over a hundred miles one way. Just not practical in my area.
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Old December 26th, 2019, 09:39 PM   #36
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Software to re-program individual cells in maps is just $400 or so. Then you have unlimited adjustments by changing factory ECU maps. Rather than skewing sensor signals to trick factory ECU. This becomes a problem when you're on edge of map, such as at idle or high-load/RPMs. Then there's no more room to skew signal before you're up against wall of map.

https://www.woolichracing.com/produc...-flashing.aspx

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Old December 27th, 2019, 03:36 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Software to re-program individual cells in maps is just $400 or so. Then you have unlimited adjustments by changing factory ECU maps. Rather than skewing sensor signals to trick factory ECU. This becomes a problem when you're on edge of map, such as at idle or high-load/RPMs. Then there's no more room to skew signal before you're up against wall of map.

https://www.woolichracing.com/produc...-flashing.aspx
In order to have the O2 sensor it would cost be over $700. I donít have access to a dyno within 100 miles that I would trust.
Without having the ability to read the A/F mixture Iíd be guessing on tuning

It sounds like you live in a highly populated area, which likely increases your access to quality tuners nearby.

Iíd have better luck ďtuningĒ a hunting dog than a motorcycle around here.
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Old December 27th, 2019, 01:28 PM   #38
DannoXYZ
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Originally Posted by gantt View Post
In order to have the O2 sensor it would cost be over $700. I don’t have access to a dyno within 100 miles that I would trust.
Without having the ability to read the A/F mixture I’d be guessing on tuning

It sounds like you live in a highly populated area, which likely increases your access to quality tuners nearby.

I’d have better luck “tuning” a hunting dog than a motorcycle around here.
How does lack of O2 change tuning by piggyback? You still have zero idea which way to adjust without AFR data using piggyback OR reprogramming ECU tables. AEM wideband is less than $200. Even better is TechEdge wideband with on-board digital datalogging for about $150 (no laptop needed). More precise and safer too because you're not staring at tiny AFR gauge while going down road at WOT in top gear.

One of main issues with piggybacks and skewing input signals is you can't adjust fuel and ignition separately. Any adjustments made changes fuel AND ignition simultaneously because it shifts look-up point on all tables.



I started out with PC-III then PC-V with ignition-module on my CBR600RR over 15-yrs ago. Then tried Bazzaz for a year before going with fully programmmable ECU. It's much, much better having as few layers as possible and being able to program underlying ECU maps directly.

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; December 27th, 2019 at 02:53 PM.
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Old January 30th, 2020, 08:35 AM   #39
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the auto tune is here, got an email saying the cams and head gasket shipped yesterday. i bought an antique tractor a f few weeks ago, and it is taking all my spare time to get it restored and ready to use before spring. the cams are taking a back burner for a few weeks, hoping to be able to tear the bike down around March.
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Old January 30th, 2020, 07:27 PM   #40
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Let’s see pics of this tractor!
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