636 vs 09+ zx6r...

[RedOctober]

I'm doing a bit of searching for the 250 upgrade (keeping the 250 though), and was wondering about the 636. I found this little gem for sale locally:
http://austin.craigslist.org/mcy/2812209905.html
Nice low price but I've never bought a used bike before so I'm a bit concerned why this 7 year old bike has 5k miles on it and what the little gotchas it could have...

But overall, I'm trying to figure out how good a 636 really was. Compared to 07-08 zx6r it apparently has more power but less handling (what does that mean?) but 07-08 sucked from what I can tell by the reviews. Unfortunately dealers around here don't offer testdrives...

The 09+ zx6r is supposed to be a beast, and in fact there's also one for sale for $6500 here. So can anyone offer any insight into 636?
THanks.

[choneofakind]

a 636 is a larger engine (brief history). Still in the 600cc class, but it's slightly larger. This gives it more power from a little more displacement.

Of course with the newer bike following a generation that people really didn't like, Kawasaki really focused on handling, so the new bike is going to be amazing in the handling department.

My friend with the purple CBR600F3 that I took care of last summer says that the 2009 ZX6R he rode in Cali had insane top end, but not much down low compared to his '97 F3. He also said that the handling was amazing, and well dampened.

FWIW, both the 636 and the current 6R are both supersports. They're both going to handle like champs in the twisties.


@Kevin2109 might be able to give you some hints on stuff to look for on 636's

*edit*
my experience with buying a used bike has been good. I did a little research ahead of time to know what to look for on a ninja 250 specifically, and asked someone with tons of riding experience what to look for on a used motorcycle in general
*/edit*

[RedOctober]

Thank you, it's hard to figure out what people mean by "much crisper handling"...it's all relative.
The other thing (pricetag not being the deciding factor) that I'm now wondering just by reading the boards is the undertail exhaust. From a cosmetic POV I love it, but apparently there is this "overheat your ass" problem some people keep mentioning, and I live in Texas, we're known for our 100F+ 6 month long summers. None of my other club buddies are complaining about theirs, though, but it could be a different design.

[choneofakind]

Exactly. All relative. The only way you'll know which you prefer is to test ride. Or just get the one you like better, and set it up to work for you.

Yeah that issue I don't know anything about. But I do know that 600's push a lot more heat up at your chest and head than a 250, so you might not even notice your ass heating up from an undertail exhaust

[Xoulrath]

I have no problems with my '08 ZX. I have never ridden a 636, so I can't really compare them. I can tell you that I have absolutely no problem exceeding the highest speed limit in the nation in first gear. I was riding today and for no apparent reason I decided to give the bike a bit more roll-on than necessary for stability in a corner. I came out of that corner at 95 mph, in a 55, and I was in sixth gear basically taking it easy. I guess my point is, regardless of what you get, it is going to be more than fast enough for street use.

The '09-up are really good according to reviews, but again, I haven't ridden one personally.

I'd been toying with the idea of a supermoto for a while, and now I'm seriously contemplating a cruiser. One that handles well, but it will be far more laid back than my 600.

I thought I was old enough to handle the responsibility. I was wrong. The supersports make it so easy to go fast.

If you are definitely certain that you want a SS, then go with the '09 up if you get a good deal. It won't be as grunty down low as the 636, but according to reviews it will handle considerably better and it beats out the '07-'08 pretty much everywhere in the rev range power-wise. A best of both worlds situation.

[Kevin2109]

well the 636 looks much better

The 636 front brakes are ****, but unless you're tracking the bike it doesnt really matter

Whats you're goal with the bike? If its just to cruise and sometimes ride a little fast both are fine, its comes down to looks more then anything. If you really plan on tracking then the 09+ has an advantage in suspension and brakes but less power

Just remember its more of the rider then the bike!!

[Xoulrath]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

well the 636 looks much better

Well, it looks better than the 09-up anyway.

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

Well, it looks better than the 09-up anyway.

And the 07-08 lol

[kingkang204]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

And the 07-08 lol

I looked at the title of this thread and knew that you'd reply

[Kevin2109]

Now that Ive read more...

No problem with the heat of the undertail, even in 110 with a passenger for 80 miles she didnt complain of her ass getting hot. I love the look of the undertail anyway. The heat comes from the frame really, so sitting in traffic gets your balls a little toasty at times.

Yeah the 07-08 was a fail on kawi's part, I would stay away from them. I'm not talking **** but there are no advantages with that bike

If you're doing city riding the 636 is amazing! So much low end power, I'll get lazy and wont even shift to 1st, ill stay in 2nd or 3rd at lights and go without the bike bogging down much. And track riding is awesome too

Here is my youtube page... Check it out and enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/user/KevinAECF?feature=mhee

[choneofakind]

Hey Kev when are the video's from the track day yesterday going up?? I'm addicted to your bike's lovely sound

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Hey Kev when are the video's from the track day yesterday going up?? I'm addicted to your bike's lovely sound

soon dude! Looking for a good song, always my first step Think ive got it now just have to edit the ****

[RedOctober]

Thanks all for the replies. Well...as far as the purpose...not track, not yet.
First track day is in a month, yay, and I'm going to use my 250 for that. I honestly don't know right now why I would want a 636 or 600 other than going faster but I'm trying real hard to not buy one right now. I suppose I'm addicted. I'll wait to get quite a few track days under my belt first and then reassess (aka "so what's stopping me now?") the situation.
Sigh, this is hard.

[Kevin2109]

Look at it this way.... You think a 600 is insanely fast compared to your 250 and your addicted to it. Well now that I've had the 600 for a while, I could totally see myself getting a 1000 because I want that rush again (in the straights at least) lol Its just like any other drug

But in the corners the 600 still scares the **** out of me because it has so much power over the 250 lol

[ninja250]

636's do wheelies in first gear without trying.
There, I said it.

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by ninja250

636's do wheelies in first gear without trying.
There, I said it.

It can very easy lol I cant WOT in first without loosing the front, I can even clutch up in 3rd lol

[ninja250]

You need a freeway ramp to get my 750 to do that for some reason.
I think it's the angles or something.

Either that or the higher RPM's make the bike less stable or more torque.

I don't know those 600's are whiney high pitch torquey bikes.

I'm always at 4k on the 750 Kinda cool it's like I'm driving a quiet car. Nobody even knows I'm there. The mothership just cruises on through.

[Kevin2109]

I am geared -1,+2 that helps a little

[ninja250]

Kevin Phreak's bike lifts front end every time I get on it and ask for a date.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

I am geared -1,+2 that helps a little

haha nice My buddy did that on his 500 at the end of last season and he loves power wheelying to show off his new-found torque

I went +2 rear and am going back to an 80 profile tire instead of a 90 profile like I have now. Should help get the 250 some pep out of the turns.

[RedOctober]

Regarding the brakes and suspension...assuming my experience on the track with a 250 goes well (rider survives and wants to continue) then eventually I do want to take the 636 (or zx6r) to the track as well. So what's so bad about brakes and suspension? Right now I ride with a club on weekends, we just hit the local sometimes-twisty roads.
Speaking of which...do you find having both 250 and 600 a weird experience? Kevin mentioned on his youtube channel that 636 feels like a fat pig compared to 250 and he has to relearn the lean angles...how much adjustment do you need every time you change a bike?

[ninja250]

There is quite a bit of adjustment requirement from bike to bike.
You need to be used to how each bike feels and know where your sweet spot is on a given bike you're riding.

You can't really just jump on your bro's Ninja and feel comfortable on it right away even though his bike is also a 250. Same thing going from a 250 to a 600.
It feels different in just about every way. You'll basically use the same techniques to ride it, but it's angles and weight and speed and precision make a 600 a much different bike all around.

I'll be honest I'm still more conformable cornering a Ninja than my 750 but I know where the sweet spot on it is and I don't haul too much ass through the corners so it doesn't really matter. I'm still not 100% in tune with my 750 yet and I've owned it a few months and can corner it at basically 3mph without dropping it as tight as it can corner.

I think depending on the bike it could take you a few years to get used to it.
My 750 is like that.
My 250 I could get on it and drag knees in a 3mph 10' diameter circle I'm so comfortable on it.
No way would I even think about trying that on my 750. No way. Then again it's brand new no scratches yet and my ninja has already been crashed. Still at least 50% easier to ride my Ninjette than my 750. Always will be. Everything about the larger bikes means they are harder to ride. 600's are not nimble machines, by far. You begin to notice this when you figure out they can barely make the DMV turns.

600's are big heavy clunky donkeys. Not easy to ride at all.
If you don't need the power, (I need it, I'm a speed freak) then stick to your 250.
Adrian kicks my ass on his every day even though I used to be about as good as him on my Ninja.

636 is a big powerful bike and not easy to control and operate.
250 is a much better bike to ride if you don't have an itchy wrist.

250 is not quite enough power for my liking.
Yeah it does wheelies and goes fast but it don't have the pucker factor of the bigger bikes.
Bigger bikes take real skills or you're probably just going to crash it.

You need real crotch rocket training and practice. This is like comparing a piper cub recreational airplane to a F-15 equipped with sidewinders.
A bigger bike is more serious and responsibility in every way. You pull the trigger on those sidewinders and somebody is going to have to be responsible. Might even start a world war.

[choneofakind]

^1 to that.

You can't just throw it into a corner like the 250. You actually have to set up turns ahead of time. They feel so foreign the first time you make a run through the tight stuff. Being smooth is so much more important, especially when in the "attack" rpms

[Kevin2109]

Didnt have time to respond earlier sorry....

Anyway, you're probably never going to notice the difference in suspension between the 2 years because of your skill. Not saying anything bad about you its just true, to even touch the potential of these 600's takes years

Brakes are an easy fix on the 636 so its really not that much of a factor

When I said the 636 feels like a pig to the 250 thats because it is, and thats how all 600's are going to feel. You cant compare the flickablity of a 350lb to a 450lb bike

After I got the 636 the 250 just sat covered, had no desire to ride her sadly. The 636 is just way to much fun

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

When I said the 636 feels like a pig to the 250 thats because it is, and thats how all 600's are going to feel. You cant compare the flickablity of a 350lb to a 450lb bike

yeah but they're very athletic pigs! once you get into turn and the back wheel bites, it just digs in and rockets out of turns. Just requires some oomph to get it leaned over. Once leaned over though, it's way more planted.

...and my experience is with a '97 F3. I can only imagine what a newer bike feels like with better suspension. I bet Kevin's bike feels like a ballet dancer compared to the bike I rode.

[RedOctober]

So it seems like owning both 250 and 600 isn't going to work out? I'm pretty much concerned about the practicality of spending time on one during the week, switching for a weekend ride/track to another...

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by RedOctober

So it seems like owning both 250 and 600 isn't going to work out? I'm pretty much concerned about the practicality of spending time on one during the week, switching for a weekend ride/track to another...

Not at all, I know a lot of people that keep both. Its all personal preference

[ninja250]

If you are trying to track both bikes at once, I don't think that's going to be very comfortable.

If you just need to commute or around town with one bike and "play" with the other, you'll be OK.

Just don't go expecting to ride both top notch because going back and fourth is tricky. You need time to dial in to a machine.

If I want to do some wheelies or be an idiot I pull my stunt ninja out of the garage and ride around out front on the asphalt and in the dirt field. This don't effect my 750 skills.

Otherwise I'm really trying to focus on my riding if I'm on the 750.
The second you stop paying attention something bad will happen.

Bigger bikes take more focus and practice. Plain and simple.

[ninja250]

PS there is guys out there who can corner my socks off on their 1000 while I'm on my super cornering ability Ninja 250.

It's all in the rider and how tuned he is with his machine.

Your best bet would be to have two of the same bike. One for the track and one for the street. That way, you never lose tune of your vehicle. Otherwise your whole center of gravity can be off from one bike to another and it's just something you have to practice for.

I'd say if you really like your Ninja 250 and don't need more speed, keep it and make it fuel injected so it's not such a pain in the ass. They are pretty nice bikes aside from the flexy tube frame.
I like the engine design to be honest. They pretty much look just like a GSXR too. Nobody can tell the difference.

I bought my 250R in the first place because it's pretty damn cool.
I crashed it being an idiot, but oh well. Lesson learned. I still have it and work on it and it still sitting in my garage right now waiting for me to do some wheelies. Better to learn and crash a $5000 250R than a $13000 GSXR. Bikes cost twice as much after you total them. My ninja really cost me $10,000 and it still needs a $700 frame and $500 forks.

[oreX]

I know a few riders that have the 05 636 in blue. I get a serious case of jealousy every time I see them on it. I love the blue and the under tail exhaust. That bike will probably be my first 600+ cc bike. After about 6 more months of riding experience and if I can find one in decent condition that is.

[saxnbass]

Undertail exhaust, mmmmmmm yummy.

[RedOctober]

Originally Posted by oreX

I know a few riders that have the 05 636 in blue. I get a serious case of jealousy every time I see them on it. I love the blue and the under tail exhaust. That bike will probably be my first 600+ cc bike. After about 6 more months of riding experience and if I can find one in decent condition that is.

I should not have started looking...'cause I found one. Now I'm making myself not get it.

[Kevin2109]

Lol yup its a bitch. I started looking, told myself no, and 2 weeks later was jumping on my 636 lol

[RedOctober]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

Lol yup its a bitch. I started looking, told myself no, and 2 weeks later was jumping on my 636 lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A5XO...eature=related

I suck at embedding.

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by RedOctober

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_49iNqxOnH4

I suck at embedding.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Kevin2109]

just to demonstrate the power of the 636

[youtube]hf1gsGeLA7I[youtube]

Link to original page on YouTube.

[gogoKawi]

If price is not a factor, get the +09. It's the best ZX6 of them all. 05/06 636 you can probably get for around 4k. It's a great bike and you won't be disappointed. 03/04 636 is a beast because it is extremely light, but the handling takes some getting used to. I have the 08. A slip-on makes a world of difference in terms of weight. And changing the sprockets gets you the grunt that it's lacking out of the turns.

[icbm]

I have ridden both a 06 636 and a 09 600RR. The 636 does have more noticeable grunt than the 600RR but you can tell the refinements on the 600 are also quite noticeable. Very nice suspension to start with. Unless you can find one at a good price, go with the 636. Mod at your leisure and/or as money flows.

If you are going to track it, go with the 636 as your starting investment will be way lower too. Your going to end up modding it anyway so once you mod the suspension and brakes your investment will be a little more than the 09 initial cost.

Budgetwise, get the ZX6R or ZX14R brake calipers. Much better clamping power than the old Tokicos. Racetech springs, goldvalves and good 15w oil.

Power upgrades depends on how fast your track can be. I wouldn't worry too much in that area until you can ride the hell out of it the way it sits.

[blink]

636 are more unique, also cheaper

[Rexbo]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

just to demonstrate the power of the 636

[youtube]hf1gsGeLA7I[youtube]

Link to original page on YouTube.

really? a tank slapper in a straight line on a flat street? what happen?