Should i let my bike warm up? - Page 2

lgk · January 23rd, 2013, 07:04 AM

did i understand the ops post wrong?

i thought he was storing the bike long term outdoors.

rojoracing53 · January 23rd, 2013, 07:46 AM

I have a Koso gauge so my oil and water temp read down to the 0.1 of a degree. My bike is always inside overnight so even when it's in the 20s outside the lowest water temp at startup I've seen was 48F. I never use the choke to start the bike because its never needed it. After loading the tailbox with the goodies for the day I start the bike, then unchain the wheels, earplugs, Balaclava, helmet, gloves, and Blutooth. All this takes me about 3 mins after starting the bike and in that time the water will go from 48-50F to 130F and I ride off. Is this the correct way to warmup your bike, well of course it is because I do it, it has to be right

This is just my convenient way of warming up my bike but I've only got 21,000 miles on it so only time will tell on its longevity.

The reason we warm up the race bikes is because the motor is built to run at certain clearances for example the gap from pistons to cylinder. When the metal is cold the gaps are larger then spec and when the motor warms up the metal expands bring the gaps within spec. When we ride a race bike it's usually WOT to the rideline as soon as the clutch is released, so we can't have eccsesive gaps in the motor allowing things to bouce around and scar the cylinder walls. This is why we bring the race bike up to operating temp before riding them. This is also why when I saw the ninja running at 140F during the winter I installed a thermo-bob so it would run at 190F and motor clearances within spec. Will this make a big difference? Most Likely not but in my opinion it should be this way and its peace of mind.

justinsane · February 3rd, 2013, 06:01 AM

I bought my bike straight from the dealer and they recommended to always warm up the bike with the choke for a couple mins then ride out. He said it would make the engine last longer. Idk if that's true but he said he been riding for a long time and rode many different bikes. My bike is used for my daily. I usually start the bike up with the choke, grab my gear and put on my gear(jacket, helmet, gloves, and backpack), then turn the choke off. Usually takes about a good 2-3 mins. By then the bike is usually warm enough for riding. But then again I do live in hawaii where it's always warm (>.<). But I did try to ride the bike right outta the garage without warming it up. I did feel a difference. When I do warm it up it runs smoother. When I didn't warm it up, I could feel the bike struggle a little. But I guess everyone has there own opinion. That's just my observation

YamiLionheart · March 28th, 2013, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choneofakind

My question is what difference is it going to make if you sit and warm it up vs warm it up as you go? None.

I don't see how his location in a cold climate is going to make a difference as to riding vs warming the engine. It's not like warming the engine warms the tires. He would be just as dangerous on slick pavement with a cold engine as he would be on slick pavement with an engine that had been warmed up in the driveway.

Your bike may stall if it isn't warmed up enough.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Check the video at about 1:30 to see exactly what I'm talking about.

I don't know if this is something that solely happens in cold environments, but I just found this video that demonstrates a "problem" I though I was having with my 250 with low power and getting moving in first gear without the bike stalling.

I was initially assuming I had an issue with my carbs, some sort of airflow blockage, or some other larger issue. Turns out I just gotta make sure it warms up a little bit, or I would experience the same issue this guy demonstrated.

Now imagine that happening in the middle of a busy intersection trying to make a left getting going from a stop as the light is turning yellow and you stall

I had an old thread related to the "issue" I was having that I wanted to post this in but I couldn't find it so this will have to do.

CZroe · April 16th, 2013, 08:23 AM

At least one person tried to blame not warming up for his accident. When it's cold it sometimes bogs when you give it gas and barely stays on when you roll on to recover. At this point your throttle position is not relative to the engine's speed and blindly returning it to the point where is is is difficult. Even though the RPMs continued dropping after rolling on the gas, you can hold the throttle or even roll off of it some and still have it rev way too high when the engine stops bogging and catches up.

That one guy claimed to have wheelied through an intersection when turning and totalling his new Ninjette years ago. I'm sure he was exaggerating, but the [engine bog, save from stalling with roll on, roll off as stall is averted, engine recovers and revs too high] thing is absolutely real. I ride aware of it and never open the throttle too much just to keep it alive when it bogs. If it stalls, it stalls. It helps to ride with higher RPMs than normal just to keep from bogging in the first place but that's bad for a cold engine.

choneofakind · April 16th, 2013, 08:34 AM

I forgot to come back to this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YamiLionheart

Check the video at about 1:30 to see exactly what I'm talking about.

I don't know if this is something that solely happens in cold environments, but I just found this video that demonstrates a "problem" I though I was having with my 250 with low power and getting moving in first gear without the bike stalling.

The only "problem" demonstrated at 1:30 in that video is one using the choke.

1)He doesn't give it enough choke to begin with. It should idle around 2500 rpm when cold and on choke. He was barely above a standard idle from what I can hear.

2)He turns the right back off as soon as it's started. Don't do that. Leave it on until it's not needed for normal operation. It's a fuel enricher, not a choke. It won't starve the engine of air like your lawnmower's choke does. There's no need to turn it off immediately upon start up.

3) I've always suggested letting it idle for about a minute with the choke before riding off. This is because that's about how long the bike will need to respond normally to throttle while still on the choke. At that point, you're perfectly fine to ride away with the choke on, and turn it off after a mile or two. Keep the rpm's in check until the engine is fully warmed.

If you do the choke right during start and warm up, you'll only need a minute of 'warming up', even on the coldest mornings, and your bike will never stall.

sze5003 · April 16th, 2013, 10:23 AM

What he described there is exactly what happened to my bike at an intersection. Say I ride for 25-30 min then park, shut it off, come back on it 2 hours later. It still needs choke. I still need to use the choke 2-3 street lights later.

If I give say half choke and start up, after half a minute or less my RPM goes up to 3-3500. Full choke the rpm after the same time shoots up to 4-4500.

My idle without choke is about 1500 I think. How do you know when its at proper idle because with choke the idle will always be higher. On mine, with very little choke, I mean close to off, the lowest idle I get is around 2000.

choneofakind · April 16th, 2013, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sze5003

My idle without choke is about 1500 I think. How do you know when its at proper idle because with choke the idle will always be higher. On mine, with very little choke, I mean close to off, the lowest idle I get is around 2000.

You'll feel it while you're riding. As the engine warms up and no longer needs choke, you'll feel it get soggy when you blip the gas.

sze5003 · April 16th, 2013, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choneofakind

You'll feel it while you're riding. As the engine warms up and no longer needs choke, you'll feel it get soggy when you blip the gas.

What do you mean by soggy? Usually after one or two minutes with the choke almost off, I will turn the choke off at a light. Although, it still has stalled while starting off once or twice.

choneofakind · April 16th, 2013, 11:02 AM

Soggy meaning it feels rich; doesn't hesitate like it's lean, but it bogs a tad and then fights to rev.

sze5003 · April 16th, 2013, 12:08 PM

Yea its weird, my bike does not have issues revving with the choke on even a tiny bit. It will show issues if cold with choke off when I try to rev it while letting go of the clutch. I'll have to mess around with it more its kind of a pain. Already had carbs cleaned, sparks replaced.

choneofakind · April 16th, 2013, 12:15 PM

Have you removed the caps on the mix screws and adjusted those?

Those screws should be somewhere between 2.25 and 2.5 turns out. Cold starting issues are made worse by those being in too far or uneven. Sometimes they're really bad from the factory.

sze5003 · April 16th, 2013, 12:21 PM

No I have not touched the mixing screws. They looked about right, the guy I got it from was a proffesor I know who had it serviced before he put it in the garage for 8 months.

After I bought it from him, it would not idle right at all. I changed the plugs, cleaned the carbs, Took out the jets, cleaned them too, put everything back, it started and I set the idle, then ran fine.

Didn't have time to winterize it this year before the spring but I did ride it twice during the winter. Seems like some days it runs fine after I ride with choke for a mile then turn it off, runs great. Then other days I do the same thing (I'd like to think I do) and it may stall once then not start until I give a little choke again.

choneofakind · April 16th, 2013, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sze5003

Didn't have time to winterize it this year before the spring but I did ride it twice during the winter. Seems like some days it runs fine after I ride with choke for a mile then turn it off, runs great. Then other days I do the same thing (I'd like to think I do) and it may stall once then not start until I give a little choke again.

Sounds like those carbs need a cleaning again, or at least need some cleaner run through the next tank of gas.

sze5003 · April 16th, 2013, 12:31 PM

I'm going to get some seafoam and run it in there. The thing is, the first time I cleaned the carbs, I took them out and they were spotless. Looked brand new, yet I still cleaned them.

I just dread doing it as I live in an apartment, no garage, lost my toolbox, and it took me forever to do it the first time. I kind of live far from a bike shop that requires taking sort of a highway to get there and I'm a little uncomfortable going on there with the bike. Not to mention what they will charge me.

January 23rd, 2013, 07:04 AM	#41
lgk ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Jason Location: Norfolk, VA Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2012 EX250, 2014 EX300 Posts: A lot.	did i understand the ops post wrong? i thought he was storing the bike long term outdoors. __________________________________________________ Ethioknight Memorial Fund- Sticker sale http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=111700

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January 23rd, 2013, 07:46 AM	#42
rojoracing53 Fast-Guy wannabe Name: Jason Location: Brentwood, Ca Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50, Posts: A lot. MOTM - Jan '13	I have a Koso gauge so my oil and water temp read down to the 0.1 of a degree. My bike is always inside overnight so even when it's in the 20s outside the lowest water temp at startup I've seen was 48F. I never use the choke to start the bike because its never needed it. After loading the tailbox with the goodies for the day I start the bike, then unchain the wheels, earplugs, Balaclava, helmet, gloves, and Blutooth. All this takes me about 3 mins after starting the bike and in that time the water will go from 48-50F to 130F and I ride off. Is this the correct way to warmup your bike, well of course it is because I do it, it has to be right This is just my convenient way of warming up my bike but I've only got 21,000 miles on it so only time will tell on its longevity. The reason we warm up the race bikes is because the motor is built to run at certain clearances for example the gap from pistons to cylinder. When the metal is cold the gaps are larger then spec and when the motor warms up the metal expands bring the gaps within spec. When we ride a race bike it's usually WOT to the rideline as soon as the clutch is released, so we can't have eccsesive gaps in the motor allowing things to bouce around and scar the cylinder walls. This is why we bring the race bike up to operating temp before riding them. This is also why when I saw the ninja running at 140F during the winter I installed a thermo-bob so it would run at 190F and motor clearances within spec. Will this make a big difference? Most Likely not but in my opinion it should be this way and its peace of mind.

February 3rd, 2013, 06:01 AM	#43
justinsane ninjette.org newbie Name: Justin Location: Ewa Beach, HI Join Date: Dec 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r Posts: 5	I bought my bike straight from the dealer and they recommended to always warm up the bike with the choke for a couple mins then ride out. He said it would make the engine last longer. Idk if that's true but he said he been riding for a long time and rode many different bikes. My bike is used for my daily. I usually start the bike up with the choke, grab my gear and put on my gear(jacket, helmet, gloves, and backpack), then turn the choke off. Usually takes about a good 2-3 mins. By then the bike is usually warm enough for riding. But then again I do live in hawaii where it's always warm (>.<). But I did try to ride the bike right outta the garage without warming it up. I did feel a difference. When I do warm it up it runs smoother. When I didn't warm it up, I could feel the bike struggle a little. But I guess everyone has there own opinion. That's just my observation

April 16th, 2013, 08:23 AM	#45
CZroe CPT Falcon Name: J.Emmett Turner Location: Newnan, GA Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.	At least one person tried to blame not warming up for his accident. When it's cold it sometimes bogs when you give it gas and barely stays on when you roll on to recover. At this point your throttle position is not relative to the engine's speed and blindly returning it to the point where is is is difficult. Even though the RPMs continued dropping after rolling on the gas, you can hold the throttle or even roll off of it some and still have it rev way too high when the engine stops bogging and catches up. That one guy claimed to have wheelied through an intersection when turning and totalling his new Ninjette years ago. I'm sure he was exaggerating, but the [engine bog, save from stalling with roll on, roll off as stall is averted, engine recovers and revs too high] thing is absolutely real. I ride aware of it and never open the throttle too much just to keep it alive when it bogs. If it stalls, it stalls. It helps to ride with higher RPMs than normal just to keep from bogging in the first place but that's bad for a cold engine.

April 16th, 2013, 10:23 AM	#47
sze5003 ninjette.org member Name: Salim Location: Philadelphia Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2005 SV650S Posts: 195	What he described there is exactly what happened to my bike at an intersection. Say I ride for 25-30 min then park, shut it off, come back on it 2 hours later. It still needs choke. I still need to use the choke 2-3 street lights later. If I give say half choke and start up, after half a minute or less my RPM goes up to 3-3500. Full choke the rpm after the same time shoots up to 4-4500. My idle without choke is about 1500 I think. How do you know when its at proper idle because with choke the idle will always be higher. On mine, with very little choke, I mean close to off, the lowest idle I get is around 2000.

April 16th, 2013, 11:02 AM	#50
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	Soggy meaning it feels rich; doesn't hesitate like it's lean, but it bogs a tad and then fights to rev.

April 16th, 2013, 12:08 PM	#51
sze5003 ninjette.org member Name: Salim Location: Philadelphia Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2005 SV650S Posts: 195	Yea its weird, my bike does not have issues revving with the choke on even a tiny bit. It will show issues if cold with choke off when I try to rev it while letting go of the clutch. I'll have to mess around with it more its kind of a pain. Already had carbs cleaned, sparks replaced.

April 16th, 2013, 12:15 PM	#52
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	Have you removed the caps on the mix screws and adjusted those? Those screws should be somewhere between 2.25 and 2.5 turns out. Cold starting issues are made worse by those being in too far or uneven. Sometimes they're really bad from the factory.

April 16th, 2013, 12:21 PM	#53
sze5003 ninjette.org member Name: Salim Location: Philadelphia Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2005 SV650S Posts: 195	No I have not touched the mixing screws. They looked about right, the guy I got it from was a proffesor I know who had it serviced before he put it in the garage for 8 months. After I bought it from him, it would not idle right at all. I changed the plugs, cleaned the carbs, Took out the jets, cleaned them too, put everything back, it started and I set the idle, then ran fine. Didn't have time to winterize it this year before the spring but I did ride it twice during the winter. Seems like some days it runs fine after I ride with choke for a mile then turn it off, runs great. Then other days I do the same thing (I'd like to think I do) and it may stall once then not start until I give a little choke again.

April 16th, 2013, 12:31 PM	#55
sze5003 ninjette.org member Name: Salim Location: Philadelphia Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2005 SV650S Posts: 195	I'm going to get some seafoam and run it in there. The thing is, the first time I cleaned the carbs, I took them out and they were spotless. Looked brand new, yet I still cleaned them. I just dread doing it as I live in an apartment, no garage, lost my toolbox, and it took me forever to do it the first time. I kind of live far from a bike shop that requires taking sort of a highway to get there and I'm a little uncomfortable going on there with the bike. Not to mention what they will charge me.