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Old February 24th, 2020, 12:18 PM   #41
NorthernNinja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Following in Greg737's example with Ninja 250 and Bandit 400, it would be cool to see EFI conversion with 500 swap. Then add turbo!

There's 4-part Youtube series with turbocharging EX500. Never finished it appears. Guy's apparently has done numerous other turbo bikes, Hayabusas, ZX10Rs, etc.

stahhpp I don't have the money right now lol. I agree, I would love to do both of those things, everyone has been trying to convince me. Particularly my program director in college, he builds turbo powersports engines in his free time so i've got guidance at least if I decide to do that. Maybe the season after this one, when I can afford to destroy engines
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Old March 11th, 2020, 03:14 PM   #42
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Did you give up? Lol
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Old March 11th, 2020, 10:17 PM   #43
NorthernNinja
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Did you give up? Lol
No! just been crazy busy lately, haven't even had time to work on it. But I've actually got several more days of work filmed since then I just haven't had time to edit. I'm getting a little editing done tonight, hoping for another episode soon
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Old March 25th, 2020, 08:11 PM   #44
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Well with all the corona virus stuff, i've had some time to start editing videos. Here's a short episode removing all the wiring and necessary components from the 500, lots more to come!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPpI6Z5HK-Q&t=90s
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Old April 18th, 2020, 03:40 AM   #45
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Old April 18th, 2020, 11:25 AM   #46
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OOoh, that's very nice!!!
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Old April 18th, 2020, 10:35 PM   #47
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Thanks, I did a TON of porting and polishing work on it too. Mostly just on the exhaust side, the intake is actually designed pretty well. port matched and made them symmetrical by volume too. Left the stock compression ratio so I could run pump fuel, maybe i'll give it a little higher compression some day but I think for now this will be an awesome upgrade.

Pulled my ninja apart today. rode it earlier today, then four hours later it looked like this:

IMG_6283.jpg

Not bad time, I'm definitely more familiar with this bike than the 500 lol.
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Old April 19th, 2020, 11:37 AM   #48
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Started following this because I'm gonna do my own engine swap soon(ish).
Seems like the internet is full of people saying "blah blah don't bother" so it's refreshing to see someone with the same, "who cares I'm doing it" mindset as me.

I'm gonna paint the engine up nice, too. Yours looks fantastic!
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Old April 19th, 2020, 12:27 PM   #49
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Starting fallowing this thread for the same reason, almost picked up a donor bike(had a great deal lined up) but decided not to with all the financial uncertainty right now.
I know that it would be easy just to a get bigger bike, but I have done so much to my bike to make it mine that it’s not worth enough to sell. Also I believe 55hp is probably the right amount of power to have fun ripping it without being insane.
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Old April 19th, 2020, 12:42 PM   #50
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I originally went with “get bigger bike” idea. Wanted more power for my 320-lb new-gen track bike. However, doubling power with EX500 gets me 118-lb weight penalty! EX500 is monstrously heavy with poor frame/suspension combo. I should’ve looked at track lap-records first to see that 250 is actually faster than 500.

Even my CBR600RR with 4x power isn’t as much fun as ninjette at track even though it only weighs in at 380-lbs (less than EX500 or even Ninja 300). Extra weigh really hurts braking and cornering.

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; April 19th, 2020 at 03:04 PM.
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Old April 19th, 2020, 04:47 PM   #51
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Guys, don't get me wrong. I still genuinely believe upgrading bikes is a better way to do this. With all the time and money into this swap i could have easily customized a new bike in every way I could imagine. Admittedly I'm doing more than just the engine swap, i'm basically building a bike from the frame up. I could probably just slap the engine in cheaper, but as it stands I could have sold my bike and used the other money I spent to buy pretty decent used ZX6R or something, the reason I'm doing this is because I really want to have something completely unique where every little thing is exactly what I want it to be.

It's also a business investment, as a mechanic/custom guy, having something that shows all my skills from engine building to electronics to paint, will help me secure customers from bike shows and stuff provided I do a good job. I still don't honestly believe it's the greatest idea if you just want a bit more power. That being said, I absolutely love everything about my ninjette, and I would never discourage anyone else from doing the same if they want to. And i'm glad to have your guys support!
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Old April 19th, 2020, 04:50 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daks View Post
Started following this because I'm gonna do my own engine swap soon(ish).
Seems like the internet is full of people saying "blah blah don't bother" so it's refreshing to see someone with the same, "who cares I'm doing it" mindset as me.

I'm gonna paint the engine up nice, too. Yours looks fantastic!
Thanks man! lots more paint work to come in the future for this build, I'm a perfectionist and I want everything to look stunning. The goal is to make it so pretty that you don't even notice the engine swap until I start it, then it's like an added surprise lol.
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Old April 19th, 2020, 07:02 PM   #53
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Easiest power upgrade is 25-shot of nitrous!!!
Will cost you in long-run with those refills!
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Old April 19th, 2020, 09:32 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernNinja View Post
Thanks man! lots more paint work to come in the future for this build, I'm a perfectionist and I want everything to look stunning. The goal is to make it so pretty that you don't even notice the engine swap until I start it, then it's like an added surprise lol.
You're talking to the right person, then! People too often skimp on finish/paint and it makes me sad to see beautiful machines done so ugly.

Can't wait to see it all. I'm a painter myself but I haven't had the fortune of the space to do it as much as I like. My bike came out nice back in 2013 so now I need a nice engine to match lol.
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Old April 20th, 2020, 01:03 AM   #55
NorthernNinja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Easiest power upgrade is 25-shot of nitrous!!!
Will cost you in long-run with those refills!
True! Maybe some day on the drag strip if I get tired of having the connecting rods inside the engine, lol.

@Daks Awesome man! I've been getting into it over the last couple years, I don't have a booth either or the money to practice as much as I'd like, I'm definitely a perfectionist though, I can't have a build that performs well without looking good as well. That's why I did the engine, despite it actually not being visible inside my bike at all, it's the small details that matter to me. And if you manage to peak inside my fairings, I want it to be clear that it's just as special on the inside.
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Old May 5th, 2020, 04:33 PM   #56
NorthernNinja
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Just a question for other people who have done this swap in the past. I'm currently making the mounts for the 500 engine, But looking at the 500 chassis, the engine mounts are slightly right of center on the frame to allow proper sprocket alignment, but on the 250 frame, the mounts ARE centered, and lining the 500 engine up the way the 250 engine is mounted puts the drive chain too far to the left, and it interferes with the frame. Has anyone else dealt with this? Keep in mind, my bike is the new gen. I haven't heard of this issue, but maybe the pregen bikes this isn't an issue? I haven't talked to anyone who's done this in an 08+ bike yet. thanks!
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Old May 6th, 2020, 04:49 PM   #57
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Pictures please! As many as you can. If you can get some with the engine in place with the sprocket exactly where it was on the old motor that would be great.
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Old May 6th, 2020, 06:58 PM   #58
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You may notice on EX500, that there's giant spacer on left-front engine-mount to account for this engine-mounting offset.

Use two frame-holes with wooden-dowels and metals brackets to make an alignment jig. Make a sharp pointer that touches centre of 250's output shaft. Then stack 500 engine up on wooden boards/shims until sprocket is in stock location.

Then you'll see how mounting ears line up. You can use two bolts, one spacer and one metal bracket per ear to reach motor-mounts on frame. Or cut off frame mounts, bolt them to engine and wiggle them around to see where to weld back on.

Front can use Z-shaped bar-stock between engine and factory mounts. Angle and depth of middle section to span offset amount.
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Old May 16th, 2020, 12:48 PM   #59
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Picked up my engine finally! '07 500 with *drumroll* 218 miles on it

I'll probably end up making my own thready once my journey is truly underway.
But you're still a vein of inspiration I'm watching closely.
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Old May 16th, 2020, 06:17 PM   #60
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To deal with removal of rubber mount-inserts on engine, I recommend getting set of FOG's solid motor-mounts. Then welding them to engine. This really simplifies mounting to frame without having to deal with wobbly factory rubber inserts that throws off measurements. Solid mounting also maintains stock 250 quick-handling and maneuverability since engine is used as stressed-member.

Stock EX500 uses rubber-mounting with thin perimeter-frame... wet-noddle. Many people converting over to solid-mounts report much-improved handling.
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Old May 18th, 2020, 06:22 PM   #61
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@Daks I'm excited to see it! I have no issue with you hijacking and asking questions in here but it'd be awesome to see you have your own thread to follow along with! I've got more stuff coming soon, I'm pretty behind on videos but I have lots of footage to edit and post.
@DannoXYZ That's interesting that you mention that. I was actually going to reuse the factory rubber-mounting, I tend to ride my race vehicles on the street more than I probably should, so I thought it would be smart. Do you use the solid mounts on yours? and how much of a difference in vibration do you notice? I will only be drag racing this bike, not riding it on track, and I don't know that the extra frame rigidity would make that much difference for my application? But chassis stuff is something I'm still new at so i'd like to hear your opinion on my situation.

As far as mounting them goes, I'm getting new mounts machined and i'm just going to align the engine in the frame, then tack them onto the frame where they need to be, That's the plan anyway. So I don't think it'll make much difference to me either way in the difficulty of mounting.

Also, I kind of don't want to support fog in any way personally. I can't argue with the quality of his work, but I don't like the way he treats people who want to learn, experiment or do things differently than him. That's how great things are created. I get that being older and having experience, you get tired of the same old questions, but it doesn't mean you can't be humble when other people actually know things you might not, and I genuinely think his mentality towards other people is toxic to our sport. Anyway, little unrelated rant. Bottom line is, for my application, do you really think I would benefit from them?
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Old May 18th, 2020, 11:58 PM   #62
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Yeah, fog does come across bruskly like grumpy old man. That's OK, I just ignore him until I need him for something. Like making me parts that would take me too much time to make myself.

For street bike and dragster, rubber mounts would be better. I do notice more vibration coming through. Both because of bigger engine and solid mounts. For drag-racing, won't make difference either way. For just riding around town, more comfortable with rubber. Glue them in place with rubber or contact cement so they don't throw off your measurements by moving around.

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; May 19th, 2020 at 12:13 PM.
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Old July 15th, 2020, 05:09 PM   #63
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Any new stuff? Just picked up my donor bike, wanted to see the completion of this so maybe if I had everything ready I could do it in a weekend and save downtime. Might have to make it a winter project though.
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Old May 21st, 2023, 01:27 PM   #64
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Well, it's been a lot of years. Are any of the guys who have done this still around?

I've moved a couple times, had some career changes, built a couple other vehicles. And finally, I feel like I've got the resources and confidence to actually continue on this build. I would love to pick up a new ZX4R next season, and I am definitely considering it. But for this year, it's time to get back to this poor old girl (time off work permitting).

Anyone still have their 500 swapped 250's? How are they holding up in the 2020's?
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Old May 21st, 2023, 08:21 PM   #65
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As someone who went from an '09 500 to an '18 400, I have to say that's the practical way to do it. The 400 has slightly less power on paper, but the EFI helps a ton. In normal riding, it feels a tad lower in torque (just doesn't quite have as much grunt as the 500 did), but feels better in every other way. It's still the budget Ninja, but it does have slightly better better stuff (like bigger forks) and modern features, plus an amazing aftermarket. The top tuners are getting 60hp out of them (with a lot of work admittedly), and they're a tad lighter than the NewGen. In my eyes, it really seems to be just about everything you'd get out of a swap like this, plus some other upgrades.

But I do appreciate the work you're doing. If you enjoy it and want to make something unique, it's worth it. If you keep up to your standards, I think it'll be a great bike when it's done.

Thermo-Bob stuff has become a bit of pet project for me (with a lot more theorizing and planning than actual doing). If you're going to use the stock EX500 thermostat housing, I have an idea for how you should be able to mod it to basically build a Thermo-Bob into the stock parts. The remote thermostat is really good at staying cold from lack of flow, which keeps it from opening, which keeps the coolant from flowing, which keeps it cold... The dual coolant outlets on the engine make it more annoying to mod than most of the other little Ninjas, so I'm not sure if you had planned to use the stock parts there or fab up something else.
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