Why your 600 isn't faster than my 250r

[joes280]

Post can be misleading but hear me out. I was talking to a female biker who was stating that she "needs" to upgrade to a 750 because the 600 wasn't fast enough. Which led to a discussion and subsequent race from light to light. My rational is this. If you have a 600 with 60-100hp and from 0-60mph the 600 is only gonna be marginally faster then a lightly modded 250. Especially compounded by the fact that you are scarred of the power. In a light to light scenario unless you have a drag bike, wheelie control etc you cannot launch to hard for fear of wheelie'ing. As with the 250r with a exhaust, jets, and bigger sprocket it will be just as fast or marginally slower until the interstate. I hate to admit it but I have raced a couple of squids for the hell of it, and I must say I embarrased them(not because I smoked them or won for that matter) but because the race was alot closer than it should have been for a 30hp mill.

Now on the interstate it is a totally different world. You will get smoked. But around the city, not so much. This goes against all the arguments the 250 doesn't have enough power to avoid danger or get out of its own way.

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by joes280

Post can be misleading but hear me out. I was talking to a female biker who was stating that she "needs" to upgrade to a 750 because the 600 wasn't fast enough. Which led to a discussion and subsequent race from light to light. My rational is this. If you have a 600 with 60-100hp and from 0-60mph the 600 is only gonna be marginally faster then a lightly modded 250. Especially compounded by the fact that you are scarred of the power. In a light to light scenario unless you have a drag bike, wheelie control etc you cannot launch to hard for fear of wheelie'ing. As with the 250r with a exhaust, jets, and bigger sprocket it will be just as fast or marginally slower until the interstate. I hate to admit it but I have raced a couple of squids for the hell of it, and I must say I embarrased them(not because I smoked them or won for that matter) but because the race was alot closer than it should have been for a 30hp mill.

Now on the interstate it is a totally different world. You will get smoked. But around the city, not so much. This goes against all the arguments the 250 doesn't have enough power to avoid danger or get out of its own way.

WOW!

[Racer x]

you are correct. 0 to 60 will be close .0 to 100 will be a totally different story.

You can counter the argument that that power gets you out of trouble with the fact that brakes get you out of trouble more often then power. And its usually the power that got you into the trouble in the first place.

[coondog]

I was always blessed with great vision for riding, seeing ahead of me and knowing what was developing and even going to happen. I also create and stay in pockets and am intimate with my brakes and downshifting (alone and simultaneously). However I have found that to avoid situations I have gone with the "when in doubt, power out" formula, which comes with years of riding and situational experiences. I say this here because of who spoke before me, another totally experienced and knowledgeable rider, not a child with a deadly weapon, who do get themselves into dire straits with their throttle and no eyes. This site is inundated with them. Thankfully they, as I did before them, come to a site like this and learn, get references etc. and many have blissful introductions to riding.


By the way X, I read the new ninjette top speed record holders articles during his quest for his goal, I would love to see him dethroned by a much more honorable rider such as yourselve. Happy Trails brother.

[coondog]

Originally Posted by joes280

Post can be misleading but hear me out. I was talking to a female biker who was stating that she "needs" to upgrade to a 750 because the 600 wasn't fast enough. Which led to a discussion and subsequent race from light to light. My rational is this. If you have a 600 with 60-100hp and from 0-60mph the 600 is only gonna be marginally faster then a lightly modded 250. Especially compounded by the fact that you are scarred of the power. In a light to light scenario unless you have a drag bike, wheelie control etc you cannot launch to hard for fear of wheelie'ing. As with the 250r with a exhaust, jets, and bigger sprocket it will be just as fast or marginally slower until the interstate. I hate to admit it but I have raced a couple of squids for the hell of it, and I must say I embarrased them(not because I smoked them or won for that matter) but because the race was alot closer than it should have been for a 30hp mill.

Now on the interstate it is a totally different world. You will get smoked. But around the city, not so much. This goes against all the arguments the 250 doesn't have enough power to avoid danger or get out of its own way.

On the Interstate I used to love playing with HD 883's, teasing, letting them get closer so they think I got him now, waving goodbye like he was on a honda 250 in the upper 80's. I grew up and now offer in umbrage to get pushed to my knees and called glory hole. I learnt that on this site.

[joes280]

0-60 is close and if they are scarred of the power of their gixxer or whatever they're riding you may get the drop and be faster to 60.
From the seat of the pants I think my 250 does 60 in about 3.5 to 4 secs, with sprocket, jets and exhaust if I try. Most of my starts start in second gear now though. I usually granny shift just because thats my riding style and I think its a marvel of engineering that a 30hp lawnmower (lol)engine can get 60mpg daily accelerate to 60 in 4secs and go 100mph if need be.

So far all there to know your 250 is not slow, it is quick but not fast. Not saying you should be street racing Busa's or anything.

[Sailariel]

Back in the 60's we were running 500cc to 750cc Cafe Racers and we thought we were hot stuff if we could do the Ton (100MPH). Things have changed. The little Ninja is faster and handles better than my 750 Norton did. We adapt.

[Malicious Logic]

Misleading indeed. If their 600 isn't faster than your 250, that'd mean you believe your 250 is faster than their 600 right? But only when you're racing short distances and not on the highway?

I get the purpose of your post and the point you're trying to get across but the title has me totally lost.

[KawiKid860]

Maybe i misunderstood.. but a 600 does 0-60 in 3-4 seconds, 250 does it closer to 7, 6 with a ton of mods and a good rider. I can do 4.5 seconds to 60 on my 500 without even trying, can get it to low 4s with a decent launch, on the street in winter that is, not the grippiest road conditions. No 250 is going to touch my 500... still the 0-100 of a 600 is about 8 seconds on a 600, 13 seconds on my 500 and probably 16+ on a 250.. Just read all of the posts, no way in a hell a ninjette is running a 3.5 second 0-60. Seat of the pants is a horrible judge for that, youre probably closer to 6 seconds, maybe 5.

[Malicious Logic]

Originally Posted by KawiKid860

Maybe i misunderstood.. but a 600 does 0-60 in 3-4 seconds, 250 does it closer to 7, 6 with a ton of mods and a good rider. I can do 4.5 seconds to 60 on my 500 without even trying, can get it to low 4s with a decent launch, on the street in winter that is, not the grippiest road conditions. No 250 is going to touch my 500... still the 0-100 of a 600 is about 8 seconds on a 600, 13 seconds on my 500 and probably 16+ on a 250.. Just read all of the posts, no way in a hell a ninjette is running a 3.5 second 0-60. Seat of the pants is a horrible judge for that, youre probably closer to 6 seconds, maybe 5.

This was my thought exactly but I'm no mechanical expert, especially not with bikes.

[sixer]

You get the jump some times though...
Posted via Mobile Device

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by joes280

0-60 is close and if they are scarred of the power of their gixxer or whatever they're riding you may get the drop and be faster to 60.
From the seat of the pants I think my 250 does 60 in about 3.5 to 4 secs, with sprocket, jets and exhaust if I try. Most of my starts start in second gear now though. I usually granny shift just because thats my riding style and I think its a marvel of engineering that a 30hp lawnmower (lol)engine can get 60mpg daily accelerate to 60 in 4secs and go 100mph if need be.

So far all there to know your 250 is not slow, it is quick but not fast. Not saying you should be street racing Busa's or anything.

*cough.

what????

I'm a fan of the 250's are faster than 600's theory, but only under very very certain circumstances. Have you ever actually ridden a 600?? have you ever felt what it's like to have your shoulder sockets pulled and your butt slip back and your neck muscles strain to hold your head forward as the bike lifts up in first, causing you to loosen your iron fist on the throttle, and then shifting to 2nd and having it do it again, all the way to 95 mph??? I definitely don't get that on my 250... Acceleration on my 250 is definitely enough to bring a smile to my face, and if I downshift in preparation, I can out-accelerate most cars, but I don't ever recall my 250 straining my neck.

a 250 makes about 14 ft-lbs of torque in stock form.
a 600 makes about 46 ft-lbs in stock form

there is no way a 250 can do 60 in anything near 4 seconds. If the bike were geared that low, you would have to shift into 4th just to get to 60, and shifting takes time.

Sorry dude. As much as I would like to say that my 250 is almost as fast as a 600 off the line, I know that's not true.

People on bigger bikes make fun of us 250 riders enough as it is. Let's pick some smarter battles. 7 seconds >> 4 seconds. Let's leave it there.

[NDspd]

Amen!!!^^^

[GreenNinja]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

*cough.

what????

.........

People on bigger bikes make fun of us 250 riders enough as it is. Let's pick some smarter battles. 7 seconds >> 4 seconds. Let's leave it there.

[jaso]

Originally Posted by KawiKid860

Maybe i misunderstood.. but a 600 does 0-60 in 3-4 seconds, 250 does it closer to 7, 6 with a ton of mods and a good rider. I can do 4.5 seconds to 60 on my 500 without even trying, can get it to low 4s with a decent launch, on the street in winter that is, not the grippiest road conditions. No 250 is going to touch my 500... still the 0-100 of a 600 is about 8 seconds on a 600, 13 seconds on my 500 and probably 16+ on a 250.. Just read all of the posts, no way in a hell a ninjette is running a 3.5 second 0-60. Seat of the pants is a horrible judge for that, youre probably closer to 6 seconds, maybe 5.

I hate to say this about your reply, but I will. YOUR TOTALLY WRONG. Why do people think and say thing's like you have about the 250r. It alway's comes from a rider with a bigger bike than the 250r. I have had my 08' 250r ninja since its birth. And I love it.
I also have a few MODS but not all that are avalible...yet. NOT EVER since I have owned this bike has it EVER takin me 7,6,or 5 seconds to reach 0-60 mph. In fact, my bike hits the 60 mph from a dead stop at about 3.5 seconds. And on a very cold morning, when the motor and chain is tight, my little ninja will pull the front tire about 4" off the ground through 1,2,3 sift's from a 0-60 mph pull.
Sorry, not trying to be rude but tired of hearing this kinda stuff all the time. Maybe your 500 needs a tune up.

[thisisbenji]

No way... My buddy has a 97 ZX6R, and destroys my 09 250r in a 0-60.. It's not even a competition. Maybe if your getting closed to beating 600s they aren't trying to race you?

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by jaso

I also have a few MODS but not all that are avalible...yet.

like what? JATO rockets?

Originally Posted by jaso

NOT EVER since I have owned this bike has it EVER takin me 7,6,or 5 seconds to reach 0-60 mph. In fact, my bike hits the 60 mph from a dead stop at about 3.5 seconds. And on a very cold morning, when the motor and chain is tight, my little ninja will pull the front tire about 4" off the ground through 1,2,3 sift's from a 0-60 mph pull.

yeah, and I'm actually President Obama's 2nd cousin...

I'll believe that when I see an unaltered video of you and your uncontrollably torquey ninja busting out a 3.5 second 0-60 at a drag strip with the front wheel in the air in first, second, and third... without popping the clutch on every shift.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by jaso

I hate to say this about your reply, but I will. YOUR TOTALLY WRONG. Why do people think and say thing's like you have about the 250r. It alway's comes from a rider with a bigger bike than the 250r. I have had my 08' 250r ninja since its birth. And I love it.
I also have a few MODS but not all that are avalible...yet. NOT EVER since I have owned this bike has it EVER takin me 7,6,or 5 seconds to reach 0-60 mph. In fact, my bike hits the 60 mph from a dead stop at about 3.5 seconds. And on a very cold morning, when the motor and chain is tight, my little ninja will pull the front tire about 4" off the ground through 1,2,3 sift's from a 0-60 mph pull.
Sorry, not trying to be rude but tired of hearing this kinda stuff all the time. Maybe your 500 needs a tune up.

Take a video of your bike hitting 60 in 3.5 seconds, and I will send you a $100 Visa card. Be sure to take into account speedo error. If you are unable to complete the task, then you must send me $1. That's right, this bet pays 100:1.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Be sure to take into account speedo error.

and measuring in kph doesn't count either

[jaso]

Originally Posted by thisisbenji

No way... My buddy has a 97 ZX6R, and destroys my 09 250r in a 0-60.. It's not even a competition. Maybe if your getting closed to beating 600s they aren't trying to race you?

I never said I raced a 600.

[joes280]

I'm no professional drag racer and this has not been timed professionally but yes from stop light to stop light and average modded 250 can keep up with a 600 that is stock most of the times. Also first gen ninjas do 5.5sec stock to 60. When you factor in user skills (i.e. someone being scared of the bike) and your confidence in your 250 it is very possible to keep up or even beat a 600 light to light. You also must factor in where a 600 makes its power, if its a 4cyl like most then its in the upper band of the rev range. You will wheelie a 4cy revving to 6k off the line. The 250 does not have that much torque so I can rev like crazy early on.

Again these are theories of what happened, but it has happened. Maybe they weren't really trying that hard. But the chick with 600rr was and she barely beat me. Just because someone says it isn't possible only means they can't do it. Also I have ridden a bike bigger then a 250r, I owned a Ducati monster before and my dad has an FJ1100, so I have a reference point,lol.

[jaso]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

like what? JATO rockets?



yeah, and I'm actually President Obama's 2nd cousin...

I'll believe that when I see an unaltered video of you and your uncontrollably torquey ninja busting out a 3.5 second 0-60 at a drag strip with the front wheel in the air in first, second, and third... without popping the clutch on every shift.

Yes you are right, I am popping the clutch.

[dino74]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Take a video of your bike hitting 60 in 3.5 seconds, and I will send you a $100 Visa card. Be sure to take into account speedo error. If you are unable to complete the task, then you must send me $1. That's right, this bet pays 100:1.

Let me do a little math in my head ...

60 MPH is 88 feet per second.

Gravity is 32 feet per second squared.

Velocity if i remember is something like v=at so t = v/a = 88/32 = 2.75 seconds.

Ahh, so 2.75 seconds of freefall = 60 mph

Anyone want to loan me their 250? I'll split the $100 with you.

[jaso]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Take a video of your bike hitting 60 in 3.5 seconds, and I will send you a $100 Visa card. Be sure to take into account speedo error. If you are unable to complete the task, then you must send me $1. That's right, this bet pays 100:1.

Cool, I love a good challenge

[joes280]

lol...I don't have enough clout on this forum yet...but it's good discussion, maybe somebody like RacerX or the guy who did the 15/41 sprockets can chime in to give there opinion.

Also again its a seat of the butt-o-meter, I never said I have trap times to verify the 0-60. I do have a 4 sec to 60 car with a big turbo and 350hp and it feels "as quick".

[jaso]

Originally Posted by dino74

Let me do a little math in my head ...

60 MPH is 88 feet per second.

Gravity is 32 feet per second squared.

Velocity if i remember is something like v=at so t = v/a = 88/32 = 2.75 seconds.

Ahh, so 2.75 seconds of freefall = 60 mph

Anyone want to loan me their 250? I'll split the $100 with you.

I Will loan you my bike if you have a device to take and upload the video. I love money in my pocket's. I hope he's good at keeping bets.

[dino74]

Originally Posted by jaso

I Will loan you my bike if you have a device to take and upload the video. I love money in my pocket's. I hope he's good at keeping bets.

Oh yeah! I just got a Contour Roam. Just so we are clear, you do know your bike is going to come to a complete stop at 2.7500000001 seconds?

[Kevin2109]

Hahahahahahahahaha This is a good one, my bike makes almost 110hp stock, 0-60 stock is under 3.5, right now its about 3. My 250 came no where near this. Even at a 5 second head start ill pass a 250 before it hits 100

[thisisbenji]

Originally Posted by jaso

I never said I raced a 600.

Didn't say you did, but the thing is the 0-60 time of a 250 is literally DOUBLE that of a 600. It's so much slower than you can be WOT and feel like your not even moving.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by joes280

lol...I don't have enough clout on this forum yet...but it's good discussion, maybe somebody like RacerX or the guy who did the 15/41 sprockets can chime in to give there opinion.

Also again its a seat of the butt-o-meter, I never said I have trap times to verify the 0-60. I do have a 4 sec to 60 car with a big turbo and 350hp and it feels "as quick".

waitwaitwaitwait. 15/41 is for top speed and longer gears. that would actually make your 0-60 times slower because your rear wheel would be turning more times per every revolution of the engine than with the stock 14/45

the-seat-of-the-pants-ometer doesn't have exact numbers. How did you come to the conclusion that it takes exactly 3.5 seconds? Go race that 350hp car with big turbo off the line to 60. enjoy the sight of its' rear end.

[Vampyre]

Link to original page on YouTube.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

Even at a 5 second head start ill pass a 250 before it hits 100

very true, but the thread fail is only about 0-60, which is still definitely not a competition.

The OP is talking about launching better than a rider who cannot launch on the 600. That I sorta understand. The 600 was still quicker though

jaso apparently has modifications that the rest of the world has never seen and his 250 can do 60 in 3.5 seconds.

Either that, or he's in a universe where things age at half the rate as the rest of us and so time just goes at half speed while he goes at the normal rate.

...or he's just full of it and he's actually doing 60 in 6 seconds, (maybe 5.75) just like the rest of us mere mortals

[joes280]

it's so funny how we have so many forum scientists...lol...with all this rhetoric and etc. But nobody has tried it? Who is getting to a 100mph between lights? I don't know where you are from but our lights usually don't span that far between in the city. Simple task, I dont necessarily condone street racing but ask one of those so called friends with a 600 to race you to the nearest light. Make sure it is one that won't require you to go past 50-60mph and see how you measure up. You will be surprised how close you are if you try.

Not to bag on the forum but all forums are like this, you have a majority of people who says it can't be done. Then you have people who are doing the things that they say can't be done and don't post often because they are doing those things and don't frequent the forum.

Just trying to get people to open there eyes on the 250, I love the bike it is a great all around bike. And for the people who are checking out one, to know that in normal riding scenarios the power disparity isn't big of a deal.

Also specs and so forth sometimes go out the window in reality. I have been moddin cars and the like for awhile now and sometimes something that should be better isn't and the like.

And don't qoute me on that but I believe the guy did do a 15/41 and he said that with his mods he was faster because of the rpm in the powerband he was using and the need to only shift to second.

[Havok]

Originally Posted by joes280

Post can be misleading but hear me out. I was talking to a female biker who was stating that she "needs" to upgrade to a 750 because the 600 wasn't fast enough. Which led to a discussion and subsequent race from light to light. My rational is this.
If you have a 600 with 60-100hp and from 0-60mph the 600 is only gonna be marginally faster then a lightly modded 250. Especially compounded by the fact that you are scarred of the power. In a light to light scenario unless you have a drag bike, wheelie control etc you cannot launch to hard for fear of wheelie'ing. Huh? To properly launch a 250 you have to hold the revs up and clutch slip just like a 600. its not like a normal take off lol. Hell to beat a 250 off the line in a 0-60 i dont even have to clutch slip my fazer i can be lazy and still blow past one. As with the 250r with a exhaust, jets, and bigger sprocket it will be just as fast or marginally slower until the interstate. WTF? Just as fast? marginally? a bigger sprocket? none of that makes any sense. I guess if the other rider sucks ass you may get lucky but seriously[/COLOR I hate to admit it but I have raced a couple of squids for the hell of it, and I must say I embarrased them(not because I smoked them or won for that matter) but because the race was alot closer than it should have been for a 30hp mill.

Now on the interstate it is a totally different world. You will get smoked. But around the city, not so much. This goes against all the arguments the 250 doesn't have enough power to avoid danger or get out of its own way.

This is in all honestly one of the things that pisses me off about the 250 community. For some reason a lot of 250 owners feel the need to make the 250 bigger and badder then it is. It has to be better then a 600 at XXX. There are things a 250 does well and they are great bikes but trying to claim they are faster then a 600 is dumb.

[Kevin2109]

Pretty sure everyone here has had there eyes opened lol This is a 250r support group. But dude, come on, Ive done it multiple times, a 250r cant even come close to a 600, NOT EVEN CLOSE. Next time im out with friends ill take a video of us racing the 250 and the 636, its not comparison, NONE


Your making this forum more of a support group then it already is lol

[Trailerboy531]

I offer to join that video, we can do it at tech day.

seriously I love my 250 but I don't need to kid myself about it. A 600 will kill me off the line and I ride the **** out of it. Kill. Me. It's simply not as fast as a super sport.

[Malicious Logic]

Originally Posted by joes280

it's so funny how we have so many forum scientists...lol...with all this rhetoric and etc. But nobody has tried it? Who is getting to a 100mph between lights? I don't know where you are from but our lights usually don't span that far between in the city. Simple task, I dont necessarily condone street racing but ask one of those so called friends with a 600 to race you to the nearest light. Make sure it is one that won't require you to go past 50-60mph and see how you measure up. You will be surprised how close you are if you try.

Not to bag on the forum but all forums are like this, you have a majority of people who says it can't be done. Then you have people who are doing the things that they say can't be done and don't post often because they are doing those things and don't frequent the forum.

Just trying to get people to open there eyes on the 250, I love the bike it is a great all around bike. And for the people who are checking out one, to know that in normal riding scenarios the power disparity isn't big of a deal.

I'm pretty sure our members do more than just sit around here all day, talking about riding instead of actually riding.

I'm one of the people who's been checking out what for awhile now and plan on getting one in the spring. That being said, I don't need exaggerated figures to encourage me to buy the bike. I know what it can and can't do. I know it's no supersport. I'm pretty sure it can't beat a 600 0-60. I also know a 250 has plenty of power to handle everyday needs of a commuter as well as casual riding. I don't need it to beat 600s or be breakneck fast. I need it to be what it is and I think most here would agree.

[Kevin2109]

@joes280

[jaso]

Lol, nice ....... but how can you speak for everyone out there, wow I didn't know u are a mind reader. I will just come to you if I need to know what someone else is thinking. And why do you reply with a "maybe" or a "sorta understand" ? I know why, u like to argue about things you know nothing about and then try to sound good while doing it......
Posted via Mobile Device

[Trailerboy531]

Jaso, uh....who the heck are you talking to?