Coolant Issue - White Crystals

[MattRichling]

Short Storey - Have these white crystal like substance near my rad cap. Wondering if anyone has seen this before? I flushed this multiple times, used the pre mixed 50/50 honda stuff. thermostat is good, waterpump is good, had the rad cleaned, hot wire fan and it comes on but don't think it comes on before red light, no oil in coolant - no coolant in oil. Also, the bottom seat in the photo (the black ring) should go all the way around, as it did when I put that new 'rad cap seat thing' in a week ago.

Long Storey - Its a 2011 - bought it new. It sat for three years after the first year. When I opened it up to flush this year, coolant was full of that type of gunk. No oil in coolant, or coolant in oil. The bike runs fine (other than over heating). Thermostat checks out fine in boiling water. Replaced rad cap. Took rad to specialist here and had it professionally cleaned out. The rad cap seat looked like the ones in the photos, swapped it out for newer one, and a week later it looks like that. The bottom seat/seal should go all around, not just the half. Tested the fan, it comes on when I jump it, but pretty sure it doesn't come on otherwise. *new switch on order My initial thought was it must be a reaction to something, but Ive flushed it a bunch of times and only used premixed 50/50 coolant from honda for the bikes. I would say its not oil, since it would be more milky and brown, and not crystal almost like paper.


Anyone see this before?

I have a few ideas of what it could be, but can't do much till I get a new rad cap seat part in.

[MattRichling]

Oops some how I posted this in Farkles... if someone can move it!

[Brother Michigan]

If it's coming back after a cleaning and a flush, it either has to A) be already present in the coolant, B) already present in the system, or C) caused by a reaction between the coolant and system. You can reasonably rule out the first possibility (assuming the coolant was recently newly purchased) and also the second (assuming you trust your radiator guy), so the easiest thing to do is to flush the system again and try a different coolant. Of course, given that the bike is now overheating, it's possible that a simple flush may not be enough to remove all of the gunk that may have built up in the radiator from whatever has been occurring, necessitating another cleaning by a professional.

[alex.s]

i believe it's aluminum oxide.

[jkv45]

I would drain it again, fill with fresh water, and run it for a minute or 2. Then drain it again completely. If it doesn't look good, I'd do it again until it comes out clear.

Then I would try another coolant.

Does it overheat in normal riding? The fan never starts? I would check the temp sending unit.

You don't want it overheating. There's something going on that needs to be corrected.

[csmith12]

Hide your bike and delete this thread ASAP!!!!

This is how the track crack is made. lol

[choneofakind]

^^ wait... what?

Sub'd.

[MattRichling]

Quick update - Im waiting on a fan switch and rad cap seat thing. While I am waiting I am going to flush the whole system a bunch of times with distilled water, and pull the rad off and flush it separately - ensure flow and no extra **** inside it. Not much I can do without the rad cap sealing properly.

Thinking about a new rad - There are a few from China ($40US) and customs in the states from ($150US)... Has anyone used these Chinese ones?

This is happening because I had just swapped the rear shock, front springs, oil... just want to ride the damn thing now.

[MattRichling]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Hide your bike and delete this thread ASAP!!!!

This is how the track crack is made. lol

haha... You're scaring the kids.

[choneofakind]

Reading off the ninja250.org wiki, regular tap water is okay for flushing but don't use it for normal operation. I'd still use the distilled water for the last flush to be sure.

Might do you some good to disconnect the bottom of the radiator from its hose and run the garden hose into the top and keep flushing. That's what I'd do. Like I said, I'd do a final flush with distilled water and then one flush with some coolant before my actual fill with coolant. Donate some coolant to science

[spooph]

If this residue it happening in your radiator, it's probably also happening in the block and water pump.

I had this happen a few years ago when I switched to water wetter and tap water for track use, and left it in for the remainder of the summer.

I used something like this, following the directions on the back, then flushed with distilled water 3 times, each time running the engine up to temperature and keeping it there for 15 min to make sure it got around all the parts and pieces inside the engine (water pump, thermostat, etc).

Been on regular, budget 50/50 green coolant from the auto store for 3 years no and no issues...

I'm sure something in the tap water caused the AL block and radiator to corrode. This then forms a scale in your entire system, engine block, water pump and radiator which reduces thermal conductivity and that is probably why you are overheating.

Just flushing with water won't clean it out. You either have to take the entire engine apart and inspect all of the water jackets, etc, or you can try that flush. POR also makes some really good stuff for this purpose.

EDIT: Sorry, not POR, actually BG:

https://www.bgprod.com/catalog/cooli...ystem-cleaner/

[choneofakind]

Oh, duh. Not just radiator.

More flushing options. We used this stuff at work for other applications than cooling systems.
http://www.amazon.com/Royal-Purple-C...keywords=01650

[jkv45]

A significant build-up of deposits in the cooling system would explain the overheating issue. Even if the radiator were cleaned there still could be deposits on the walls of the water passages that would restrict heat transfer. Hopefully it's not gotten to that extent.

If you pulled off the hoses you could get a look inside the system and get a better idea of the condition of the passages.

[spooph]

If you pull the coolant inlet on the back of the engine which comes directly from the water pump, that's the place where the worst corrosion happens.

This would also require either removing the engine, or at the very least the carbs... But it will give you the worse case scenario.

Royal Purple is good stuff too. So you could just run those through and save yourself some time. It's going to hurt anything regardless of what you do, so...

[MattRichling]

Pulled the rad, waterpump, and hoses last night. The rad for sure is plugged, it barley has a tiny trickle through it. Big blobs of white goo, black paint (from inside the coolant metal tubes, and white minerals came out. I looked in the rad and can see the rad fins plugged up. Some of the hoses from the overflow tank were plugged (was able to blow it out). The waterpump was very clean. Also that seat thing for rad cap has been eaten away, forgot to get a picture, but its messed up.

Have the rad sitting in vinegar, but doubt it will do anything. Have ordered a used OEM one off ebay.

Anyone have issues with the black paint on inside of coolant pipes come off?

Now my worry is what caused this... I flushed it this year, but maybe not well enough. I don't want to replace everything and have the issue come back and need to order a new rad. I feel like its a chemical reaction or something...

[spooph]

The black inside and behind the impeller on the water pump, is that paint?

My thought here is:
You are spot on. Something was introduced to your cooling system which dissolved the radiator cap rubber. There are a few things which eat rubber, none of which should be close to your cooling system. If it dissolved the cap's rubber, it probably damaged the hoses as well. Once such a substance gets into rubber it's doomed to fail. Once rubber degrades it becomes porous very quickly and ingests such nastiness. To get it clean and completely removed is next to near impossible.

Luckily AL is much more resilient than rubber.

If you access to an ultra sonic cleaner, keep bathing the radiator in vinegar, in it. The problem is the vinegar won't be continually exposed to the affected areas, and an ultrasonic cleaner will insure new vinegar get's to those spots.

You could also try Goop or some other form of de-greaser. If you can't get it, send it to me, regardless if you're going to replace it or not, I would like to look at it more and have a chemist buddy who can help diagnose this issue..

As for going forward, remove all the parts you can and physically clean them completely, with a toothbrush and whatever seems to remove the gunk - try alcohol, engine de-greaser (but don't let it touch rubber parts, metal only), goop, simple green and so on.

Get regular vinyl hose in the same diameter as the radiator hoses and connect it to the input/output hoses for the engine/block. Run 2 or 3 of those cleaning solutions through it. Decide on 1 type, and get 2 or 3 "servings". Follow the directions and post picture of fluid going in and out. I'm sure they want it to be left in the system for a while. Make sure to remove and/or bypass the thermostat so it gets everywhere.

Once these cleaners have gone through, rinse/flush with distilled water. If the water is coming out completely clean, repeat.

Once you know the block is clean, the new rad is clean, the water pump, thermostat and thermostat housing is clean, get new rad hoses and hook it all up again... You should have to worry about the overflow hose for the coolant reservoir, but the feeder hose going to the thermostat housing should also be inspected, if not replaced.

Too bad you're so far away, otherwise I could take of this for you...

Don't loose heart. Keep going, a little bit each day. Keep track of your parts in baggies, egg cartons, cardboard, with labels and keep posting pics. We'll lick this thing yet!

[Ghostt]

Just drop the radiator off at a radiator shop, and have it "boiled" and pressure checked, money well spent in the long run, IMHO.

Also a good excuse to upgrade to silicone hoses.

[MattRichling]

Yeah I just dropped it back off at a rad place to have sit in the bath. If I had an ultra sonic cleaner, that would be the best bet. It was pretty blocked when they tested it and didn't seem very hopeful. Have another rad on the way, regardless.

Here is a pic of the steam erosion - what I think has happened. This has dried now.

I think Spooph is right with everything, especially the cleaning.

[MattRichling]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

Also a good excuse to upgrade to silicone hoses.

Ughhh Another $200cdn I don't want to spend if I don't have too! The Samco's look good, but any other brand that make some for our bike? Other than cheapo Chinese ones?

[choneofakind]

ehhhhhh, I'm using basic old fashioned coolant hose for my bike that I picked up from autozone. They have bulk stock of various sizes of coolant hoses. No problems yet. Super cheap if you cut it the wrong length or accidentally damage it in some way. When in doubt, pick up a few extra feet for those occasions when you find yourself having 'special' moments and measure wrong.

$20 should get you more than enough for the whole bike. Heck, that should be enough for like 3 or 4 bikes...

[MattRichling]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

ehhhhhh, I'm using basic old fashioned coolant hose for my bike that I picked up from autozone. They have bulk stock of various sizes of coolant hoses.

I had the upper hose, from head to thermo blow earlier this year (I nipped it with a screw driver... my fault), and had a bitch of a time to get replacement. 90 degree bend with each end a different size. Finally got it to work with some cheap hose from Princess Auto. Funny thing is I spent a couple days going to truck shops trying to get something that would work... cheap worked fine. I have wanted to grab the Samco's but the CDN distributors are about 190+tax+shipping.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by MattRichling

Ughhh Another $200cdn I don't want to spend if I don't have too! The Samco's look good, but any other brand that make some for our bike? Other than cheapo Chinese ones?

A quick search on eBay, turned up a few, here's only a couple for example

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Red-Kit-Sili...60623c&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SILICONE-RAD...d619b9&vxp=mtr

There available in other colors, I had mine made in gray/silver.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by MattRichling

Man! What's that all about?

I can't say I've seen corrosion that bad before. Any chance you mixed one brand of coolant with another of a different chemistry and got a chemical reaction? Like some was left in the system when you changed? Have you used any type of chemical flush or cleaner at any time?

[MattRichling]

Brought the rad into the rad guys. They blew some water and nothing was going through it at all. Sat it in the bath for a while and he said its at about 80% now. Only spent $20 which is not too bad.

Ive installed the rad back on, and installed the previous rad cap seat which isn't as bad as the photo above. Just used distilled water, filled it up and took it for a good run (15min) and going to flush and re-do a bunch of times. Anxiously waiting for the new Rad, fan switch, rad cap seat to come in (also waiting for the Woodcraft Clipons so I can install the, R6 throttle, grips, preload adjusters! LOL)

I also snapped the coolant drain bolt which has a slow leak until the new one comes in..... honestly - LOL one thing after another.

Originally Posted by Ghostt

A quick search on eBay, turned up a few, here's only a couple for example.

I think I'm just going to pull the trigger, Ive read the Chinese silicone is **** and not worth the $40. But I've read a bunch saying there haven't been any issues. I don't want to drop $200 on the Samco hoses.

Originally Posted by jkv45

I can't say I've seen corrosion that bad before. Any chance you mixed one brand of coolant with another of a different chemistry and got a chemical reaction? Like some was left in the system when you changed? Have you used any type of chemical flush or cleaner at any time?

After flushing the system with distilled, I can say with 100% certainly I didn't fully remove the previous coolants when I had flushed originally. So yes, I would have had the Prestone Flush stuff mixed in there still, plus old coolant and who knows. A bunch of all that **** together, might make sense. Just really freaking weird.

[MattRichling]

Not much of an update - waiting on parts that should come in this week. BUT Ive been able to run for much longer periods of time with just distilled water. I think the last rad cleaning did the trick - still not perfect, but the new to me rad should fix the issues along with the new fan switch. I went for an 45 min ride last night with no over heating red light.

Side note - Swapped to 15t front sprocket and holy cow that is a big difference - fully agree this is how it should have come from the factory. Much more enjoyable to ride now. Not to mention the new front springs and rear gsxr shock!