When to go synthetic

Betlog · January 9th, 2010, 05:27 PM

When do you guys recommend I switch to synthetic?

I have about 100 miles right now and I plan on doing the following:
200 - oil change with regular oil
400 - oil change with regular oil
600 - oil change with regular oil
1000 - oil change with synthetic

Does that sound good? Or should I go part-synthetic on 1k miles?

Snake · January 9th, 2010, 05:30 PM

You can safely switch to synthetic oil after the break-in is over.

BlueRaven · January 9th, 2010, 05:35 PM

U don't need to have that many oil changes before 1,000 miles.

Samer · January 9th, 2010, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueRaven

U don't need to have that many oil changes before 1,000 miles.

True that!

I switched to Shell Rotella T full synthetic from Walmart at 1000 and I'm happy

Prior to that I did the 600 mile service at the dealer at about 540 miles.

Samer · January 9th, 2010, 06:00 PM

By the way, do you plan on replacing the crush washers each time? If you're changing the oil that many times with the same washer, that could be bad. I'd change it each time to be safe. I got my crush washers straight from the dealer.

Ride safe and have fun!

Sailariel · January 9th, 2010, 06:38 PM

Samer, What did Kawi charge for the washers? I have 8500 mi on my Ninja, run Rotella-T Synthetic, and have not changed crush washers. I use a torque wrench on the drain plug and filter plate. My oil changes are every 3000 mi. The drain plug has not leaked any oil to date. I changed to Synthetic after 1000 mi. and have had no problems---in fact my shifter operates a lot more smoothly with synthetic. As Blue Raven said, you don`t need to change oil that often. I changed with regular Kawasaki 10-40 at 100 mi and then changed to Synthetic at 1000 mi. After that, I change oil and filter every 3000 mi.

Betlog · January 9th, 2010, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueRaven

U don't need to have that many oil changes before 1,000 miles.

I wanna be sure that all the metal shavings are cleaned up during break-in.

Betlog · January 9th, 2010, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samer

By the way, do you plan on replacing the crush washers each time? If you're changing the oil that many times with the same washer, that could be bad. I'd change it each time to be safe. I got my crush washers straight from the dealer.

Ride safe and have fun!

Yes, I plan on replacing the washers and o-rings each time. I'm still getting the hang of this. I was super, super close to dropping the bike today

rockNroll · January 9th, 2010, 08:07 PM

You can run synthetic at 1 mile... all the talk about it being bad is hogwash. However! Using synthetic during your multi-oil-change break in period is kinda expensive.

Snake · January 9th, 2010, 08:35 PM

I have 18,000 and have never changed out my crush washer with no leaks so far. Although I think during my next oil change it would be a good idea to change it. Cheap insurance.

Samer · January 10th, 2010, 04:11 PM

Interesting feedback. I can't remember how much the crush washer cost, maybe 75 cents each or a dollar. For those who never changed it and didn't have any problems, Does it always stay stuck on the drain plug the whole time? If so, I can imagine that it tightens in the same location each time so it is okay, if it rotates relative to the bolt, that could be an issue I imagine. That thing is very soft. I know because I had a lot of trouble taking it off the bolt. That was my first ever oil change so I'm still learning.

For sure, use a torque wrench every time regardless!

BlueRaven · January 10th, 2010, 04:21 PM

I use K&N oil filters and they come with the o-rings so i change them everytime. A torque wrench is a must for almost everything u do on this bike.

Samer · January 10th, 2010, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueRaven

I use K&N oil filters and they come with the o-rings so i change them everytime. A torque wrench is a must for almost everything u do on this bike.

I think changing the o-rings each time is pretty unanimously agreed upon, but based on this thread and another current thread (you'll see it

) there are many who have never had a problem with not changing the crush washer. We're not talking big money here, so that is perhaps why some (like me) will keep changing it anyway.

By the way, mine was clearly depressed (circle mark) by the bolt when I took it off. Maybe the dealer torques more than 14.5 ft-lbf.

randomwalk101 · January 10th, 2010, 08:10 PM

There's a thing called an oil filter that filters out metal shavings
Posted via Mobile Device

whylee · January 10th, 2010, 08:51 PM

I changed my oil at 50 miles and went with Mobil 1 full syn. Syn oil is fine from the start. I have done this with all my bikes and never a problem.

OldGuy · January 10th, 2010, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockNroll

You can run synthetic at 1 mile... all the talk about it being bad is hogwash. However! Using synthetic during your multi-oil-change break in period is kinda expensive.

And your basis for this bold statement rock is ????

kkim · January 11th, 2010, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randomwalk101

There's a thing called an oil filter that filters out metal shavings
Posted via Mobile Device

then how do you account for the metal shavings on the bottom of the oil pan when doing an oil change? I agree with you that any oil with shavings that does pass through the filter will have the shavings filtered out, but who says all oil in the engine will be cycled through the filter?

HKr1 · January 11th, 2010, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samer

I think changing the o-rings each time is pretty unanimously agreed upon, but based on this thread and another current thread (you'll see it

) there are many who have never had a problem with not changing the crush washer.

We are still using the stock o-rings, if there not f'd up..... there still good

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldGuy

And your basis for this bold statement rock is ????

Maybe it's: look at all the cars that come with it from the factory.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...ics/Myths.aspx

rockNroll · January 11th, 2010, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldGuy

And your basis for this bold statement rock is ????

Someone who has been testing and developing tests for oils in gasoline and diesel engines and has been doing this for 20-something years, it's what he does for a living. When Mobil wants their Mobil 1 oils tested by an independent lab, he's one of the people who do it. I consider him the upper-most authority when it comes to engine lube

bdavison · January 11th, 2010, 09:12 AM

RockNroll, sorry, but thats not entirely correct.

All that "wait certain miles before switching stuff" started with the Harley Davidson engines. The seals in them would soak up the standard oil. Once they switched to synthetic, the seals wouldnt soak up the synthetic. They started shrinking, and leaking like crazy. Thats why you'll be hard pressed to convince some HD riders to ever use synthetic oil.

There's also the issues with clutch plates. In a car, it doesnt matter because the clutch plates arent bathed in engine oil.....but in a motorcycle, they are. During the break-in period its important for the clutch plates to bed in. If they dont you'll have issues.

rockNroll · January 11th, 2010, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdavison

RockNroll, sorry, but thats not entirely correct.

All that "wait certain miles before switching stuff" started with the Harley Davidson engines. The seals in them would soak up the standard oil. Once they switched to synthetic, the seals wouldnt soak up the synthetic. They started shrinking, and leaking like crazy. Thats why you'll be hard pressed to convince some HD riders to ever use synthetic oil.

There's also the issues with clutch plates. In a car, it doesnt matter because the clutch plates arent bathed in engine oil.....but in a motorcycle, they are. During the break-in period its important for the clutch plates to bed in. If they dont you'll have issues.

Actually... it is correct.

HKr1 · January 11th, 2010, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdavison

There's also the issues with clutch plates. In a car, it doesnt matter because the clutch plates arent bathed in engine oil.....but in a motorcycle, they are. During the break-in period its important for the clutch plates to bed in. If they dont you'll have issues.

Break in a clutch... ??? Where did you hear this?

rockNroll · January 11th, 2010, 09:58 AM

Here's a little page to read. We are an Amsoil dealer and before we started carrying Amsoil I used Mobil 1. I use Amsoil now because I get it wholesale. The wet clutch is addressed here.

http://www.smartsynthetics.com/artic...ical_facts.htm

Alex · January 11th, 2010, 10:09 AM

Right, it's my understanding the wet clutch issue isn't as much a synth vs. non-synth concern, it's a matter of whether those additional friction modifiers are put into the oil. Those friction modifiers help improve fuel economy in cars, but can cause clutches to behave funny on bikes.

Snake · January 11th, 2010, 10:57 AM

Is it correct to say whether you are using conventional or syn oil just make sure it is not fuel conserving oil?

Banzai · January 11th, 2010, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snake

Is it correct to say whether you are using conventional or syn oil just make sure it is not fuel conserving oil?

Generally speaking, yes. Fuel Conserving oils have large quantities of additives that are the friction modifiers that don't get along well with wet clutches.

rockNroll · January 11th, 2010, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snake

Is it correct to say whether you are using conventional or syn oil just make sure it is not fuel conserving oil?

Energy Conserving is on the bottom of the circle on the label.This is what you don't want.

Snake · January 11th, 2010, 04:24 PM

Thanks Rock, I'll look for the label.

poo poo · January 14th, 2010, 04:42 PM

or can i just drain as best as i can, and then start with synthetic? can i mix the two?

jonthechron · January 14th, 2010, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockNroll

You can run synthetic at 1 mile... all the talk about it being bad is hogwash. However! Using synthetic during your multi-oil-change break in period is kinda expensive.

synthetic helps prevent engine wear, this is exactly what you do not want during break in period

captlombardi · January 14th, 2010, 09:03 PM

i had the 600 mi service done at about 650 or so, no real idea if they used syn or regular. also got it changed around 3000, same deal. i think they stuck with regular unless i requested syn specifically because it would have been more expensive. regardless, no problems with the bike whatsoever.

rockNroll · January 15th, 2010, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonthechron

synthetic helps prevent engine wear, this is exactly what you do not want during break in period

I really lol'ed at that.

ninja250 · January 15th, 2010, 05:56 AM

Not a bad idea to do four oil changes within the first 1000.
I did myself. I think I have changed it six times in 1600 miles. Yesterday at 1600 on the nose. Now that she's mostly broken in, I'll probably wait until 3000mi to change it again.

Cost a bunch in oil changes but kept as much of that flake out of my engine as I could while breaking in the bike.

Will switch over to Synthetic on my next change.

Betlog · January 15th, 2010, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninja250

Not a bad idea to do four oil changes within the first 1000.
I did myself. I think I have changed it six times in 1600 miles. Yesterday at 1600 on the nose. Now that she's mostly broken in, I'll probably wait until 3000mi to change it again.

Cost a bunch in oil changes but kept as much of that flake out of my engine as I could while breaking in the bike.

Will switch over to Synthetic on my next change.

What miles did you do your changes during break-in?

HKr1 · January 15th, 2010, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninja250

Not a bad idea to do four oil changes within the first 1000.

Guess it's what ever makes ya feel better

January 9th, 2010, 05:27 PM	#1
Betlog ninjette.org guru Name: Dude!! Location: Southern California Join Date: Dec 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 250r Posts: 443	When to go synthetic When do you guys recommend I switch to synthetic? I have about 100 miles right now and I plan on doing the following: 200 - oil change with regular oil 400 - oil change with regular oil 600 - oil change with regular oil 1000 - oil change with synthetic Does that sound good? Or should I go part-synthetic on 1k miles?

January 9th, 2010, 05:35 PM	#3
BlueRaven ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Lil One Location: NB Canada Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): '09 Ninja 250 Black Posts: A lot.	U don't need to have that many oil changes before 1,000 miles. __________________________________________________ I'm not small, I'm fun sized

January 9th, 2010, 08:07 PM	#9
rockNroll . Name: rock Location: greenville, south carolina Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): black Posts: A lot.	You can run synthetic at 1 mile... all the talk about it being bad is hogwash. However! Using synthetic during your multi-oil-change break in period is kinda expensive. __________________________________________________ Always get a second opinion because most of these people are makin' this stuff up

January 10th, 2010, 04:21 PM	#12
BlueRaven ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Lil One Location: NB Canada Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): '09 Ninja 250 Black Posts: A lot.	I use K&N oil filters and they come with the o-rings so i change them everytime. A torque wrench is a must for almost everything u do on this bike. __________________________________________________ I'm not small, I'm fun sized

January 11th, 2010, 09:58 AM	#23
rockNroll . Name: rock Location: greenville, south carolina Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): black Posts: A lot.	Here's a little page to read. We are an Amsoil dealer and before we started carrying Amsoil I used Mobil 1. I use Amsoil now because I get it wholesale. The wet clutch is addressed here. http://www.smartsynthetics.com/artic...ical_facts.htm __________________________________________________ Always get a second opinion because most of these people are makin' this stuff up

January 9th, 2010, 05:30 PM	#2
Snake ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Rick Location: Alexandria, Louisiana Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 05 Blue Ninja 250 Posts: Too much. MOTY - 2017, MOTM - Jan '19, Oct '16, May '14	You can safely switch to synthetic oil after the break-in is over.

January 9th, 2010, 06:00 PM	#5
Samer ninjette.org guru Name: Samer Location: Jupiter, Florida Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja 250R SE Posts: 376	By the way, do you plan on replacing the crush washers each time? If you're changing the oil that many times with the same washer, that could be bad. I'd change it each time to be safe. I got my crush washers straight from the dealer. Ride safe and have fun!

January 9th, 2010, 06:38 PM	#6
Sailariel ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Alex Location: Belfast, ME Join Date: Jul 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Honda NT-700-V, formerly, Green 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.	Samer, What did Kawi charge for the washers? I have 8500 mi on my Ninja, run Rotella-T Synthetic, and have not changed crush washers. I use a torque wrench on the drain plug and filter plate. My oil changes are every 3000 mi. The drain plug has not leaked any oil to date. I changed to Synthetic after 1000 mi. and have had no problems---in fact my shifter operates a lot more smoothly with synthetic. As Blue Raven said, you don`t need to change oil that often. I changed with regular Kawasaki 10-40 at 100 mi and then changed to Synthetic at 1000 mi. After that, I change oil and filter every 3000 mi.

January 9th, 2010, 08:35 PM	#10
Snake ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Rick Location: Alexandria, Louisiana Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 05 Blue Ninja 250 Posts: Too much. MOTY - 2017, MOTM - Jan '19, Oct '16, May '14	I have 18,000 and have never changed out my crush washer with no leaks so far. Although I think during my next oil change it would be a good idea to change it. Cheap insurance.

January 10th, 2010, 04:11 PM	#11
Samer ninjette.org guru Name: Samer Location: Jupiter, Florida Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja 250R SE Posts: 376	Interesting feedback. I can't remember how much the crush washer cost, maybe 75 cents each or a dollar. For those who never changed it and didn't have any problems, Does it always stay stuck on the drain plug the whole time? If so, I can imagine that it tightens in the same location each time so it is okay, if it rotates relative to the bolt, that could be an issue I imagine. That thing is very soft. I know because I had a lot of trouble taking it off the bolt. That was my first ever oil change so I'm still learning. For sure, use a torque wrench every time regardless!

January 10th, 2010, 08:10 PM	#14
randomwalk101 self wrencher Name: john Location: houston Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 250r and 07 600r Posts: A lot.	There's a thing called an oil filter that filters out metal shavings Posted via Mobile Device

January 10th, 2010, 08:51 PM	#15
whylee ninjette.org member Name: Ken Location: Reno NV Join Date: Dec 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2 2009 Ninja 250's Honda VTX 1800 Posts: 40	I changed my oil at 50 miles and went with Mobil 1 full syn. Syn oil is fine from the start. I have done this with all my bikes and never a problem.

January 11th, 2010, 09:12 AM	#20
bdavison Wartown, USA Name: Bryan Location: Warner Robins, GA Join Date: Nov 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R SE, 2007 Ninja 650R, and assorted other bikes Posts: A lot.	RockNroll, sorry, but thats not entirely correct. All that "wait certain miles before switching stuff" started with the Harley Davidson engines. The seals in them would soak up the standard oil. Once they switched to synthetic, the seals wouldnt soak up the synthetic. They started shrinking, and leaking like crazy. Thats why you'll be hard pressed to convince some HD riders to ever use synthetic oil. There's also the issues with clutch plates. In a car, it doesnt matter because the clutch plates arent bathed in engine oil.....but in a motorcycle, they are. During the break-in period its important for the clutch plates to bed in. If they dont you'll have issues.

January 11th, 2010, 10:09 AM	#24
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	Right, it's my understanding the wet clutch issue isn't as much a synth vs. non-synth concern, it's a matter of whether those additional friction modifiers are put into the oil. Those friction modifiers help improve fuel economy in cars, but can cause clutches to behave funny on bikes. __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

January 11th, 2010, 10:57 AM	#25
Snake ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Rick Location: Alexandria, Louisiana Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 05 Blue Ninja 250 Posts: Too much. MOTY - 2017, MOTM - Jan '19, Oct '16, May '14	Is it correct to say whether you are using conventional or syn oil just make sure it is not fuel conserving oil?

January 11th, 2010, 04:24 PM	#28
Snake ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Rick Location: Alexandria, Louisiana Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 05 Blue Ninja 250 Posts: Too much. MOTY - 2017, MOTM - Jan '19, Oct '16, May '14	Thanks Rock, I'll look for the label.

January 14th, 2010, 04:42 PM	#29
poo poo kinda sorta noob Name: poo poo Location: DC Join Date: Dec 2009 Motorcycle(s): '03 and '08 Posts: 62	do i have to totally drain the oil to switch? or can i just drain as best as i can, and then start with synthetic? can i mix the two?

January 14th, 2010, 09:03 PM	#31
captlombardi ninjette.org member Name: Scott Location: KS Join Date: Jan 2010 Motorcycle(s): '09 EX250J, '01 CBR600F4i Posts: 53	i had the 600 mi service done at about 650 or so, no real idea if they used syn or regular. also got it changed around 3000, same deal. i think they stuck with regular unless i requested syn specifically because it would have been more expensive. regardless, no problems with the bike whatsoever.

January 15th, 2010, 05:56 AM	#33
ninja250 You are sleeping Name: Casey Location: LMFAO!!! Join Date: Nov 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2 Posts: A lot.	Not a bad idea to do four oil changes within the first 1000. I did myself. I think I have changed it six times in 1600 miles. Yesterday at 1600 on the nose. Now that she's mostly broken in, I'll probably wait until 3000mi to change it again. Cost a bunch in oil changes but kept as much of that flake out of my engine as I could while breaking in the bike. Will switch over to Synthetic on my next change.

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