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Old September 11th, 2008, 09:55 AM   #1
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Yamaha YZF-R2504 - Ninjette competition?

There are more and more rumors coming out about Yamaha introducing a 250cc sportbike. I'd welcome it, if for no other reason to keep Kawasaki honest about pricing and to push for aftermarket developments in the 250 class. I've attached pics of the rumored 250 as well as yamaha's current R125 (not available in the US).
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File Type: jpg 298.jpg (79.7 KB, 83 views)
File Type: jpg yamaha_yzfr125.jpg (53.2 KB, 111 views)
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Old September 11th, 2008, 09:37 PM   #2
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I would really like to see something like this come along, especially if it had a tiny 4 cyl. A small twin can be quite entertaining as we all know. My prediction is if it's a 4cyl it will probably be very high priced, over 6k for sure. Yamaha's wr250x is overpriced for a tubby underpowered "motard", does not even have the actual WR 5 valve motor. Yamaha's have allways cost more than Kawasaki's anyway.

About that 125.. I had the chance to ride a Honda CBR150 a while back, as it turns out the production of those bikes is Thailand.. It was a liquid cooled 4 valve single, that was neat but it was stuffed into a steel frame, would have been nice to see it with an alluminum frame with USD forks, however it was entertaining (did a loop to the coast and back) overall impression.. cheap and 2nd tier Honda, I think I have a pic. It would be great if the Japanese would sell the actual "good" 250s in this country since a 125 two stroke is out of the question..

Here's the CBR150
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Old September 21st, 2008, 05:40 PM   #3
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EX250R Competitiom

I have a very close friend who has been in the MC business since 1950. He was a Triumph and NSU dealer. I worked for him in 1958 and got my first bike from him--a 1956 NSU Special Max 250. He became a Yamaha dealer when Yamaha first came to the US--In fact he still sells Yamaha and Triumph among other stuff. He tried out my Ninja last week and lamented the fact that Yamaha and others had really missed the boat. He feels that the US is ready for a performance 250 for urban travel. This is a guy who knows motorcycles and the market. Back in the late 50`s his best selling bikes were the 200cc Triumph Cub and the 250cc NSU for those of us who used motorcycles for trnsportation. With the escalsting costs of energy and concerns for the environment, this class of people (and market) wil re-emerge. Kawasaki was on the mark since 1986 and is ahead of everybody else in the 250cc market. In just urban transportation, the Honda Rebel is a good buy. It does, however fall short in long distance highway travel. One needs to go to a 400 to get that feature. In 1971 I had a Norton, Jawa, CZ, Benelli dealership. The Norton 750 sold well. Jawa 360 with its semi-automatic transmission did not do well. The 250 CZ sold well because it domonated the off road racing scene until Bultaco came on the scene. The Benelli 250 was a total bust. In those days I rode a white Jawa 360, pinstriped in black, with a matching Jawa sidecar--wish I had that machine today--a sweet ride. Things are changing, and those of us who had the insight to get a well founded 250 are the winners. Sorry to have rambled on--comes with age.
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Old September 21st, 2008, 07:26 PM   #4
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good stuff Alex, the other manufacturers have indeed missed the boat, there is plenty of fun to be had in the 250 arena
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Old July 7th, 2009, 11:44 PM   #5
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I stumbled upon the YZF R250 rumors and just had to resurrect this thread.

Anyone heard anything new about it? I love the styling of their 125, and if they drop a 250cc into it I'd be quite giddy.
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Old July 8th, 2009, 05:26 AM   #6
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I want to see Kawasaki make an updated 250R, a 250RT so to speak. The "T" for track.

Sporting the same motor, the same transmission, but fully adjustable front fork, fully adjustable rear setup, and an aluminum frame. I'd be on that bus faster than anything else. The speed gained from weight reduction and the joy of being able to adjust your "stock" suspension would be great.
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Old July 8th, 2009, 05:38 AM   #7
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'T' for turbo!

What other 250cc bike are offered in the US? Over here, the 250R's main competition is the Hyosung GT250R which was Australia's highest selling 250cc motorbike before the 2008 Ninja 250R came out.
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Old July 8th, 2009, 05:41 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailariel View Post
I have a very close friend who has been in the MC business since 1950. He was a Triumph and NSU dealer. I worked for him in 1958 and got my first bike from him--a 1956 NSU Special Max 250. He became a Yamaha dealer when Yamaha first came to the US--In fact he still sells Yamaha and Triumph among other stuff. He tried out my Ninja last week and lamented the fact that Yamaha and others had really missed the boat. He feels that the US is ready for a performance 250 for urban travel. This is a guy who knows motorcycles and the market. Back in the late 50`s his best selling bikes were the 200cc Triumph Cub and the 250cc NSU for those of us who used motorcycles for trnsportation. With the escalsting costs of energy and concerns for the environment, this class of people (and market) wil re-emerge. Kawasaki was on the mark since 1986 and is ahead of everybody else in the 250cc market. In just urban transportation, the Honda Rebel is a good buy. It does, however fall short in long distance highway travel. One needs to go to a 400 to get that feature. In 1971 I had a Norton, Jawa, CZ, Benelli dealership. The Norton 750 sold well. Jawa 360 with its semi-automatic transmission did not do well. The 250 CZ sold well because it domonated the off road racing scene until Bultaco came on the scene. The Benelli 250 was a total bust. In those days I rode a white Jawa 360, pinstriped in black, with a matching Jawa sidecar--wish I had that machine today--a sweet ride. Things are changing, and those of us who had the insight to get a well founded 250 are the winners. Sorry to have rambled on--comes with age.

not rambling at all. cool to hear about the old stuff. i have a friend with a warehouse that has nortons, ducs, triumphs, bsa, and more. always cool to go back in time and see those bikes.
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Old July 8th, 2009, 05:52 AM   #9
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I as well welcome the competition from Yamaha. I believe that Honda needs to introduce a 250 to the North American market as well. A CBR250 would be great competition.
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Old July 8th, 2009, 07:57 AM   #10
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Unfortunately all we know is what we knew when that article came out. 2010 for Japan is the speculation. No official press release for anything. Nothing on the Japanese site about it... yet. I'd be interested in it, and I think it would be a smart move in general given the Ninja 250R's success and the countries all over the world where the majority of two-wheeled vehicles are 250cc and under, an "affordable" and practical sport bike is a wonderful attainment.
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Old July 8th, 2009, 08:08 AM   #11
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i thought honda was supposed to reintroduce the cbr250 soon
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Old July 8th, 2009, 08:10 AM   #12
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I don't know if Honda will but that would be great.
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Old July 8th, 2009, 08:36 AM   #13
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Give me a yami 250 4cyl making about 45 horse Fuel injected, adjustable suspension front and rear, an aluminum frame and twin rotors up front and Ill be all over it. Make it about $5250 and I will worship the Yamaha GOD of chioce.
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Old July 8th, 2009, 08:48 AM   #14
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I have serious doubts about anyone ever releasing a 4 cyl 250cc bike to the north american market (sorry to burst your bubble...im sad too ).

The market just isn't there to recoup the massive costs of manufacturing those crazy little 4 cyl engines. The only reason they ever existed before is because of the licensing system that used to exist in japan and in europe that limited riders to smaller sized motorcycles depending on their license and experience level. When that changed, the market for these bikes died.

I'd LOVE to have a little yammi 250, or a CBR250, but I may have to look to the grey market to fulfill those dreams.
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Old July 8th, 2009, 09:45 AM   #15
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This bike is all kinds of sexy, it's a shame we don't get more 250's over here. But hey, we got the CBR125R in Canada at least. I imagine there's room for every company to release MotoGP replicas of their bikes in the smaller displacements. You get great learning bikes that people would be proud to drive.
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Old July 8th, 2009, 10:05 AM   #16
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The CBR125R is a sexy bike that's why when i couldn't find a Ninja 250R i went looking for the CBR125R. There was 2 strikes against it that made me wait for my ninjette. The CBR125 can only go about 120km/hr and you can't lower it. It's as high if not higher than my ninjette and the Rebel 250 was out of the question cause of my back doesn't like to lean back. I just wish they would make a FI ninjette.
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Old July 8th, 2009, 10:09 AM   #17
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Yes lets hope that they come out with an FI Ninja 250 in 2010. If they do then I will trade my bike in for one. That is all I have been waiting on.
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Old July 8th, 2009, 10:16 AM   #18
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As I understand it, one of the driving forces pushing motorcycle manufacturers to fuel injection is that it's easier to get FI systems to meet California's increasingly restrictive clean air requirements than carbed engines, and that's a necessity if they're going to sell a particular model in CA.

It's also my understanding that California typically is less restrictive on smaller bikes, the cut-off being 270cc or so - meaning the incentive to develop fuel injection for a 250 may not be as great. I would be surprised if Kawasaki did a significant design change so soon after the 08, unless they were really forced to.

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Old July 8th, 2009, 02:48 PM   #19
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EFI, though typically giving better gas mileage and more HP, can be as troublesome as a carb setup on the current rides.

I would like to be able to hit the starter and ride off without having to mess with the choke though!
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Old July 8th, 2009, 03:09 PM   #20
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wow, that looks awesome. Definitely force Kawi to make upgrades sooner than every 20 years.
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Old July 8th, 2009, 06:19 PM   #21
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that definitely looks like a sweet bike, if it were out already, and with a similar price rage as our ninja, i would have very likely chosen the yamaha, however there are still a lot of factors involved such as availability, performance, but primarily in my case currently, the $$!

however, before i got the Ninja, and i did some research on 250s, i saw that in Japan they sell a Honda hornet 250, 4 cylinder, with a good 40 Hp, however its only available there, and its impossible to get it here in Indonesia, but then the new 250 ninja came out last year and it was even available here! so i fell in love!

if this yami comes loaded with an inline 4 cylinder 250 power plant~ i would love to see its performance, and most probably envy anyone having it around here xD

who knows maybe my gf can inherit the ninja in a couple years, and ill move up to a "bigger" bike! rofl~
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Old July 8th, 2009, 06:29 PM   #22
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The latest rumors I've heard have this R4 using a 250cc single, not a twin, and certainly not a four. If it does come to pass, it probably will be very similar the the one they are now using in those WR250R and WR250X machines. Peak rear wheel horsepower on those is in the mid 20's, right in line with our ninjette mill.
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Old July 8th, 2009, 07:10 PM   #23
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from the teaser image, it looks like there are at least 2 exhaust headers, but who knows, maybe they just took an R6 and dressed it up for the R4 photo shoot, lol

what looks nice is the rear swing-arm, has the look of the bigger sports bikes~

only time will tell just what Yamaha has in store for the 250 segment!

currently here in indonesia they have a 225cc air colled 1 cylinder road bike (Power: 19 PS / 8,000 RPM) that looks like this:


and a smaller 150cc liquid cooled 1 cylinder bike (Power: 11.10 kw (14.88 HP) / 8,500 rpm) that looks like this:


but yamaha doesnt have any full faring bikes here on the local market, so if they could get the R4 here.... that would be great to compete with the Kawasaki monopoly of the 250s sports bike!
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Old July 8th, 2009, 07:10 PM   #24
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The latest rumors I've heard have this R4 using a 250cc single, not a twin, and certainly not a four. If it does come to pass, it probably will be very similar the the one they are now using in those WR250R and WR250X machines. Peak rear wheel horsepower on those is in the mid 20's, right in line with our ninjette mill.
That makes more sense. The ONLY way they'd ever mass-produce a small displacement bike would be to re-use an existing powerplant and tweak it as required.

I wouldn't mind it if that thing was two stroke either....now THAT would be sweet
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Old July 8th, 2009, 07:36 PM   #25
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That makes more sense. The ONLY way they'd ever mass-produce a small displacement bike would be to re-use an existing powerplant and tweak it as required.

I wouldn't mind it if that thing was two stroke either....now THAT would be sweet
then try and get your hands on the Kawasaki Ninja - 150RR (Thailand production) its 2 stroke, and would be great for the track, similar to the Arpillia 125 i believe. i had the 150RR but sold it to buy the 250R cos it was too much work keeping a 2 stroke in perfect operational condition, and it got temperamental as soon as it needed a service~

the 250cc 2 stroke from aprillia that has like 60 Hp would be a sick bike to ride... i was drooling over that bike for a long long time, ha ha
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Old July 8th, 2009, 08:02 PM   #26
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then try and get your hands on the Kawasaki Ninja - 150RR (Thailand production) its 2 stroke, and would be great for the track, similar to the Arpillia 125 i believe. i had the 150RR but sold it to buy the 250R cos it was too much work keeping a 2 stroke in perfect operational condition, and it got temperamental as soon as it needed a service~

the 250cc 2 stroke from aprillia that has like 60 Hp would be a sick bike to ride... i was drooling over that bike for a long long time, ha ha
See that's not fair...you guys over there get wayyyyy more bikes than we do. Up here in Canada we don't get anything ....except that CBR125...but that thing's like a scooter haha.
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Old July 8th, 2009, 08:08 PM   #27
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Wayan,

Ever consider going into the gray market business?
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Old July 8th, 2009, 08:34 PM   #28
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Wayan,

Ever consider going into the gray market business?
i work for a furniture company, and we have shipped (and still are) a fair few containers over to Hawaii, and a lot to LAX, since we have a showroom there. but i don't think our showroom or our clients would be very happy to find a stack of motorbikes in the back of the container rather than their sofas or beds! ha ha...

how are the regulations over there in the states, are you allowed to use unregistered 2 stroke bikes like for track use only? oh, by the way, the Ninja 150RR is Euro 2 approved, has a 2 phase catalytic converter i believe. whats nice with the bike is once its warmed up (and kept in good condition) it does not spit out clouds of smoke. which i find terrible on other 2 stroke bikes that are still being used around here.



anyhow, anyone really interested in getting these 150s should try and get them directly from Thailand, i believe that they would cost a fair bit less than the +/- US$3000 that they do here. since we have rather high import taxes.

biggest trouble will be getting spare parts in the long run, he he...
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Old July 8th, 2009, 08:35 PM   #29
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Ill take one. Make it black. lol it sure looks like the front suspension is adjustable on this one here.
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Old July 8th, 2009, 08:44 PM   #30
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how are the regulations over there in the states, are you allowed to use unregistered 2 stroke bikes like for track use only? oh, by the way, the Ninja 150RR is Euro 2 approved, has a 2 phase catalytic converter i believe. whats nice with the bike is once its warmed up (and kept in good condition) it does not spit out clouds of smoke. which i find terrible on other 2 stroke bikes that are still being used around here.
I know a few years ago the engine size limit on 2 stroke motors were 90-100cc's. I don't know what the current regs are on strokes as they are even clamping down on lawn and garden tools with engines now.

That 150RR does look like a sweet bike!
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Old July 8th, 2009, 09:02 PM   #31
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the only time id trade the 250 in for the 150 would maybe be for the track, and even then i don't know for sure, since i haven't even been on a track in my life. since we DON'T HAVE ANY HERE!! WAAAAaaa

but ya, i believe the 150 would be more agile, faster, and funner on a track compared to the 250s. it weighs quite a lot less, and 2 stroke engines never seem go run out of OUPHF!

here are the specs:

Engine Type : 2-Stroke,crankcase reedvalve,SuperKIPS,HSAS
Diameter x Langkah : 59,0 x 54,4mm
cooling: liquid cooled
number of cylinder and size: one & 148cc
compression : 6,8 : 1
max power : 22,1 KW ( 30,1 PS ) / 10.500 RPM
Max Torque : 21,6 Nm / 9.000 RPM
Karburator : Mikuni VM 28
Starter : Kick (no electric starter)
Gears : 6 speed, constant mesh, return shift
Tipe system reduksi primer : Gear
Reduction Ratio : 3,272 ( 72/22 )
Clutch: Wet, multi disc
Gear Ratio: Ke-1 2.700 ( 27/10 )
Ke-2 1.706 ( 29/17 )
Ke-3 1.300 ( 26/20 )
Ke-4 1.090 ( 24/22 )
Ke-5 0.952 ( 20/21 )
Ke-6 0.863 ( 19/22 )
final drive : Chain drive
Reduction Ratio : 3.000 ( 42/14 )
Overall Drive Ratio: 8.479 @ top gear
Oli system: Oil Injection
2T Oli Capacity: 1 liter
Transmission/engine Oli : 0,87 liter
Exhaust / Muffler : Catalic Converter
Coolant Capacity: 1,3 liter
Front suspension: Telescopic Fork Suspension
Back suspension: Monoshock Suspension
Front Brake : Disk brakeTwin Pot
Back Brake : Disk BrakeTwin Pot
Front wheel : 90/90-17 49S Tube-type
Back Wheel : 110/80-17 57S Tube-type
Total size : 1975mm x 719mm x 1090mm
Seat Height : 780mm
wheel distance : 1.305mm
ground Clearence: 145mm
Weight : 124,5 kg
Fuel Capacity : 10,8 liter
Battery : 12 V 4 Ah

uhm.. had to translate all of that, lol should make sense tho, only a matter of converting the metric dimensions for you Americans, he he
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Old July 9th, 2009, 12:08 AM   #32
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Weight : 124,5 kg
Wow really? So if thats either wet or dry weight, it has the 250 beat by at least 80-100lbs, wet specs for 250 is around 149.6 kg!

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Old July 9th, 2009, 12:18 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustler753 View Post
Wow really? So if thats either wet or dry weight, it has the 250 beat by at least 80-100lbs, wet specs for 250 is around 149.6 kg!



Screw that jazz
i think that's dry weight. but still its really noticeably lighter... when i have to get out of a tight parking spot (which is practically every parking spot on this island) i have a hell of a time to get the bike backing up, specially if its on a slight incline. on the 150, it was almost like pushing a scooter. he he

and ya, the kick start thing was something i definitely put into the "WTF" category box... i did buy the bike knowing it didn't have an electric starter, but i quickly grew tired of it. specially if i was at some traffic lights early in the morning on my way to work, and poufff.... it dies on me when the lights go green! -.-
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Old July 9th, 2009, 02:55 AM   #34
karlosdajackal
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Hi All,
First post alert don't have my ninja yet...

The Yamaha looks cool, but I can't imagine it having 4 cylinders, 1 or 2 makes sense. I think maybe 1 cylinder and they will try to sell it as 1/4 of the R1 engine, or an existing parallel twin that already fits and meets the requirements.

I don't think it will have 40hp, that's too much for most of the European regulations for beginner bikes unless the bike is really heavy, so beginners would not be able to buy it. In Ireland the system is if your 16 you can get a A1 license which means any bike 51-125cc, but nothing bigger even if you pass the test. You want a bigger bike, you have to get an A license and do the test on a bigger bike again. My buddy has a Yamaha dragstar 125cc and is currently wishing he had something bigger, not for more power, but so he could do the real bike test.

If your 18, you can get an A license which allows any bike "not exceeding 25kW (33bhp) or that they do not have power to weight ratio not exceeding 0.16kW/kg (0.212bhp/Kg)" and if you pass the test this restriction stays in place for 2 further years so really passing the test means same bike for 2 years but you can carry a passenger, don't have to wear a bright yellow vest with an L on it, and can use the motorways.

So basically if you have a 125 your stuck with them as you can't do a license test for the bigger bikes on a 125. If you have ninja 250 you are right on the limit of the A license and when you pass you are still right on the limit of the power you can have for the next 2 years. The power to weight thing is interesting though, you could get a small and heavy Harley and be under 0.16kW/kg.

I think most other euro countries are similar, the UK has a way to get directly to bigger bike though (I'm jealous of those guys ). Existing 250cc motors from like in the ybr250 are most likely to be in it, all the yamaha 250's i've seen have been single cylinder, if they create a new motor i guess they would go for a parallel twin. Honda only have off-road 250s. The ninja is about the only sports bike in the class, all the other 250s i can find are off-road bikes. No wonder the 250 is always out of stock!
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Old July 9th, 2009, 03:25 AM   #35
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Karl, welcome to the forum.

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Old July 9th, 2009, 08:14 PM   #36
Purspeed
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That Yamaha 250 probably ain't gonna happen here in the U.S. I hope it does, though.

It will be very pricey. Probably approaching the $8000.00 US figure.

That bike is above and beyond the Ninja 250r in so many ways, where do I begin. But, it was designed as a sportbike from the onset (in all fairness).
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Old July 9th, 2009, 08:27 PM   #37
wayanlam
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so your saying that Yamaha have built up a completely new bike from scratch for the 250? cos other ppl are just saying that it would most likely just be a 1 or max 2 cylinder engine that they already have off a previous bike~ maybe slightly tweaked.

somehow i see the point in putting out a bike in the 250 class that is top in its class (bragging rights?), but i think people would have a hard time choosing to spend around 8 grand for a 250 (no matter how good it is) when you can get a 600cc bike for a similar price, and the "bigger is better" mentality is deeply imbeded into almost all of us . unless yamaha is trying to just target avid 250cc 4 stroke racers, lol.
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Old July 9th, 2009, 08:38 PM   #38
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stick an fzr 250 motor in the 125 chassis... not really building a whole new bike... parts bin engineering.

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/mod...zr250%2086.htm
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Old July 9th, 2009, 08:48 PM   #39
sombo
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You all do realize that Kawasaki doesn't need to do any research and development for FI on the 250 right? They've had FI on it in Europe for years and still do on the 08 and 09 models. They had no choice but to go with FI for Europe because of the higher emissions standards (yes they have higher standards then the US which is actually one of the lowest of the major countries). They keep it carbed in the states because they said that US buyers biggest concern for the bike was cost and this kept the cost down.

All they have to do it just let the FI model they already have come to the states. If you don't believe me check out the Kawasaki UK site.

Fuel system Fuel injection: ø28 mm x 2 (Keihin)Dual
throttle valves



Also in answer to miks' post about other 250's in the states. They also have the Hyosung 250gt here as well. It's also sold as a United Motors bike. Either way it's sold it's not very popular here because of it's piss poor quality in comparison to the big 4. The only other 250's here are weak rather slow cruisers or standards from the other 3 of the big 4. Not even Kawasaki respects the US small bike market all that much. Even Canada got the ZZR250 whereas the states got denied it.
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Old July 9th, 2009, 08:53 PM   #40
miks
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Hyosung has got a pretty bad reputation here too. But apparently, their newer models (08-09) have much better build quality.

But back on topic, I would love to see the Yama R250 over here, even though it would make it harder for me to decide what bike I'm going to get in the near future.
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