lowsided yesterday.. no gear =(

[nickadolph]

Dont know if you got it taken care of yet, but when I had rash on my arm I just cut the end of a tube sock off and slipped it on my arm.

P.S. If you do this dont use a sock with a lot of fuzzy stuff inside cause it will stick to your wounds as they heal (ask how I know).

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by "A"

Following too close sounded like your mistake. 'a car length behind' as you said, allow you less than 12-14 ft. of following distance, which is less than the distance you need to stop from 25 mph to 0 mph.
Allow more following distance, and look for ways out of impact instead of grabbing a fistful of brakes when you 1st spot trouble. Combination of steering and braking at the same time is what did you in. Brake reduce your available traction, turning direction require more available traction.. likelihood of doom is high when you combine the two.

maybe you didn't read what i wrote fully, there was noone in front of me, the car distance was how far the car was to the left of me that slammed on their brakes. there was also a wall to the right with no space to escape. getting to the far right of the right lane (where i was) and braking seemed to be the only option and i was still hit when the car to my left cranked the wheel to the right. maybe you can revise your suggestion on how you would have avoided it? maybe you might suggest if i was full gun off the line and maintained myself in front? the road conditions there weren't really appropriate, not the best asphalt so i'm not sure that would be a good idea.

one more question which i'm not sure has been answered, how much gear do you wear? i'm not talking about a sandwich run, but when going cross country for example.

Originally Posted by "A"

Sounds to me like you should drink water more often, if you already have your kidneys fail, you should take care of your health, too.
I may be wrong about 24 hr time frame, but I'm not dumb enough to find out with my own body. I live an active lifestyle, I drink water whether I need it or not, but helmet is optional for my lifestyle, especially in the shower.

no kidding. it was an extreme circumstance. allergic reaction caused me to throw up or heave about every few minutes which made it impossible for me to keep anything down, not to mention water (which i did try to drink) and no doctors (which means no possibility of IVs) around until we got back.

[alex.s]

"a", i guess what i'm trying to say here is that when you make comments like "gear is optional" and "gear makes people more willing to take risks" it sounds like you're encouraging people to ride without gear. obviously you ride with gear. so it makes me wonder why you would encourage such a thing, if you actually are?

like you agreed with, you can't prevent all accidents, so why would you say it's ok to take the chance of losing your skin when you can prevent it? if that's not what you're saying, what are you saying? please, enlighten us.

[Honko]

It's always hilarious to read/hear what people have to say to try and justify why they ride without gear with reasoning besides "I just don't feel like it".

[adri99an]

Originally Posted by Honko

It's always hilarious to read/hear what people have to say to try and justify why they ride without gear with reasoning besides "I just don't feel like it".

SSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

alex and "A" are having a great debate!

["A"]

Originally Posted by alex.s

maybe you didn't read what i wrote fully, there was noone in front of me, the car distance was how far the car was to the left of me that slammed on their brakes. there was also a wall to the right with no space to escape. getting to the far right of the right lane (where i was) and braking seemed to be the only option and i was still hit when the car to my left cranked the wheel to the right. maybe you can revise your suggestion on how you would have avoided it? maybe you might suggest if i was full gun off the line and maintained myself in front? the road conditions there weren't really appropriate, not the best asphalt so i'm not sure that would be a good idea.

Those were your words:

Originally Posted by alex.s

i was behind him by about a car length

Does that mean there were no car in front of you?
Are you changing your story as you go?
Are you sure you were in the right state of mind to remember everything that happened?
Maybe you should just post the police report here.

Originally Posted by alex.s

one more question which i'm not sure has been answered, how much gear do you wear? i'm not talking about a sandwich run, but when going cross country for example.

How much gear I wear depends on the ride that I'm doing, coast to coast ride that is non-stop will require different gear than taking my time visiting friends & family.

Originally Posted by alex.s

no kidding. it was an extreme circumstance. allergic reaction caused me to throw up or heave about every few minutes which made it impossible for me to keep anything down, not to mention water (which i did try to drink) and no doctors (which means no possibility of IVs) around until we got back.

Sounds like you don't know your body very well and allowed yourself to become in contact with whatever you're allergic to.

Originally Posted by alex.s

"a", i guess what i'm trying to say here is that when you make comments like "gear is optional" and "gear makes people more willing to take risks" it sounds like you're encouraging people to ride without gear. obviously you ride with gear. so it makes me wonder why you would encourage such a thing, if you actually are?

Is that your opinion or is that a fact?

I ride with gear when I feel the need to,

I ride without gear when I know I do not take unnecessary risks and be cautious of my surroundings.

I don't advocate riding without gear, but I don't badger people who make their choice not to wear gear neither.

I don't like self-righteous people who think their way is the only way.

I state what I do, what works for me and let people decide for themselves what they should do.

Originally Posted by alex.s

like you agreed with, you can't prevent all accidents, so why would you say it's ok to take the chance of losing your skin when you can prevent it? if that's not what you're saying, what are you saying? please, enlighten us.

I never said I could prevent all accident, that's the last draw; you're on the ignore list now.

[adri99an]

Originally Posted by "A"

Those were your words:

Does that mean there were no car in front of you?
Are you changing your story as you go?
Are you sure you were in the right state of mind to remember everything that happened?
Maybe you should just post the police report here.



How much gear I wear depends on the ride that I'm doing, coast to coast ride that is non-stop will require different gear than taking my time visiting friends & family.




Sounds like you don't know your body very well and allowed yourself to become in contact with whatever you're allergic to.




Is that your opinion or is that a fact?

I ride with gear when I feel the need to,

I ride without gear when I know I do not take unnecessary risks and be cautious of my surroundings.

I don't advocate riding without gear, but I don't badger people who make their choice not to wear gear neither.

I don't like self-righteous people who think their way is the only way.

I state what I do, what works for me and let people decide for themselves what they should do.



I never said I could prevent all accident, that's the last draw; you're on the ignore list now.

alex..... I think "A" just sucked the blood out of you.....

[alex.s]

he sure sucked something out of me

[adri99an]

I bet it was quick since you're on the throttle FAST

["A"]

Originally Posted by alex.s

he sure sucked something out of me

When you can't debate, change topic to something totally unrelated.
Good sign of your intelligence.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by "A"

When you can't debate, change topic to something totally unrelated.
Good sign of your intelligence.

oh thats funny, i had thought you "ignored me"? sure sign of intelligence to refuse to listen to someone you disagree with.

maybe if you would actually read what i said originally you would see what i wrote.

[adri99an]

I'm trolling

[mike]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

+1

Stupid instructor must ride a HD.

+1

Don't you know? Harleys have an aura of invincibility!

[Honko]

Originally Posted by adri99an

SSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

alex and "A" are having a great debate!

OH! ....carry on.....I didn't say anything....

[Azhyen]

I'm glad you lived to tell the tale. I'm only MOTGATT and wouldn't go any less. My brother is part of a "stunters" mc and well, let's just say they don't have the same type of policy. I wished my brother would wise up, but he's dumb like that.

[Suave]

Originally Posted by drsketch

they sound like idiots.

They told us jeans would be good enough protection for a crash... my cousin said otherwise when they were picking denim out of his melted ass... The MSF course is very biased when it comes to gear. We spent less than 10 minutes talking about it. They said buy a jacket for winter because it's cold and buy a helmet bc it is illegal to not have one. Idiots indeed.

Sorry to hear about your crash man, just don't be like my buddy and keep hoping back on with no gear. You are better off betting you'll crash again, so prepare for it, wear that gear you spent your hard-earned cash on!

Glad to hear you are ok though, have a speedy recovery sir!

[Suave]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i'm sorry that you feel gear makes people ride recklessly. i have another understanding of it.

what's the definition of the word "accident"? do you honestly believe being cautious means you have 100% control over your situation? never seen black ice? how about freak mechanical failures? how about a car with a blowout flying across the road from the other lane? what about blind intersections and drunken speeding red-light runners? never experienced it? i have. luckily i was in a van when we were hit from a blind intersection by a truck with a drunk driver doing 80mph in a 35 zone through a red light. since then i will never take for granted the FACT that you do not control your environment, you respond to it. do you really think that because you're cautious you can prevent every situation that will lead to a downed rider? even if you're an extremely skilled rider and can respond to most situations extremely well, you can't respond to every situation perfectly. there will always be something waiting for you.

if you believe that there is a chance you can go down, why would you put your skin and life on the line by not protecting yourself? or is it that you don't believe there's a chance because you're "too good of a rider to be involved in an accident"?

show me a rider with more than 100k miles on 2-wheels who has not been in some form of an accident. please. i would genuinely love to see it and i have many questions for them.


as to you saying my analogy is invalid. you do have the option of not drinking water, just like you have the option of not wearing gear. the point that i was making is that eventually, both will kill you.

He didn't say gear makes people ride more recklessly, he said more gear makes people more willing to take risks. there is a difference, recklessness is without a care to results or consequences, whereas when you take a risk you understand the risk involved. When people get a lot of gear they sometimes operate on the logic that since they are protected, now they can take risks because the risk of injury is worth the thrill if nothing happens. I've had friends tell me that they want to get a one-piece leather, boots, and an expensive helmet before they do the US129 dragon because it is too unsafe to do it without that stuff (do I agree with logic? no.), that is assessing a risk and taking it. If they just did the dragon and were driving crazy under the impression that nothing will happen bc they don't care to think about it, that would be reckless.

Just sayin', just sounds like you are putting words in people's mouths.

I think the idea A is presenting here is that one would rather ride passenger seat gearless with a cautious person driving, rather than having full gear with a risky person driving. Gear will only protect you so much, one of my friends is an EMT and he told me when I got my bike that out of all the motorcycle accidents he's come across, a helmet only saved one person over 60mph; unless you wanna wear one of these, http://images.motorcycle-superstore....Neck-Brace.jpg, it wont make too much difference whether you have a helmet on or not because the impact is gonna shatter your C-spine into pieces; and if that happens and by the grace of God you are not dead, you will be paralyzed for the rest of your life. Btw he has been an EMT ever since I was a little kid. So i'm sure he's seen his fair share of motorcyclist accidents.

You have true, valid points Alex, that doesn't mean that A is wrong though. Same goes to A. But that is just my opinion I suppose

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Suave

He didn't say gear makes people ride more recklessly, he said more gear makes people more willing to take risks. there is a difference, recklessness is without a care to results or consequences, whereas when you take a risk you understand the risk involved. When people get a lot of gear they sometimes operate on the logic that since they are protected, now they can take risks because the risk of injury is worth the thrill if nothing happens. I've had friends tell me that they want to get a one-piece leather, boots, and an expensive helmet before they do the US129 dragon because it is too unsafe to do it without that stuff (do I agree with logic? no.), that is assessing a risk and taking it. If they just did the dragon and were driving crazy under the impression that nothing will happen bc they don't care to think about it, that would be reckless.

po-tay-to, po-ta-toe.

the fact is we're talking about two seperate things;
a) taking risky maneuvers on a motorcycle and,
b) trying to minimize reprecussions of an accident by wearing gear.

they're often times positively correlated, but the fact is, they are seperate issues. people drive dangerously with and without gear. but people will always reduce potential injuries they may encounter (whether or not they are taking risks) by wearing proper gear. you don't have to be taking risks to have someone fly through a blind red light. you don't have to be taking risks to have someone make a left hand turn into you. you don't have to be taking risks to have someone have a front left blowout and accidentally swerve into your lane on a single lane each-way highway. gear, however, will always help reduce injuries.

I think the idea A is presenting here is that one would rather ride passenger seat gearless with a cautious person driving, rather than having full gear with a risky person driving.

again- two seperate issues, how about wearing gear AND riding sanely? that way, you don't take risks AND if someone hits you and you can't avoid it, potential injuries are minimized. seems like it's a hard concept for some people to grasp?

Gear will only protect you so much, one of my friends is an EMT and he told me when I got my bike that out of all the motorcycle accidents he's come across, a helmet only saved one person over 60mph; unless you wanna wear one of these, http://images.motorcycle-superstore....Neck-Brace.jpg, it wont make too much difference whether you have a helmet on or not because the impact is gonna shatter your C-spine into pieces; and if that happens and by the grace of God you are not dead, you will be paralyzed for the rest of your life. Btw he has been an EMT ever since I was a little kid. So i'm sure he's seen his fair share of motorcyclist accidents.

interesting statistic your friend quotes... here's some real statistics:

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/809861.PDF <-- effectiveness of 0.37.

[Suave]

Originally Posted by alex.s

po-tay-to, po-ta-toe.

the fact is we're talking about two seperate things;
a) taking risky maneuvers on a motorcycle and,
b) trying to minimize reprecussions of an accident by wearing gear.

they're often times positively correlated, but the fact is, they are seperate issues. people drive dangerously with and without gear. but people will always reduce potential injuries they may encounter (whether or not they are taking risks) by wearing proper gear. you don't have to be taking risks to have someone fly through a blind red light. you don't have to be taking risks to have someone make a left hand turn into you. you don't have to be taking risks to have someone have a front left blowout and accidentally swerve into your lane on a single lane each-way highway. gear, however, will always help reduce injuries.




again- two seperate issues, how about wearing gear AND riding sanely? that way, you don't take risks AND if someone hits you and you can't avoid it, potential injuries are minimized. seems like it's a hard concept for some people to grasp?



interesting statistic your friend quotes... here's some real statistics:

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/809861.PDF <-- effectiveness of 0.37.

The issue I'm addressing is that there is truth in people taking more risks when they have gear to "protect" them; maybe you don't, maybe I don't, maybe A doesn't, but the fact is a lot of people feel that way. Especially a lot of adrenaline junkies out there who want to do stupid things and want to minimize the risk in doing it. The point being made in my post, is that between cautiousness and protective gear, you will be far better off paying attention and being cautious. I do both of those things, but if I had to put my life on one or the other, I think reasonable people are going to pick caution.

Does your DOT article mention any speed-specific crashes? Because I think I did. He didn't say in all his years being an EMT a helmet didn't help anybody, he just before cautioned me to always wear my helmet bc it will save my life. Following that we were talking about high speed accidents. I think somebody's first hand experience in roughly 20 years of scraping motorcyclists off the pavement qualifies him to share his advice and knowledge about the situation. As long as we are staying realistic, do you think that hardshell with Styrofoam and fabric lining is gonna do anything for your c-spine (neck and upper spine) when you slam into a car or pavement or anything at 60mph? GEAR WILL ONLY PROTECT YOU SO MUCH!!! I wear full gear everytime I leave the house, it may save my life, but it may not; don't rely on it, use your head and be cautious of whats going on around you.

If you wanna talk statistics, bud, you need to asses the boundaries of the study. The comment, "here are some real statistics" is true, but for someone who wants to cry, "two separate issues" it is kind of ironic you would throw me statistics that don't apply to only 60mph crashes and onward; especially since I said what will kill you at those speeds is a neck injury, i didnt say the helmet wouldnt protect your head, I said it wont make much of a difference. i think it is pretty safe to assume that a lot of that 37% is attributed to lower speed crashes and accidents, i think it would be safe to say that higher speeds will yield a lower percentage of survivors.

[Suave]

*boom* lawyer'd

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Suave

but if I had to put my life on one or the other, I think reasonable people are going to pick caution.

the point that i've been trying to make is that you don't have to put your life on one or the other.
you can always choose to wear gear whether or not you choose to drive recklessly or take risks.
if you break your spine in an accident, chances are you probably would not have a head in one piece if you weren't wearing a helmet in that same accident.
so you're right, its possible to still sustain fatal injuries while wearing gear.
however my point that gear will almost always reduce injuries still stands. there is no point not wearing gear, and there is no point suggesting to others that it's not a bad idea for them to do so. to do otherwise in my opinion (how ever "high and mighty" "A" thinks it is) is detrimental to the motorcycling community at large.

[Honko]

Originally Posted by alex.s

the point that i've been trying to make is that you don't have to put your life on one or the other.
you can always choose to wear gear whether or not you choose to drive recklessly or take risks.
if you break your spine in an accident, chances are you probably would not have a head in one piece if you weren't wearing a helmet in that same accident.
so you're right, its possible to still sustain fatal injuries while wearing gear.
however my point that gear will almost always reduce injuries still stands. there is no point not wearing gear, and there is no point suggesting to others that it's not a bad idea for them to do so. to do otherwise in my opinion (how ever "high and mighty" "A" thinks it is) is detrimental to the motorcycling community at large.

Alex, you should just stop trying lmao. What you're saying is just going completely over their heads.

["A"]

Originally Posted by Honko

Alex, you should just stop trying lmao. What you're saying is just going completely over their heads.

Not to mention delusional.

Your 'opinion' of 'motorcycling community at large' does not nearly describe the motorcycling community in the world.
In reality, majority of motorcycling community worldwide do not have motorcycles, traffic patterns nor roads that allow travel speeds that exceed much more than 50-60 kph.

Among the members of this forum, your opinion may be true, we all speed and likely have nicely paved roads that allow us to ride aggressively beyond our abilities. But do not assume that to be the rest of the world. Most motorcycle riders worldwide, can not afford to have a helmet let along ride ATGATT.

Of course, if you have never ridden your motorcycle or motorcycle travel outside of your own country, you would never know what 'motorcycling community at large' really consist of minority of riders who ride with helmet.

When common sense of riding/driving cautiously, following traffic laws and maintain a safe traveling distance according to your speed is out the window, of course you rely on wearing gear to 'survive' in case of an accident.
But accidents are not likely to occur in the first place if most people just do as mentioned. Gears only work when accidents occur.

IMO, that's like saying 'loud pipes save lives', imagine what paying attention and knowing how to avoid accidents would do?

BTW, I see "A" answered quite a few of Alex's questions, but Alex S have failed to answer questions about his own post/accident.. what's the deal?

[Honko]

Originally Posted by N Ja

Not to mention delusional.

Your 'opinion' of 'motorcycling community at large' does not nearly describe the motorcycling community in the world.
In reality, majority of motorcycling community worldwide do not have motorcycles, traffic patterns nor roads that allow travel speeds that exceed much more than 50-60 kph.

Among the members of this forum, your opinion may be true, we all speed and likely have nicely paved roads that allow us to ride aggressively beyond our abilities. But do not assume that to be the rest of the world. Most motorcycle riders worldwide, can not afford to have a helmet let along ride ATGATT.

Of course, if you have never ridden your motorcycle or motorcycle travel outside of your own country, you would never know what 'motorcycling community at large' really consist of minority of riders who ride with helmet.

When common sense of riding/driving cautiously, following traffic laws and maintain a safe traveling distance according to your speed is out the window, of course you rely on wearing gear to 'survive' in case of an accident.
But accidents are not likely to occur in the first place if most people just do as mentioned. Gears only work when accidents occur.

IMO, that's like saying 'loud pipes save lives', imagine what paying attention and knowing how to avoid accidents would do?

BTW, I see "A" answered quite a few of Alex's questions, but Alex S have failed to answer questions about his own post/accident.. what's the deal?

Thank you for reinforcing my opinion.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by N Ja

In reality, majority of motorcycling community worldwide do not have motorcycles

... what? are you refering to scooters? if so, the same still holds true. gear prevents injuries. you do not control other people's actions. i have seen PLENTY of scooter accidents. and you don't need to be going 100mph to get run over by a truck.

Originally Posted by N Ja

Among the members of this forum, your opinion may be true, we all speed and likely have nicely paved roads that allow us to ride aggressively beyond our abilities.

again! why is there this horrible misconception that you can't get in an accident if you're driving safely? let me caps and bold it in case you have trouble seeing, or are simply grazing the text.

ACCIDENTS HAPPEN. THEY AREN'T CALLED ACCIDENTS BECAUSE YOU INTENDED FOR IT TO HAPPEN. WEARING GEAR IS A PREVENTATIVE MEASURE TAKEN TO REDUCE INJURIES IN THE EVENT OF AN ACCIDENT

Originally Posted by N Ja

Of course, if you have never ridden your motorcycle or motorcycle travel outside of your own country, you would never know what 'motorcycling community at large' really consist of minority of riders who ride with helmet.

just because as you say the majority of riders in the world ride unprotected doesn't mean gear doesn't prevent injuries. if the majority of the world thought it was a great idea to rub dirt in their wounds, if you got a scrape, would you? if the rest of the world decided it was a great idea to stick a knife in your arm every day, would you? if the rest of the world decided it was a great idea to cut off your pinky toe, would you? if the rest of the world decided it was a great idea to put yourself in the position where you can easily be killed simply by falling... would you? why not take a simple precaution that saves an estimated 37% of people involved in fatal motorcycle crashes.
if you can't afford a helmet, how do you afford a motorcycle? or gas to put in that motorcycle?

Originally Posted by N Ja

BTW, I see "A" answered quite a few of Alex's questions, but Alex S have failed to answer questions about his own post/accident.. what's the deal?

not only did i answer his condescending questions, his questions didn't need to be asked in the first place, because if one were to actually read what i said originally you would see the information is already there. however if one simply grazes through looking only for what they feel reinforces their own opinion, they miss important parts like ... what actually happened?

or maybe you're talking about another question?

and you're right, i misspoke and shouldn't speak for other continents where the same thing still holds true, but let me rephrase;

wearing gear benefits the motorcycling community, and the perception of motorcyclists as being safe riders. at very least on the quarter of the planet that i live in.

better?


btw, loud pipes don't protect your head from smashing against the pavement. helmets do. if you don't understand that difference perhaps you should do some more research about gear.

[Powerlogix]

Were you wearing jeans when you had your accident?

["A"]

Originally Posted by alex.s

... what? are you refering to scooters? if so, the same still holds true. gear prevents injuries. you do not control other people's
actions. i have seen PLENTY of scooter accidents. and you don't need to be
going 100mph to get run over by a truck.

Scooters outnumber motorcycles worldwide, I'm considering most if not all
motorized 2-wheel vehicle operators, not just motorcyclists.
How many scooter accidents have you witnessed personally, really?
I'd like to know, give a number.. and how many of those accidents have
riders wearing full gear that avoided injuries?
How many sustained injuries from scooter accidents have you seen that are
worse than motorcycle accidents at 50 mph or above?

I've seen dozens of scooter accidents overseas during service, never a
casualty, most of them just dust themselves off and rode off within seconds,
didn't even check if their scooter suffer any damage, much less themselves.

Originally Posted by alex.s

again! why is there this horrible misconception that
you can't get in an accident if you're driving safely? let me caps and bold
it in case you have trouble seeing, or are simply grazing the text.

I never said that you can't get into an accident if you are driving safely,
you're putting 'words in my mouth', you should really try to stop doing
that.

Originally Posted by alex.s

ACCIDENTS HAPPEN. THEY AREN'T CALLED ACCIDENTS
BECAUSE YOU INTENDED FOR IT TO HAPPEN. WEARING GEAR IS A PREVENTATIVE
MEASURE TAKEN TO REDUCE INJURIES IN THE EVENT OF AN ACCIDENT

Maybe accidents just happen to you because you're not paying attention, not
following within safe distance or worse not knowing your machine's full capabilities to avoid accidents.
Wearing gear does not prevent accidents from happening, but being cautious, keeping safe distance, knowing your surroundings and how to control your vehicle at all times will help you avoid accidents.

Personally, being aware of my surroundings and knowing how to maneuver my bike gets me out of accidents every single day, with or without helmet or
gear.

Originally Posted by alex.s

just because as you say the majority of riders in the
world ride unprotected doesn't mean gear doesn't prevent injuries. if the
majority of the world thought it was a great idea to rub dirt in their
wounds, if you got a scrape, would you? if the rest of the world decided it
was a great idea to stick a knife in your arm every day, would you? if the
rest of the world decided it was a great idea to cut off your pinky toe,
would you? if the rest of the world decided it was a great idea to put
yourself in the position where you can easily be killed simply by falling...
would you? why not take a simple precaution that saves an estimated 37% of people involved in fatal motorcycle crashes.

I never said gear can not prevent injuries, you're 'putting words in my
mouth' again.
I said gear only work when you have an accident.
Incidents and statistics you present have not relation to topic nor sources
to back up your claims, lame.

Originally Posted by alex.s

if you can't afford a helmet, how do you afford a
motorcycle? or gas to put in that motorcycle?

This picture demonstrates quite well how you can afford a motorcycle without
a helmet:

Originally Posted by alex.s

not only did i answer his condescending questions, his
questions didn't need to be asked in the first place, because if one were to
actually read what i said originally you would see the information is
already there. however if one simply grazes through looking only for what
they feel reinforces their own opinion, they miss important parts like ...
what actually happened?

or maybe you're talking about another question?

These questions:

Originally Posted by "A"

Those were your words:

Does that mean there were no car in front of you?
Are you changing your story as you go?
Are you sure you were in the right state of mind to remember everything that
happened?
Maybe you should just post the police report here.

Can you answer these questions above?
What acctualy happened?
Did you mean you were not 'behind a car by a car length' as you said?

Originally Posted by alex.s

and you're right, i misspoke and shouldn't speak for
other continents where the same thing still holds true, but let me
rephrase;

wearing gear benefits the motorcycling community, and the perception of
motorcyclists as being safe riders. at very least on the quarter of the
planet that i live in.

better?

Of course, I'm right.

Your quarter of the planet think you are right even when you're not. How'
bout that for perception?

Your quarter of the planet also have little idea of what really goes on in
the rest of the world, live sheltered lives and consider how you function
the way the rest of the world functions, that's ignorance.

List some reasons why 'wearing gear benefits the motorcycling community'

If a rider rides like a maniac wearing full gear, does that rider benefits
the motorcycling community? or just another typical motorcyclist that people
seem to have a stigma of being dangerous motorcyclist?

Originally Posted by alex.s

btw, loud pipes don't protect your head from smashing
against the pavement. helmets do. if you don't understand that difference
perhaps you should do some more research about gear.

Loud pipes not only damage your hearing, which is in your head BTW, but others around you, even without any accidents.
I think you're the one that is not understanding the similarity, fail, again.

[adri99an]

I like riding motorcycles.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Xoulrath]

Originally Posted by adri99an

I like riding motorcycles.
Posted via Mobile Device

I second this statement.

[alex.s]

warning: graphic video contents:

Link to original page on YouTube.

as to your other comment about the questions asked about me getting hit by a car, like i said, if you would bother reading what i originally wrote you would know that there was noone in front, but rather the car was to my front in the lane to the left, about a car length ahead.

please, read before you make yourself look like an ass.

Originally Posted by N Ja

Scooters outnumber motorcycles worldwide, I'm considering most if not all
motorized 2-wheel vehicle operators, not just motorcyclists.
How many scooter accidents have you witnessed personally, really?
I'd like to know, give a number.. and how many of those accidents have
riders wearing full gear that avoided injuries?
How many sustained injuries from scooter accidents have you seen that are
worse than motorcycle accidents at 50 mph or above?

I've seen dozens of scooter accidents overseas during service, never a
casualty, most of them just dust themselves off and rode off within seconds,
didn't even check if their scooter suffer any damage, much less themselves.



I never said that you can't get into an accident if you are driving safely,
you're putting 'words in my mouth', you should really try to stop doing
that.



Maybe accidents just happen to you because you're not paying attention, not
following within safe distance or worse not knowing your machine's full capabilities to avoid accidents.
Wearing gear does not prevent accidents from happening, but being cautious, keeping safe distance, knowing your surroundings and how to control your vehicle at all times will help you avoid accidents.

Personally, being aware of my surroundings and knowing how to maneuver my bike gets me out of accidents every single day, with or without helmet or
gear.



I never said gear can not prevent injuries, you're 'putting words in my
mouth' again.
I said gear only work when you have an accident.
Incidents and statistics you present have not relation to topic nor sources
to back up your claims, lame.



This picture demonstrates quite well how you can afford a motorcycle without
a helmet:





These questions:


Can you answer these questions above?
What acctualy happened?
Did you mean you were not 'behind a car by a car length' as you said?



Of course, I'm right.

Your quarter of the planet think you are right even when you're not. How'
bout that for perception?

Your quarter of the planet also have little idea of what really goes on in
the rest of the world, live sheltered lives and consider how you function
the way the rest of the world functions, that's ignorance.

List some reasons why 'wearing gear benefits the motorcycling community'

If a rider rides like a maniac wearing full gear, does that rider benefits
the motorcycling community? or just another typical motorcyclist that people
seem to have a stigma of being dangerous motorcyclist?




Loud pipes not only damage your hearing, which is in your head BTW, but others around you, even without any accidents.
I think you're the one that is not understanding the similarity, fail, again.

[Suave]

Originally Posted by N Ja

Not to mention delusional.
Gears only work when accidents occur.

IMO, that's like saying 'loud pipes save lives', imagine what paying attention and knowing how to avoid accidents would do?

Don't waste your time, this logic means nothing Alex.

[Honko]

Originally Posted by Suave

Don't waste your time, this logic means nothing Alex.

And apparently the logic that accidents can occur at any time whether you want them to or not is also lost upon you guys.

[alex.s]

Natural selection will take it's course, i guess.

[wayanlam]

i havent read much of this thread, just too much to read! however....

Originally Posted by N Ja

I've seen dozens of scooter accidents overseas during service, never a
casualty, most of them just dust themselves off and rode off within seconds,
didn't even check if their scooter suffer any damage, much less themselves.

i totally and utterly dont agree with your observation there... its possible that its a coincidence that you only observed accidents that involved scooters where they were not hurt much.

i live in a country where the BIG majority of people ride scooters, and by big i mean possibly 150 million people, lol...

i hotestly dont see the difference between crashing a bike and a scooter. obviously someone driving a bigger bike, say these 250's and up. can reach higher speeds faster, but also often drive generally at faster speed than scooters, since its so stable and it feels safe.

as a comparison, when im driving 80~ km/h on my girlfriends scooter, it feels like when im doing 145~ km/h on the ninja. generally i drive faster on the ninja, mainly because it drives more stable and gives me the impression that its safe.

anyhow, back to the scooter thing. they did a survey here in Bali, which is an island inhabited by around 4 million people i think (plus the tourists). and they came up with quite some shocking numbers:

Beritabali.com has tracked vehicular accidents in Bali from March through May 2011. Based on data supplied by the Bali traffic police, in March, 248 people died, 54 suffered serious injuries and 248 were superficially wounded. In the following month of April, 244 people were killed, 54 severely injured and 227 suffered minor injuries. Then in May, 286 people died, 57 sustained serious injuries and 303 were slightly injured.

article here: http://www.balidiscovery.com/message...ge.asp?Id=7219

i would say about 80~90% of the people driving 2 wheel vehicles here drive scooters...

the fact that almost none wear protective clothes (most cant afford it which is true, since wages here are seriously small, but a lot of the ppl do wear thin jackets, hoodies, windbreakers, which in a low speed crash can help). it is obligatory to wear a helmet here, HOWEVER almost no one does them up, which pisses me of so much. almost every time i see an accident i see the person lying on one end of the road, and their helmet is somewhere totally different. oh, and on top of it, a lot of ppl dont bother to even wear helmets when they just drive around their village. again accidents can happen anywhere, and casualties happen that way.

on top of it, there is a misconception that scooters are "slow". that is totally false, ive seen modded scooters do almost 100mph. and regardless, you can easily die getting into an accident driving MUCH slower than that. specially when its an accident involving a car, truck, wall, tree, etc.

thats my 2 cents... and i agree with wearing as much protective gear as possible, although i dont wear full gear on the everyday basis myself tbh... which i always regret when i come off the bike, lol.

on the daily commute i wear gloves, armored jacket, and my latest helmet, a Nolan N103 N-Com. i always wear long pants, but not riding pants, just TOO hot here in the tropics, and i dont want to keep changing my pants, and uh.... Birkenstock, lol! too hot for shoes

however, when i go on a bike tour/ride, i always wear shoes, and also my knee protectors, that look something like this:



even with my normal gear, i get funny looks from most people, and if they get a chance to comment, usually they say "isnt it HOT in all the gear?" sigh~... to which i reply, "its 1000 times more bearable than road rash", lol

[DarkNinja52]

I still have scars from a 15mph parking lot lowside 2 years ago.... The last and only time I didn't wear my jacket...

Glad to hear you survived. Keep your head up and ATGATT

["A"]

Did you personally witness that accident?
You were in Taiwan at some point in your life?
Anyone can pull a video from Youtube and claim that you've been there and know what happened.

BTW, no amount of gear is going to save that rider from injury.

He wasn't paying attention of the car running a red light, the driver of the car was not paying attention to the red light,

Rider was likely to have been traveling at higher speed than the speed limit.

Combination of all that and more allowed the accident to occur, rider not wearing gear did not cause that accident.

Originally Posted by alex.s

as to your other comment about the questions asked about me getting hit by a car, like i said, if you would bother reading what i originally wrote you would know that there was noone in front, but rather the car was to my front in the lane to the left, about a car length ahead.

You were following too close to the vehicle in front or to the side of you, that's what I read.

Because you did not have full control of your vehicle that's why you had your accident.

Originally Posted by alex.s

please, read before you make yourself look like an ass.

I have no problem looking like an ass because I'm right, you're the one that's looking like a dumba$$ misinterpreting others' postings.

Originally Posted by alex.s

Natural selection will take it's course, i guess.

Definitely for you, if you do not value being caution as much as wearing gear. Ignore list you go.

[Honko]

Originally Posted by N Ja

Definitely for you, if you do not value being caution as much as wearing gear. Ignore list you go.

If you're going to call someone out for misinterpreting posts (when he wasn't actually doing), don't do the exact same thing in your own response.

[sombo]

Originally Posted by N Ja

You were following too close to the vehicle in front or to the side of you, that's what I read.

Because you did not have full control of your vehicle that's why you had your accident.

Apparently you have a hard time with both reading details and visualization. Picture this:

TWO lanes; he is in the RIGHT lane with NO ONE in front of him. To his right is a wall blocking any further movement to the right. To his left in the LEFT lane are two cars one behind the other. The first one brakes hard so that the second car that's in the LEFT lane jumps into the RIGHT lane right on top of him on his bike. He was completely in control of his bike at all times in the RIGHT lane. What he was not in control of were the idiots in the cars in the LEFT lane. The only innocent party here is him on his bike in the RIGHT lane, in complete control of his vehicle. The two cars in the LEFT lane are guilty of multiple counts of stupidity that lead to the accident: following too closely, sudden hard braking, lane shifting w/o looking or clearing blind spots. His only fault: being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I hope this helps clear things up a bit.

Originally Posted by N Ja

I have no problem looking like an ass because I'm right, you're the one that's looking like a dumba$$ misinterpreting others' postings.

Actually you are not right since you yourself are a victim of what you accused him of. You were not there, you didn't see it happen, you weren't involved, and yet you act like you have intimate knowledge of the incident and that it was him who was at fault. I suggest you read more closely next time and try working on your visualization skills so that you may avoid this from happening again in the future.

[Honko]

Originally Posted by sombo

I hope this helps clear things up a bit.

I hope by "clear things up" you mean "extrapolate whatever information out of what I posted to support your theory" because that's what's going to happen.

["A"]

Originally Posted by Suave

Don't waste your time, this logic means nothing Alex.

Originally Posted by Honko

If you're going to call someone out for misinterpreting posts (when he wasn't actually doing), don't do the exact same thing in your own response.

When logic is not comprehended by a person, I don't need to be logical when responding. I think you missed that in my sarcastic post.

Originally Posted by sombo

Actually you are not right since you yourself are a victim of what you accused him of. You were not there, you didn't see it happen, you weren't involved, and yet you act like you have intimate knowledge of the incident and that it was him who was at fault. I suggest you read more closely next time and try working on your visualization skills so that you may avoid this from happening again in the future.

Poor description on his part, I read that his own actions caused his accident by turning and braking at the same time, which lead to loosing control of his own vehicle.

In response to Wayanlam in Bali, I never said that scooters are slow.. but realistically how often do you get to travel 100 mph on a scooter in daily traffic of Bali?

With the population & traffic density of Bali, do you really need 50 mph to have casualties in traffic accidents (with or without gear)?