How Much To Tune A Ninja

Speedy3 · April 9th, 2017, 07:50 AM

Hello,

I come to you all with a very general, open-ended yet specific question. I recently got my project Ninja to moving. Valves adjusted, carbs cleaned, fuel lines changed, etc. Current air flow system is stock box with snorkel, stock carb jets (very confident last owner didn't change this), and a Leo slip on, with baffle. So, the only real modification to air flow is with the slip on - not much. I have my needs shimmed with two washers, and I can tell you it has taken about 3 turns of each mixture screw to get it where if it hangs it's only the slightest, and if it bogs it's only the slightest. Smooth roll one are good, but blipping is where you see hanging/bogging.

I realize these are two different, opposing symptoms. And I realize that 3 +/- 1/4 turns of the screws is more than the traditional, but with a bit more air flow, I suppose that could justify enriching. Further more, The idle adjuster may be somewhat of a crutch. I backed it all the way when I cleaned carbs and adjusted valves, but I can't find a standard distance it should be out. So I used that and the choke to keep it running and let t warm up, and then just backed off each until the choke was off and the idle adjuster was as far out as it could be before the rpm dipped below 1400-1500 Rpms.

I want to get this to the track, and I want to be done guessing, so I'm hoping to explain the service I want, and hear what you think/know it will cost:

I want my air/fuel tuned. I want professional hands on it to make sure they can diagnose the hang/bogging (because I only think I'm hearing it. Never had a small cc carb'ed bike so I don't know what to look/listen for). If I need different jets, different mixture, whatever. I guess in simpler words, I want to leave my bike at a shop (Richmond Superbike for me), and just say "get the fueling dialed in", and then pick it up when I know it will start with choke, and I know the engine is running at the proper fueling. Nothing specific, and I realize shops charge by the hour, but with a professional, should it be difficult to drop jets and adjust fueling to get it top notch?

I also want them to professionally adjust my manual CCT, but I doubt that would take them longer than 5 min.

Just curious if any of you have had experience outside the standard service, and have ever just dropped you bike off and said "make it better"

Abu_Mishary · April 10th, 2017, 06:43 PM

Not sure the price in the States, but a normal re-tuning service to get rid of the cut off in Malaysia is around US$100 to $US200, depending on the services that you are getting. Either to just re-tune your ECU or to have the racing mapping provided by the tuner.

Advisable to have a piggyback system for this.

Speedy3 · April 10th, 2017, 10:07 PM

I appreciate the feedback! I am curious if I would expect it to be more or less in terms of tuning a carb vs tubing the EFI version!

Abu_Mishary · April 10th, 2017, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedy3

I appreciate the feedback! I am curious if I would expect it to be more or less in terms of tuning a carb vs tubing the EFI version!

Not sure on dyno a carb since I have never done that.. as I mention, i am not sure on the price in the states besides Malaysia. But most likely the tuner would charge on either what you tune or cc of the bike.

For example, a tuner in Johore Malaysia charge equally around US$100 for woolich mapping tune + one time dyno, irregardless of your bike's cc. The price varies if you are using a piggyback system since different system will be used and piggyback units needs re-tuning approx. around 3 times to get the best settings.

If according to the Malaysian price, I would say that I would set aside US$250 for gas and remapping directly onto the OEM ECU or around US$500 if i am using a piggyback unit.

Maybe our users from US could shed a light on this.

Cheers!

VaFish · April 11th, 2017, 08:49 AM

I could easily see it taking a couple of hours of shop time to dyno tune a carbed bike.

I'd bet you are starting at around $200-$300.

Although here is a place that will do the Dyno runs for $60. Then it's up to you if you want to make changes yourself or have them do it.

http://raskcycle.com/service/dyno-qa.html

spent_too_much · April 11th, 2017, 09:23 AM

It sounds like you are well on your way.

Just a thought - is there a concensus, with your combo of mods, where the sweet spot is for the carb set up? For example, with X name exhaust, factory airbox - shim needles with 2 washers, 3 turns out. Why reinvent the wheel if you don't need to?

Speedy3 · April 11th, 2017, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spent_too_much

It sounds like you are well on your way.

Just a thought - is there a concensus, with your combo of mods, where the sweet spot is for the carb set up? For example, with X name exhaust, factory airbox - shim needles with 2 washers, 3 turns out. Why reinvent the wheel if you don't need to?

THIS. I have come across similar threads, but it is as if there is no real effort to determine anything. All of the different setups are SOOO different, and they mostly have different jet kits, which throws a whole other ball into the mix.

Idk, I'll take it in as soon as I can. I was just interested in seeing if anyone had done this before. I'm just surprised nobody is chiming in with a professional tune, if only because of all the track fairing bikes plastered all over the forum.

Bigballsofpaint · April 12th, 2017, 08:58 AM

Its because im not sure many people have it professionally tuned. Its more of a mad science. People will usually change 1 setting at a time and go for a test ride to see if its better or not. I got completely lucky. There is a thread on here with carb and mod settings and people list everything. Jet Kit, exhaust type, intake filter and airbox. People say it varies widely but if you look into enough theres at least a window you should be in for number of turns and size of needle. I put what i thought was the right needles in and my dyno looked fine.

It was "close enough", little studder in the mid range but i can live with that since the bike is never below 6k rpm unless im just moving from a stop. Made smooth power up top and AF Values were good so i left it.

Speedy3 · April 13th, 2017, 02:16 PM

I will search for that thread. Should a rider be in need of a jet kit though with nothing but a slip on in terms of modification?

allanoue · April 14th, 2017, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedy3

I will search for that thread. Should a rider be in need of a jet kit though with nothing but a slip on in terms of modification?

In terms of a difference from the stock pipe, no but you will get a performance boost with a jet kit regardless of having stock or slip on.

April 9th, 2017, 07:50 AM	#1
Speedy3 ninjette.org member Name: Kyle Location: Raleigh, NC Join Date: Jan 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Triumph Speed Triple (Blazing Orange); 2010 Nina 250r (Race Project) Posts: 97	How Much To Tune A Ninja Hello, I come to you all with a very general, open-ended yet specific question. I recently got my project Ninja to moving. Valves adjusted, carbs cleaned, fuel lines changed, etc. Current air flow system is stock box with snorkel, stock carb jets (very confident last owner didn't change this), and a Leo slip on, with baffle. So, the only real modification to air flow is with the slip on - not much. I have my needs shimmed with two washers, and I can tell you it has taken about 3 turns of each mixture screw to get it where if it hangs it's only the slightest, and if it bogs it's only the slightest. Smooth roll one are good, but blipping is where you see hanging/bogging. I realize these are two different, opposing symptoms. And I realize that 3 +/- 1/4 turns of the screws is more than the traditional, but with a bit more air flow, I suppose that could justify enriching. Further more, The idle adjuster may be somewhat of a crutch. I backed it all the way when I cleaned carbs and adjusted valves, but I can't find a standard distance it should be out. So I used that and the choke to keep it running and let t warm up, and then just backed off each until the choke was off and the idle adjuster was as far out as it could be before the rpm dipped below 1400-1500 Rpms. I want to get this to the track, and I want to be done guessing, so I'm hoping to explain the service I want, and hear what you think/know it will cost: I want my air/fuel tuned. I want professional hands on it to make sure they can diagnose the hang/bogging (because I only think I'm hearing it. Never had a small cc carb'ed bike so I don't know what to look/listen for). If I need different jets, different mixture, whatever. I guess in simpler words, I want to leave my bike at a shop (Richmond Superbike for me), and just say "get the fueling dialed in", and then pick it up when I know it will start with choke, and I know the engine is running at the proper fueling. Nothing specific, and I realize shops charge by the hour, but with a professional, should it be difficult to drop jets and adjust fueling to get it top notch? I also want them to professionally adjust my manual CCT, but I doubt that would take them longer than 5 min. Just curious if any of you have had experience outside the standard service, and have ever just dropped you bike off and said "make it better"

April 10th, 2017, 06:43 PM	#2
Abu_Mishary The Asian Caucasian Name: Abu Mishary Mohd Fairus Location: Malaysia Join Date: Jan 2016 Motorcycle(s): Kawasaki Ninja 250 SE 2015 (sold); Honda ADV160 (current) Posts: 796 MOTM - Jan '17	Not sure the price in the States, but a normal re-tuning service to get rid of the cut off in Malaysia is around US$100 to $US200, depending on the services that you are getting. Either to just re-tune your ECU or to have the racing mapping provided by the tuner. Advisable to have a piggyback system for this. __________________________________________________ Losing someone is not painful. They are a part of us all this while and will always be with us. But missing them is.

April 11th, 2017, 09:23 AM	#6
spent_too_much ninjette.org guru Name: Miguel Location: TN Join Date: Jan 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2000 EX-250; several other years of the same Posts: 460	It sounds like you are well on your way. Just a thought - is there a concensus, with your combo of mods, where the sweet spot is for the carb set up? For example, with X name exhaust, factory airbox - shim needles with 2 washers, 3 turns out. Why reinvent the wheel if you don't need to? __________________________________________________ ... can't stop updating the bike!

April 12th, 2017, 08:58 AM	#8
Bigballsofpaint ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Jay Location: CT Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2015 636 ABS - 69 Honda 305 Posts: A lot.	Its because im not sure many people have it professionally tuned. Its more of a mad science. People will usually change 1 setting at a time and go for a test ride to see if its better or not. I got completely lucky. There is a thread on here with carb and mod settings and people list everything. Jet Kit, exhaust type, intake filter and airbox. People say it varies widely but if you look into enough theres at least a window you should be in for number of turns and size of needle. I put what i thought was the right needles in and my dyno looked fine. It was "close enough", little studder in the mid range but i can live with that since the bike is never below 6k rpm unless im just moving from a stop. Made smooth power up top and AF Values were good so i left it. __________________________________________________ Current - 2015 30th Anniversary Ninja 636 ABS - 1969 Honda 305 Scrambler Previously - 2011 Ninja 1000, 2008 Ducati 848, 2011 Ninja 250 SE

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April 10th, 2017, 10:07 PM	#3
Speedy3 ninjette.org member Name: Kyle Location: Raleigh, NC Join Date: Jan 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Triumph Speed Triple (Blazing Orange); 2010 Nina 250r (Race Project) Posts: 97	I appreciate the feedback! I am curious if I would expect it to be more or less in terms of tuning a carb vs tubing the EFI version!

April 11th, 2017, 08:49 AM	#5
VaFish ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Tom Location: Northern Virginia Join Date: Jul 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2001 Ninja 250, 2019 Harley Ultra Classic, 2001 Suzuki SV650 Posts: A lot. MOTM - Jan '16	I could easily see it taking a couple of hours of shop time to dyno tune a carbed bike. I'd bet you are starting at around $200-$300. Although here is a place that will do the Dyno runs for $60. Then it's up to you if you want to make changes yourself or have them do it. http://raskcycle.com/service/dyno-qa.html

April 13th, 2017, 02:16 PM	#9
Speedy3 ninjette.org member Name: Kyle Location: Raleigh, NC Join Date: Jan 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Triumph Speed Triple (Blazing Orange); 2010 Nina 250r (Race Project) Posts: 97	I will search for that thread. Should a rider be in need of a jet kit though with nothing but a slip on in terms of modification?