How to pod?

[Eagle981]

I really want to get rid of the airbox/filter set up on my bike to make some more room to relocate some of the other bike components. I know a lot of people pod their carbs and I was wondering what kind of cost and work that entails. I searched the forums for a bit and didn't find anything really useful but my search terminology may have been poor. Any advise on the topic would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[Trailerboy531]

it involves removing the airbox (there's a DIY on that) and attaching the pod filters to the open connections on the carbs. It's quite easy.

[choneofakind]

Then you have to rejet.

Check out this write-up:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Rejetti...ng_pod_filters

[Jiggles]

Also, its pointless without a full exhaust and its loud

[Trailerboy531]

what they said.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Also, its pointless without a full exhaust and its loud

Didn't someone drill out some holes in the stock exhaust?

What constitutes a full exhaust?

[choneofakind]

Headers.

The diameter of the pipes on a full system are much larger than the diameter of the pipes on the stock system. It's also slightly different proportions.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Headers.

The diameter of the pipes on a full system are much larger than the diameter of the pipes on the stock system. It's also slightly different proportions.

Any reccommendations for someone pinching pennies?

[choneofakind]

Go on ebay and look for a used Muzzy or Kerker. I got my Muzzy used for about $125.

If that's still too many pennies (totally understandable), go open up the intake lid and play around with the jetting. You'll get a little better throttle response, a little better sound (not louder, but better tone) and you'll have a smoother engine from the improved jetting.

Don't drill holes in the exhaust. It doesn't sound rumbly like a glass-pack does, it just sounds shallow, very tin-y and a little louder. Not worth the time.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Go on ebay and look for a used Muzzy or Kerker. I got my Muzzy used for about $125.

If that's still too many pennies (totally understandable), go open up the intake lid and play around with the jetting. You'll get a little better throttle response, a little better sound (not louder, but better tone) and you'll have a smoother engine from the improved jetting.

Don't drill holes in the exhaust. It doesn't sound rumbly like a glass-pack does, it just sounds shallow, very tin-y and a little louder. Not worth the time.

Ok I do have pods and jets ready I've just been hesitant to put them on because I don't have an exhaust yet.

[choneofakind]

Once you have pods, taking the carbs off is a snap. Go ahead and install the pod and rejet if you want to. It will be faster once you get the exhaust, because you'll know what you're doing from doing it this time.

[fierostetz]

I did pods recently simply because installing/removing the carbs for rejetting takes way too long with the airbox in there. that being said, its largely not worth the noise, or the awkward performance when hit with a crosswind. If you're not going to modify extensively, and don't have a *fantastic* amount of patience and familiarity with rejetting, I'd stay away. I might wind up either building a set of side covers to cut down the amount of air they get (in crosswinds) or reinstall the airbox at some point...

[fierostetz]

also, painfully loud, even with earplugs.

[Trailerboy531]

painfully loud....?

stop riding straight pipe stuck up your ear.

[fierostetz]

halfway into a thousand mile ride I was just DONE and ready to trash the bike. It just got real old real fast. If you don't actually ride too far it probably isn't a big deal, but the pods are louder than my exhaust. Ride at elevation and you have to keep the throttle open more, and bam - earache despite plugs with a nrr of 33db. Loud. Lots of noise, no go.

[fierostetz]

really surprised the induction noise on the ninja 250 is so much louder than my FZ1, though the FZ1 idles along at the 250's top speed :P

[rickthefix]

if you don't get the jetting correct & it runs lean, you might "hole" your pistons

[smackenz]

should you expect mpg to vary? i would think so. how much drop off in mpg do you see after doing this?

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Chone, I'm guessing you would know the answer to this.

I put pods on my carbs a couple days ago with all else stock and it ran very lean and slow/stumbly.

I replaced the main jet and needles with factory pro clip position 3 and 110 main jets and now the bike won't start with choke or throttle, I have to hold the starter button down while I slowly pull the choke. After I get it started it refuses to take throttle as it will just die even with choke on. To get it going I have to use the choke to get the bike moving and shift up until my speed is fast enough to kill the choke and start using throttle....That is after I have warmed it up sitting... It has only started giving me problems but I think the weather is a bit colder today/yesterday.

The bike goes about 95 mph but I think I lost some pull because my wheelies are a little tougher now and I don't have to hang on as much (while going in a straight line) in the power band as I did stock..... Am I right to think I'm running rich and I need to change the main jets to a smaller size?

I'm running stock exhaust fyi.

I couldn't get the pilot jets out so I guess I'm leaving the stock ones in....

I'm also curious why they want 3 washers above the needle clip....I only put one in...

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

I replaced the main jet and needles with factory pro clip position 3 and 110 main jets and now the bike won't start with choke or throttle, I have to hold the starter button down while I slowly pull the choke. After I get it started it refuses to take throttle as it will just die even with choke on. To get it going I have to use the choke to get the bike moving and shift up until my speed is fast enough to kill the choke and start using throttle....That is after I have warmed it up sitting... It has only started giving me problems but I think the weather is a bit colder today/yesterday.

The bike goes about 95 mph but I think I lost some pull because my wheelies are a little tougher now and I don't have to hang on as much (while going in a straight line) in the power band as I did stock..... Am I right to think I'm running rich and I need to change the main jets to a smaller size?

I'm running stock exhaust fyi.

I couldn't get the pilot jets out so I guess I'm leaving the stock ones in....

I'm also curious why they want 3 washers above the needle clip....I only put one in...

Did you drill out the plugs on the idle mix screws? If not, you're running a little leaner at idle/start-up. Try turning those out 1/4 a turn (90 degrees) to help with starting. But fwiw, needing some choke isn't the end of the world.

110 on the mains might be a tad rich. Try a 108, see if it pulls better. Try a 112 just for kicks as well. Stick with the one that pulls best.

I think the washers above the needle are to keep the needle from bouncing around I think. IDK.

Try to only make one change at a time so you can be sure of what adjustments had what effect on the bike.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Did you drill out the plugs on the idle mix screws? If not, you're running a little leaner at idle/start-up. Try turning those out 1/4 a turn (90 degrees) to help with starting. But fwiw, needing some choke isn't the end of the world.

110 on the mains might be a tad rich. Try a 108, see if it pulls better. Try a 112 just for kicks as well. Stick with the one that pulls best.

I think the washers above the needle are to keep the needle from bouncing around I think. IDK.

Try to only make one change at a time so you can be sure of what adjustments had what effect on the bike.

Ok, I was planning on going a little bit leaner I just wasnt sure. The thing about the choke is that I can't just put the choke on and crank it like I used to, now the only way the bike will start is if I hold the starter button down while giving it steady choke....

I forget which size the stock main jets are but I'll check it out when I go out to work on it.

I did drill the idle mix caps out they're set at 2.5x out fyi...

[choneofakind]

Okay, you got the mix caps. Good.

Stock main jet size for a pregen is 105.

You adjusted mix screw to 2.5 turns. They're a touch less than that from the factory. When you turn the choke on the whole way, it adds a good bit of fuel. Since you turned them to 2.5 turns, you likely don't need as much extra fuel to fire because it's not as lean at idle as it was. Will it start if you set it to half choke and hit the starter?

I'm not that worried about the choke. Mine always took about 1/2 choke, and I always hit the starter and eased on the choke at the same time.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Okay, you got the mix caps. Good.

Stock main jet size for a pregen is 105.

You adjusted mix screw to 2.5 turns. They're a touch less than that from the factory. When you turn the choke on the whole way, it adds a good bit of fuel. Since you turned them to 2.5 turns, you likely don't need as much extra fuel to fire because it's not as lean at idle as it was. Will it start if you set it to half choke and hit the starter?

I'm not that worried about the choke. Mine always took about 1/2 choke, and I always hit the starter and eased on the choke at the same time.

Not a chance in hell it will start with 1/2 choke

I'm just curious why it won't start with either choke or throttle.... If it's too rich I would expect some throttle would help it....

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

Not a chance in hell it will start with 1/2 choke

I'm just curious why it won't start with either choke or throttle.... If it's too rich I would expect some throttle would help it....

Why did you install pods with a stock exhaust?

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Why did you install pods with a stock exhaust?

Dont have moneys for exhaust

and

F the airbox!!

[Jiggles]

Ok so, why did you install pods if you couldnt afford an exhaust?

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Ok so, why did you install pods if you couldnt afford an exhaust?

The bike runs better now it just gave me problems starting. Thats why.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

Not a chance in hell it will start with 1/2 choke

How much choke does it need when it actually does fire? 3/4? full? When you use this amount of choke to start it, where does it idle right away? Does it rocket to 4k or does it stick around 2000? Or is it lower than that.

When warmed, how does it idle? How does it react when you blip the throttle?

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

How much choke does it need when it actually does fire? 3/4? full? When you use this amount of choke to start it, where does it idle right away? Does it rocket to 4k or does it stick around 2000? Or is it lower than that.

When warmed, how does it idle? How does it react when you blip the throttle?

It likes to stay low, say 3k, until I apply full choke which it will then shoot up to 6 or 7k I believe.

When warmed up and choke is off it has no idle issues really. I blip the throttle and the needle jumps up instantly and falls down instantly, there is a tiny hang at the very end but I think thats normal.... I can set the idle to 400 rpm or 4k with the idle adjust knob....

[choneofakind]

How much choke does it need to fire?

Are you able to back off the choke a bit and keep it around 2500?

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

How much choke does it need to fire?

Are you able to back off the choke a bit and keep it around 2500?

It will start without any choke for a couple seconds and idle extremely low until it finally dies. It takes about 1/4 choke while holding the starter to get it to stay running

[choneofakind]

yeah, back those mix screws out. Try 1/4 turn and see if it's better or not.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

I put the 108s in and turned the idle mix screws 1/4 turn IN. I will post update later but I think you were recommending 1/4 richer right? I was thinking leaner....

[choneofakind]

I was thinking richer because you said it hung a bit at idle.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I was thinking richer because you said it hung a bit at idle.

Meh I'm not so sure it hung as much as it did stabilize. Out right now but unfortunately it decided to rain so no top speed runs tonight. Seems to pull less now at 7k on yet my wheelies are back to coming up quick.....seems contradicting since I clutch up at 10k

[choneofakind]

don't judge jetting by wheelies. Judge jetting by how it feels when you ride it. Do WOT runs to test the mains, start low and snap the throttle open to test the needle height. Then blip the throttle to test idle.

Do wheelies once the carbs are all done being tuned. ...and start searching ebay for a new clutch already

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

don't judge jetting by wheelies. Judge jetting by how it feels when you ride it. Do WOT runs to test the mains, start low and snap the throttle open to test the needle height. Then blip the throttle to test idle.

Do wheelies once the carbs are all done being tuned. ...and start searching ebay for a new clutch already

Wheelies like crap with the 110s, wheelies very nicely with 108s. The opposite applies to driving around.... I'd really like to have both since I do both equally. Tomorrow I'll check the top speed.....

I'll report more on starting it up tomorrow.

Edit: Is the needle height going to change the feel drastically?

[choneofakind]

I don't care about how it does wheelies. To do wheelies, you're using all kinds of different amounts of throttle. That is not a way to isolate variables and test jetting

To test jets, you use specific tests that allow you to isolate parts of the carburetor and feel if that part should be delivering more or less fuel. None of those tests involve wheelies.

Yes, needle height has a large effect on how it feels while riding. Most of your riding is done in the mid-throttle range, so you're going to notice that.

Once again, test the mains by doing WOT runs at high rpms. Pick the one that does best there. Needle height can be tested by starting at 3k in 2nd gear and snapping the throttle open. As the slides open slowly, you want smooth acceleration all the way up. You can also test needle height by doing lots of gradual throttle changes on and off the throttle anywhere from 5k-10k.

As a general rule: surging/hesitating means it's lean, bogging or feeling soggy means it's rich. If two jets feel identical, pick the bigger one.

Only make one change at a time and focus only on one aspect of how the bike performes at a time. So for main jet testing, only worry about WOT at the top end. For needles, only worry about mid-throttle rolling on and off. For the idle mix only worry about how it responds to blips.

Wheelies are no where in there. Stop trying to diagnose your jetting based on wheelies.

http://www.factorypro.com/tech_tunin...m_engines.html

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Runs too lean in the high band. Top speed ~80 mph. Reluctant to put the 112s in.....will my bike even run lol.

Idle is fine.....Starts up easier, no choke required really....

Chone: Wheelies better than 110s

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

Runs too lean in the high band. Top speed ~80 mph. Reluctant to put the 112s in.....will my bike even run lol.

So that's with 108's and it just dies at the top? Go bigger. Yes it will run. Try the 110's and then the 112's.

Did you turn the mix screws in like you said you were going to? Remember to make only one change at a time.

Figure out the main jet first. Worry about the hard starting later.


Wheelie's better than 110's: I'm thinking that's because the mid-range was a little too rich with the 110's. Going up a main jet does affect the whole thing because the needle controls how much flow is from the main jet by going higher or lower. That's why you worry about the top end only when testing the main jet. You can adjust your needle height if needed later.

So far, which jet has given you the best performance at the top end with WOT? I'm not saying go for a top speed test, just rip it open in 3rd and 4th to see which pulls best from 11k-red line. Pick the jet that does best at WOT and top end. Don't choose a main jet based on mid-range performance.