June 18th, 2017, 09:09 AM | #1 |
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Electric Motorcycle
http://www.bikebandit.com/blog/post/...through-racing
The day I get an electric motorcycle will be the day I put my helmet out for trash pick-up. Bill |
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June 18th, 2017, 10:41 AM | #2 |
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Battery technology has a long way to go to match the range and quick refueling capability of petro fuels.
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June 18th, 2017, 11:48 AM | #3 |
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Article link has changed. It's not about motorcycles, it's about the fire in Portugal.
My hubby has an electric motorcycle and he likes it a lot. He'll take that one any time we are on the roads here. Bigger trips he has to take the gas bike, but he prefers the electric. |
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June 18th, 2017, 12:16 PM | #4 | |
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You husband might find this a good read. Bill |
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June 18th, 2017, 12:17 PM | #5 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Bill |
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June 18th, 2017, 03:15 PM | #6 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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"Most of the development will come from racing" rather than street models but that's nothing new. Cars and bikes have been doing that forever- racing develops all the new goodies and the street takes what seems useful.
We've got an electric car, and like the article says, all your torque is available through the whole speed range. No worrying about a power band- it's ALL power band. |
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June 18th, 2017, 03:37 PM | #7 |
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Great article!
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June 18th, 2017, 08:33 PM | #8 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Bill |
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June 18th, 2017, 08:59 PM | #9 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
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June 19th, 2017, 12:35 AM | #10 |
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Yeah, Nah
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June 19th, 2017, 02:52 AM | #11 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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June 20th, 2017, 05:19 AM | #12 |
Motorbike Obsessed
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Being an engineer, I get the performance capabilities of electric and find them tantalizing for race bikes. The idea that race tracks of all sizes could become popular again since the noise issue that is forcing so many tracks to close goes away.
My biggest issue is, at least for US based manufacturers, is the focus on "urban" commuters. As the most recent election showed, as well as any plane flight across this country, this country has waaaay more non-urban areas. The idea of a 80 mile range and a 6 to 8 hour charge time just doesn't work for me when I can leave my house and do 200 miles of twisty canyon carving in those same 6 hours on one tank of gas.
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June 20th, 2017, 06:52 AM | #13 | |
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For myself, being a gearhead for the past 50 years, I would miss the visceral appeal of an internal combustion engine. Old habits die hard. Bill |
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June 20th, 2017, 06:56 AM | #14 |
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I'd love to have an electric motorcycle for commuting.
I just can't afford one. My commute, on the shortest route is about 27 miles one way (of crappy stop and go traffic). On the route with the least traffic it's about 42 miles (at speeds of 55-70 mph). There are electric vehicle quick charging stations near my office. So a 50 mile range and 4-6 hrs charging time are not a deal breaker for me. A base model Zero S 6.5 is about $11K, plus $600 for the Quick Charger, so almost $12K before taxes and tags, now there still are some federal tax incentives but out the door will still be well over $10K. That would give me a 49 mile range at highway speeds or just barely enough to do my long traffic reduced commute. It would be a great commuter bike, but I still would need a gas powered bike for the longer rides. A Top of the range SR with the power tank to give me a 100 mile range at highway speeds is almost $20K. That's on a bike that has the performance of about a 500cc gas bike. I could get a very nice touring bike for almost that price (dealer nearby has 2016 Goldwings for $21k). I put about 12,000 miles a year on my bike, that's a little over $600 worth of gas. If I could get electricity for free it would take me almost 17 years of use to pay for the electric bike, and I still would need a gas bike for longer rides. If they can get an electric bike with 500cc gas bike performance, 50 mile range at highway speeds of up to 70 mph, with quick charge capabilities and a cost of under $5,000 I'll buy one. |
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June 20th, 2017, 10:52 AM | #15 | |
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500cbr new is just under $7000 plus 3 oil changes and gas $675 per year Your $12,000 Zero S would break even point is about 9 years(faster as gas prices go up). Add the quiet ride and subtract the buzzy feet and hands. For me that is worth it. I have a gas bike already, but I ride to commute 99% of the time.
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June 20th, 2017, 11:22 AM | #16 |
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That's a good excuse to have more than one bike! Use the electric for commuting, top off the charge a little bit while you're at work if there's a charger anywhere nearby, and keep the gas bike for the longer trips.
It's unfortunate that the electrics are still expensive. With the electric car and electric bike, our electric bill went up about $25 a month. No big deal at all, especially with not paying for gas. |
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June 20th, 2017, 11:43 AM | #17 | |
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I suppose you think new bike if you're not that comfortable doing your own repairs. Fortunately, I have never had one of my bikes at a dealer for repairs. An electric motorcycle would be a very difficult sale to me. Bill |
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June 20th, 2017, 11:55 AM | #18 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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I have owned 3 bikes, only my 300 I got new and it has 3 times the mileages of the others. You suppose wrong. I do not think the Electric bike market is mature enough for junkyard dogs like you but it is coming.
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June 20th, 2017, 02:35 PM | #19 | |
Motorbike Obsessed
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Quote:
For electric motorcycles to be mainstream several cultural shifts must occur: 1) riders will have to change the meaning of going for a ride. Planning for longer charge stops or stops where charge stations are available. 2) especially in the US, bikes will have to be though of as main transportation devices rather than toys. 3) the cost will have to be comparable to gas bikes. My 2004 ninja 250 and 2004 FZ1 together will cost less and payback sooner than a current zero bike. Neither are junkyard bikes requiring lots of work and a nine year payback time for an electric to me is rediculous.
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June 20th, 2017, 03:12 PM | #20 | |
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First of all, electric motorcycles are not for everyone. It is ok to like what you like. No need to point out that the HD Ultraglide is a lot of work on hill climbs or the Grom is horrible to tour on, these things are obvious.
Electric bikes are still a new technology and therefore have a premium price tag. They are currently low volume and target the most profitable demographic with the lowest infrastructure costs, i.e. urban commuter. There is no one perfect bike that meets everyone's desires all of the time, electric or gas. Some of the arguments presented in this tread are a bit dated, for example what current 500cc bike matches the performance of a current Zero SR? Peak torque 116 ft-lb (157 Nm) Peak power 70 hp (52 kW) @ 3,500 rpm That is a lot of torque for 500cc. Not all electric bikes take a full 8 hours to charge, for example the Energica Ego and Eva have options for "20 kW DC FAST CHARGE Recharge in 30 min (0-85% SOC) MODE 4 DC FAST CHARGE". Even the Zero's have additional options to reduce your charging time or even swap the batteries on the FX or FXS models. Some of my favorite routes currently allow me to top off my charge while I have lunch. It doesn't need to be as fast as filling with gas as long as I don't have to sit there holding the nozzle, in fact plugging in and then unplugging takes less of my time than filling with gas would. Electrics still require some maintenance, but nothing like their internal combustion engine counterparts. I am sooooo, not looking forward do doing the 48,000 mile service on my Triumph. Used electric bikes are available, and like all new tech, often at substantial discounts. If your passion is touring, an electric is probably not the best choice at this time, however from http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...terry-hershner Quote:
I own an 2016 Empulse TT, I have owned a 2014 Empulse R. I have ridden the 2014 Zero S, 2016 Zero FXS, 2017 Zero DSR, and the 2017 Alta Redshift SM. Like every bike, each has its strengths and weaknesses. It is hard to overstate the value of having a full battery every time my electric leaves the garage. I think it is impossible to truly appreciate any bike until you have ridden one, and even more so to experience the way electrics deliver power. The Alta Redshift SM is a phenomenal experience to ride, especially when contrasted against the DRZ400SM I was riding the rest of that day. By the time you buy a new SM, make a few performance modifications, pay for a few years of maintenance, the price difference doesn't seem so great anymore; but like everything, it has its limitations. If you get an opportunity to test ride an Electric bike, DO IT!!! Then you can make a better informed decision about which bike is best for you. |
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June 20th, 2017, 05:31 PM | #21 | |
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They build "Rat Bikes". Bill |
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June 20th, 2017, 05:48 PM | #22 | |
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June 21st, 2017, 06:41 AM | #23 | |
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But my 1997 Harley Sportster is paid for. And I can get a brand new, left over 2015 model CBR 500 for $4300. https://www.cycletrader.com/dealers/...500R-121316638 Right now, today I don't see enough financial incentive to get an electric bike. But, the numbers are getting closer all the time and If I'm still working in 5 years I think the electric bikes will be at a price point that makes them competitive as a commuter bike for me. RamJet says the day he gets an electric bike is the day he will hang up his helmet, I however look forward to a day when there is an affordable electric bike with decent range and relatively quick recharging. I wouldn't mind having the electric bike as a daily commuter slash grocery getter, and a GoldWing for the long rides. |
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June 21st, 2017, 06:58 AM | #24 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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In 1988 I got married and we bought a home computer, spent about $2,000 on it. That would be about $4,300 in todays dollars. Look what a home computer costs now. Compare the performance of a 286 with a 20 MB hard drive and 640K of RAM to today's computers. The good news is that major motorcycle manufactures are getting on board. Honda has announced an electric scooter, Harley has show video of their electric bike (which has a very cool engine noise). More competition means more research, better bikes and lower prices. |
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June 21st, 2017, 12:02 PM | #25 |
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Hopefully with more battery factories coming online (like Teslas's), it will drop the costs of these things. And economies of scale with larger production runs.
Infrastructure is an issue. You can pull up to any parking-meter in Europe and plug in. Here, you gotta plan your trips with charging-stations in mind. Some kind of standardized battery-exchange system would be really cool. Pull up to service-station, pop out battery, insert charged one and off you go! |
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July 7th, 2017, 08:29 AM | #26 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Yamaha has a good plan
The promotional campaign also includes a network of charging stations where depleted batteries can be swapped for fresh ones. The stations will maintain an inventory of fully-charged batteries and re-charge used ones for the next cycle
from https://rideapart.com/articles/yamah...es-coming-soon
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July 7th, 2017, 11:47 AM | #27 | |
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July 7th, 2017, 12:02 PM | #28 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Quote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/05/b...ctric-car.html https://www.forbes.com/sites/pikeres.../#14562feb2c34 Based on an animation released by the automaker, Volvo’s baseline setup from 2019 will be a 48V mild-hybrid that will utilize a belted starter-generator configuration. Along with a likely lithium ion battery with a capacity in the 0.5 kWh range, this should boost fuel efficiency by about 10%-15%.
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July 7th, 2017, 12:12 PM | #29 | |
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July 7th, 2017, 12:12 PM | #30 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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July 10th, 2017, 12:36 PM | #31 |
ninjette.org guru
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Don't forget that with electric, there are fewer system components:
no cooling system no ignition system no fuel system no oil to change no transmission no exhaust Added bonus: the "fuel tank" is locked storage
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July 10th, 2017, 01:05 PM | #32 | |
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The only real advantage internal combustion has now is cost, and that won't last forever.
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July 10th, 2017, 02:15 PM | #33 |
Cat herder
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To me the tipping point is infrastructure. That's what will drive demand, even if we crack the battery problem.
The reality today: The garage at work can hold hundreds of cars -- maybe more than 1,000. There is one space with a charge point. That's ridiculous. At my last office park, one of the buildings was entirely occupied by GE. They had a bank of eight charge points in the garage... for use ONLY by GE employees, and I never once saw a car plugged in. Stupid... zero incentive for anyone else to use an electric car. When I see enough charge points that it's not crazy-inconvenient to top up when I need to, I'll consider all-electric. Until then, any vehicle I buy that has an electric motor in it will also have to have a gas engine.
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July 10th, 2017, 03:36 PM | #34 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Just put my dinosaur poop in my tank please. Oh, and please pass me the No Doze at the electric motorcycle GP. Bill |
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July 10th, 2017, 04:06 PM | #35 |
ninjette.org sage
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Not for long. Despite Trump's flailing, solar and other renewables are the future. Even fusion plants are on the horizon. Fossil fuels are on the way out, the only thing slowing it down is the stranglehold that oil corporations have on governments.
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July 10th, 2017, 04:40 PM | #36 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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I'm 69 and I won't be there with you to share your scientific delirium madness. Perhaps Obama could join you. Bill |
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July 10th, 2017, 05:32 PM | #37 |
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Might be a while. The ruling families make a huge amount of money from oil. They're not gonna let that go until they can make as much or more from the alternatives.
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July 10th, 2017, 06:21 PM | #38 |
ninjette.org sage
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That is quite true, it will happen eventually though, probably when fusion becomes viable. When the first production fusion plants come online, fossil fuel will be obsolete in a heartbeat. People who think it's not coming have their head in the sand.
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July 10th, 2017, 08:02 PM | #39 | |
Motorbike Obsessed
Name: Me
Location: SoCal
Join Date: May 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Kawasaki EX250, 2004 Yamaha FZ1, 2006 Honda CRF 450 Flat Track Race Bike Posts: 133
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Quote:
I can work on my gas bike. Specialists have to work on electrics for fear of letting the magic smoke out or electrocuting yourself with enough amps to weld 1/2" steel plate. Electric bikes aren't miracle machines they just have different engineering compromises. I'd love to see an electric GP equal to a gas GP. 23 laps at Laguna seca at the same speed as a gas GP bike. Electrics are not there yet and I won't compromise to allow less than that. To ask me as a consumer to compromise is asking for bankruptcy.
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My race Ninja build and more motorcycle content. My Motorbike Obsessions |
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July 10th, 2017, 09:15 PM | #40 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Cheers, Bill |
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