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Old April 12th, 2022, 07:57 AM   #1
racered
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pre gen ignition module suggestions

I have a zzr250 module that apparently will not work for my 2009 250r track bike. I have the connectors to plug into the pre gen module, so looking for knowledge to help me choose a module that will improve the timing curve for my bike. I have tuned the carbs for extra airflow now that the stock airbox is removed. Made a huge difference in top end power. Looking for a little more.
Would like to know which module # to avoid,(Cal spec). I see several # on Ebay. Thank you,
Paul
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Old April 13th, 2022, 08:03 AM   #2
racered
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welp

I ordered a 21119-1415, what the heck.
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Old April 13th, 2022, 09:51 AM   #3
DannoXYZ
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I think you wanted pre-'95. Those bikes had more high-end power than later ones. Not sure how much of it was from ignition though.
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Old April 13th, 2022, 11:00 AM   #4
racered
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I have a 21119-1229 module, it has IMG_0001 (2).jpgdifferent terminal positions than the harness pigtails for the 21119-1415, the difference being the earlier bike has a four wire crank sensor, from what I see on wiring diagrams.
The 2119-1415 plugs into the added connectors pictured. I don't know if the earlier (86-87) crank sensor will work on the 09 engine.
Actually I know ##@!? little of what will work, just learning as I go.
Thank you for your help, have you installed the 86-87 vintage module on a new gen 250?

Last futzed with by racered; April 14th, 2022 at 01:18 PM. Reason: year model changes
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Old April 13th, 2022, 05:52 PM   #5
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I followed this thread to install +95 ignitor in my 2009. It should work with earlier ones too, just have to connect wiring differently to account for different pinout. The earlier ignition boxes have been fitted to later pregens by just moving terminals around in connectors.

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...83#post1249383
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Old April 14th, 2022, 01:16 PM   #6
racered
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
I followed this thread to install +95 ignitor in my 2009. It should work with earlier ones too, just have to connect wiring differently to account for different pinout. The earlier ignition boxes have been fitted to later pregens by just moving terminals around in connectors.
I edited my previous post to clarify year models, accuracy not promised.

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...83#post1249383
I would change up the pin locations as needed for the 86-87 1229 module if I had knowledge of where to place the wires.
The wiring diagrams on this forum are all 88 and up or 08 and up models as far as I can tell.
It takes a search to find the 86 - 87 ex 250- gpz250 model diagram, here is what I find.
Screenshot 2022-04-14 at 14-37-55 Kawasaki EX250 E Ninja 250 R GPZ250 Electrical Wiring Diagram .jpg
Note the four wire crank sensor and related module four pin (four wire) and four pin (four wire) connectors , not the same as the 88-07 pre gen six pin (five wire) and four pin (three wire) connectors.
This is where I am stuck if I want to try the 1229 module.
I would want to view the connectors on a 86-87 pre gen to verify pin location for the 1229 module and possible crank sensor interchange.
I spent a little time testing the 1229 module to determine pin out but no love.
So I ordered up the 1415 module that should plug in to the added connectors for the 88-07 pre gen, and work.
Thank you for assisting me to get it worked out.
Paul

Last futzed with by racered; April 14th, 2022 at 01:21 PM. Reason: who knows
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Old April 14th, 2022, 10:08 PM   #7
DannoXYZ
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You're welcome, sorry I had downloaded some charts from some other threads and never combined them so that it makes sense. More on this later...

Your diagram for '86-87 EX250-E1/E2 "first-gen" model uses analogue-type ignition-system, thus 4-wire crank-sensor. Ignitor #21119-1200 or 21119-1210(CA) is made by Mitsubishi. It has connector that's not compatible with any later generations (looks like Sumitomo connector):



I actually restored one of these '87 first-gen bikes from pile of parts.




When they went to all-digital ignition in '88 with EX250-F2 model, it required only 2-wire crank-sensor (wasted spark configuration):


I also restored one of these 2002 pre-gens from boxes of parts. Note Ninja300 rearsets and new-gen sprocket cover for 16t:



Here's combined pin-outs I gathered from various places. Added function of each wire as well. You can interchange ignitors between all three generations: early pre-gen, late pre-gen and new-gen simply by connecting proper wire to correct terminal of ignitor. I spliced pre-gen harness-connector onto my 2009 new-gen so I can use any ignitor from '88 to 2012. I would just extract terminals and re-arrange them in connector when switching between early vs. late pre-gen ignitors.



Your Denso ignitor #21119-1229 is '88-94 early pre-gen while 21119-1415 is '95-07 late pre-gen (looks like Yazaki connectors). Either one can be used with '08-12 new-gen harness with interchange connections above.

So far the 2000 pre-gen unit I got is about 1/2-sec/lap faster at Thunderhill West than factory 2009 (CA-model). Still looking for '88-94 non-CA one to try out, I suspect I may gain another 1/4-sec/lap.

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; April 16th, 2022 at 02:14 AM.
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Old April 15th, 2022, 08:43 AM   #8
racered
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YES!

Holy accurate info man! With pics and color!
Thank You for that, I didn't think such info would be available, I tried to search for such but came up empty. I am humbled.
Right click and save, then on to the task at hand.
Nice work on the restored 250R and "Twin Cam 8 valve"!
Thank you again,
Paul
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