ninjette.org

Go Back   ninjette.org > 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R > 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 15th, 2011, 02:19 PM   #1
n4mwd
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
n4mwd's Avatar
 
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
Clutch Basket clicking sound

This seems to be a common problem so I was wondering what people have tried and if it worked.

Here is what I have done so far:

1) Replaced the cam chain tensioner springs with brand new factory ones. Engine ran quiet for about 10 minutes and then back to ticking.

2) Changed to 5W50 synthetic oil. The theory was that the thicker oil would dampen the timing chain movements. This made it even worse.

The only thing that seems to make it quit ticking is a load. If I put it in gear and slightly let the clutch out to give it ever so slight of a load, the tick goes away.

I have heard of people making a manual cam chain adjuster with a plate and a long bolt, but this means that the tension remains constant and it shouldn't be since the chain gets slightly longer when the engine warms up. Because of that, I'm not sure these manual ones are that safe.

Any ideas?

Last futzed with by n4mwd; April 21st, 2011 at 11:39 AM. Reason: changed title
n4mwd is offline   Reply With Quote




Old April 15th, 2011, 02:22 PM   #2
kkim
 
Join Date: Nov 2008

Posts: Too much.
live with the ticking??? unless, of course, it's detrimental to the engine... is it?
kkim is offline   Reply With Quote


Old April 15th, 2011, 02:53 PM   #3
greg737
-
 
Name: -
Location: -
Join Date: May 2009

Motorcycle(s): -

Posts: A lot.
So you're absolutely sure it's the cam chain making the noise?

I ask because I know of a different malfunction that you've just described to perfection. It occurs when the rubber bumpers that make the connection with the "dogs" on the backside of the clutch basket fall apart.

The clutch basket is connected to the engine's primary drive gear (and the accessory drive gear for oil and water pumps) by "dogs" which are short round metal pins that slot into holes in the primary/accessory drive gear assembly which are surrounded by hard rubber. For unknown reasons some bikes experience failure (disintigration) of these rubber pieces and the clutch dogs end up rattling around in the now-rubberless holes in the primary drive gear. This is especially noticable at idle and less noticable with a load on the clutch. The remains (little bits and pieces) of the rubber bumpers will be found in drained engine oil or on the engine oil screen.

Read this section and tell us what you think: http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What%27..._the_clutch%3F
greg737 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old April 16th, 2011, 05:18 AM   #4
n4mwd
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
n4mwd's Avatar
 
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
You're right, it does sound like it could be the clutch basket. Timing chains are not affected by engine load so the clutch basket is looking quite guilty. I wonder how big of deal it is to swap this thing out?

I went to the faq and I have to wonder what the purpose of those rubber bushings are for. I did find a small amount of rubber bits in my oil screen when I changed the oil the other day. I'm curious if welding the dogs firm will end the noise and still let the bike work properly.

You sound like you have experience with this same problem. What did you ultimately do about it?
n4mwd is offline   Reply With Quote


Old April 16th, 2011, 06:41 AM   #5
greg737
-
 
Name: -
Location: -
Join Date: May 2009

Motorcycle(s): -

Posts: A lot.
No, my bike hasn't developed this problem yet (it's a 2005 with just over 10,000 miles). I just know about the problem because I've seen posts on the other forum by people trying to figure it out, just like you are now.

The bottom line seems to be that the engine and bike will run just fine with this situation left just as it is. It's irritating because of the clacking noise at idle, but it appears it doesn't contribute to any further damage anywhere else in the bike's engine or drivetrain. So, if you can live with the noise it's really not a problem.

I understand that replacing the clutch basket is about a medium skill-level operation and it does require at least one special tool purchase to do it.

If you're even the least bit interested in what I would do, I'm pretty sure that if my EX-250 started making this sound I would replace the clutch basket. I have a hard time letting something like this go, but I know other people have different opinions about spending money on their EX-250s.
greg737 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old April 21st, 2011, 11:39 AM   #6
n4mwd
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
n4mwd's Avatar
 
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
Clutch Basket Free Play

I ordered a new used one from a guy on ebay. I got it today and its junk. It has about 1/4" free play between the gear and basket. That's about the same as what I have now. The allowed amount is zero. Now I'm pissed at the seller and I will have to file a claim with paypal or something.

Since it doesn't seem to hurt anything besides my hearing, I'm probably just going to forget about it once I get a refund from this guy.
n4mwd is offline   Reply With Quote


Old April 21st, 2011, 11:48 AM   #7
n4mwd
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
n4mwd's Avatar
 
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
Ok, what pisses me off is that in addition to saying "Structurally it is in perfect condition" in the ebay listing, when I emailed and asked him to check the free play, he wrote back and said it was "tight as a drum". So that is why I'm super pissed.
n4mwd is offline   Reply With Quote


Old April 21st, 2011, 12:26 PM   #8
greg737
-
 
Name: -
Location: -
Join Date: May 2009

Motorcycle(s): -

Posts: A lot.
Ebay is a great resource but I'm thinking there are certain parts that should be purchased new. Sometimes it's the only way to insure you're not just buying and installing more problems.
greg737 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old April 21st, 2011, 05:39 PM   #9
n4mwd
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
n4mwd's Avatar
 
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
I guess its especially true of rubber parts. I should have know better. Here is a video of the free play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_CpU45u-OE
Attached Files
File Type: mp4 Kawasaki Ninja 250 Clutch Basket Free Play.mp4 (5.78 MB, 1 views)
n4mwd is offline   Reply With Quote


Old April 21st, 2011, 05:52 PM   #10
n4mwd
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
n4mwd's Avatar
 
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noob View Post
What youre doing is a different language to me, but my 08 250r has been ticking for some time now. I suspect that its the timing chain.
I used to think it was the timing chain, but it turns out its the clutch basket. If the tick goes away with a gentle load, its the clutch basket. Might be the same for you.
n4mwd is offline   Reply With Quote


Old April 21st, 2011, 09:19 PM   #11
greg737
-
 
Name: -
Location: -
Join Date: May 2009

Motorcycle(s): -

Posts: A lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noob View Post
I dont think it goes away. I think the engine noise just muffles that noise out, the higher it revs. Ill try to get a video up tomorrow when my battery ships in...long story. Ill go through anything to get it running smooth. If its the clutch basket, will it cause damage, if left untreated?
I'm thinking you didn't read the information in the link referenced earlier in this thread.

What we're talking about here when we say it "gets quieter" is that's the way to diagnose whether it's your clutch that's making the noise. Here's how you tell it's the clutch basket rather than the cam chain.

While idling in the driveway, put the bike into first gear then slowly let the clutch lever out until it just begins to drag against the engine. In this "light load" (and low rev) situation the rattle of metal-to-metal contact between the clutch basket and the primary gear is muted (due to the clutch basket "dogs" being held gently against the engine drive gear instead of bouncing around randomly).

As to whether or not leaving the clutch basket situation unresolved hurts the engine long term, who knows? There will certainly be little jolts as the clutch dogs bang against the primary gear, and these jolts will be transmitted back through the engine. Are these jolts large enough to cause extra wear or impact damage in other areas of the engine?

Nobody seems to know. It could be that the rubber bumpers are just a "nice to have" item that deliver quieter engine operation. A smooth, nice sounding bike sells better than a mechanically loud, clanky sounding one.
greg737 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old April 22nd, 2011, 05:46 AM   #12
n4mwd
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
n4mwd's Avatar
 
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
I think its just a bushing to dampen the vibration from the engine to the tranny. Cars usually have springs on their clutch plates too and I suspect that the reason they are there are the same. But given how little rubber there is, I'm not sure just how much dampening they expect.

What I would really like to know is how they got decomposed in the first place? Are certain brands of oil harmful?

In any event, the only time it clicks is at idle. Any movement of the bike represents a load sufficient to keep it quiet.
n4mwd is offline   Reply With Quote


Old April 25th, 2011, 09:22 PM   #13
n4mwd
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
n4mwd's Avatar
 
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by n4mwd View Post
I guess its especially true of rubber parts. I should have know better. Here is a video of the free play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_CpU45u-OE
I just got word from the dealer and he is going to issue a full refund and has admitted that he didn't check the part correctly before shipping. Still, I will think twice before ordering a used rubber part on ebay. Its just that the dealer wants $300 for a new one. Oh well, I'm just going to let it click until it breaks.
n4mwd is offline   Reply With Quote


Old April 27th, 2011, 03:47 PM   #14
speedgsx98
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Dave
Location: San Diego
Join Date: Apr 2009

Motorcycle(s): 250 ninja 2002, 2008 ZX10-R

Posts: 149
try www.apachemotorcycles.com

That's where I get most of my parts. 30% OEM parts and reasonable shipping with no tax. Or just start driving with music on ;-)

Just looked it up. $233.77 for the basket.
__________________________________________________
90 EX250 Ninja, 92 FZR600, 86 CR125, 77 GS750, 73 RD350, 86 CR250, RD350 in SRX250 frame, 75 RD350, 99 RM125, 99 GSXR750, 07 Reflex, 02 250 Ninja, 02 GSXR1k, 08 ZX10R, 07 250 Ninja, 05 250 ninja
speedgsx98 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old April 27th, 2011, 04:32 PM   #15
n4mwd
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
n4mwd's Avatar
 
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedgsx98 View Post
try www.apachemotorcycles.com

That's where I get most of my parts. 30% OEM parts and reasonable shipping with no tax. Or just start driving with music on ;-)

Just looked it up. $233.77 for the basket.
Good idea. Here is a fix for the problem for only $12.17.
http://www.buy.com/prod/2gb-slim-met...220897615.html
n4mwd is offline   Reply With Quote


Old April 27th, 2011, 05:09 PM   #16
speedgsx98
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Dave
Location: San Diego
Join Date: Apr 2009

Motorcycle(s): 250 ninja 2002, 2008 ZX10-R

Posts: 149
I just started riding with music when I got my ZX-10R a couple years ago. Everyone else was doing it. It's actually kind of cool. I bob my head like a pigeon and tap on my levers with my fingertips while I ride =)
__________________________________________________
90 EX250 Ninja, 92 FZR600, 86 CR125, 77 GS750, 73 RD350, 86 CR250, RD350 in SRX250 frame, 75 RD350, 99 RM125, 99 GSXR750, 07 Reflex, 02 250 Ninja, 02 GSXR1k, 08 ZX10R, 07 250 Ninja, 05 250 ninja
speedgsx98 is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ticking noise jcsalazar 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 5 October 29th, 2014 12:24 PM
[motorcycle.com] - BMW C650GT and C600 Sport Recalled for Faulty Timing Chain Tension Ninjette Newsbot Motorcycling News 0 May 27th, 2014 12:40 PM
ticking. awful, awful ticking... Insan3guy 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 6 March 25th, 2014 05:32 AM
Ex.side timing chain guide alex.s 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 5 September 23rd, 2012 10:09 AM
Noob problems? throttle issues and chain ticking. 02ninjaeastbay 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 2 May 21st, 2011 03:11 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Motorcycle Safety Foundation

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:49 AM.


Website uptime monitoring Host-tracker.com
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Except where otherwise noted, all site contents are © Copyright 2022 ninjette.org, All rights reserved.