'18 Suzuki Katana 250

["A"]

Now that Ninja 250s are no longer in production; Suzuki can take over the 250cc market.

Suzuki Introduces Twin-Cylinder 2018 GSX250R Katana For American Market, With Projected On-Sale Date Of April 2017

[taz]

NOT A FAN OF THE LOOK AND A LITTLE LOW ON POWER COMPARED TO THE COMPETITION. BUT IF THE CBR300RR COMES TO THE STATES I'LL HAVE A LOOK AT IT

[Brother Michigan]

Originally Posted by "A"

Now that Ninja 250s are no longer in production; Suzuki can take over the 250cc market.

Suzuki Introduces Twin-Cylinder 2018 GSX250R Katana For American Market, With Projected On-Sale Date Of April 2017

That's a horrible photoshop, haha. Same wheels and muffler as the Ninja 300. May be the same seats and such, too.

["A"]

Originally Posted by taz

NOT A FAN OF THE LOOK AND A LITTLE LOW ON POWER COMPARED TO THE COMPETITION. BUT IF THE CBR300RR COMES TO THE STATES I'LL HAVE A LOOK AT IT

When you compare 250cc vs 300cc, that's is a displacement difference of 25%.. of course it's low on power in comparison.

[taz]

Well the percentage difference is more close to 16.67 percent than 25, but maybe they teach math different there for you. And the power is not the main thing i'm looking at.

[Snake]

It has a single overhead cam we're the ninja 250 has a dual overhead cam.

[Zaph42]

The new GSX250R uses the GW250 engine. Because of that, the bike is a turd. 24HP? Your gen 1's will be blowing by them on the street. Suzuki screwed up. The "I don't want too much power" market is covered well by the CBR250 and 300.

[JohnnyBravo]

Am I the only one that thinks the gsxr is ugly? I haven't liked one... Like ever!

[AchyGrappler]

Originally Posted by Zaph42

The new GSX250R uses the GW250 engine. Because of that, the bike is a turd. 24HP? Your gen 1's will be blowing by them on the street. Suzuki screwed up. The "I don't want too much power" market is covered well by the CBR250 and 300.

Yeah but hopefully Suzuki will look to the new Supersport 300 class and use this a just a first iteration of the GSX250R before jumping full on into the little sport bike market. I can see this as an easy way to use existing parts and start taking advantage of the marketing that Maveric Vinales and now Iannone bring to the Suzuki name.

[VaFish]

In a market where everyone else is selling a 300 why would you try to sell a 250?

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by taz

Well the percentage difference is more close to 16.67 percent than 25, but maybe they teach math different there for you. And the power is not the main thing i'm looking at.

Just wondering. What makes you want the Suzuki 250 over the myriad of 300 options?

[taz]

Originally Posted by VaFish

In a market where everyone else is selling a 300 why would you try to sell a 250?

I agree with you that was what I was trying to get at. Also if it is going to look like the pic I think it is out dated looking. Like I said to begin with if the cbr300rr comes to the states I would more likely get that instead.

[AchyGrappler]

Originally Posted by VaFish

In a market where everyone else is selling a 300 why would you try to sell a 250?

Because Suzuki is just now starting to be notable in MotoGP. Club racers like the bigger GSXRs and Suzuki is really just doing a makeover on the GW250. The last point is probably the biggest reason. They have a little bike that they do a quick redesign on and can call it a GSX250R. They sell that for a year or two while they design a full on 300 effort. Consequently they new Supersport 300 class in WSBK gets through its growing pains and Suzuki gets the new 300 approved as one of the bikes allowed in the series. Adrea Iannone takes the MotoGP bike into lots of top 10 finishes that Suzuki capitalizes on and boom, five years on the new Suzuki little bike is a competitive seller in the class.

That's what I see between the lines in this press release.

[cbinker]

Originally Posted by AchyGrappler

Because Suzuki is just now starting to be notable in MotoGP. Club racers like the bigger GSXRs and Suzuki is really just doing a makeover on the GW250. The last point is probably the biggest reason. They have a little bike that they do a quick redesign on and can call it a GSX250R. They sell that for a year or two while they design a full on 300 effort. Consequently they new Supersport 300 class in WSBK gets through its growing pains and Suzuki gets the new 300 approved as one of the bikes allowed in the series. Adrea Iannone takes the MotoGP bike into lots of top 10 finishes that Suzuki capitalizes on and boom, five years on the new Suzuki little bike is a competitive seller in the class.

That's what I see between the lines in this press release.

Its an Ultra-light starter bike, companies are not going to dump money into research for the bikes. they are gonna just build a cheap bike build for new riders. then expert riders will take the bike and make the proper adjustments allowed by the rules of their club.

[jkv45]

Disappointing.

Suzuki has been letting me down lately. I own 2 SV650s, so I'm on-board with Suzuki, but the "new" SV650 just doesn't do it for me.

Being a fan of smaller displacement cycles, a strong-running GSX-250R (or 300/350R) is appealing. This isn't it.

Hopefully Honda will step it up with a CBR350RR and raise the bar. Suzuki just lowered it.

[Yakaru]

All that's going through my head is Rin Suzunoki not being accepted by the liter bike Katana riders and putting her nose up at the 250s.

( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakuon!! )

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by AchyGrappler

That's what I see between the lines in this press release.

^^^this. This is the feeling I'm getting as well. I'll be curious to see where they go with it. I love how this little bike looks, but as of now, I'd take a used 08-12 Ninjette every time, and then one of the 300cc+ options over that.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by taz

Well the percentage difference is more close to 16.67 percent than 25, but maybe they teach math different there for you. And the power is not the main thing i'm looking at.

250 is 16.67% less than 300 (250/300 = 0.833333). 300 is 20% more than 250 (300/250 = 1.20).

Originally Posted by AchyGrappler

Because Suzuki is just now starting to be notable in MotoGP. Club racers like the bigger GSXRs and Suzuki is really just doing a makeover on the GW250. The last point is probably the biggest reason. They have a little bike that they do a quick redesign on and can call it a GSX250R. They sell that for a year or two while they design a full on 300 effort. Consequently they new Supersport 300 class in WSBK gets through its growing pains and Suzuki gets the new 300 approved as one of the bikes allowed in the series. Adrea Iannone takes the MotoGP bike into lots of top 10 finishes that Suzuki capitalizes on and boom, five years on the new Suzuki little bike is a competitive seller in the class.

That's what I see between the lines in this press release.

It has to be something like this. There's absolutely no reason to bring a 250 into the US market to compete with 300s. In other countries where there are license or insurance limits based on engine size, sure. In the US, pointless. Maybe production sales to qualify for certain race types (but again, if US sales aren't required, there's no real reason to sell them here)? US marketing doesn't involve "Less power than the competition!!!!" claims. The pics seem to show the same basic budget bike parts that the other brands have (as opposed to being a very sophisticated sportbike with a small engine). Even if the MPG is a bit higher than the EX300 (76 vs. 66), it's got a smaller tank (3.5g vs. 4.5g) for fewer total miles (266 vs. 297), and the mentioned power discrepancy (24hp vs. 38hp). Even if you're limited to 250cc, the Ninja and CBR have better numbers. The only reason I see to buy this bike is the brand name on it (which is a very small factor in my personal calculations). If there's no reason for the customer to buy it, there's no reason for the company to try to sell it.

[Klondike1020]

Originally Posted by VaFish

In a market where everyone else is selling a 300 why would you try to sell a 250?

its a re skinned tu250. Don't make any changes and try to sling a few more of what they already have with some new plastics.

Obviously out to just catch some young GSXR squid groupies on the cheap bike market

[Flashesbuck]

Ill step in here, add a note about this little bike. I rode this thing for some time during demo days (was working for suzuki), mainly because there were 2 on the truck, and no one else would ride them.
Chaseontwowheels does a ride review on YouTube for this bike, and he is really ruff on it. I don't fully agree with him. I almost think he got a bad bike, or was not set up properly.

The power is quite "anemic" for a bike like this. The fit and finish seemed fine, and handling with very light and nimble. I never had it up on a highway to test the top end. But i would think its enough to travel the highways for some time. From what I felt. It was very controllable. The display was nice, and had a lot of info that i could see easily.

The MSRP is $4499, There is no way this bike will sell at that price. Go look at the 300 for that price, or the honda with a better aftermarket support. I would pick on up used, and spend 2500 tops. I can see it selling at dealerships for about 3500, OTD.
Just my $.02

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by Klondike1020

its a re skinned tu250. Don't make any changes and try to sling a few more of what they already have with some new plastics.

Ummm, no not quite.

The TU250 is an air cooled single cylinder dual rear shock bike with 18" wheels/tires.

The Katana 250 is a liquid cooled parallel twin single rear shock with 17" wheels and tires.

I doubt they have any parts in common except for the fuses and the H4 head light bulb (Katana has LED tail light and turn signals, TU has bulbs).

Obviously out to just catch some young GSXR squid groupies on the cheap bike market

Well that part is probably true at least.

[jkv45]

This is a sad attempt from Suzuki.

Where does this fit? It's too expensive and down on power.

Why bother at this point?

I own 2 Suzukis ('00 SVn and '06 SVn), but I have to say I'm questioning their design and marketing. Especially after taking the SV and making a "Gladius", then re-hashing it to make a "new" SV.

Weaksauce.

[JohnnyBravo]

Usually Suzuki does well with what they put out... This thing I'd say they missed it by at least half a mile

["A"]

Suzuki's market is not limited within the US, just because there may not be a market for 250 machine within the US, doesn't mean that this machine can't be successful elsewhere in the world.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by "A"

Suzuki's market is not limited within the US, just because there may not be a market for 250 machine within the US, doesn't mean that this machine can't be successful elsewhere in the world.

True.

Still weaksauce.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo

Usually Suzuki does well with what they put out... This thing I'd say they missed it by at least half a mile

I loved my 78' Suzuki GS750 and I like their engineering and design but I'm gonna die with my 07' 250 Ninja - with a smile on my face.

Bill

["A"]

Originally Posted by jkv45

True.

Still weaksauce.

Originally Posted by Ram Jet

I loved my 78' Suzuki GS750 and I like their engineering and design but I'm gonna die with my 07' 250 Ninja - with a smile on my face.

Bill

Just yesterday, i rode my 04 Ninja 250, from Coney Island, NY to Valley Forge, PA; 120+ miles (with Verrazano Bridge/Staten Island traffic) under 2 hours.
10-11k rpm most of the way, passed a few other motorcycles.
250 parallel twin engine never felt "weak" to me, plenty of power if you know how to use it.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by "A"

Just yesterday, i rode my 04 Ninja 250, from Coney Island, NY to Valley Forge, PA; 120+ miles (with Verrazano Bridge/Staten Island traffic) under 2 hours.
10-11k rpm most of the way, passed a few other motorcycles.
250 parallel twin engine never felt "weak" to me, plenty of power if you know how to use it.

With my 15/42 gearing I feel like I'm riding a 750 at highway speeds. I just cringe at the R.P.M.s I'm running. I feel like I'm beating that little 250 to death but it doesn't seem to mind it. I'm well past the "gotta have more displacement" life stage.

Bill

["A"]

Another entry: Yamaha Fazer 25

[Z1R rider]

What's with the rear bumper?

["A"]

Originally Posted by Z1R rider

What's with the rear bumper?

For those who actually ride in the rain?

[Z1R rider]

or need a push start

[choneofakind]

Fenders may be ugly, but they're functional!

They're more common on Ducati's, seen here is the Diavel:

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by "A"

Just yesterday, i rode my 04 Ninja 250, from Coney Island, NY to Valley Forge, PA; 120+ miles (with Verrazano Bridge/Staten Island traffic) under 2 hours.
10-11k rpm most of the way, passed a few other motorcycles.
250 parallel twin engine never felt "weak" to me, plenty of power if you know how to use it.

It's 2017. A "new" single overhead cam 250cc twin is weaksauce.

I'm not saying it's weaksauce just because it's a 250.

["A"]

Originally Posted by jkv45

It's 2017. A "new" single overhead cam 250cc twin is weaksauce.

I'm not saying it's weaksauce because just it's a 250.

You need a better definition for your "weaksauce" assessment.

IMO, only those who don't know how to use a engine to its capacity would consider that it's weak.
If you have the skills to use an engine, any engine to its full capacity; you'd know that there is no "weaksauce" in small displacement.

When was the last time you get to use a "non-weaksauce" bike to the limits of its engine performance?
and how many times can you repeat that before you lose your license or hurt someone on public roads?

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by "A"

You need a better definition for your "weaksauce" assessment.

IMO, only those who don't know how to use a engine to its capacity would consider that it's weak.
If you have the skills to use an engine, any engine to its full capacity; you'd know that there is no "weaksauce" in small displacement.

When was the last time you get to use a "non-weaksauce" bike to the limits of its engine performance?
and how many times can you repeat that before you lose your license or hurt someone on public roads?

Seriously.

Figure it out...

["A"]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Seriously.

Figure it out...

Hey, if you can't clearly express your thoughts through writing, forum participants can only figure you out by guessing.

From you repeating "weaksauce", it's pretty safe to guess that you rely more on engine output than rider skill to ride fast.

More power to you if that's what you need to go fast.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by "A"

Hey, if you can't clearly express your thoughts through writing, forum participants can only figure you out by guessing.

From you repeating "weaksauce", it's pretty safe to guess that you rely more on engine output than rider skill to ride fast.

If you would look at the specs of the "new" engine, it would be obvious what I meant.

It's a "GSXR" for cryin' out loud. That means it's designed as a "sport" bike. It's not a cruiser. That means performance is a priority.

To bring a new "GSXR" to the market using dated technology is just weak. A 20-year-old 250 Ninja has better performance than the "new" GSX250R.

That's weaksauce.

You have no idea of my riding skill, so making comments like " it's pretty safe to guess that you rely more on engine output than rider skill to ride fast." is weaksauce.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by jkv45

If you would look at the specs of the "new" engine, it would be obvious what I meant.

It's a "GSXR" for cryin' out loud. That means it's designed as a "sport" bike. It's not a cruiser. That means performance is a priority.

To bring a new "GSXR" to the market using dated technology is just weak. A 20-year-old 250 Ninja has better performance than the "new" GSX250R.

That's weaksauce.

You have no idea of my riding skill, so making comments like " it's pretty safe to guess that you rely more on engine output than rider skill to ride fast." is weaksauce.

I know what you meant Jay. Simply put if a manufacturer wants to compete in the performance market he better have "hip" technology. For example I wouldn't want a Honda CB750 over a DOHC Suzuki GS750. I could ride pretty damned fast on my Triumph push rod vertical twin but wouldn't compete with today's Kawasaki 750.


Heck, even if you ride a Vespa get out there and chew-up some asphalt. It's a beautiful day here in Michigan.

Happy Labor Day everyone, even to those in labor.

Bill

["A"]

Originally Posted by jkv45

You have no idea of my riding skill, so making comments like " it's pretty safe to guess that you rely more on engine output than rider skill to ride fast." is weaksauce.

I never claim that I have an idea, but from what you have repeatedly written
about it being "weaksause"; your opinion indicate that with 250cc displacement, you have demonstrated yourself that you need more engine power output than 250cc engine is capable of... without even riding one.