Idea for motorcycle business, good or bad?

[Major_Paine]

Originally Posted by pilotgeorge747

I've always thought about this while working on my car in parking lots. However as I've read on the internet there would be plenty of issues. First profits would prolly barely cover rent and utilites for a suitable building. Most car shops (most liklely bike shops as well) make most of their money on providing services and repairs other than what the customer came in for. Therefore only $35 an hour for the limited amount of spaces you have would probally just make you rent, utlities, insurance, etc even when all bays are full. Liaibilty would also be a major issue even with waivers as the right lawyer can always find a loophole. Also think of the people who come in thinking they know what they are doing with a "simple task", discover it is much more than they expected and render the vehicle unmoveable and don't have the cash or desire to pay to keep the vehicle in the bay any longer. At this point they abandon the beater car/bike that isn't worth anything and leave you to remove it. You are now left with a worthless vehicle to dispose of and no cash for whatever amount of hours they took up your bay.

As I've said I researched this a bit in the past and from what I've seen people have tried it and just about all have failed as it seemed simple at first until they discovered how complicated it actual is.

thank you for the heads up. im trying to figure out what potential problems can be with this, and also what location and demographic to market to.

[Major_Paine]

Originally Posted by setasai

I dont think abandoning a motorcycle is a big deal. I'm sure there are ways to put in the agreement that if you forfit your vehicle for a period of time, the shop can part out the vehicle or sell it or something. Plus... moving motorcycles arent as difficult as cars.

It wont be easy and like you say, not that profitable, but the whole appeal of this type of business is to form a club/unity for riders. Plus, who's to say that a new rider wanting to learn how to lube their chain isnt going to have the mechanic on staff to show them a valve adjustment? Extra services like you say can still be given.

Keep the ideas flowing! Lets make a rule... for every negative comment... you must present atleast one positive solution.

this is definitely for the community of riders as opposed to making a profit.

thats why i figured we should have a small cafe or some other way to make profit.

[Major_Paine]

just want to thank everyone for all the extra ideas/ specifying gray areas i wasnt sure of yet.

-credit card info + id a MUST -> some sort of collateral/deposit for each bay rented

-changing pricing to fit the peeps in LA. so im hearing about 15/half hour and 25/hour. membership would run a monthly fee and somewhere between 1-5$/hour depending on how long youve been a member? benefits right?

-everything you use (oil, lube etc) is going to be charged as close to wholesale as possible (including shipping, taxes and what not) and should come out cheaper than other places.

-will also look into supplying things like tank pads, frame sliders, rim tape, spools, full fairing sets etc.

-profits will be made from the pub/cafe, mostly through food and drink. menu is going to be stuff like tailgate food, street tacos, sliders, sodas. MAYBE beer, as thats quite the liability issue

-if i am left with a junker, ill give them a certain number of days to claim, otherwise im junking it + charging moving fees to that persons credit card.

-would like to expand to a bike storage as well, not so many ppl storing it in my area but i think a monthly fee + sign some contract where the owner knows the risks (of course there will be camera surveillance.

-bike nights to promote the shop, give away tools etc

-birthday specials if you are on the mailing list

-wed night workshops, where the mechanics take time to show new riders some basic maintenance etc

[setasai]

Starting to sound like lots of fun! Keep it going! If you get this thing running, I'll have to get some of us to ride down and check it out!

[Trailerboy531]

What area of LA is this?

You're going to need full, very obvious security for people to feel safe leaving their bikes there.

[Nemesis]

A shop in San Diego did the same thing and closed shop a year later.

My two cents: Bad idea especially with the economy these days.

[little fish]

didn't feel like reading all the posts ..but as far as tools go you use a "chit" system and tools are asigned out to each customer with a "chit" for their name...that way you can make sure you get all the tools back.

[Major_Paine]

Originally Posted by Trailerboy531

What area of LA is this?

You're going to need full, very obvious security for people to feel safe leaving their bikes there.

san gabriel valley/oc area

[Sailariel]

Your idea has a lot of merit and I think that it can work. True, you will initially have some speed bumps, but they can be handled.

1) You will need money up front. Follow the lead of a health spa--Bally Matrix, Gold's. Charge a yearly fee.

2) Ideally, if you can find a retired MC Mechanic or someone good with bikes, bring him or her aboard.

3) Rather than charging an hourly rate, charge for the use of equipment--stands, compressor, special tools, etc.

4)Try to avoid selling stuff. Rather strike a deal with a motorcycle shop for stuff like filters, oil, chain lube, and all that stuff. They can deliver when called.

5)A coffee bar with coffee and donuts would work fine and maybe generate some income. I would stay away from alcohol. A vending machine or two would not hurt either.

6)You can always expand later. Winter storage or any storage is a good idea and will generate income.

7)Most Co-ops have failed because they tried to do everything right away. You have to take it slow.

8)If you have a lot of space, displaying bikes for sale and charging 10% or 15% commission would not be bad.

That's all I can think of for now. Good luck.

[Jinx250]

Originally Posted by Major_Paine

-beers would be cheap and plenty, happy hour all the time

This is hte only thing I disagree with, especially if you're just coming in to work on it for a little while and then go. Call me a puritan, but riding = no beer in my book.

[Major_Paine]

Originally Posted by Jinx250

This is hte only thing I disagree with, especially if you're just coming in to work on it for a little while and then go. Call me a puritan, but riding = no beer in my book.

no beer if youre going to be riding!! safety first. i guess happy hour would be for those coming to unwind or something. or if they have a long term project sitting in one of the bays.

[milhouse]

Hi all, I know this thread is over a year old, but does anyone know what happened with this idea?

I just recently moved to the LA area and live in an apartment that frowns on doing maintenance in their garage.

I think this is a great idea. It would not make a huge profit, but I think it should at least be able to cover costs and salaries. It would definitely have to be something that relies on the support of the community of riders to keep alive. I like the membership idea, maybe with the yearly membership you get a certain amount of garage time per month? It could be cumulative, so for example if you don't use any garage time for awhile, you might accumulate a full day's time or something, so you don't feel like you're paying the yearly dues for nothing. Or at the beginning of each membership year you get a certain number of hours up front. Then afterwards you get a discounted hourly rate.

I think LA is the perfect area for this because of the large number of riders in the area. Those with garages would come hang out occasionally, and those without garages would be there all the time. Bike storage is also a good idea, but I think that should come later in order to reduce start-up costs.

@Major_Paine - I'd be happy to help out in any way I can if you're still interested in this idea. Or if anyone else would like to pursue this idea further, let me know.

[Major_Paine]

After a lot of talking to others, seems like theres a lot of liability that comes with this type of business so insurance and other related costs would be high.

check out los angeles motorcycle riders on facebook. were a tight knit community and we work on our own bikes. we have several members who are more than willing to lend a helping hand when they can

[hirubhaiambani]

Originally Posted by milhouse

I just recently moved to the LA area and live in an apartment that frowns on doing maintenance in their garage.

I face the same problem in St. Louis. My apartment complex wont allow me to work on my bike in the parking garage. Although I am not too mechanically inclined, I am confident of handling routine maintenance stuff like changing oil, brakepads and stuff like that. Currently, I have to pay though my nose to get all these things done

[Vintage Smoke]

Originally Posted by pilotgeorge747

I've always thought about this while working on my car in parking lots. However as I've read on the internet there would be plenty of issues. First profits would prolly barely cover rent and utilites for a suitable building. Most car shops (most liklely bike shops as well) make most of their money on providing services and repairs other than what the customer came in for. Therefore only $35 an hour for the limited amount of spaces you have would probally just make you rent, utlities, insurance, etc even when all bays are full. Liaibilty would also be a major issue even with waivers as the right lawyer can always find a loophole. Also think of the people who come in thinking they know what they are doing with a "simple task", discover it is much more than they expected and render the vehicle unmoveable and don't have the cash or desire to pay to keep the vehicle in the bay any longer. At this point they abandon the beater car/bike that isn't worth anything and leave you to remove it. You are now left with a worthless vehicle to dispose of and no cash for whatever amount of hours they took up your bay.

As I've said I researched this a bit in the past and from what I've seen people have tried it and just about all have failed as it seemed simple at first until they discovered how complicated it actual is.

I think this covers the reality of the idea pretty well. Running a motorcycle shop is a really tough way to earn a living. I know from experience. I have had my own shop for the last 9 years and I will be closing up shop this winter. It just doesn't pay. Those dealerships that "overcharge" don't have much of a choice. In most cases it's the only way to cover the overhead. Selling parts at wholesale probably won't work. Most dealers rely on shops to sell, install, promote, their products and tend to protect their dealers who absolutely rely on that small (usually 20%) mark up to cover their overhead. Believe me that the shops in your area will start calling the mnufacturers and distributors once they catch wind on what yo are doing. You also forget that we are now in an internet age where people buy most of the parts & accessories on the net whenever possible.
You really need to do a demographic analysis of the riders in your area. How many riders? How many have their own tools/shop? How many have no desire to wrench on their own bikes. How many have a friend with a garage? Eliminate all of the above and you have your market. Now take a small percentage of the ones left and that is your customer base. You REALLY have to do a proper analysis and crunch the numbers. The greatest business idea means nothing if your local population won't provide you with enough business to cover your overhead AND be profitable. Your overhead will be insane too. Rent, utilities, tools, supplies, and the biggest one....insurance. Liability insurance for a bike shop is ridiculous IF you can find a company to write you a policy. Believe it or not liability insurance for repair shops is not required in most states so the insurance companies are not required to offer it to you. When you can find a company to write you a policy it is VERY expensive. I have been dropped 3 times in the last 9 years for no reason. I have never had a claim. All 3 companies just decided that the liability was too high. If you have one claim your rates will skyrocket IF you can find a company to write you. BTW..waivers mean NOTHING. People can sue you for looking at them funny and like was mentioned a good lawyer can always find a lop hole to get them money. What makes sense and is reasonable to a lay person is rarely what is used to make a determination in a legal setting. Just ask any lawyer.

These are just a SMALL PORTION of the problems which are a reality of running a small service based shop. Sorry to be a kill joy, but I wish someone had offered some of this advice to me when I started. I recently went to small claims court. i was sued by a guy who I did work for FIVE YEARS ago. The suit was just plain silly, and he was laughed out of court, but it did cost me a whole day preparing as well as a whole day in court.....just to satisfy his ego. Things like this pop up and surprise you on a constant basis. Holy crap....I never thought that would be an issue!!!

Chances are you will never make a profit doing it. You may be better off getting a bunch of guys together and doing it as a club. You could split the expenses and equipment equally and have fun doing it. it may work in a true co op setting, but it wil probably not work as a business venture.

The only way i could see it ever working is if your overhead was totally covered by another source of income and the DIY part of it was gravy.

This is just the opinion of someone who is personally invested and pretty well experienced in running a shop. If you stil want to go through with it spend atr least 3-6 months researching. CRUNCH NUMBERS!! Also..search out your local Small business Development Center. They are usually staffed by volunteers who are successful business people that can help you to look at things in a clear view with regards to whether or not it is a viable idea.

[milhouse]

@Vintage Smoke: Thanks for the thorough response. Sorry to hear about your shop. I guess something like this would be more trouble than it's worth with all the liability issues. It's a shame, cause it's a great idea.

@hirubhaiambani: Yeah, my complex doesn't allow any maintenance work either. But I've been sneaking in the minor stuff anyways. I've gotten some stink eye, but no major issues yet. I think I'll be fine as long as none of the other residents complain. It'd just be much more enjoyable to work on the bike without the annoyance/concern of getting hassled by the leasing office.

I'll have to make do until I can move to a place with a garage.

[Vintage Smoke]

Sorry guys. I didn't mean to be Mr. Negative. I just wanted to offer some insight on the possible pitfalls i see with opening up a shop these days. I would hate to see someone make the huge investment without being armed with as much info as possible. Just because my shop wasn't profitable doesn't mean you can't make it happen for you. Just make sure you do as much research as possible before committing to it.

My shop actually did pretty well until the economy crashed. I started in a 900 sq/ft shop. Business grew and I moved into a 3000 sq/ft shop. It grew even more and I bought the building i was renting. The economy took a dive and since then I have been just barely breaking even. i have developed a second business though that is doing great. I manufacture parts for older 2 stroke street bikes. Mostly the Yamaha RD350's and RD400's. Old + 2stroke + smokey = Vintage Smoke! I make rear sets and electronic ignition conversions. i have a web store and sell world wide. It is doing well enough that i am setting up a machine shop at my house and moving the business there. A niche market with minimal overhead should make for a nice little business with less headaches and no more 60+ hour work weeks. I am actually looking forward to it!!

[JohnnyBravo]

Originally Posted by ForceofWill

As stated, sounds like the Hobby Shop on base. However, I think it's a great idea for people that don't have access to the military ones. In addition to the food, add a cigar lounge, strip club, gun store and you'll have a place men will never leave.

Sounds like a great idea... Yup sounds like on the military post, sept they don't serve beer or have many hookers... You will have hookers right? Jk
Would be a great idea if it proved feasible in your local

[80MPHdownhill]

You'd have to realistically pencil out revenue and expense projections.

I can't see how this could even come close to breaking even. But how about showing what you think the revenues and expenses would be? It would be interesting to see.

Just the rent anywhere in LA will be a killer. And, most places will require a 2+ year lease commitment, with you signing a personal guarantee.

Insurance will be very expensive - a place where a potentially unlimited number of amateur mechanics will be working on machinery will be expensive to insure.

And all of the other expenses, regulations, etc. of running a biz in California and in L.A.

Also you'd need some fairly significant up front capital to get this going.

But the biggest issue I see is I don't see where the monthly revenue is going to come from. You aren't going to get there at $35/hour. If you charge a monthly membership, and it is any significant number, IMO you'll have a hard time getting people to pay.

The result sounds like fun, but IMO the only way to make it run long term would be to have a very rich wife.

[milhouse]

Originally Posted by 80MPHdownhill

The result sounds like fun, but IMO the only way to make it run long term would be to have a very rich wife.

Haha... yeah, it looks like this is the same conclusion that Major_Paine came to in his original research a year ago. I just revived the long-dead thread because I was searching to see if anyone else had a good solution to the apartment-living-but-still-want-to-wrench problem.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by milhouse

Haha... yeah, it looks like this is the same conclusion that Major_Paine came to in his original research a year ago. I just revived the long-dead thread because I was searching to see if anyone else had a good solution to the apartment-living-but-still-want-to-wrench problem.

Find a friend with a garage. It's that simple.

[milhouse]

Originally Posted by Jono

Find a friend with a garage. It's that simple.

Yeah, I guess this is more of a recent transplant problem. I just moved to the area, so it might be awhile before someone is willing to open their garage to a greasy motorcycle for hours at a time. But thanks for the novel solution... make friends!

[dino74]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

A shop in San Diego did the same thing and closed shop a year later.

Originally Posted by 80MPHdownhill

Insurance will be very expensive - a place where a potentially unlimited number of amateur mechanics will be working on machinery will be expensive to insure.

I was talking to a guy that worked at that San Diego shop. I think he said the insurance was $2000 a month and that was for non-powered tools only.

[80MPHdownhill]

Originally Posted by milhouse

Haha... yeah, it looks like this is the same conclusion that Major_Paine came to in his original research a year ago. I just revived the long-dead thread because I was searching to see if anyone else had a good solution to the apartment-living-but-still-want-to-wrench problem.

Your apartment has a front door, doesn't it?

I worked on my gpz550 in my apartment when I was in college in the '80s.

And, my apartment was an *upstairs* unit!

[milhouse]

Originally Posted by 80MPHdownhill

Your apartment has a front door, doesn't it?

I worked on my gpz550 in my apartment when I was in college in the '80s.

And, my apartment was an *upstairs* unit!

Haha.. It does have a front door, but its 3rd floor, no elevator. Also, the GF would not be as happy as I would be sharing the living room with the ninja.

I'm just going to do all my work in the parking structure anyways, keeping it to the basic stuff and only during very early or late hours. Should be fine, everyone seems pretty relaxed in my apartment.

[Joshorilla]

Great idea, though you will face some hurdles.

Liability insurance, novices renting out a space where they have lots of access to potentially lethal equiptment will lead to accidents, you will need to ensure you aren't liable for injury or death from someone leaving a chuck in a drill press and it taking someone's eye out.

You equiptment will break, people treat their own tools like heirlooms, they treat others like garbage, you will go through spanners, allen wrenches, torque wrenches especially like water.

You will need to do a lot of cleaning, spilt oil, metal shavings etc require a good amount of time to clean up properly, so that's lots of hard work.

The people who are inclined to do maintenance will more than likely have their own tools and a place to use them, you will attract the absolute novice whom will be the most likely to do damage to themselves and the equiptment and the shop, avoid this by upselling yourself to appeal to a wider audience, and run separate prices for hourly hire of larger machines such as the drill press or pneumatic tools.

I would sell yourself as more of a "biker bar" or cafe with a small communal workshop rather than a workshop with a cafe, you will make more money selling coffee with assorted baked goods and pastries due to the greater turnaround time and the higher density of customer to square footage, all you would need is a freezer for the muffins and cookies, an oven to bake them, a fridge, coffee machines and a display unit and you've got a cafe, imagine the cafe racer culture in England, they rode to get coffee and have a chat in a crowded smokey motorway service station.

So, tldr, focus on cafe culture, bike / biker friendly and by that I don't mean SOA harley style biker, I mean you will want bike parking spaces, hooks at the table to store helmets out the way, with a small workshop for basic tasks at an half hourly rate. Don't do subscriptions as that will put people off coming just for a coffee and atmosphere which will be your biggest earner, treat the workshop as a bonus.

The bike cafe's that do really well here are typically these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greasy_...United_Kingdom although I can't imagine them doing well in america, however i've been to denny's, and that's not far off.

[areifel]

I honestly can not see this business bringing in enough revenue to cover expenses to break-even. Don't get me wrong, this would be wonderful for the consumer, but for you, as the business owner, it'll be very tough to earn a profit. There is way too much overhead (rent, insurance, utilities, accounting fees, advertising fees, taxes, etc.) If you really want to pursue this endeavorer, i would start small. Maybe start out of your garage (if you have one) and advertise by word of mouth and social media. And then i would go from there...


It's not impossible, it'll just be rather difficult for the long haul. Do as much research as possible, draw a business plan, and rationally try to decide if it's a good pursuit.

Best of luck!

[quicklooker]

I think it's a good idea in theory . I think you would be barely profitable during peak popularity and during the winter months you'd be outright broke.

I would LOVE there to be a shop like this, though, it's just hard to implement if it doesn’t have an auxiliary source of income.

As with a lot of folks though, I usually buy my own tools and do work in any empty space I can find.

Originally Posted by areifel

It's not impossible, it'll just be rather difficult for the long haul. Do as much research as possible, draw a business plan, and rationally try to decide if it's a good pursuit. !

What he said.

I would have it ALL listed out in great detail. It'd probably take a year of thorough information gathering just to know if it's even doable but at least you won't be out of pocket even a dollar.

[hybridkid]

Save your money.....most people are going DIY with the least amount of overhead as possible...it would do better as a car shop that charges by the bay ...but you can go to the base and already do this for dirt cheap... You would not make out being stationary...maybe a better idea would be creating a portable fold-out work container like the various storage solutions and selling that....I mean, motorcycles are so compact you can work on them anywhere already. Why not create a compact work solution ( like renting a motorcycle pod) and offer a tool rental service instead with it? I'm guessing you could market the bundle together competitively

Shop vac or air compressor
Small air compressor
Oil or drain pans
Common sockets and wrenches
Microfiber shop rags
Newspapers
Ramp

You could rent it out like a uhaul service and it could be a great option for folks in Cali. You might even be able to buy a pod and convert one into a mobile shop or convert a trailer with a hydraulic system . Not an engineer in this stuff but figured it wouldn't be too hard with max weight considerations ...

[alex.s]

there was a movie made about a shop somewhere that is 'open' to the public. too lazy to find it right now. i think the shop was in LA...... maybe london... something with an L.

[LT505]

I think this is a really cool idea. The problem I see with it is that I think it will be hard to get the cost down far enough to be worth it for people while still making a profit.

A big point of doing work yourself is saving money.

[five10]

Moto Shop, SF.
site: http://www.bayareamotoshop.com/
reviews: http://www.yelp.com/biz/moto-shop-south-san-francisco-2

Do this in LA

[fishdip]

Do not serve any sort of alcohol you are asking for problems if you do. Id also say make sure you have a very good way to keep track of each tool some one is using like a id and a valid cc that you can put a 1.00 hold on it so if they don't bring the tool back ore brake it you can charge them for it.