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Old November 4th, 2012, 09:26 PM   #1
brendandubs
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Bought first bike and 1 day later it won't start: do I have a junk bike?

I bought my first bike last night, a 2005 ninja 250 from a guy on craigslist. My buddy, an experienced rider, took the bike for a test spin, inspected it, and didn't notice anything majorly wrong. It was obvious that the bike had been dropped at least once, minor dent on the side and handlebar damage, but my buddy advised that snagging it for $2k was a solid deal. I now am wondering if I bought a junk bike.

The seller was trying to jumpstart the bike when we showed up to buy it (claimed to be selling it for his brother who stopped riding it 2 months ago), which should have been a warning sign. But we rode it around for 15 minutes after getting some juice in the battery, and the bike seemed fine. I then took it on the highway for a solid 40-50 minute spin to get it back to my place in SF. Someone honked at me in SF to let me know the tail light was out (scary, but easily fixable).

When I took it for another spin this morning, I'd have to wait a significant amount of time after starting the bike in neutral before I could switch to first gear. If I changed gears too soon, the engine would just stop. The next hiccup came at stop lights. Speeding up from a complete stop, it'd take the bike 4 seconds to accelerate above 5 mph. I'd go from stop sign to 5 mph, wait 4 seconds, and then I'd feel the bike give me some power.

I park the bike and an hour later I notice that there is a small puddle below the kickstand and exhaust. I googled and it looks like a lot of other people have reported similar issues and it can be fixed.

I tried taking it for another spin this afternoon and made it 2 blocks before it sputtered out. I couldn't get it to go above 5 mph and it would slow down then speed up like it was about to die. I pull over to the side of the road, hit the kill switch, and then try starting the bike again and couldn't get it to first gear without the engine dying. Tried this for half an hour to no avail. I street parked the bike and walked 3 miles back to my apartment. I am hoping I can fix the bike, but my gut is telling me I should have done better due diligence.

Does this sound like something that I can fix on my own? Or should I get it towed and have a professional check it out tomorrow?
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Old November 4th, 2012, 09:50 PM   #2
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First step: clean the carbs. If needed, rebuild them as well. It's been sitting, and it clearly flooded the carbs enough to spew out of the carb drain. Mine did the same thing the first night I had it. It had been sitting for 5 years.

I'm pretty sure that cleaning/rebuilding the carbs will make a huge difference
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Old November 4th, 2012, 10:24 PM   #3
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This might be a stupid question but it helps to have as much info as possible. Are you using the choke to start the bike? And if so are you leaving it on for the first few minutes after you take off?

I know when I first start my ninja for the day and if I don't use the choke and try and take off it kinda hiccups.

If I was you I would definitely clean the carbs and then run some Seafoam through a tank of gas.


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Old November 4th, 2012, 10:30 PM   #4
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Well, if the bike does not start, it is not the reason of being any bike the Junk bike. Probably there may some problem related to the carbs and battery. So, check out all these. Good luck.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 01:42 AM   #5
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just a stupid question but is it low on fuel?
might need to switch the fuel to the reserve

When buying a used bike/car i always assume that the general maintenance was not done.

I always recommend
full tank of fresh gas
oil/filter
plugs
carb clean
air filter
and lube everything
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Old November 5th, 2012, 06:03 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by brendandubs View Post
I bought my first bike last night, a 2005 ninja 250 from a guy on craigslist. My buddy, an experienced rider, took the bike for a test spin, inspected it, and didn't notice anything majorly wrong. It was obvious that the bike had been dropped at least once, minor dent on the side and handlebar damage, but my buddy advised that snagging it for $2k was a solid deal. I now am wondering if I bought a junk bike.

Is your buddy related to the seller?
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Old November 5th, 2012, 06:19 AM   #7
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No you didn't buy a junk bike.

How many miles on it? If the miles are unusually low, expect carb problems. If high, there could be other problems. Unusually low means less than 7K miles on a bike that old. Depending on the mileage, you may also need to do a valve adjustment. This is due every 6K miles.

The fact that you said he was trying to jump it sounds like there may be an undisclosed electrical problem. If he was jumping from a running car, he may have burned it out right in front of you. Keep an eye on your charging circuit to make sure it still works.

Also, don't use the kill switch to stop the engine. That is for emergencies. It does not shut off the headlight and runs your battery down. Use the key.

Like the others said, make sure you know how to use the choke properly. It sounds like from your comments that you were having trouble mostly when it was cold.

Whether you can do the work yourself depends greatly on your mechanical aptitude.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 02:12 PM   #8
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Also, don't use the kill switch to stop the engine. That is for emergencies. It does not shut off the headlight and runs your battery down.
There is nothing wrong with using the kill switch. That is the way that the MSF course teaches, and it became a habit for me.

Both ways work, but neither is better or worse. The devil's advocate to your method is that if you never use the kill switch, how will it be your first reaction in an emergency? Also, the headlight is only on for the amount of time it takes to reach from the handlebar to the key; about 10 seconds, including putting the side stand down. It won't kill your battery unless you hit the kill switch and forget about it for an hour.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 03:08 PM   #9
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Someone already said it but was his car running when he jumpstarted it?? It's hard to get info out of a seller as they will usually say the bike is fine and play the ignorance card but I would try and ask him if he noticed anything was wrong with it. Sounds like he already started with "I'm selling it for my brother."

For 2k I wouldn't say it's a steal I got mine for $1600 with very minor problems so I'd say it was priced about average.

I would check the battery to see if it is charging (properly) while you're running it and find out if that puddle is gas. If it is leaking gas from the carbs you might just need to clean them but the tail light out is a separate (electrical) problem. Check to see if the wires are all connected underneath the seat to the rear. There's only 6 or so wires I believe.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 03:15 PM   #10
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Yeah -- what is the puddle underneath the bike? Is it gasoline, water, coolant, or oil? Battery fluid maybe? :O

One thing I would try if you haven't already is replacing the spark plugs or at least confirming that you have spark.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 03:18 PM   #11
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There is nothing wrong with using the kill switch. That is the way that the MSF course teaches, and it became a habit for me.
I've heard more than a few people cite the MSF course as the source for this misinformation. And that was preceded by something like "Stopped for a drawbridge and didn't want to overheat the engine..." or "killed the engine for a long road construction delay...". And then ended with "... and now my battery is dead, WTF?" Our tiny batteries can only power the headlights for about 5-10 minutes.

Also, if you get distracted and forget to take the key out, you may come out of the store to find your bike missing.

Always use the key to turn off the engine. The big red switch is for emergencies. Its always in the same spot on street bikes whereas the key can be anywhere. The red switch is a safety thing and I'm not sure how long they have been putting it on there.

As for emergencies, I will be adding a tip over switch to my bike with the EFI kit to kill the engine if it ends up on its side. Without a tip over switch, the bike will continue to run on its side since there are no carbs to flood and kill the engine. The engine WILL be destroyed with as little as 30 seconds of running on its side due to no oil being circulated.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 03:21 PM   #12
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I bought my first bike last night, a 2005 ninja 250 from a guy on craigslist. My buddy, an experienced rider, took the bike for a test spin, inspected it, and didn't notice anything majorly wrong. It was obvious that the bike had been dropped at least once, minor dent on the side and handlebar damage, but my buddy advised that snagging it for $2k was a solid deal. I now am wondering if I bought a junk bike.

The seller was trying to jumpstart the bike when we showed up to buy it (claimed to be selling it for his brother who stopped riding it 2 months ago), which should have been a warning sign. But we rode it around for 15 minutes after getting some juice in the battery, and the bike seemed fine. I then took it on the highway for a solid 40-50 minute spin to get it back to my place in SF. Someone honked at me in SF to let me know the tail light was out (scary, but easily fixable).

When I took it for another spin this morning, I'd have to wait a significant amount of time after starting the bike in neutral before I could switch to first gear. If I changed gears too soon, the engine would just stop. The next hiccup came at stop lights. Speeding up from a complete stop, it'd take the bike 4 seconds to accelerate above 5 mph. I'd go from stop sign to 5 mph, wait 4 seconds, and then I'd feel the bike give me some power.

I park the bike and an hour later I notice that there is a small puddle below the kickstand and exhaust. I googled and it looks like a lot of other people have reported similar issues and it can be fixed.

I tried taking it for another spin this afternoon and made it 2 blocks before it sputtered out. I couldn't get it to go above 5 mph and it would slow down then speed up like it was about to die. I pull over to the side of the road, hit the kill switch, and then try starting the bike again and couldn't get it to first gear without the engine dying. Tried this for half an hour to no avail. I street parked the bike and walked 3 miles back to my apartment. I am hoping I can fix the bike, but my gut is telling me I should have done better due diligence.

Does this sound like something that I can fix on my own? Or should I get it towed and have a professional check it out tomorrow?
find a more knowledgeable bike mechanic to bring with you next time. you can find much better deals than that, but now that you've bought it it's kinda too late.
did you change the gas? if its 2 month old gas it will do what you are talking about. old gas partly evaporates leaving a gummy residue that clogs up the carbs. if you didn't put the gas thats in it in, empty the gas, put a new tank in with seafoam and see if it helps. it will probably take some time to work its self through. if it doesn't start clearing up after running a bit (make sure you try to rev it to get the new gas through the different jets) then you might need to take the carbs apart and clean them. i think shops typically charge like $100 for that
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Old November 5th, 2012, 03:25 PM   #13
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also, arguing over which kill switch is "correct" to use is meaningless. there are 3 kill switches on the bike. it doesn't matter which one you use to stop the engine. but don't leave your lights on after you stop your engine. if you follow "msf recommended procedure", you kill the bike, set it on side stand then turn off the key. that's triggering all 3 kill switches. talk about redundant.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 03:31 PM   #14
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I've heard more than a few people cite the MSF course as the source for this misinformation.
...misinformation. Relax dude.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 09:48 AM   #15
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An update: I had the bike towed. It turns out there was an oil leak, so I'm having the bike checked out at a local shop. The people at the repair shop said that the leak was pretty bad and I'll get a diagnostic report on Thursday. I don't have much cash, so depending on the diagnostic I might just try and order the parts and do the fix myself.

I did not use the choke the first two times I rode the bike. I watched a quick youtube video while roadside (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2iqpbcMtMg) on using the choke to heat up the engine. The engine would still die even after letting the bike idle for a few minutes.

The gas in the tank was what the guy had left me; I had not changed it.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 10:03 AM   #16
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try to get some money back from the guy who ripped you off on the bike. then make your friend who led you wrong buy you a night of drinks
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Old November 6th, 2012, 10:22 AM   #17
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try to get some money back from the guy who ripped you off on the bike. then make your friend who led you wrong buy you a night of drinks
The shop said to wait until the diagnostic before taking out the baseball bat.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 10:24 AM   #18
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im curious, where was it leaking from


there are a few "common" oil leaks that can happen to the 250 engine that really aren't any cause for alarm, and if the gas was 2 months old that would explain away your other issues.

but i still think you should try to get some money back from the seller lol
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Old November 6th, 2012, 10:26 AM   #19
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im curious, where was it leaking from
It's hard to tell. I started feeling my hand around everywhere yesterday and could feel oil pretty much everywhere.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 10:39 AM   #20
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are you sure it was oil and not just ... crud? chain lube tends to get ... well, everywhere not to mention the crap that gets thrown up from the road
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Old November 6th, 2012, 10:54 AM   #21
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are you sure it was oil and not just ... crud? chain lube tends to get ... well, everywhere not to mention the crap that gets thrown up from the road
I am a novice, so cannot say with 100% confidence. Both the tow guy and the first person to take a look at it at the shop agreed it is oil.

Was mostly trusting my buddy, but I am not sure I can blame him. I don't know if I could've messed up the bike bad enough to cause an oil leak by not waiting for it to warm up enough. Or maybe it was just **** timing and this guy was unaware of problems with the bike. The bike has 12000 miles. So I'm going to hear what the shop says, and if they say I got ****ed, I'll call the guy up and tell him the situation and will demand $$ back.

I am just beating myself up for not buying new, because when all the repairs are done and you factor in the value of time, I probably would have saved money.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 11:00 AM   #22
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buying new is always a rip off. best way is to buy used in winter time and go check out the bikes with a bike mechanic. if you guys were riding the bike around before, it's probably nothing major.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 11:07 AM   #23
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The bike has 12000 miles.

I am just beating myself up for not buying new, because when all the repairs are done and you factor in the value of time, I probably would have saved money.
12K miles on these bikes is nothing.

You should be beating yourself up for not buying a well-maintained used bike, not a used bike in general. A good used bike should require zero repairs, other than possibly some fluids changed.

You spent far too much money considering the mileage and condition. I bought an '03 in 2010 with 6K miles on it in like new condition for $1,900. That is the equivalent of your '05 in 2012. Except yours was dropped, did not start when you first saw it, and clearly wasn't taken care of that well. I would have offered him $1,500 at the most. But then again I wouldn't have bought a bike that was dropped and didn't start when I went to see it.

I would try to get your money back from the seller. But please don't give up on buying used. It makes a LOT more sense for a beginner.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 11:49 AM   #24
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I bought an '03 in 2010 with 6K miles on it in like new condition for $1,900.
not to talk **** or anything but that's still too much money
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Old November 6th, 2012, 01:16 PM   #25
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not to talk **** or anything but that's still too much money
I'd buy at that price from an owner that maintained his bike well which doesn't seem to be the case here.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 03:56 PM   #26
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I am a novice, so cannot say with 100% confidence. Both the tow guy and the first person to take a look at it at the shop agreed it is oil.

Was mostly trusting my buddy, but I am not sure I can blame him. I don't know if I could've messed up the bike bad enough to cause an oil leak by not waiting for it to warm up enough. Or maybe it was just **** timing and this guy was unaware of problems with the bike. The bike has 12000 miles. So I'm going to hear what the shop says, and if they say I got ****ed, I'll call the guy up and tell him the situation and will demand $$ back.

I am just beating myself up for not buying new, because when all the repairs are done and you factor in the value of time, I probably would have saved money.
The bike is not junk, but yes, you got screwed. A guy on here bought a Ninja 250 in similar condition for $200. A friend of mine got his for $1000 in mint condition and 5K miles. Just to beat a dead horse, but you really should have done your homework better. I trust you got a clear title??? And to add insult to injury, the MSRP on that year was only about $3000 brand new.

As far as the oil leak, it could be nothing serious, but the fact that it was leaking at all means that the previous owner never maintained it. Not only that, but he likely abused it.

Honestly, I think the 15000 miles on the odometer is fake. Do the numbers look uneven? That is usually a good indicator that the odometer was rolled back. Simply put, even a bike that isn't maintained well isn't going to leak like that with only 15K miles. Mine has 23K and not a single drip.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 04:02 PM   #27
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The bike is not junk, but yes, you got screwed. A guy on here bought a Ninja 250 in similar condition for $200. A friend of mine got his for $1000 in mint condition and 5K miles. Just to beat a dead horse, but you really should have done your homework better. I trust you got a clear title??? And to add insult to injury, the MSRP on that year was only about $3000 brand new.

As far as the oil leak, it could be nothing serious, but the fact that it was leaking at all means that the previous owner never maintained it. Not only that, but he likely abused it.

Honestly, I think the 15000 miles on the odometer is fake. Do the numbers look uneven? That is usually a good indicator that the odometer was rolled back. Simply put, even a bike that isn't maintained well isn't going to leak like that with only 15K miles. Mine has 23K and not a single drip.
could mean lots of different things depending on where its actually leaking from (if it is in fact leaking oil and not something else) it could be mechanically perfect but rebuilt without replacing a gasket or the bottom was removed and replaced without a good dose of kawibond. might be something simple like a bad external shift mechanism seal or output shaft seal. if he is really lucky the crank case breather is open and it just had too much oil in it... really hard to say anything about a mystery leak without knowing where its coming from
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Old November 6th, 2012, 04:07 PM   #28
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Very likely the leak is from the airbox. 15K is a point where if the po didn't drain the air filter box that it would start leaking.

Yes, the OP spent too much. Nothing really he can do about it now.

Change all the fluids, give it a really good cleaning and maintain it properly from now on and it should last.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 04:10 PM   #29
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doesn't the air box have a drain with a line that leads down by the rear shock? my bike has 30k miles and the airbox has never had any fluids in it?
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Old November 6th, 2012, 04:12 PM   #30
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The drain line on the pregen is plugged at the end. Kind of a stupid system if you ask me. At least let it run down to the chain or something and be useful.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 04:14 PM   #31
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Too bad one of you guys that live over there couldn't have looked at it for him. Any one of us could pinpoint that leak in under 5 minutes.

Oh well...

I don't know much about California laws over there, but do they have anything like Florida's Lemon law? He might be able to force the guy to take it back with a full refund.

FWIW, if the PO never did a valve adjustment, its going to idle bad.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 04:44 PM   #32
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My advise to the OP would be to clean the bike up well. Then the origination of any excess fluids is really easy to detect. But he already has it in the shop so they should be able to help him out (albeit at a $$).

Come back with what the shop says and pics if you have them. Then we can help you get it all straight.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 04:47 PM   #33
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If you add too much oil you'll find oil in the airbox as well right?

Kind of like a car's pcv system just without the pcv valve.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 07:27 AM   #34
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not to talk **** or anything but that's still too much money
Maybe it was too much money. But I rode that thing over 7K miles and when I sold it for $1,800 a year later, it didn't seem like too bad of a deal.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 09:39 AM   #35
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california has a similar lemon law
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Old November 7th, 2012, 12:30 PM   #36
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Is it possible that the PO simply didn't tighten the oil drain or filter bolt and all the oil drained out? I haven't seen one indication that the oil level showed any oil at all since the puddle, so I assume that it was ridden with no oil after a catastrophic oil failure which could be bad news.

OP: Did you check the oil level before riding? Yes, fluids under vehicles are common. It doesn't mean they can be dismissed!

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california has a similar lemon law
Does it apply to private sellers?
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Old November 7th, 2012, 12:35 PM   #37
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http://oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/lemon
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Old November 7th, 2012, 12:49 PM   #38
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Might be worth talking to an attorney. A lot of them will give you a free initial consultation.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 04:41 PM   #39
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Any word from the shop?
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Old November 10th, 2012, 03:41 PM   #40
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And the shop said?????

@brendandubs how about an update. What did the shop say?
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