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Old June 12th, 2013, 06:16 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asspire View Post
..........edit: you'll wanna do that with the engine running....
Oops, that's right!!!

I forgot to tell you that the test for the switch had to be done with the engine running.

So, we cannot rule the left hand switch as good yet.

The link of post #11 explains why you will not see juice at those wires until after the engine is rotating.
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Old June 12th, 2013, 09:16 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
Oops, that's right!!!

I forgot to tell you that the test for the switch had to be done with the engine running.

So, we cannot rule the left hand switch as good yet.

The link of post #11 explains why you will not see juice at those wires until after the engine is rotating.
the engine was running when I tested that And got nothing.

also when I tested the voltage in my last post. I got a zero reading when I had the positive on the yellow/blue wire leading to the relay and negative on the negative battery.

Think my headlight relay is bad / dead?
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Old June 12th, 2013, 10:17 AM   #43
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Sorry for assuming that the engine was off

If the high beam is working, the relay must be working (at least for that bulb).

The relay is nothing more than a switch that turns on when voltage is applied to the internal coil.

The reading in the battery is low, but the lights should shine some at least.

Let me think what tests we can do with the voltmeter next.
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Old June 12th, 2013, 10:25 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
Sorry for assuming that the engine was off

If the high beam is working, the relay must be working (at least for that bulb).

The relay is nothing more than a switch that turns on when voltage is applied to the internal coil.

The reading in the battery is low, but the lights should shine some at least.

Let me think what tests we can do with the voltmeter next.
it's cool man.

just to state, no beams are working at all at this point, and the blue light on the dash for high beam doesnt work either. For awhile only my high beam would come after the bike was running for 10 mins. If I shut it off and turned it back on after that chances are the high beam would not come back on instantly. My low beam hasn't worked for a while now.

as of right now no beam will turn on. And my battery voltage being low is crazy because I just bought a new battery I wonder whats going on with that.
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Old June 12th, 2013, 10:39 AM   #45
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check the red wire coming out of the diode pack, should be a voltage when running on that line..... I think, will need to verify when I get home
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Old June 12th, 2013, 10:57 AM   #46
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check the red wire coming out of the diode pack, should be a voltage when running on that line..... I think, will need to verify when I get home
will do later once I get my meter back.. it's my fathers that he uses at work. Ill have to pick it up from him again.

Does it mean anything since I got a 0 reading going to my relay? Does that mean the relay is bad?

the diode pack is the thing that sits over the battery correct?
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Old June 12th, 2013, 11:09 AM   #47
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yes, the yellow wire that goes into the diode pack is from the stator, when the bike is started it feeds power thru the diode into the red wire which powers the coil for the headlight relay, so that means that if there is voltage at the red wire when the bike is running, we can assume the relay is at fault, if there is no power, then possible bad diode or bad stator/shorted stator since your running voltage is so low.


I'm doing write up on replacing/test stator and voltage regulator which I'll post when I get home
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Old June 12th, 2013, 11:13 AM   #48
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will do later once I get my meter back.. it's my fathers that he uses at work. Ill have to pick it up from him again.

Does it mean anything since I got a 0 reading going to my relay? Does that mean the relay is bad?

the diode pack is the thing that sits over the battery correct?
So, we don't have any headlight, even with the engine rotating.

1) Ground the negative leg of your voltmeter.

2) Turn the ignition key to the on position, but don't start the engine.

3) With the positive leg of the voltmeter, touch the naked metal dots on the top of the fuse #5 (headlight / 10 A / gray wire)

4) If volts' reading there (value does not matter), follow that grey wire up to the headlight relay. That relay has our gray wire, one blue/yellow, one yellow/red and one red. We will need to measure the voltage at the yellow/red and at the blue/yellow.

5) Start the engine.

6) The yellow/red and the gray wires should have measurable voltage with the engine rotating.
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Old June 12th, 2013, 11:45 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asspire View Post
yes, the yellow wire that goes into the diode pack is from the stator, when the bike is started it feeds power thru the diode into the red wire which powers the coil for the headlight relay, so that means that if there is voltage at the red wire when the bike is running, we can assume the relay is at fault, if there is no power, then possible bad diode or bad stator/shorted stator since your running voltage is so low.


I'm doing write up on replacing/test stator and voltage regulator which I'll post when I get home
Will test the red wire coming out of the diode this evening and see what it does. Hopefully there is power on the red wire, and my relay is shot! lol. I've never wanted there to be a problem this bad before ! Just want to find out what it is exactly and fix it! I'm no electrician

if there is no power on the red wire can we assume its either a bad diode or a faulty stator (this sounds bad hope it's not that haha).

was I correct on checking running voltage by putting the positive side of the tester on the positive side of the battery and the negative part of the tester on the negative side of the battery? and checking that reading?

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So, we don't have any headlight, even with the engine rotating.

1) Ground the negative leg of your voltmeter.

2) Turn the ignition key to the on position, but don't start the engine.

3) With the positive leg of the voltmeter, touch the naked metal dots on the top of the fuse #5 (headlight / 10 A / gray wire)

4) If volts' reading there (value does not matter), follow that grey wire up to the headlight relay. That relay has our gray wire, one blue/yellow, one yellow/red and one red. We will need to measure the voltage at the yellow/red and at the blue/yellow.

5) Start the engine.

6) The yellow/red and the gray wires should have measurable voltage with the engine rotating.

I kind of did step #4 last night. At the blue and yellow I got a 0 reading with the bike running.

Will do everything you mentioned this evening once I get a hold of my tester.

Thanks again guys. I'm about ready to take this guy to the shop! But I like learning even though it is kind of stressful
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Old June 12th, 2013, 11:52 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by walty87 View Post
...........I kind of did step #4 last night. At the blue and yellow I got a 0 reading with the bike running.

Will do everything you mentioned this evening once I get a hold of my tester.

Thanks again guys. I'm about ready to take this guy to the shop! But I like learning even though it is kind of stressful
Yes, with engine off, blue/yellow should measure zero.
However, with engine rotating, blue/yellow should measure close to 12v.

You are welcome

No, no, we are almost there !!!

It is either the relay of the diode.
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Old June 12th, 2013, 12:00 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
Yes, with engine off, blue/yellow should measure zero.
However, with engine rotating, blue/yellow should measure close to 12v.

You are welcome

No, no, we are almost there !!!

It is either the relay of the diode.
well then i'm about to order both parts. Might as well

I'll test tonight and let you guys know. Ty
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Old June 12th, 2013, 12:14 PM   #52
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Keep us posted and maybe do a write up for your specific problem and how it was solved. it is unlikely you are the only one =P

Thanks for the thread, bookmarked.
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Old June 12th, 2013, 02:11 PM   #53
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I can and deff will do a write up of everything I've done and went through once I actually figure out!
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Old June 12th, 2013, 04:09 PM   #54
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Andrew,

I am at home and ready for the final test
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Old June 12th, 2013, 10:05 PM   #55
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Andrew,

I am at home and ready for the final test
alright so i finally got to do some tests.

again i tested the yellow/blue wire coming out of the relay and i actually got a 1 reading.

then i tested the blue/yellow wire going into the diode and also got a 1 reading. i deff got a zero yesterday. -pic 1 and2

finally i tested both of the red wires coming out of the diode and i got a 2 reading. - pic 4

the last pic reading a zero is just to make sure i have this thing on the correct setting lol. -pic 5
Attached Images
File Type: jpg final1.jpg (101.4 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg final2.jpg (113.8 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg final3.jpg (56.9 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg final4.jpg (115.8 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg final5.jpg (83.2 KB, 5 views)

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Old June 13th, 2013, 06:41 AM   #56
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alright so i finally got to do some tests.

again i tested the yellow/blue wire coming out of the relay and i actually got a 1 reading.

then i tested the blue/yellow wire going into the diode and also got a 1 reading. i deff got a zero yesterday. -pic 1 and2

finally i tested both of the red wires coming out of the diode and i got a 2 reading. - pic 4

the last pic reading a zero is just to make sure i have this thing on the correct setting lol. -pic 5
Was that with engine off or rotating?
What about the other tests?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
So, we don't have any headlight, even with the engine rotating.

1) Ground the negative leg of your voltmeter.

2) Turn the ignition key to the on position, but don't start the engine.

3) With the positive leg of the voltmeter, touch the naked metal dots on the top of the fuse #5 (headlight / 10 A / gray wire)

4) If volts' reading there (value does not matter), follow that grey wire up to the headlight relay. That relay has our gray wire, one blue/yellow, one yellow/red and one red. We will need to measure the voltage at the yellow/red and at the blue/yellow.

5) Start the engine.

6) The yellow/red and the gray wires should have measurable voltage with the engine rotating.
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Old June 13th, 2013, 08:31 AM   #57
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Quote:
Was that with engine off or rotating?
Engine on and rotating.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
So, we don't have any headlight, even with the engine rotating.

1) Ground the negative leg of your voltmeter.

2) Turn the ignition key to the on position, but don't start the engine.

3) With the positive leg of the voltmeter, touch the naked metal dots on the top of the fuse #5 (headlight / 10 A / gray wire)

4) If volts' reading there (value does not matter), follow that grey wire up to the headlight relay. That relay has our gray wire, one blue/yellow, one yellow/red and one red. We will need to measure the voltage at the yellow/red and at the blue/yellow.

5) Start the engine.

6) The yellow/red and the gray wires should have measurable voltage with the engine rotating.
@Motofool

sorry i was too tired to finish all of that last night.. did those right now though

1.) By grounding the bike negative i'm putting it on the negative side of the battery. Whenever I ground the negative to the frame of the bike I get zero readings on all tests. Hope thats ok.

3.) Touched the bottom of grey wire on fuse#5 headlight / 10a with the positive side and the negative on the bike negative battery with the bike off and got an 11.5 reading. When i touched the top plastic red part of the fuse i got a 0. (i did switch the fuse with a spare already). Not sure which way you wanted me to do it.

4.)i got a 11.5 reading at the blue/yellow wire with bike off. got a zero at the red/yellow wire with bike off

6.)gray had 11.5 reading while the bike was on at the headlight relay. the yellow and red wire had a zero reading with the bike on.

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Old June 13th, 2013, 10:01 AM   #58
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Cool

1.) By grounding the bike negative i'm putting it on the negative side of the battery. Whenever I ground the negative to the frame of the bike I get zero readings on all tests. Hope thats ok.
Yes, black-yellow wires, bike frame and negative post of the battery is all the same.

3.) Touched the bottom of grey wire on fuse#5 headlight / 10a with the positive side and the negative on the bike negative battery with the bike off and got an 11.5 reading. When i touched the top plastic red part of the fuse i got a 0. (i did switch the fuse with a spare already). Not sure which way you wanted me to do it.
This was just for checking the fuse. You have replaced it. OK

4.)i got a 11.5 reading at the blue/yellow wire with bike off. got a zero at the red/yellow wire with bike off
Blue-yellow should read zero, otherwise one of the headlights should be on, since this is the one reaching that left hand switch that you tested before. Do you mind rechecking that and the lights?
Red-yellow should read zero


6.)gray had 11.5 reading while the bike was on at the headlight relay. the yellow and red wire had a zero reading with the bike on.
That is OK
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Old June 13th, 2013, 10:08 AM   #59
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@Motofool

sorry sorry! At the blue/yellow wire going into the headlight relay im only getting .1 or was it 1. reading with the engine off and on.
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Old June 13th, 2013, 10:19 AM   #60
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OK, everything cool so far.

Make a U-shape with a heavy wire to make a bridge.

Next, lets start the engine and measure the same wires.

Yellow-red should have close to zero.

Grey, blue-yellow and red should have close to 12v.
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Old June 13th, 2013, 10:26 AM   #61
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OK, everything cool so far.

Make a U-shape with a heavy wire to make a bridge.

Next, lets start the engine and measure the same wires.

Yellow-red should have close to zero.

Grey, blue-yellow and red should have close to 12v.
What did you want me to jump with the wire?

With the engine on the yellow blue coming out of the relay only has 1 or .1 on it. Is that coming in or out? Think it's the relay??
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Old June 13th, 2013, 10:38 AM   #62
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What did you want me to jump with the wire?

With the engine on the yellow blue coming out of the relay only has 1 or .1 on it. Is that coming in or out? Think it's the relay??
We will know next.

What about the red wire?

With the engine running, jump the grey and the blue-yellow wires at the relay (use a heavy gauge wire) and check if one of the lights come on while you do that (Don't worry, nothing will be damaged because what you will do with the jumper is what the relay does automatically).

If so, switch between hi and low beam and see if both work properly.

Then, with the bridge still there and the headlight on, stop the engine with the kill switch, leaving the key-switch on and see what happen to the lights (stay on or turn off).

I am assuming that you have new bulbs in place now.
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Old June 13th, 2013, 12:26 PM   #63
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We will know next.

What about the red wire?

With the engine running, jump the grey and the blue-yellow wires at the relay (use a heavy gauge wire) and check if one of the lights come on while you do that (Don't worry, nothing will be damaged because what you will do with the jumper is what the relay does automatically).

If so, switch between hi and low beam and see if both work properly.

Then, with the bridge still there and the headlight on, stop the engine with the kill switch, leaving the key-switch on and see what happen to the lights (stay on or turn off).

I am assuming that you have new bulbs in place now.
So just stick a heavy wire into the headlight relay entry of the yellow/blue wire into where the grey wire leds into the headlight relay?

Yes new bulbs. And the red wire had voltage. Want to say 11.5
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Old June 13th, 2013, 12:47 PM   #64
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So just stick a heavy wire into the headlight relay entry of the yellow/blue wire into where the grey wire leds into the headlight relay?

Yes new bulbs. And the red wire had voltage. Want to say 11.5
Perfect !

Important: See what the lights do and switch Lo-Hi-Lo
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Old June 13th, 2013, 01:36 PM   #65
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Perfect !

Important: See what the lights do and switch Lo-Hi-Lo
Ok will do soon as I get home from work. Stuck here for another 5 hours
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Old June 13th, 2013, 01:40 PM   #66
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OK, I am ahead of time, since I live in Florida.

If the lights get on and the switch changes Hi and Low, then the contacts of the relay stay open and the relay needs to be replaced.

If the lights turn off after you stop the engine (with the kill switch), then, the diode B is bad as well.
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Old June 13th, 2013, 08:49 PM   #67
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OK, I am ahead of time, since I live in Florida.

If the lights get on and the switch changes Hi and Low, then the contacts of the relay stay open and the relay needs to be replaced.

If the lights turn off after you stop the engine (with the kill switch), then, the diode B is bad as well.

I think we made some progress!!!!

Jumped the relay with some wire as mentioned above. When I turned the key into the on position the lights came on! Both low and then the high beam worked by flipping the switch! I started the bike and they stayed on, and then when i killed the bike with the kill switch they stayed on!

Assuming this is a bad relay!? About to order one!?

Now for the time being is it safe to use this bypass on the relay switch for the headlights so I can ride in the amazing weather in central cali!?

Or should I just be patient and wait?
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Old June 14th, 2013, 06:44 AM   #68
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I think we made some progress!!!!

Jumped the relay with some wire as mentioned above. When I turned the key into the on position the lights came on! Both low and then the high beam worked by flipping the switch! I started the bike and they stayed on, and then when i killed the bike with the kill switch they stayed on!

Assuming this is a bad relay!? About to order one!?

Now for the time being is it safe to use this bypass on the relay switch for the headlights so I can ride in the amazing weather in central cali!?

Or should I just be patient and wait?
That is great!

Now we know that the only bad part is the relay.
Sorry that I did mislead you to the left handler switch, the fact of one bulb only turning on confused me.
The diodes are good.

I am not sure if something bad will happen by starting the engine and turning the lights on at once.
The purpose of the system is to feed the starter motor only with the battery, and turn the lights on only after the starter is off and the alternator is feeding the lights and anything else.

I would give it a try and see if no fuse is blown.
There is a plastic clip for jumping cables that should be available at autoparts and which schematic I have attached.
Whatever method of by-passing the relay you choose, try a firm connection and check that it is not too hot after some minutes of having the lights on.

Since we know that the relay is bad, there is an additional test to do and it is checking the voltage of the yellow-red wire while the engine is working.
I know that you tested before (test #6 above), but I am not sure if you measured with the engine working or just the key switch in the on position.
It should be zero or very small.
That ensures that the coil of the relay is good and that the starter motor is not draining the battery after the engine is running.
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Old June 14th, 2013, 08:21 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
That is great!

Now we know that the only bad part is the relay.
Sorry that I did mislead you to the left handler switch, the fact of one bulb only turning on confused me.
The diodes are good.

I am not sure if something bad will happen by starting the engine and turning the lights on at once.
The purpose of the system is to feed the starter motor only with the battery, and turn the lights on only after the starter is off and the alternator is feeding the lights and anything else.

I would give it a try and see if no fuse is blown.
There is a plastic clip for jumping cables that should be available at autoparts and which schematic I have attached.
Whatever method of by-passing the relay you choose, try a firm connection and check that it is not too hot after some minutes of having the lights on.

Since we know that the relay is bad, there is an additional test to do and it is checking the voltage of the yellow-red wire while the engine is working.
I know that you tested before (test #6 above), but I am not sure if you measured with the engine working or just the key switch in the on position.
It should be zero or very small.
That ensures that the coil of the relay is good and that the starter motor is not draining the battery after the engine is running.
Had to give my pops back his multimeter last night, but will grab it again tonight so I can do this.

I want to say when I was doing testing I was always doing it with the engine running and with just the key on and engine not running. Also I want to say I got 1/ .1 or 2/ .2 on the yellow / red wire. Will confirm tonight.


to confirm the relay is part number

27002:
RELAY-ASSY

or is it

27002A:
RELAY-ASSY

or neither?

anyways thanks again for all the help! Once I get everything together and running for sure once I get the parts I will make a right up of everything i've done! Thanks a lot everyone! I learned a lot about the bikes electrical system
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Old June 14th, 2013, 10:34 AM   #70
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I cannot confirm the part number, since I have a pre-gen.
Your relay should have some label under that rubber protector.

You are welcome, Andrew
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Old June 14th, 2013, 11:15 AM   #71
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I cannot confirm the part number, since I have a pre-gen.
Your relay should have some label under that rubber protector.

You are welcome, Andrew
Yeah Im not sure if I'm looking at the rubber protector or the relay itself lol!

@alex.s you have any idea?
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Old June 15th, 2013, 01:14 PM   #72
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@Motofool @%1;

Guys sorry for the mention but I'm in a bad spot. Took the ninja to work today. On the way here my headlights still aren't working (relay in the mail), but my rpm tach meter stopped working. Once I turned the bike off, it now won't turn on.. I just get the clicking sound like my battery is dead.

Seems like my battery is dead. And it's brand new. Now the battery I got the guy at auto some said I didn't hav to put the stuff In it or I'm no expert but I can't think of reason why it wouldn't. I'm going to try it maybe, unless someone else chimes in!? charge it, I ill try and find a link to the brand. Maybe it does need a charge?
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Old June 15th, 2013, 01:25 PM   #73
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....Seems like my battery is dead. And it's brand new. Now the battery I got the guy at auto some said I didn't hav to put the stuff In it or I'm no expert but I can't think of reason why it wouldn't. I'm going to try it maybe, unless someone else chimes in!? charge it, I ill try and find a link to the brand. Maybe it does need a charge?
Yes, the battery may be discharged.

You can start the bike and return home.

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_to_...attery_is_dead

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_to_...ike_from_a_car

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/My_batt...art_my_bike%3F
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Old June 15th, 2013, 01:55 PM   #74
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Thanks. I'm pretty pro at push starting it. I want to say last time this happened and my battery had no charge, once I push started the bike it didn't run properly. It wanted to die, and would bog down when I gave it gas. Hopefully that doesn't happen, or would a bad battery cause that?
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Old June 15th, 2013, 02:12 PM   #75
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.........Hopefully that doesn't happen, or would a bad battery cause that?
The alternator should be able to keep everything working properly as long as the engine is rotating.

Sorry about your problem, hope you can make it back home safely.
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Old June 15th, 2013, 03:57 PM   #76
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Would my battery being dead be the cause of the rpm tach not working?

Thanks motofool
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Old June 15th, 2013, 04:06 PM   #77
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....Would my battery being dead be the cause of the rpm tach not working?
- if your lights on the Ninja 250 begin to flicker or your gauges or engine speed start to act erratically, check your battery connections

- charge the battery if the motor fails to start or the starter relay makes a clicking noise


~ http://www.ninjette.org/wiki/Battery
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Old June 15th, 2013, 07:30 PM   #78
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- if your lights on the Ninja 250 begin to flicker or your gauges or engine speed start to act erratically, check your battery connections

- charge the battery if the motor fails to start or the starter relay makes a clicking noise


~ http://www.ninjette.org/wiki/Battery
Posting this from the side of the road lol.

Pushed started the bike and it started up no problem and was running just fine when i got off of work. I traveled about 2 miles and got to an intersection. When I went to take off from that intersection the bike lost power and died. Attempted to push start the bike and iit started but lost power and died again. Called my gf to bring my truck to get me.

Its not starting obviously. Maybe I do have a loose battery cable i hope. Going to hook my battery on a charger tonight and I hope that's what this issue is.

Argh
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Old June 15th, 2013, 08:33 PM   #79
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Sorry, Andrew
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Old June 15th, 2013, 09:02 PM   #80
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check your running voltage, it should be no less than 12.3v at idle. if its lower:

find this connector on the right side:



unplug it and hook up your tester to the plug with three yellow wires:





switch your tester to ohms and measure ( my tester is at .6 ohms with two leads touching each other, my reading it .9 - so the stator has .3 ohms resistance). I believe the spec is between 0.05 and .6 ohms for the stator, check all three yellow wires for the same resistance:



now check the each yellow wire for short to ground by putting the negative lead on battery negative and positive to each yellow wire, any reading means a short to ground, it should read nil:



Now switch the tester to AC volt reading, leave the test leads in the connector, start bike and bring engine up to 4,000 rpm (using the choke helps if you only have 2 hands). The output from stator should be around 40V A/C (when warm), check to make sure that they're about the same for all three yellow wires:

set your test leads:


voltage @ 4,000 rpm:



if the output is lower, stator is bad, if much higher, voltage regulator is damaged.


if no reading, sell bike as "old lady driven"
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