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Old June 16th, 2013, 12:35 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
Sorry, Andrew
Hey man no worries. All part of a learning experience. Thanks tho

MENTION]asspire

Best way to measure my running voltage would be? And old lady driven doesn't sound to good
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Old June 16th, 2013, 05:20 AM   #82
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check voltage at battery terminals when running at idle,


after replacing my voltage regulator my idle voltage is 12.6 - 13.4 volts, when loaded (high beams on) it will go to about 14.4 - 14.7 volts. anything under 12.3 at idle is considered not charging, and you should be atleast 14v at 4,000 rpm and higher.

before I changed the regulator I was having low voltage issues, and when the voltage is low weird thing happen to the tach. makes sure you do these test with a fully charged battery.
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Old June 16th, 2013, 10:02 AM   #83
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check voltage at battery terminals when running at idle,


after replacing my voltage regulator my idle voltage is 12.6 - 13.4 volts, when loaded (high beams on) it will go to about 14.4 - 14.7 volts. anything under 12.3 at idle is considered not charging, and you should be atleast 14v at 4,000 rpm and higher.

before I changed the regulator I was having low voltage issues, and when the voltage is low weird thing happen to the tach. makes sure you do these test with a fully charged battery.
I was only getting 11.5v when I was testing it before during idle. I think I need to charge my battery... I hope
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Old June 16th, 2013, 11:20 AM   #84
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http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...er=161797_0_0_

Would this guy work for charging my battery
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Old June 16th, 2013, 11:50 AM   #85
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http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...er=161797_0_0_

Would this guy work for charging my battery
It will, but you can find one cheaper that does the same thing at Walmart
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Old June 16th, 2013, 01:17 PM   #86
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Picking that up on my lunch break. Thanks.
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Old June 17th, 2013, 07:42 AM   #87
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charged the battery and now it starts! Haven't gone for a ride yet, but the RPM tach meter is working. Success! Note my headlights still aren't working right. Deff going to pick up my fathers multimeter this evening and test my voltage again. I remembered the battery while running had 11.5v, should be 12.5 or such right?

Don't listen to old guys at autozone who are "pretty sure you don't have to charge this more expensive battery." I still had to charge it, but at least I didnt have to put that water or acid into it

the OEM relay should be here this week, but I may swing by autozone and pick up that other one to use now to make sure that is actually the problem

love this forum and hope everyone had a good fathers day weekend
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Old June 17th, 2013, 08:00 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walty87 View Post
.......I remembered the battery while running had 11.5v, should be 12.5 or such right?
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_doe...system_work%3F

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_to_...attery_is_dead

"Check the voltage at the battery terminals, and make sure to record the voltage down to the tenths: 12.6v vs. 12v. Check the following values:
-After the bike has been sitting for days, key off: No lower than 12.2v, and even that's pretty low. You really want more like 12.6-12.8.
-As you're cranking the starter: No less than 10v.
-At idle: Voltage should be no lower than the "sitting voltage" you measured above.
-In normal rpm range (4000-9000): 13.8v is ideal, but anything 13.5-13.8 is OK.
-Immediately (within half an hour) after a ride of at least 10-15 miles at over 4000 rpm, engine and key off: 12.8v or more.
A day or two after that ride, key off: 12.6v or higher"
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Old June 18th, 2013, 09:48 PM   #89
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So while I wait for my OEM relay to get here I purchased a cheapy 12 volt 30 amp relay from an auto parts store.

I wired it all up like this:

the grey wire goes to post 30, the blue-yellow wire goes to post 87.

The yellow-red and the red wires connect to post 85 and 86 indistinctly.

After doing that the headlights still dont turn on. Is that correct way to wire the prongs?

Also took a piece of heavy wire and connected it to the blue/yellow and the grey wire and the headlight's (low and high when switched to on and off) came right on! and stayed on when bike turned off with the kill switch. Of course after I turned it back on they wouldn't turn on unless connected with heavy wire... the OEM (what I thought was bad maybe its not? or is it?) will do the same thing w/ the heavy wire as well.

Any ideas?
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File Type: jpg relay2.jpg (5.7 KB, 70 views)
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File Type: jpg relay4.jpg (3.8 KB, 70 views)
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Old June 19th, 2013, 09:15 AM   #90
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been playing with it all morning, and cant get headlights to turn on.. gosh dang!
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Old June 19th, 2013, 09:57 AM   #91
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been playing with it all morning, and cant get headlights to turn on.. gosh dang!
Andrew,

If you apply 12 volts between 85 and 86, the internal switch should close and you will have continuity between 30 and 87.

If not, the relay is not working properly.

With nothing connected to 85 and 86, you will have continuity between 30 and 87a, which the central tab that you removed.
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Old June 19th, 2013, 10:00 AM   #92
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do you know where I can find out what color wire goes to what number pin again? I think you posted it Moto, but I cant find it.
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Old June 19th, 2013, 10:35 AM   #93
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do you know where I can find out what color wire goes to what number pin again? I think you posted it Moto, but I cant find it.
I cannot find it either, but it should work like this:

-Gray goes to post 30
-Blue-yellow to post 87
-Red to 85
-Yellow-red to 86

If it doesn't work like that, switch 85 and 86:

-Red to 86
-Yellow-red to 85
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Old June 19th, 2013, 10:44 AM   #94
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I cannot find it either, but it should work like this:

-Gray goes to post 30
-Blue-yellow to post 87
-Red to 85
-Yellow-red to 86

If it doesn't work like that, switch 85 and 86:

-Red to 86
-Yellow-red to 85
So I am doing it right. Tried yellow-red and red both way and headlights still dont power on

I wonder if the cheap relay I bought from the auto store is bad? I can still take the heavy wire and touch the blue/yellow and gray wires to get the lights on, but this new relay isn't working?
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Old June 19th, 2013, 11:06 AM   #95
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So I am doing it right. Tried yellow-red and red both way and headlights still dont power on

I wonder if the cheap relay I bought from the auto store is bad? I can still take the heavy wire and touch the blue/yellow and gray wires to get the lights on, but this new relay isn't working?
Sorry, I don't know what else could you do.
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Old June 19th, 2013, 11:11 AM   #96
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Sorry, I don't know what else could you do.
It's ok man! you've already done tons to help out. I really really appreciate everyone's help.

If the new oem relay doesnt work once I get it... I'll be taking the bike over to a shop.

I really cannot figure this out and it's frustrating.
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Old June 19th, 2013, 11:31 AM   #97
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posting from phone: did you check for 12 v at the red wire when running? check at the relay,
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Old June 19th, 2013, 11:51 AM   #98
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ok try this: turn key to on position, leave kill switch on run, but don't start engine. is there power at red wire? if yes, jump Grey wire to blu/yellow wire, lights come on? if yes, leave it jumped and check for power at red wire, is there voltage? if yes, remove jump wire from relay, is the lights still on? if no, is there power at red wire?
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Old June 19th, 2013, 12:55 PM   #99
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posting from phone: did you check for 12 v at the red wire when running? check at the relay,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asspire View Post
ok try this: turn key to on position, leave kill switch on run, but don't start engine. is there power at red wire? if yes, jump Grey wire to blu/yellow wire, lights come on? if yes, leave it jumped and check for power at red wire, is there voltage? if yes, remove jump wire from relay, is the lights still on? if no, is there power at red wire?
will do this evening when I get home and will report what I find. TY
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Old June 19th, 2013, 01:19 PM   #100
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also just for fun I went and got the relay from autozone:

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...er=203873_0_0_

yellow blue on 87. grey on 30. reds on 86 and or 85, switched with yellow red (tried both options for red yellow, and reds wire).

Still nothing. I'm really doubting it's a faulty relay now. and don't think the oem one is going to make a difference.

I will be running that test @Asspire when I get the meter back from my dad this evening.

I do want to say though... that I have tested the red wire and was getting 11.5 volts there (this was when my battery was not charged lol! and was only getting 11.5 on the battery terminals). Will re-do tonight with a charged battery.
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Old June 19th, 2013, 04:49 PM   #101
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ok try this: turn key to on position, leave kill switch on run, but don't start engine. is there power at red wire? if yes, jump Grey wire to blu/yellow wire, lights come on? if yes, leave it jumped and check for power at red wire, is there voltage? if yes, remove jump wire from relay, is the lights still on? if no, is there power at red wire?
1.)with key on run and engine off there is .2 v power at red wire.

2.)if I jump the yellow blue and gray wire together with the bike on the headlights do come on. After jumping yelllow blue and gray and with headlights on the red wire gets 10.8v - i get the same 10.8 voltage if the jump is removed (lights do stay on) as well if I keep the jump touching the blue yellow and grey wires.


seems like I'm not getting that much power from the red wires until the blue yellow and grey wires are jumped. Where do the red powers come from?
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Old June 19th, 2013, 05:33 PM   #102
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the voltage drop is notmal , so, there's a diode that feeds power to the red wire from the blue/yellow wire(this keeps lights on after kill switch is hit and key is in on position) from the diagram there should be another diode that feeds the red wire that is power by the yellow wire (stator feed).


so, we can conclude that I have no freaking idea what's going on. let get home and I'll recheck the diagrams again.
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Old June 19th, 2013, 06:15 PM   #103
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Lol thanks man.

Does it mean anything that the red is only getting .2 volts?
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Old June 19th, 2013, 06:44 PM   #104
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no.


check diode pack b, there will be two red wires coming out of it, start bike and check them, they BOTH should have voltage when running. If it doesn't, the lights shouldn't work, jump the grey wire to blue again so that they do, leave the bike running, and check both red wires at the diode pack again. One of them should at least have voltage going thru it, the other (most likely the one across from the yellow will not. Follow this :



Quote:
Originally Posted by Asspire View Post
check your running voltage, it should be no less than 12.3v at idle. if its lower:

find this connector on the right side:



unplug it and hook up your tester to the plug with three yellow wires:





switch your tester to ohms and measure ( my tester is at .6 ohms with two leads touching each other, my reading it .9 - so the stator has .3 ohms resistance). I believe the spec is between 0.05 and .6 ohms for the stator, check all three yellow wires for the same resistance:



now check the each yellow wire for short to ground by putting the negative lead on battery negative and positive to each yellow wire, any reading means a short to ground, it should read nil:



Now switch the tester to AC volt reading, leave the test leads in the connector, start bike and bring engine up to 4,000 rpm (using the choke helps if you only have 2 hands). The output from stator should be around 40V A/C (when warm), check to make sure that they're about the same for all three yellow wires:

set your test leads:


voltage @ 4,000 rpm:



if the output is lower, stator is bad, if much higher, voltage regulator is damaged.


if no reading, sell bike as "old lady driven"
if stator checks out ok, then diode pack is faulty

Last futzed with by Asspire; June 19th, 2013 at 06:45 PM. Reason: blah
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Old June 19th, 2013, 09:49 PM   #105
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Question

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Originally Posted by Asspire View Post
no.


check diode pack b, there will be two red wires coming out of it, start bike and check them, they BOTH should have voltage when running. If it doesn't, the lights shouldn't work, jump the grey wire to blue again so that they do, leave the bike running, and check both red wires at the diode pack again. One of them should at least have voltage going thru it, the other (most likely the one across from the yellow will not. Follow this :





if stator checks out ok, then diode pack is faulty
So the red wires going to the diode pack have .2 going in or out of them when the bike is on. After I jump the headlights on they then have 10.6v running through them.

I cannot seem to find that wiring connector pack. I have a 2012 and still have my stock airbox. It's on the right side? I cant find it
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Old June 19th, 2013, 10:10 PM   #106
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this is the only 3 yellow wires I could find. Maybe its different? or is this not it? this is on the opposite side of the bike



also what would happen if I was to just leave yellow blue and grey wires jumped? Would it hurt anything?
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Old June 19th, 2013, 10:33 PM   #107
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Looks like they changed the socket, but that should be the stator connector. Since both red wires from diode pack have voltage after jump, we can assume diodes are ok. Did you test the wires after disconnecting jumper wire, or while its was jumped?

If diodes are good we need to look at the stator, ill see if i can get a 2012 service manual, wanna check that wire diagram
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Old June 19th, 2013, 10:35 PM   #108
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Looks like they changed the socket, but that should be the stator connector. Since both red wires from diode pack have voltage after jump, we can assume diodes are ok. Did you test the wires after disconnecting jumper wire, or while its was jumped?

If diodes are good we need to look at the stator, ill see if i can get a 2012 service manual, wanna check that wire diagram
Tested wires after disconnecting the jumper wire

If my stator is bad is that hard to replace? lol...

also will riding with those wires jumped hurt the engine?

And i sure am glad you're looking at those diagrams not me. lol. I'd have no idea what i'd be looking at
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Old June 20th, 2013, 06:44 AM   #109
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Stator isnt hard to replace, but its not cheap.

Riding with it jumped wont hurt, but you'll still have the problem, and we dont know the cause of it and what other problem it can cause. Since you keep having a dead battery, im lead to belive you may have a stator issue.
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Old June 20th, 2013, 10:07 AM   #110
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Stator isnt hard to replace, but its not cheap.

Riding with it jumped wont hurt, but you'll still have the problem, and we dont know the cause of it and what other problem it can cause. Since you keep having a dead battery, im lead to belive you may have a stator issue.
ouch 300 bucks for a new one. And yeah I just saw a how-to and it looks pretty easy to do. Idk if I want to just order this and do it myself, or if I should just take my bike to a shop. I'd be all for it myself if I was 100% sure that was the issue (im leading this way). I'm at about 14500 miles and I do need to get the valves checked anyways, so maybe I'll have them fix this problem as well. Going to be one super expensive service... and I'll be bike less for awhile damn.

My old battery went dead (maybe due to time? im at about 14k miles or should OEM last longer?). I got a new battery which I didn't charge before throwing it in.. Is that why the new one went dad so fast maybe? Idk
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Old June 21st, 2013, 05:25 PM   #111
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Soo I've been riding with my headlights "jumped". Had a jump on the yellow blue to grey wire annnnnd my battery is already dead again.

I'm pretty sure this has to be the stator? Thats what keeps a charge to the battery? I'll be checking out the stator yellow wires in a bit when my bike cools down (i just made it home when the bike was dying / battery died).

What do you guys think... If I don't find anything wrong with the stator wires is it safe to claim that the stator is the issue? Also would a bad stator explain why whenever I'd rev the engine and be checking the voltage of the battery terminals my voltage never went up? Stator problem?
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Old June 21st, 2013, 05:59 PM   #112
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Stator problem
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Old June 21st, 2013, 06:18 PM   #113
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Maybe I missed it somewhere but, there is another component to the electrical system that you haven't checked. The rectifier is responsible for converting AC power to DC power so that the battery gets charged. You can't store AC voltage in a battery, only DC.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 06:56 PM   #114
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Maybe I missed it somewhere but, there is another component to the electrical system that you haven't checked. The rectifier is responsible for converting AC power to DC power so that the battery gets charged. You can't store AC voltage in a battery, only DC.

oh where is that located?
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Old June 21st, 2013, 08:46 PM   #115
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left side, above coil pack, looks like a heat sink
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 02:12 PM   #116
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oh where is that located?
Charging Voltage Inspection
•Check the battery condition(see Charging Condition Inspection).
•Warm up the engine to obtain actual alternator operating conditions.
•Remove the battery cover.
•Check that the ignition switch is turned off, and connect the hand tester to the battery terminals.
•Start the engine, and note the voltage readings at various engine speeds with the headlight turned on and then turned off. The readings should show nearly battery voltage when the engine speed is low, and, as the engine speed rises, the readings should also rise. But they must be kept under the specified voltage.
•Turn off the ignition switch to stop the engine, and disconnect the hand tester. If the charging voltage is kept between 13.9∼14.9 V, the charging system is considered to be working normally. If the charging voltage is much higher than the values specified in the table, the regulator/rectifier is defective or the regulator/rectifier leads are loose or open. If the charging voltage does not rise as the engine speed increases, then the regulator/rectifier is defective or the alternator output is insufficient for the loads. Check the alternator and regulator/rectifier to determine which part is defective.

Alternator Inspection
There are three types of alternator failures: short, open(wire burned out), or loss in rotor magnetism. A short or open in one of the coil wires will result in either a low output, or no output at all. A loss in rotor magnetism, which may be caused by dropping or hitting the alternator, by leaving it near an electromagnetic field, or just by aging, will result in low output.
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 06:08 PM   #117
DaBlue1
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Maybe I missed it somewhere but, there is another component to the electrical system that you haven't checked. The rectifier is responsible for converting AC power to DC power so that the battery gets charged. You can't store AC voltage in a battery, only DC.
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Originally Posted by walty87 View Post
oh where is that located?
The rectifier/regulator is responsible for 3 phases (system ground, 12 VDC to the ignition and fuse box, & 12 VDC to the starter solenoid/mainfuse)

The alternator supplies power (AC) to the coil side of the headlight relay, the rectifier supplies power (DC) to the switch inside the relay via a fuse.
In between the alternator and headlight relay is Diode B. If the diode is bad it can also prevent the headlight relay from turning on the lights.

Just something else to check before getting ass deep into the stator.
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 08:43 PM   #118
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I have two diodes if u need. I bought new ones chasing a problem and mine were fine.
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Old June 23rd, 2013, 03:05 PM   #119
walty87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBlue1 View Post
Maybe I missed it somewhere but, there is another component to the electrical system that you haven't checked. The rectifier is responsible for converting AC power to DC power so that the battery gets charged. You can't store AC voltage in a battery, only DC.
I'm looking at it now but I don't really see anything wrong with it? Wires all look good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBlue1 View Post
The rectifier/regulator is responsible for 3 phases (system ground, 12 VDC to the ignition and fuse box, & 12 VDC to the starter solenoid/mainfuse)

The alternator supplies power (AC) to the coil side of the headlight relay, the rectifier supplies power (DC) to the switch inside the relay via a fuse.
In between the alternator and headlight relay is Diode B. If the diode is bad it can also prevent the headlight relay from turning on the lights.

Just something else to check before getting ass deep into the stator.
Like I said im looking at the rectifier and I don't see anything physically wrong here. Though I don't really know what I'm looking at.


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Originally Posted by mgentz View Post
I have two diodes if u need. I bought new ones chasing a problem and mine were fine.
Thanks man I appreciate it, but I don't think the diodes are my problem, but i'm not 100% sure


So I still have no idea what the problem is. I'm about ready to take this bad boy to the shop and have the professionals deal with it.

The stator wires look fine I followed them from top to buttom. I don't have the tester handy this weekend, so not a lot of testing to do.. But at that wiring pack for the stator cables I tried to test it before like you said @Asspire and I could not get a reading. Neither ac or dc.

I'm really believing my stator is the issue. It just makes sense, but i'm no where near 100% on that.

Current issues with bike:

-Headlights do not come on unless I jump the yellow/blue and gray wires at the relay.

-My brand new battery has died on my twice now. Once after buying it (guy at auto zone said it didn't need to be charged) and riding to work with, and then once after I've had it on a battery charger to fully charge it and riding it around my town.

I've tried 2 different auto parts stores relay's that should work and I get the same results as if my oem headlight relay was in there. So I'm not sure if this is the issue or not. I don't think it is... But I could be wrong.

I checked out that rectifier as mentioned above, but I don't see anything wrong with it physically.

All my wiring looks fine and don't see any obvious shorts anywhere.

This is very frustrating. I'm really tempted to buy a used stator off ebay for like 50 bucks. It looks super easy to change out, and I would know if thats a problem or not.. idk guys!

Thanks for all the continued help and support. Like I said I have learned a lot a long the way. My dad keeps telling me to just take it to the shop, but he doesn't understand wanting to learn myself and save LOTS of money...
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Old June 23rd, 2013, 03:21 PM   #120
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...I'm looking at it now but I don't really see anything wrong with it? Wires all look good.
You're not going to see anything other than a disconnected coupling (if there is one). It's going to have to be tested.

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