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Old December 23rd, 2012, 08:22 PM   #1
chadh92
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Seafoam for carb cleaning?

I've had my 03 for 3 months now and haven't had an issue with it. It's always run fine since the day I picked it up. It's always idled around 3200rpm and I never thought it was a big deal, but the other day I thought that it did seem kind of fast for an idle speed. I looked it up and say 1750+-100rpm is what Kawasaki says is standard.

My bike's never run hot or anything, I figured I was just burning a little more gas than necessary. So today I took it out for a ride and when I got back I started messing with the idle controller. Anything under 2500rpm was just not good. It was bouncing a little bit, nothing crazy, but enough for me to know it's not a good idle speed. I set it back to around 3200rpm (where it's always been) and it started bouncing a little bit there too.

Anyways, I guess it's time to do some sort of cleaning of the carbs. I'm only home from school for two more weeks, before I head back to the mountains (where it's useless until April-ish), so I'm wondering if I should just try Seafoam for now, and then wait to clean the carbs in the Spring when i'll ride it more than one weekend out of every 5-6 weeks.

Does seafoam work well for cleaning the carbs on these bikes? I know it's better to do it the right way (by taking everything apart and doing it by hand), but if the bike is going to sit for most of the next 4 months, I'd rather do something to just get me by for now.

tl;dr - Anyone have any stories of using Seafoam to clean out the carbs? How well did it work?
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 08:28 PM   #2
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Welcome Chad!

Seafoam is hit or miss and buys you time at best.... nothing beats a good cleaning by hand.
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 08:35 PM   #3
chadh92
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Gotcha. Will putting running some Stabil through the lines after a good carb cleaning keep the carbs clean for the next few months? Or would I be better off with a good carb cleaning and a little Seafoam?

Do I need any gaskets or anything to clean the carbs? Or just a can of some carb cleaner and a brush, with maybe a little wire to poke the pilot jet holes?

Also, are there any odd tools needed to get to it? I've only got some of my tools home with me for Christmas break. Wrenches, and screwdrivers. Do I need any torx drivers or allen keys to get to the carbs/break it down? Just want to figure it out before I tear everything apart!
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 08:49 PM   #4
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Welcome aboard Chad.
Actually your idle speed should be 1300 (+/- 100) rpm. 1500-1700 is ok if the bike is happy with it. Something tells me you may have something going on if you idle speed was 3200 rpm and the tranny did not clunk real hard when shifting from neutral to first.

A high idle is used to compensate for poor performance in other areas. From your description (of the 'hunting' idle speed), you may have idle mixture issues or be in need of a valve adjustment. Neither of which Seafoam will fix alone.

Since you will be a way for a long period, you should use a good fuel stabilizer such as Star Tron, Stabil or Seafoam to help keep the carbs clean. Ensure the mixture gets into the carbs. Storing the bike with ethanol free fuel helps keep the carbs clean during long storage as well.

When was the last time the valves were adjusted on the bike? You may want to make getting a valve adjustment a priority and maybe clean the carbs if the idle speed does not improve afterwards.
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 08:51 PM   #5
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Real, brand name Pine-sol as a carb dip... of course this means taking them off to do it, will give you awesome results.
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 08:58 PM   #6
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http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Intake
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 11:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBlue1 View Post
Welcome aboard Chad.
Actually your idle speed should be 1300 (+/- 100) rpm. 1500-1700 is ok if the bike is happy with it. Something tells me you may have something going on if you idle speed was 3200 rpm and the tranny did not clunk real hard when shifting from neutral to first.

A high idle is used to compensate for poor performance in other areas. From your description (of the 'hunting' idle speed), you may have idle mixture issues or be in need of a valve adjustment. Neither of which Seafoam will fix alone.

Since you will be a way for a long period, you should use a good fuel stabilizer such as Star Tron, Stabil or Seafoam to help keep the carbs clean. Ensure the mixture gets into the carbs. Storing the bike with ethanol free fuel helps keep the carbs clean during long storage as well.

When was the last time the valves were adjusted on the bike? You may want to make getting a valve adjustment a priority and maybe clean the carbs if the idle speed does not improve afterwards.
Whoops, yeah it did clunk going from neutral to 1st gear. This is my first bike so I just kind of figured it was normal. Kind of like how shifting from 1st to 2nd in most cars is a little bit clunkier than 2nd to 3rd, or 3rd to 4th. It was never harsh or anything, just kind of an indication that I was going down into first. I only noticed it when I was in neutral and kicked down into 1st while at a stoplight.

The bike is at 9,400 miles right now. The 6,000 mile service was done at a dealer (i've got records), so I assume the valve adjustment was done then, but that was still in 2008. Would you recommend doing the valve adjustment first and seeing how it goes from there? Or just doing it over the span of a day or two to knock it all out?

@Motofool: Thanks! I've already read tons of these over the past year when I was preparing for buying my Ninja! I always go there for any questions I have, just wanted to get a more personal answer this time.
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Old December 24th, 2012, 12:05 AM   #8
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Absolute best way to clean carbs is complete disassembly and by hand. Once you disassemble everything, I use a product called Berryman Chem Dip (comes in what looks like a gallon paint can). Make sure to remove everything plastic and rubber so the chemicals don't disintegrate it and wash it down. Ive seen make carbs that were gunked from sitting for decades make them look brand new
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Old December 24th, 2012, 08:11 AM   #9
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I just accept that cleaning carbs is part of bike ownership. So I simply top of the tank with whatever pump gas that is realistically available (shell), add the proper amount of stabil and drain the bowls.

And for sure +1 on the Chem Dip, it works wonders. Just used that for my 92 ninja carbs, an easy clean with great results.
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Old December 24th, 2012, 08:46 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBlue1 View Post
....A high idle is used to compensate for poor performance in other areas. From your description (of the 'hunting' idle speed), you may have idle mixture issues or be in need of a valve adjustment. Neither of which Seafoam will fix alone.
I fully agree with Blue and would add that a choke that doesn't release completely (lever, cable, plunger, guides), or a vacuum leak via a cracked vacuum hose may also be the cause of your chronic high idle.

Regarding Seafoam, I have been using it to keep my carbs clean for two years (11,200 miles), having had no need to do any surgery during this period of time.

I have been using it as directed by the manufacturer like once a month (four filled up tanks).

When my bike has to be out of work for more than a week, I simply completely drain any fuel in the bowls via the drain screws.

That is something simple that you may want to try, since you would eliminate that way any accumulated water and debris that may be causing your problems.
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Old December 24th, 2012, 01:43 PM   #11
chadh92
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I typed up a long post last night and it said a mod had to approve it before it could be seen. Wondering why it hasn't been approved yet -____-

Anyways, my last valve adjustment was done 3,000 miles ago, but that was 5 years ago, so it's probably time to check that.

Is a cracked vacuum hose from the choke that common? My choke closes completely but there have been times where i've noticed my bike idling at ~1500rpm. It's only been maybe 3-4 times but it's where i've run my bike up to the gas station (within a 1mile) and after I fueled up and started it, without the choke, it was running fine around 1500rpm with no rpm fluctuations.

Trying to figure out whether I should do a valve adjustment, carb cleaning, or a good seafoaming first. I will get to all of them by the time Spring rolls around, but what would help my problem the most, you think?
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Old December 24th, 2012, 02:45 PM   #12
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Welcome Chad!

There is not really enough information to tell which maintenance item is the major cause of your idle problems. It is possible that a combination of all the maintenance issues together is causing the problem.

I'll try my hand at guessing the magical fix:
Since the last service of the valves is less than the limit of 6000 miles, I would start by pulling off the carbs and clean them. A lot of other troubleshooting relies on the carburetor being squeaky clean. Personally, I don't believe in the church of Seafoamology.

You can PM @Alex about the approval. Maybe you are breaking a forum rule, like posting in the marketplace without enough starting posts or something.

Last futzed with by Lychee; December 24th, 2012 at 02:47 PM. Reason: Seafoamology
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Old December 24th, 2012, 03:22 PM   #13
chadh92
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No, i've only posted in this topic. Weird. Anyways, I did have a clunk shifting from neutral to 1st. This is my first bike so I thought it was just standard. It never seemed too harsh or anything, just kind of seemed like an indication that the bike was kicking down to first. Never happened while moving, only at red lights or before pulling off from being parked.

Since the last real dealer service record I have is from the 6,000 mile service, I guess I have to assume that is the last time the carbs were cleaned. Over 5 years and nearly 4,000 miles, I'm guessing it's time for a real good cleaning.

I've read the wiki article, but just to make sure before I start, do I need any special gaskets or anything other than the tools and carb cleaner? The whole cleaning process seems pretty easy but I'm confused on how to sync the carbs afterwards. Videos always seem to help me a lot more than reading the articles.

Thanks again everyone!
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Old December 24th, 2012, 04:05 PM   #14
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I am going to assume that since you've had the bike for 3 months it has not been ridden too much (since you've been at school) and that the fuel has been in the tank for awhile. If that is the case, chances are your carbs need cleaning since your valves seem to be within the service interval for adjusting. There are more than a few videos and DIY's for carb cleaning that can help you.

Like I stated before, your current idle speed is to high and should be around 1300 +/- 100 rpm. (even up 1700 if necessary). The general consensus on your issue is going to be carb cleaning. I would even check your spark plugs and the air filter as well. If you run short on time before you head back to school and can't do it, I recommend a few things before it is long stored again. These things will help prepare you for that spring maintenance and upcoming riding season.

1. Get some fresh gas if you have not already. ( preferably some ethanol free 87 octane) Newell's on Old Concord Rd. just off W.T Harris is where I get mine.

2. Get some Star Tron Fuel Treatment in with the fresh fuel and make sure it gets into the carb bowls. This will help clean the carbs and stabilize the gas (can be bought at Walmart in the marine section). You will need to ride the bike around for a while. Then let it sit a while.

3. Check or clean your air filter.

If you have enough time;

4. Remove and clean the carbs, especially the pilot jets.

5. Change your oil and oil filter. This will keep corrosive and gumming deposits from building up over the winter months. You might as well begin the spring with new oil & filter. Synthetic oil is a plus.

6. Lubricate the chain and any exposed cables. This will prevent rust from forming that can damage the chain while the bike is in storage, especially if the bike is stored outside or exposed to moisture.

7. Check your radiator coolant to ensure it is at the proper levels and still meets the freezing and boiling points.

8. Keep your tires properly inflated

Since this is your first bike, there are a few particular things about the Ninja 250 you should know. First, the bike is very cold blooded, so it takes a little while to get warmed up sufficiently. Lately the Charlotte weather has gotten a little colder so you will find the Ninja's idle speed change with ambient temp changes as well as engine temp changes, so be prepared to adjust it accordingly. Idle adjustments should be made when the bike is completely warm and the choke is off. When using the choke the idle speed should rise to about 3k rpms. Once the engine is warm it should maintain your set idle speed with the choke off. The choke should not need to be on for more than a minute or two. It is ok to ride off with the choke on until the bike can maintain a good idle speed and not stall, once it does, take the choke off.

Since your bike has very little miles on it, your spark plugs should be ok, but since you had it idling so high I would check them anyway. I recently went from stock plugs to iridium plugs and the bikes runs really nice with the ethanol free gas, especially at higher rpms. Others may have different results. When or if you decide to change spark plugs, Iridium is something to consider.
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Old December 24th, 2012, 06:03 PM   #15
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Thanks for all the info! I've only let it sit for two 3-week long periods. I had it run for about 15 minutes by my brother during those periods, so it never really sat too long. To make sure fresh gas has been kept in it, I only fill up about 2gallons at a time and I've stopped to refuel maybe 6 times total.

All the fluids are good, air filter is good, spark plugs are good. At this point I'm just going to go ahead and scrub the carbs and see what happens, then put some stabil in there to run through the lines.
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Old December 24th, 2012, 06:40 PM   #16
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....At this point I'm just going to go ahead and scrub the carbs and see what happens, then put some stabil in there to run through the lines.
If it's been running and fresh gas has been put in it periodically, you shouldn't be having much of a problem with the carbs being dirty, but there is always a possibility. Give Star Tron a go before you tear into the carbs. I use it in my lawn equipment, cars and bike with good results. It's being sold in just about every motorcycle and small engine shop in town.
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Old December 24th, 2012, 07:11 PM   #17
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Well I could definitely see the carbs being dirty. I mean sure I've put fresh gas in it but from 2007-2012 I have no service records from that owner. Who knows how well they really maintained it...

Last futzed with by chadh92; December 25th, 2012 at 04:57 PM.
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Old December 26th, 2012, 11:29 AM   #18
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I'm going to try seafoaming first just to see how well it works. I know cleaning the carbs by hand is the best choice but I'd like to wait until spring before I give it a really good cleaning. Will post back with results!
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Old December 26th, 2012, 12:21 PM   #19
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I'm going to try seafoaming first just to see how well it works. I know cleaning the carbs by hand is the best choice but I'd like to wait until spring before I give it a really good cleaning. Will post back with results!
Right now I'm not a really big fan of Seafoam, however many swear by it, some not so much. I'll offer one last piece of info about fuel stabilizer. All of them have different concentrations and mix ratio's so be careful when using them.

Star Tron also makes a marine formula, however you don't have to worry about over dosing or getting the mix ratio wrong. A little Star Tron goes a long way.


If you still run into problems, PM me. There are a few of us here in Charlotte that maybe able to help you out.
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Old December 26th, 2012, 03:20 PM   #20
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Closest store to me didn't have Seafoam, so I just grabbed some Stabil. Mixed in the right amount, rode for 10 minutes, put it back in the garage. Hopefully while it sits until tomorrow it might be able to "unclog" some of the paths. I know it's not a miracle worker like Seafoam, but i'll see what happens.

My idle wasn't fluctuating too bad today, actually. It sat around 2,500rpm (where I left it last) pretty smoothly. Sometimes it would sit at 2,500 no problem, and a few seconds later it might be fluctuating +-100rpm, but not much at all. Once I had it warmed up and back in my driveway (in neutral), I would rev it up to ~6,000 rpm and then close the throttle. When the tach came back down, it would drop to about 1,400RPM and then slowly rise up to 2,500RPM over the next 15-20 seconds. That's with the choke closed. It didn't sound like it was about to die or anything though. Throttle reactions were quick and not sporadic or abnormal by any means.

I know the bike isn't running its best right now, but I'm glad it's still running good enough to get around town. I don't mind burning a little bit more fuel from a high idle, but I'd hate to scrub the carbs now and then have it gunked up again after sitting for most of the next 3-4 months.

If there's a group of us in Charlotte, do you guys meet up often? I'd be up for one and maybe you guys can get a better idea of what my problem might be by hearing/riding the bike.
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Old December 26th, 2012, 05:06 PM   #21
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....Closest store to me didn't have Seafoam, so I just grabbed some Stabil.
Any AutoZone, Advanced Auto, O'Reilly's or Walmart has Seafoam. Which Stabil did you use? One is a stabilizer and the other a stabilizer/cleaner ethanol treatment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chadh92 View Post
....My idle wasn't fluctuating too bad today, actually. It sat around 2,500rpm (where I left it last) pretty smoothly. Sometimes it would sit at 2,500 no problem, and a few seconds later it might be fluctuating +-100rpm, but not much at all. Once I had it warmed up and back in my driveway (in neutral), I would rev it up to ~6,000 rpm and then close the throttle. When the tach came back down, it would drop to about 1,400RPM and then slowly rise up to 2,500RPM over the next 15-20 seconds. That's with the choke closed. It didn't sound like it was about to die or anything though. Throttle reactions were quick and not sporadic or abnormal by any means.
You should have set the idle where it came back down to and was steady.

Quote:
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....If there's a group of us in Charlotte, do you guys meet up often? I'd be up for one and maybe you guys can get a better idea of what my problem might be by hearing/riding the bike.
It's not a group, but a few of us will hook up and ride whenever. I think Old Guy on a '08 (Chris) is riding on Monday and I was riding on Friday. We may find a day to hook up. BTW, say hello over in the New Member Section.
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Old December 26th, 2012, 05:31 PM   #22
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.... I don't mind burning a little bit more fuel from a high idle...
It's not so much that you will burn extra gas, at that idle speed you can be a little on the lean side and it will cause the engine to heat up more, especially when the ambient temps go up.

Know that clunking you get when shifting from neutral to 1st? It gets better at a lower idle speed.
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