Bike/Medical Insurance in CA

harlumjp · February 11th, 2011, 10:43 AM

Ok so maybe I am naive and didn't know this already...BUT

I just found out from State Farm (my bike insurance) that in CA at least, if you go down on a bike they will not pay your medical costs (as they do in car crashes). I thought this was crazy but they said since the likelihood of getting hurt is so high, they won't cover those costs.

Something to think about if you don't have health insurance like me. But if you are hit by someone else (as in my case) and it was the other driver's fault, their insurance will be responsible for your medical expenses....

CThunder-blue · February 11th, 2011, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harlumjp

Ok so maybe I am naive and didn't know this already...BUT

I just found out from State Farm (my bike insurance) that in CA at least, if you go down on a bike they will not pay your medical costs (as they do in car crashes). I thought this was crazy but they said since the likelihood of getting hurt is so high, they won't cover those costs.

Something to think about if you don't have health insurance like me. But if you are hit by someone else (as in my case) and it was the other driver's fault, their insurance will be responsible for your medical expenses....

That's not true. Where did you hear this from? I have $100k/$300k insurance for medical from state farm for my bike.

Nemesis · February 11th, 2011, 11:12 AM

Yeah...if you're paying for medical through your car/motorcycle insurance carrier they can't deny you of that privilege.

FrugalNinja250 · February 11th, 2011, 11:15 AM

Car coverage and bike coverage are two entirely different policies, so any medical you have on the car will not apply to the bike. If the accident was caused by another party *and* they have insurance (a big IF in my state of Texas) their policy will cover your medical costs up to the limits of their policy. After that you're on your own unless they have homeowner's with a blanket liability policy.

CThunder-blue · February 11th, 2011, 11:51 AM

We're not talking about car coverage to cover your motorcycle medical. If you have motorcycle insurance with the right coverage, then they will pay for your medical bills. I think if you only have liability is when they aren't responsible. I would never buy only liability for MC insurance. Full coverage is the only way for me.

Nemesis · February 11th, 2011, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

We're not talking about car coverage to cover your motorcycle medical. If you have motorcycle insurance with the right coverage, then they will pay for your medical bills. I think if you only have liability is when they aren't responsible. I would never buy only liability for MC insurance. Full coverage is the only way for me.

RatherUneek · February 11th, 2011, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

That's not true. Where did you hear this from? I have $100k/$300k insurance for medical from state farm for my bike.

That is the Bodily Injury portion of the liability and is payable to the other party.

State Farm offers Personal Injury Protection, in Texas anyway, up to $2500 which would cover medical costs if you went down. PIP on an auto policy covers you in any automobile related accident where you are hurt in anybody's car whether you are driving or not. However, this coverage does not extend to motorcycles. I think that may be what the OP is referring to.

gfloyd2002 · February 11th, 2011, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harlumjp

Ok so maybe I am naive and didn't know this already...BUT

I just found out from State Farm (my bike insurance) that in CA at least, if you go down on a bike they will not pay your medical costs (as they do in car crashes). I thought this was crazy but they said since the likelihood of getting hurt is so high, they won't cover those costs.

Something to think about if you don't have health insurance like me. But if you are hit by someone else (as in my case) and it was the other driver's fault, their insurance will be responsible for your medical expenses....

You need to change insurers. You'll want to look into buying "medical payments coverage" or "personal injury protection" (also called PIP) coverage, but it is not offered by all companies in all states. (California, because of the legal climate, makes it a more expensive place to offer PIP or Medpay coverage.) GEICO does offer it in California, as does Allstate and, my insurer, USAA.

As an aside, you should make sure that you haven't simply bought a liability policy to meet California minimum DMV requirements. Comprehensive coverage is something you probably want to consider for theft (and other bike damage) in addition to the PIP/medpay coverage.

Alex · February 11th, 2011, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harlumjp

Something to think about if you don't have health insurance like me.

Youch, Jordan! Glad your injuries weren't too serious, but even they can get expensive real fast. Before hopping on the next bike, seriously consider budgeting for health insurance as part of the cost. Even if it is one targeted at catastrophic care only (which would only kick in after a high deductible, but comes along with relatively low premiums). It could truly be the difference between solvency and bankruptcy if a rider gets seriously injured on a bike.

Live2ride · February 11th, 2011, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harlumjp

Something to think about if you don't have health insurance like me.

me neither, simply can't afford it. Its around $650 a month for family coverage I think...that's not gonna happen.

kkim · February 11th, 2011, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

It could truly be the difference between solvency and bankruptcy if a rider gets seriously injured on a bike.

eye opening fact, isn't it?

gfloyd2002 · February 11th, 2011, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

eye opening fact, isn't it?

Sure is. Worth highlighting that getting PIP/medpay insurance on moto policy probably won't be enough to protect against this. The coverage is capped -- mine is, I think 5k. Geico caps at 2k, etc. Which is great for a ER trip and some followup, but not for something really serious.

FrugalNinja250 · February 11th, 2011, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Live2ride

me neither, simply can't afford it. Its around $650 a month for family coverage I think...that's not gonna happen.

No kidding. Also, if you read the fine print on open market policies like this (as opposed to what's offered through an employer) you'll discover that most any pre-existing condition will either not be covered for some period like a year, or not at all ever. So if you had cancer as a kid you won't get coverage as an adult. Have diabetes? Subsequent issues like kidney and heart problems won't be covered. They'll typically drop you if you get a major illness, too. Those private policies really are geared toward people who never get sick.

My employer is currently paying $10,515 a year for family coverage, the employee pays $300/head for family members on top of that. It's mind-boggling... They're paying over 6,000 a year for me, and I'm relatively healthy.

rwheelz · February 11th, 2011, 04:50 PM

Soon you will be required to have health insurance by federal law. Problem solved!

We carry liability-only coverage on our bikes, BUT we have decent health insurance.

Cuongism · February 11th, 2011, 05:05 PM

When I lived in Boston, health insurance was required (you'd get penalized on your taxes if you didn't have it). I believe they did offer affordable health insurance from the government (I'm lazy and always go with work healthcare).

I carry liability only on the 250 as well (figured the extra costs for full coverage will eventually equal the costs of the bike after a couple of years).

harlumjp · February 11th, 2011, 05:40 PM

Goes to show how twisted and complicated our health care structure is in the US.

My agent with state farm & the claims dept. both told me it is an industry standard not to provide motorcycle riders with medical coverage on their bike policy, which of course is separate from car policy.

I did not realize this so you all should definitely check with your carrier to make sure what exactly is covered...

turtlejoe · February 11th, 2011, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

It could truly be the difference between solvency and bankruptcy if a rider gets seriously injured on a bike.

Seen it - happened to my older brother after a serious accident on PCH. It hasn't been pretty and he likely will never recover financially.

Live2ride · February 11th, 2011, 07:17 PM

I hate to think of health insurance as being required by law. It wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't $600-$700 a month....that's just highway robbery. There's no way in hell that more than 50% of the middle class could afford that. The Feds can suck it. They ruined this generations social security too. I wish Reagen was back in office.

Rexbo · February 11th, 2011, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harlumjp

I did not realize this so you all should definitely check with your carrier to make sure what exactly is covered...

+1 to this. I've got both medical insurance through my full coverage policy through Progressive (~$142/month, $100k medical coverage) and a personal health insurance policy through work ($250k/$1mil). Never be too covered!

Havok · February 11th, 2011, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexbo

+1 to this. I've got both medical insurance through my full coverage policy through Progressive (~$142/month, $100k medical coverage) and a personal health insurance policy through work ($250k/$1mil). Never be too covered!

Yup, I have my coverage through progressive as well. I will keep them as long as I can too. When my bike was stolen they were there for me 100% of the way and so damn nice about it. I am also lucky to have a good union job so full health as well.

As a two time cancer survivor I honestly feel for people that can't/dont have health insurance. The cost of medical care is insane.

FrugalNinja250 · February 12th, 2011, 04:00 PM

Yeah, we pay the highest per-capita health costs in the world, and places like Japan and Singapore have better quality care than ours. Put another way: Of all the countries that even have a health care system, we get the least service per dollar spent of any of them.

It's unsustainable, and the later we wait until making real changes with an eye to long-term success the more expensive and difficult it will be. It's like, do you treat a cut minutes after you got it, or do you wait until it's so infected that gangrene has set in? It seems like it would be cheaper in the short run to not treat it, and it is, but in the long run it costs far more to deal with the mess resulting from delayed treatment. The alternative is to let it go and die.

But back on topic: Yeah, I've been debating whether to get uninsured/underinsured coverage on my bike. My carrier won't sell accidental health care coverage separately, only bundled with full property damage coverage. That runs over $100/month, which seems stupid considering the bike's only worth maybe $1,500.

wyckedflesh · February 14th, 2011, 08:13 AM

Make certain that your Employer Provided Medical does NOT have a Rider that will not cover you for Motorcycle/ATV/Powersports injuries. Even though they are supposed to notify you at the time you enroll, since they are NOT required to have you initial a section indicating that you are aware of the Rider, they can deny you after the fact. Meaning you find out after they find out it is a Motorcycle or Powersport related injury and send you a bill for what they paid out, OR the Hospital sends you a bill for the full Pop and not with the discount provided to the insurance carrier.

I make sure to ASK that question during Open Enrollment when it is a group meeting. This way, if they tell me at Open Enrollment that it is covered, I have a room full of witnesses :-) Makes it much easier when you send your complaint to the Department of Insurance with 35-40 affidavits that you asked and were told it was covered :-)

BTW I learned this the hard way.

lumi · February 24th, 2011, 06:39 PM

Thanks to this thread, I asked my employer's health insurance provider about motorcycle accidents and found out that they don't cover ANY vehicle accidents at all, car or motorcycle!

If it's the other party's fault, their insurance will pay. If it's my fault, my motorcycle insurance should pay. In case of uninsured / underinsured, same thing, I have coverage for that. But if I just crash on my own, Progressive only offers me up to $25 000 medical payments and my health insurance won't pay anything.

Any ideas how to get around this? Can't think of any other insurances I could buy...

m11 · February 24th, 2011, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumi

Any ideas how to get around this? Can't think of any other insurances I could buy...

From my perspective as an Allstate agent in Florida, I'll mention a few things:

Your best bet is to speak with your agent as well as checking out some other companies in the area.

Every state has different laws and every company has different policies. Insurance in California is different from insurance in Texas and Progressive in Florida is different from Progressive in New York.

Speak to your agent and don't speculate -- get a definitive answer. You want to know what your coverages provide BEFORE you have an incident. Make sure you are protected. Grill your agent to ensure that you understand all aspects of your policy. Do not be shy. If you agent cannot ultimately find an answer to ALL of your questions, find a new agent.

kkim · February 24th, 2011, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m11

From my perspective as an Allstate agent in Florida, I'll mention a few things:

Your best bet is to speak with your agent as well as checking out some other companies in the area.

Every state has different laws and every company has different policies. Insurance in California is different from insurance in Texas and Progressive in Florida is different from Progressive in New York.

Speak to your agent and don't speculate -- get a definitive answer. You want to know what your coverages provide BEFORE you have an incident. Make sure you are protected. Grill your agent to ensure that you understand all aspects of your policy. Do not be shy. If you agent cannot ultimately find an answer to ALL of your questions, find a new agent.

that is some excellent advice.

Alex · February 24th, 2011, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumi

Any ideas how to get around this? Can't think of any other insurances I could buy...

You can get personal health insurance. It's very expensive for anything resembling similar coverage to what many employers offer. But it can be cheaper if the only coverage you buy is catastrophic. The intent of those policies is to have huge deductibles, so it only really kicks in when there is a severe / expensive medical issue; it's not good for regular doctor visits. But as auxiliary coverage in case of a motorcycle or vehicle accident, it could be a huge help (in the unlucky situation where something were to happen).

http://www.myinsurancequotes.net/

(not a recommendation of that site in particular, it was just what came up first in a google search).

m11 · February 25th, 2011, 12:37 AM

I'm not sure what they have in California but in Florida, Allstate has a program called "Accident Insurance". It provides disability, medical payments, hospital fees, as well as a death benefit.

I got the policy when I bought my first bike.

lumi · February 25th, 2011, 08:46 AM

Thanks everyone for your suggestions!! I'll start by calling Progressive and asking if they have Accident Insurance and go from there.

harlumjp · February 25th, 2011, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumi

If it's my fault, my motorcycle insurance should pay. In case of uninsured / underinsured, same thing, I have coverage for that. But if I just crash on my own, Progressive only offers me up to $25 000 medical payments and my health insurance won't pay anything.

I am assuming Progressive is your motorcycle insurance? My State Farm agent and claims adjuster both told me "In CA, motorcycle insurers typically do not cover medical costs if the accident is your fault." They said that happens because of the high likelihood that we will go down.

So if Progressive DOES in fact cover medical costs in the event a crash is your fault, I need to consider moving to them when I ride again someday.

Just curious what is your monthly premium?

lumi · February 25th, 2011, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harlumjp

I am assuming Progressive is your motorcycle insurance? My State Farm agent and claims adjuster both told me "In CA, motorcycle insurers typically do not cover medical costs if the accident is your fault." They said that happens because of the high likelihood that we will go down.

So if Progressive DOES in fact cover medical costs in the event a crash is your fault, I need to consider moving to them when I ride again someday.

Just curious what is your monthly premium?

Thanks everyone for the advice!

I'll actually have to check with Progressive that the medical payments would cover me even if the accident is my fault. I just assumed that. I'll let you know!

lumi · March 1st, 2011, 05:15 PM

It took me awhile to get a definitive answer from Progressive, but it turns out that their Med Pay covers regardless of fault after all other sources have been exhausted. $25 000 is the maximum coverage.

According to Progressive, the Med Pay will also cover me in any other vehicle besides the bike and also as a pedestrian.

Quote:

Just curious what is your monthly premium?

The yearly premium is $812 with 250 000 / 500 000 and 25 000 Med Pay

harlumjp · March 1st, 2011, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumi

It took me awhile to get a definitive answer from Progressive, but it turns out that their Med Pay covers regardless of fault after all other sources have been exhausted. $25 000 is the maximum coverage.

According to Progressive, the Med Pay will also cover me in any other vehicle besides the bike and also as a pedestrian.

The yearly premium is $812 with 250 000 / 500 000 and 25 000 Med Pay

Wow so I don't know why State Farm is telling me the industry standard is to NOT provide med pay in the event it is your fault. I guess that's why my yearly premium was only $176.

lumi · March 1st, 2011, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harlumjp

Wow so I don't know why State Farm is telling me the industry standard is to NOT provide med pay in the event it is your fault. I guess that's why my yearly premium was only $176.

Heh, yeah, that's quite a difference $176 vs $812. I don't have any comprehensive etc for the bike, because it's a 06 that's been dropped by the previous owner and me a couple of times

February 11th, 2011, 10:43 AM	#1
harlumjp ninjette.org member Name: Jordan Location: Orange County, CA Join Date: May 2010 Motorcycle(s): Totaled 2010 Ninja 250r :( Posts: 77	Bike/Medical Insurance in CA Ok so maybe I am naive and didn't know this already...BUT I just found out from State Farm (my bike insurance) that in CA at least, if you go down on a bike they will not pay your medical costs (as they do in car crashes). I thought this was crazy but they said since the likelihood of getting hurt is so high, they won't cover those costs. Something to think about if you don't have health insurance like me. But if you are hit by someone else (as in my case) and it was the other driver's fault, their insurance will be responsible for your medical expenses....

February 11th, 2011, 04:50 PM	#14
rwheelz Moroccan Gold Imports Name: RJ Location: MT Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): '03 ZX9R, '03 ZX7R & wife's '09 250R Posts: 136	Soon you will be required to have health insurance by federal law. Problem solved! We carry liability-only coverage on our bikes, BUT we have decent health insurance. __________________________________________________ MOROCCAN GOLD IMPORTS Where Excess Meets Extreme

February 11th, 2011, 07:17 PM	#18
Live2ride ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Cody Location: NoVa Join Date: Jan 2011 Motorcycle(s): 06 yzf r6r previously: 09 ninja 250r, black 07 zx6r Posts: A lot.	I hate to think of health insurance as being required by law. It wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't $600-$700 a month....that's just highway robbery. There's no way in hell that more than 50% of the middle class could afford that. The Feds can suck it. They ruined this generations social security too. I wish Reagen was back in office. __________________________________________________

February 14th, 2011, 08:13 AM	#22
wyckedflesh ninjette.org guru Name: Mikel Location: Valley of the Sun Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): '09 Blue Kawasaki KLE650 Versys, '95 Ducati 900SS/CR (undergoing track conversion) Posts: 287	Make certain that your Employer Provided Medical does NOT have a Rider that will not cover you for Motorcycle/ATV/Powersports injuries. Even though they are supposed to notify you at the time you enroll, since they are NOT required to have you initial a section indicating that you are aware of the Rider, they can deny you after the fact. Meaning you find out after they find out it is a Motorcycle or Powersport related injury and send you a bill for what they paid out, OR the Hospital sends you a bill for the full Pop and not with the discount provided to the insurance carrier. I make sure to ASK that question during Open Enrollment when it is a group meeting. This way, if they tell me at Open Enrollment that it is covered, I have a room full of witnesses :-) Makes it much easier when you send your complaint to the Department of Insurance with 35-40 affidavits that you asked and were told it was covered :-) BTW I learned this the hard way. __________________________________________________ 2009 KLE650 LSL bars, Full Muzzy PC-V 1995 900SS/CR mildly modified

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February 11th, 2011, 11:12 AM	#3
Nemesis CVMA #74 WSMC #750 Name: Nemesis Location: On the track Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.	Yeah...if you're paying for medical through your car/motorcycle insurance carrier they can't deny you of that privilege.

February 11th, 2011, 11:15 AM	#4
FrugalNinja250 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Frugal Location: Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW) Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): Several Posts: A lot.	Car coverage and bike coverage are two entirely different policies, so any medical you have on the car will not apply to the bike. If the accident was caused by another party and they have insurance (a big IF in my state of Texas) their policy will cover your medical costs up to the limits of their policy. After that you're on your own unless they have homeowner's with a blanket liability policy.

February 11th, 2011, 11:51 AM	#5
CThunder-blue ModMy250.com Name: Tri Location: St, Louis Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R, 2005 R6 Posts: A lot.	We're not talking about car coverage to cover your motorcycle medical. If you have motorcycle insurance with the right coverage, then they will pay for your medical bills. I think if you only have liability is when they aren't responsible. I would never buy only liability for MC insurance. Full coverage is the only way for me.

February 11th, 2011, 05:05 PM	#15
Cuongism ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Cuong Location: San Diego Join Date: Jul 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250r, 2007 Daytona 675 Posts: A lot.	When I lived in Boston, health insurance was required (you'd get penalized on your taxes if you didn't have it). I believe they did offer affordable health insurance from the government (I'm lazy and always go with work healthcare). I carry liability only on the 250 as well (figured the extra costs for full coverage will eventually equal the costs of the bike after a couple of years).

February 11th, 2011, 05:40 PM	#16
harlumjp ninjette.org member Name: Jordan Location: Orange County, CA Join Date: May 2010 Motorcycle(s): Totaled 2010 Ninja 250r :( Posts: 77	Goes to show how twisted and complicated our health care structure is in the US. My agent with state farm & the claims dept. both told me it is an industry standard not to provide motorcycle riders with medical coverage on their bike policy, which of course is separate from car policy. I did not realize this so you all should definitely check with your carrier to make sure what exactly is covered...

February 12th, 2011, 04:00 PM	#21
FrugalNinja250 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Frugal Location: Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW) Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): Several Posts: A lot.	Yeah, we pay the highest per-capita health costs in the world, and places like Japan and Singapore have better quality care than ours. Put another way: Of all the countries that even have a health care system, we get the least service per dollar spent of any of them. It's unsustainable, and the later we wait until making real changes with an eye to long-term success the more expensive and difficult it will be. It's like, do you treat a cut minutes after you got it, or do you wait until it's so infected that gangrene has set in? It seems like it would be cheaper in the short run to not treat it, and it is, but in the long run it costs far more to deal with the mess resulting from delayed treatment. The alternative is to let it go and die. But back on topic: Yeah, I've been debating whether to get uninsured/underinsured coverage on my bike. My carrier won't sell accidental health care coverage separately, only bundled with full property damage coverage. That runs over $100/month, which seems stupid considering the bike's only worth maybe $1,500.

February 24th, 2011, 06:39 PM	#23
lumi ninjette.org member Name: Lumi Location: SoCal Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): 06 Ninja 250 Posts: 16	Thanks to this thread, I asked my employer's health insurance provider about motorcycle accidents and found out that they don't cover ANY vehicle accidents at all, car or motorcycle! If it's the other party's fault, their insurance will pay. If it's my fault, my motorcycle insurance should pay. In case of uninsured / underinsured, same thing, I have coverage for that. But if I just crash on my own, Progressive only offers me up to $25 000 medical payments and my health insurance won't pay anything. Any ideas how to get around this? Can't think of any other insurances I could buy...

February 25th, 2011, 12:37 AM	#27
m11 ninjette.org member Name: M11 Location: Florida Join Date: Jan 2011 Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja 250R Posts: 28	I'm not sure what they have in California but in Florida, Allstate has a program called "Accident Insurance". It provides disability, medical payments, hospital fees, as well as a death benefit. I got the policy when I bought my first bike.

February 25th, 2011, 08:46 AM	#28
lumi ninjette.org member Name: Lumi Location: SoCal Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): 06 Ninja 250 Posts: 16	Thanks everyone for your suggestions!! I'll start by calling Progressive and asking if they have Accident Insurance and go from there.