Insurance + Ticket Question

[subiegy2010]

A couple weeks ago I got pulled over for the first time in ~5yrs for doing 16 over. I was given 4 points and a court date sometime in May. I'm taking it to court and my lawyer says they will most likely drop it down to 2 points. I am planning on buying motorcycle insurance sometime within the next few weeks; but my question is if the insurance company will currently see that I have 4 points on my license, or 0 points until after the court date. So basically, should I buy insurance before or after this speeding ticket goes to court?

[Xoulrath]

So, are you currently riding without insurance?

[Jesse8931]

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

So, are you currently riding without insurance?

legal in some states

[phr3ek]

go to traffic school
out here in cali you dont get points if you go to traffic school

[subiegy2010]

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

So, are you currently riding without insurance?

I am currently not riding...it was snowing the other day up here. If it was legal to ride without insurance though, I probably would; which is why I'm getting the cheapest insurance possible. For the small amount I ride, the cost of a policy that would actually be worthwhile is ridiculous for me as a young driver/rider. In some cases, literally more than the bike is worth if calculated over the coarse of a couple years. The only thing I'm worried about in case of an accident is my own health, in which case my health insurance has me covered. I'm sorry but I see no point in spending a ton of money insuring a toy that I ride ~1-1.5k miles per year....especially when the insurance costs more than the value of the bike and therefore any possible repairs that would be necessary. Not to mention that if I actually report an accident and have insurance cover the cost of a broken fairing for example ($300), the price will skyrocket even higher. Not to mention the stupid fact that I only ride 4 months out of the year, and am forced to buy a policy for an entire year.

But I didn't start this thread asking to be convinced why insurance is important. I have a specific question that I was hoping someone could answer for me.

Originally Posted by phr3ek

go to traffic school
out here in cali you dont get points if you go to traffic school

That was not an option that was given to me. And even if it was, I wouldn't take it. I simply don't have time for that nonsense. I have literally never been pulled over prior to this. I was going 51 in a 45 at 9pm on a completely empty road. I didn't notice the change in speed limit sign and the cop was waiting RIGHT where it changed to 35. Can you say speed trap?

[subiegy2010]

Originally Posted by Noob

I'm glad you got pulled over before you got in a wreck. No insurance and a wreck dont go together one bit. I suggest you get insurance before the court date because it's not in your record. Ever heard of "innocent until proven guilty"? Well youre still innocent until the court date, so you dont have those 4 points. Dont mention anything to the insurance company.

So some states dont require insurance, and some dont require helmets. I sure as hell hope you wear a helmet!

Good luck!

P.S. I just saw your new post. Cheap isn't always the best route. I know. I wrecked 3 weeks ago and apparently I'm at fault. I had liability insurance, so all the damages came out of my pocket. Think about it and make a smart decision. Some things are worth getting. Also get a "6 consecutive months" plan if thats what you want. Progressive and other companies should have that plan.

I got pulled over in my car, not on my bike. I would hardly consider going 51 on a 2 lane empty road at night to be dangerous enough to get into a wreck...

I wear full gear from the ground up when I ride. If the bike is wrecked...oh well. I got it for $2500. Not saying that's pocket change or anything, but it won't be the end of the world if it's lost; again, it's just a toy for me, not a commuter vehicle or anything. Over the coarse of a couple riding seasons, I would have essentially paid for a new $2k bike if I were to get a policy that is actually worthwhile. I didn't know there was a 6 month plan, it didn't show up as an option for me online. I'll have to call and see how much it would be. Thanks for the tip on that one!

[Cuongism]

"Innocent until proven guilty" doesn't apply to moving violations since it generally never goes to court (not just a mediator). If it does go to court and the officer shows up, their witness account is generally enough to provide guilt.

To the original question, it doesn't matter what your points are when you get your insurance. If the 4 points are added after you go to your court date, your insurance will be notified and your policy adjusted accordingly. Generally, points are added after you are convicted.

Edit: I have progressive on both my bikes and didn't see a 6 month offer either (just 12 month). My auto is on a six month plan though with Progressive. It's all year riding here, but maybe others just cancel their plan when winter hits?

[Boom King]

Originally Posted by subiegy2010

Not to mention that if I actually report an accident and have insurance cover the cost of a broken fairing for example ($300), the price will skyrocket even higher. Not to mention the stupid fact that I only ride 4 months out of the year, and am forced to buy a policy for an entire year.

Well I really hope people are not making insurance claims for $300 worth of damage to plastic fairings. Keep in mind that most insurance policies have deductibles to discourage and reduce these type of frivolous claims and insurance is intended to cover bigger losses. Are motorcycles policies in your State charged on a seasonal basis? For instance, my policy insures me the entire year but I'm actually charged a premium for the riding season of 6 months.

Anyways back to the question at hand; I believe if you intend to fight the charge it should not be counted against you until you are legally convicted. At least this is how it works here in the province of Ontario, Canada. Here, even if you tell them you got pulled over and charged, the insurance companies cannot hold something against you until you are legally proven guilty of that charge and it appears on your driver's abstract. Maybe someone here from your State can offer you more specific advice if this is how it works. Best of luck.

[LoneRonin]

Until your court date comes up and you are formally convicted in court your record is clear. There is nothing for them to see on your record yet...just because you got a ticket don't mean ****, its only on your record once your convicted of the charge either in court, or by admitting guilt and paying the ticket on your own...So go out and get insurance quick before you get that conviction on your record, if you need more time adjourn the court date...
Don't listen to the people saying your insurance will be notified after...thats BS, no ones going to go tell them unless you do yourself. It costs the insurance companies money for your drivers abstract...you could get by with them not pulling your record again for a couple years. Going into my second season I had a ticket but my insurance didn't check my record because nothing changed, I had no claims same bike..and my insurance dropped 40%, if they knew about the ticket I doubt it would have. I hope they don't check this year either, if they do atleast I have a couple years experience and am 21 now, so that should help.

[subiegy2010]

Originally Posted by Noob

Stop thinking of it as a toy or youll become its toy. Once youre on that bike, it wont matter if youre on a one lane road; You can wreck when you least expect it, and it wont be pretty because youll be hurt and have to pay for your damages from your own pocket. That all the advice I can give you, and in my opinion, its the best you can get.

It's a toy in the sense that it will not be vital to get it repaired if it is wrecked. My car on the other hand has full coverage, because first of all it is worth much more than $2k, and second of all it is a vital means of transportation. If the bike is wrecked, I do not intend on fixing it; out of pocket or otherwise. If I am hurt, health insurance will cover any health related bills. Thanks for the opinion though.

BTW, I'm confused why you are even connecting my bike to the exact circumstances of the speeding ticket. Again, I wasn't even on my bike when that happened so what does that have to do with anything? For the record, I could safely go highway speeds on that road on either my bike or in my car; the speed limit changes just before the on-ramp to a highway. The officer actually pulled me over when I was already on the highway.

[Cuongism]

I guess it technically does apply that you're innocent until proven guilty, but people are generally guilty of the moving violation. The officer's witness account is generally enough and he has the radar gun to back him up. Obviously a speed trap, but he is guilty of the speeding.

Also, with the cases I've seen, the defendant generally has to provide evidence that he/she's innocent (providing pictures, faulty equipment, etc). The judicial system is fairly flawed but that's another story.

Good luck with the case though Ilya.

[subiegy2010]

I have a radar detector and it didn't go off at all. He either lasered me, eyeballed my speed, or got behind me and matched my speed.

[AMMOCAN]

Originally Posted by LoneRonin

Don't listen to the people saying your insurance will be notified after...thats BS, no ones going to go tell them unless you do yourself. It costs the insurance companies money for your drivers abstract...you could get by with them not pulling your record again for a couple years. Going into my second season I had a ticket but my insurance didn't check my record because nothing changed, I had no claims same bike..and my insurance dropped 40%, if they knew about the ticket I doubt it would have. I hope they don't check this year either, if they do atleast I have a couple years experience and am 21 now, so that should help.

Well, either consider yourself lucky or be thankful for a flawed system where you live because I know for a fact that doesn't fly here in the U.S.

I am not sure exactly how it works, but I do know that once there is a change made to your driving record in the DMV system the insurance company gets the same information. Now, your guess is as good as mine on wether the DMV automatically sends the report to the insurance company or the insurance requests it themselves on an interval basis, but the fact remains that they do get it.

Here is the U.S. it only costs you about $10 for you to get a DMV driving report. I am sure if the insurance companies have to pay for this then they probably have some sort of deal made, as they pay for so many of them over a course of a year.

Of course it is in the best interest of the insurance company to stay on top of their customers driving record, as they are in the business of making money and if they can charge their customer more money then believe me they will!

As for it costing them too much, well if it only costs the individual customer about $10 and that ends up being what they have to pay, although highly unlikely, that is still a small amount to pay considering how much they get from you each month along with the possibility that they may receive more money from you by keeping tabs on your record.

Bottom line is the insurance company will find out! I myself along with many other people that I know, who live in various States in the U.S., have all experienced this at one time or another over the course of having our license.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by subiegy2010

BTW, I'm confused why you are even connecting my bike to the exact circumstances of the speeding ticket.

Uhhh, it's a motorcycle forum, and your first and second post made no mention of the fact you were driving, not riding, when you got your ticket. It's natural to assume someone posting on a motorcycle forum who doesn't mention he's not on a motorcycle was riding a motorcycle.

WRT the "safe" comment, the law has no provision to take into account whether an illegal activity was safe. It's a statute, which means violating the statute is illegal regardless of how safely you can do so.

Regarding insurance: You should carry at least liability, because if you are in an accident where you are fully or partially at fault you will be paying the other person's costs out of your own pocket. You should also look at getting an insurance rider for the bike (and car) that pays the out of pocket costs of your medical insurance policy. I've got one that's just a few dollars a month that will pay the $6,000 out of pocket (deductible, copays, etc) of mine.

Remember, before getting all snarky about how people are responding to your posts, you should go re-read your posts and see if you were clear from the get-go.

[subiegy2010]

Originally Posted by subiegy2010

I got pulled over in my car, not on my bike. I would hardly consider going 51 on a 2 lane empty road at night to be dangerous enough to get into a wreck...

Originally Posted by Noob

Stop thinking of it as a toy or youll become its toy. Once youre on that bike, it wont matter if youre on a one lane road; You can wreck when you least expect it, and it wont be pretty because youll be hurt and have to pay for your damages from your own pocket. That all the advice I can give you, and in my opinion, its the best you can get.

I clearly said I was driving before his post. Noob quoted me saying I was driving. I think that is a good enough reason to assume everyone knows I wasn't on my bike... You should consider re-reading the posts in order.

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

WRT the "safe" comment, the law has no provision to take into account whether an illegal activity was safe. It's a statute, which means violating the statute is illegal regardless of how safely you can do so.

I never said the officer was wrong for pulling me over or that I didn't break the law. I simply meant that I was not doing anything dangerous or reckless in response to his comment about being happy I got pulled over before I crashed.

Thanks to everyone who had helpful responses!

[Xoulrath]

Ilya, it was five posts in before you mentioned you weren't riding. That was why I asked about your insurance coverage. I thought it was weird that you were riding and got a ticket for speeding, and then went looking for insurance. I know in some states insurance isn't required. So being a MC forum, I thought you were on a bike as well.

Good luck in your quest. The only advice I can give you is to shop around, but don't be surprised to see that premium go up after the fact when the company checks your driving record.

[subiegy2010]

Originally Posted by Noob

I assumed you were riding as well. Frugal has a point that this is a motorcycle forum, so we all assumed without any doubt that you were riding. We're not trying to argue with you, but simply trying to understand your situation. We're here to help, as many of us have clearly done.

In the following post, you quoted me saying I was in my car, so I'm pretty sure at that point you knew I was driving:

Originally Posted by Noob

Stop thinking of it as a toy or youll become its toy. Once youre on that bike, it wont matter if youre on a one lane road; You can wreck when you least expect it, and it wont be pretty because youll be hurt and have to pay for your damages from your own pocket. That all the advice I can give you, and in my opinion, its the best you can get.

And my next post was responding directly to that post, not anything before that post. I agree that before that I did not make it clear that I was driving and not riding. Just because it wasn't mentioned in the OP doesn't mean you didn't know about it at the time you responded to the post in question.

And again, thanks for the help some of you were able to offer!

[subiegy2010]

Originally Posted by Cuongism

Edit: I have progressive on both my bikes and didn't see a 6 month offer either (just 12 month). My auto is on a six month plan though with Progressive. It's all year riding here, but maybe others just cancel their plan when winter hits?

Called up progressive and they do not have 6mo. coverage on bikes. But, they said I can cancel for a $30 free and get a prorated refund so that's what I'll do at the end of September. The monthly fee ended up being pretty reasonable for minimum coverage so I'm pretty happy about that.

[Xoulrath]

So how much are you paying?

[Reswob]

Originally Posted by AMMOCAN

Bottom line is the insurance company will find out! I myself along with many other people that I know, who live in various States in the U.S., have all experienced this at one time or another over the course of having our license.

No they won't. In 2 states where I've held a driver's license (and got multiple tickets), the insurance company does not automatically get notified by anyone, and the only time they will run your record is when you open a new policy or make a claim.

[Cuongism]

Originally Posted by Reswob

No they won't. In 2 states where I've held a driver's license (and got multiple tickets), the insurance company does not automatically get notified by anyone, and the only time they will run your record is when you open a new policy or make a claim.

You can't just disagree with someone's experience because yours is different and have it as a generalized truth. Mine have gone up as well after speeding tickets in 3 different states.

What it comes down to is who your insurance provider is and what they request from courts. Most auto policies are also 6 months long so new ones are created twice a year. There are also 5 states that do not share violations with each other (from memory, it's MA, Georgia, Wisconsin, Michigan, and TN). Many insurances now also have a "forgiveness" clause (first accident, first ticket, etc). So in the end, they might not find out right away, but they will eventually when he has to renew.

[Xoulrath]

Originally Posted by Noob

Im betting that hes paying in the 20-39/month range.

For liability only with the lowest coverage?!

Was that your experience Andy? Damn, that's a lot for a little. Sorry to hear it if that's the case.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Reswob

No they won't. In 2 states where I've held a driver's license (and got multiple tickets), the insurance company does not automatically get notified by anyone, and the only time they will run your record is when you open a new policy or make a claim.

I agree to a point. No, the insurance company will not be immediately notified of any ticket, and immediately raise rates based on the ticket. Rates change most often on renewal dates, and may be subject to change earlier if policy changes are made, or claims are submitted against the policy.

But it's quite common for insurance companies to pull driving reports and CLUE reports at the beginning of each renewal period, and if a new ticket shows up on your motor vehicle record, it's foreseeable that the quote for the new period will be somewhat higher.

More info here. My insurance has been raised quite significantly due to tickets in past years, and it always takes 3+ years before the tickets drop off and no longer affect rates. The depressing part is that a ticket in one vehicle at one time, suddenly has financial effects on the insurance policies for every single vehicle in the stable.

[Boom King]

Originally Posted by Alex

I agree to a point. No, the insurance company will not be immediately notified of any ticket, and immediately raise rates based on the ticket. Rates change most often on renewal dates, and may be subject to change earlier if policy changes are made, or claims are submitted against the policy.

But it's quite common for insurance companies to pull driving reports and CLUE reports at the beginning of each renewal period, and if a new ticket shows up on your motor vehicle record, it's foreseeable that the quote for the new period will be somewhat higher.

More info here. My insurance has been raised quite significantly due to tickets in past years, and it always takes 3+ years before the tickets drop off and no longer affect rates. The depressing part is that a ticket in one vehicle at one time, suddenly has financial effects on the insurance policies for every single vehicle in the stable.

Some companies may pull it every renewal but some don't. Up here, if you're a clean driver, they MAY pull it once every 3 years. Obtaining these reports are not cheap for these companies and multiply that by the number of policies on their books and it can be very expensive. The benefits of this doesn't always justify the associated costs. Others may only check your records if your file set off certain flags. One company up here only checks when you first apply for a policy.

Regarding the tickets, although it occurred in one vehicle at one time, unfortunately tickets are attached to the driver and to the insurance company, the driver is the same whether they are in a car or on a motorcycle. At least that's what my insurance co. says.

[AMMOCAN]

Originally Posted by Reswob

No they won't. In 2 states where I've held a driver's license (and got multiple tickets), the insurance company does not automatically get notified by anyone, and the only time they will run your record is when you open a new policy or make a claim.

Well consider yourself lucky! You can disagree all you want, but serving in the military has it's advantages and one of them is having the ability to serve with and meet not only with people from various of States, but also having the opportunity to travel and spend time in other States.

Again, say what you want, but I know what I have heard from others and have experienced myself. IMHO it is not a risk worth taking or even worth relying on, as if you get convicted for a traffic violation your insurance will eventually find out and will make you pay! Simple as that.

[subiegy2010]

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

So how much are you paying?

Originally Posted by Noob

Im betting that hes paying in the 20-39/month range.

Bingo! $27/month for the liability through Progressive. I will be canceling it at the end of the riding season to get a prorated refund minus a $30 cancellation fee.