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Old June 9th, 2017, 11:30 AM   #1
corksil
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Attempt to repair or part the bike out?

Hey I'm trying to figure out if this bike is too far gone or if it's salvageable and repairable.

First up, this may indicate a bent crankshaft. If that's the case, I don't see this bike ever running again. On the other hand, it could simply be a bent clutch basket. It went down pretty dang hard.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...FNrZFQybGRZcTg

Now for the pictures. Definitely some damage to the clutch basket. ~200 on ebay
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...Ud4TVNrZ1JMLUU

Clutch cover will obviously need replacement.. ~50 on ebay
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...E8wcDh5SHdtWjg

Top half of engine case needs replacement.. ~30 on ebay, plus about ten hours of labor.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...GRDcTNFME1iUzg

I think the clutch cable is alright but the left handlebar is definitely bent. May be able to straighten it with a torch..
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...mtpX3BHQ2FjZ0E

Right side footpeg bracket will be needed.. ~30 on ebay.. Will also need intermediate section of Area-P high mount race exhaust but that probably will be under 50 delivered.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...2pDUE5hMTlnVU0

Left side footpeg also needed ~30 on ebay. And the mounting tabs on the frame are also bent.. not sure if they can be straightened.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...XBJbktDTEhER2M

Doesn't look like this will last very long..
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...kZDaDItZVc4LWc

Not to mention the cosmetics. The fairings are trashed. That doesn't really bother me as I don't much care for appearances.. but worth noting.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...TN0VDNIQzNNeDA

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...HAxSFFnRERyZ2s

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...nNlWVF4ZEIxbWs

So the ultimate question is.... New sh!t? or fix what I have?

All of this is rather depressing. Insurance did not pay out anything pertaining to bike repairs or anything of that nature. Thanks guys!
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Old June 9th, 2017, 11:37 AM   #2
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2 realistic options imho...

1. drop engine and find replacement engine, fix required items to ride (bars, levers, rearsets, ect..) just be ok with the scratches/scuffs on fairings

2. Part out... and move on

Sorry man, wish it was better news.
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Old June 9th, 2017, 12:11 PM   #3
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I don't have experience with these engine cases in particular, but often/usually the two halves are bored as a pair, and it won't necessarily work to change just one of them.
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Old June 10th, 2017, 03:04 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
2 realistic options imho...

1. drop engine and find replacement engine, fix required items to ride (bars, levers, rearsets, ect..) just be ok with the scratches/scuffs on fairings

2. Part out... and move on

Sorry man, wish it was better news.
I hear ya. I've been searching CL for a parts bike or used engine with no luck. Finding something on ebay probably won't work due to shipping cost to hawaii.

New engine is definitely easier than trying to get new cases and swapping all the internals over. If I did the latter, I'd probably be too tempted to try and overbore it and replace the pistons because they are pretty worn at 35k miles of abuse. All of that would add to the cost.. more gaskets, new seals.. it would get expensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
I don't have experience with these engine cases in particular, but often/usually the two halves are bored as a pair, and it won't necessarily work to change just one of them.
This is exactly the type of info that I need to make an educated and reasonable decision.

Dangit, I've had a lot of positive memories from this machine.

Then again... greener pastures await. Power to weight ratio..

09 ninja 250r.
-39hp (more like 43, after all I've done to it)
-375lb

09-12 cbr6
-98hp
-410lb

13-17 cbr6
-100hp
-417lb

06-16 yam r6
-124hp
-417lb

Someone effectively summed up the power of the ninja 250r once. Some random character at a gas station.. "Ninja 250? My wife has one of those.. *right wrist gesture* Hold it wide open.. and wait!"
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Old June 10th, 2017, 04:12 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by corksil View Post
09 ninja 250r.
-39hp
-375lb




try 24. Red is stock.
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Old June 10th, 2017, 04:56 PM   #6
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iirc corksil has done some heavy modification to his bike, including boring it up bigger.
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Old June 10th, 2017, 05:12 PM   #7
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The only internal work was race cams and fresh piston rings. It also took about 6 hours to port and polish the head by hand but I never did bore it out.

For some reason I was remembering the 250r to make 39.4bhp, stock. I guess I was mis-remembering.

Anyways, thanks guys. It's good to feel like I'm finally getting back to my old tricks [2+ months] after the accident.
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Old June 10th, 2017, 05:33 PM   #8
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iirc corksil has done some heavy modification to his bike, including boring it up bigger.
It's not going to get that much extra power. A well jetted factory engine with bolt-ons is somewhere in the 31 range.

I could see maybe 34-ish. IIRC, that's about the right range.

39+ hp is a tuned stock 300 engine with intake and exhaust.
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Old June 10th, 2017, 06:08 PM   #9
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Interesting to know. I never looked into performance mods.
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Old June 12th, 2017, 05:26 PM   #10
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Dang this is kind of depressing. If I part out the bike, I'll inevitably be left with 'most' of a motorcycle, which I'll be throwing in a dumpster.

That's gonna feel like a child throwing away his favorite stuffed animal.

Or a guy shooting his horse because it has become sick and will not heal.

Or saying good bye to a family member with a terminal condition for the last time.

This is gonna be rough. That bike was my therapist. I guess it taught me a final lesson and sacrificed itself in the process.

I know that it's just a machine, but damn. I do love that bike.
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Old June 13th, 2017, 07:26 PM   #11
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You love this bike and you'll be sad when you get rid of it.


...until you ride the next one and fall in love with it. Then all is good again.
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Old June 13th, 2017, 08:06 PM   #12
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This is super cheesy and dumb, but I've got a neat idea.

See if you can recycle the remaining metal parts at a metal recycling place. Take a bit of relief in knowing your bike's ashes are, in a way, being scattered. Then, from the few bucks you get from the recycling center, get a nice vinyl decal made as a memorial, and put it on your next bike.
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Old July 30th, 2017, 11:50 AM   #13
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Well then. The thread continues. Here I am, 45 days later.

I found a parts bike. Salvage title, back tax, never registered etc. 14k on the odometer, hasn't run in years. I could ship it over here from the other island, then build a conglomeration of my wrecked 09 and the 2011 parts bike. Also found a set of fairings sans side fairings, which are priced to sell.

Dangit, all of this came along at a bad time. I'm up to my ears in projects. Can't really take on any more right now, but these bikes don't pop up for sale very often. Especially in such a sad condition such as the parts bike I found.

What to do... what to do..
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Old July 30th, 2017, 12:35 PM   #14
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Winter is coming, so when there's a foot of snow on the ground and you can't ride anyway, you can be inside working on the project. No, wait....

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Old August 5th, 2017, 11:05 AM   #15
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Well then. The struggle continues.

I don't want the powers at be to send ill-will my way, but it seems that the parts bike will soon be paid for and then loaded into a truck, driven to a shop, packed on a pallet, loaded onto a ship, and sailing in my direction.

Now that I'll have a spare upper cylinder, I suppose that boring/sleeving isn't out of the question... on a long enough time line from now. I doubt anyone wants to make a stroker crank out of a ninja 250 crank. That would more or less be the same as a ninja 300 crank.

I guess now I'm looking for a 300 crank again. Prices were too high a few years ago to make the project viable, but maybe that has changed by now. Off to ebay I go.
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Old August 12th, 2017, 11:20 PM   #16
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Should be here in the next few days.
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Old August 13th, 2017, 12:26 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corksil View Post
Hey I'm trying to figure out if this bike is too far gone or if it's salvageable and repairable.

First up, this may indicate a bent crankshaft. If that's the case, I don't see this bike ever running again. On the other hand, it could simply be a bent clutch basket. It went down pretty dang hard.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...FNrZFQybGRZcTg

Now for the pictures. Definitely some damage to the clutch basket. ~200 on ebay
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...Ud4TVNrZ1JMLUU

Clutch cover will obviously need replacement.. ~50 on ebay
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...E8wcDh5SHdtWjg

Top half of engine case needs replacement.. ~30 on ebay, plus about ten hours of labor.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...GRDcTNFME1iUzg

I think the clutch cable is alright but the left handlebar is definitely bent. May be able to straighten it with a torch..
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...mtpX3BHQ2FjZ0E

Right side footpeg bracket will be needed.. ~30 on ebay.. Will also need intermediate section of Area-P high mount race exhaust but that probably will be under 50 delivered.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...2pDUE5hMTlnVU0

Left side footpeg also needed ~30 on ebay. And the mounting tabs on the frame are also bent.. not sure if they can be straightened.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...XBJbktDTEhER2M

Doesn't look like this will last very long..
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...kZDaDItZVc4LWc

Not to mention the cosmetics. The fairings are trashed. That doesn't really bother me as I don't much care for appearances.. but worth noting.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...TN0VDNIQzNNeDA

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...HAxSFFnRERyZ2s

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...nNlWVF4ZEIxbWs

So the ultimate question is.... New sh!t? or fix what I have?

All of this is rather depressing. Insurance did not pay out anything pertaining to bike repairs or anything of that nature. Thanks guys!
I revived a basket case Triumph Bonneville once. This bike has so much wrong with it it will cost you what a replacement would cost you and it's going to be a-lot less work.

I, personally, wouldn't touch it with a fork. Move on.

Bill
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Old August 13th, 2017, 12:58 AM   #18
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I agree with Bill, maybe a little late as the parts bike is already on its way.

I do love the Frankenstein stitching repair job!!! Very innovative and resourceful!


Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; August 14th, 2017 at 08:42 PM.
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Old August 14th, 2017, 06:37 PM   #19
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Yeah well. Advice may have been a little late.

Parts bike should be here wednesday. For a few hundred, the price was doable.

It hasn't run in about 2 years, and was up to 14k miles when parked. It sat in a covered parking garage for quite a while.. I also found a new set of fairings and was able to coordinate them onto the same shipping pallet as the bike with about 10 calls and 300 text messages.

Basically I've got everything I'll need to get some conglomeration of parts together from each bike and build a single unit. I don't know what I'm gonna do yet. I'll figure it out once I have both bikes sitting next to eachother.

The race cams should go into the finished machine but that's extra work if the donor engine is already running. However if I swap the cams and the cylinder head that I HAND PORTED, I wouldn't have to do the valves, and could retain the APE tensioner cam chain tensioner in the process.

I'll need a new intermediate section of exhaust pipe from area-p, because mine is mangled but the muffler and rest of the system is already heat-wrapped and usable. That would be a simple swap.

I'll also end up with a spare barrel/cylinder, which I could have bored if I saw fit. Wouldn't want to go 4mm oversize due to the cylinder wall thickness and potential of sleeve cracking. 2mm oversize could work.. but then I'd need pistons to the tune of 200. And I'm still looking for a 300 crank... where the hell am I going to find a 2012+ ninja 300 crankshaft?

Decisions decisions... I won't make any until I can stare at both bikes next to each other and have an epiphany. Hopefully that happens soon after the parts bike arrives because I don't have much space in the shop and have lots of other projects.

I guess my main decision is whether I'm going to re-build the 2002 CRV that I have in need of a head gasket, or build a bike out of all these parts. The CRV is more practical in terms of transportation, but the bike would be more psychologically satisfying.

My PCL remains 100% torn, and my right knee is more or less blown. It won't get any worse as long as I keep it in a brace but I'm not keen on surgery. Fixing these bikes is psychologically tied to my physical health in a strange way...

Anyways I'll try to take some pictures.

....and the street legal CR500AF sits and waits. Ho hum. Too much to do and no time for any of it.
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Old August 14th, 2017, 06:38 PM   #20
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I do love the Frankenstein stitching repair job!!! Very innovative and resourceful!

Yeah dude that's what my freakin shin looks like. It's a gnarly scar.

Buy it, build it, race it, crash it, repeat.
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Old August 14th, 2017, 06:59 PM   #21
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Just got off the phone with a character who mumbled in the ballpark of 150 for an overbore.

4mm overbore has me nervous. I've read a few reports of cylinders cracking.

2mm overbore would net me a tiny bit more displacement but not much. Adding a 300 crank would stroke this motor a little longer but I haven't done the math. I think it was somewhere around 344cc instead of the original 250cc.

I priced all this out a long time ago and some prices may have come down by now but it's a chore to go through it all again. Can anyone get inside deals on weisco pistons? I don't want to pay retail...
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Old August 14th, 2017, 07:18 PM   #22
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Does Wössner make pistons for our 250s? They make really nice pistons for the Kaw triples.
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Old August 14th, 2017, 09:21 PM   #23
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'02 CR-V - a good machine. We've got one of those, too. The guy at the car wash the other day looked enviously at it.

Hoping your bike build goes well.
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Old August 14th, 2017, 09:40 PM   #24
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Does Wössner make pistons for our 250s? They make really nice pistons for the Kaw triples.
I'm not seeing any listings on their site for the ex250j -- ninja 250r. They don't have any 64mm pistons either.

The search continues..
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Old August 14th, 2017, 09:43 PM   #25
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'02 CR-V - a good machine. We've got one of those, too. The guy at the car wash the other day looked enviously at it.

Hoping your bike build goes well.
Yeah the k24a1 engine was a solid platform for tuner cars. Right after 2002, they switched from the b-series 2.0 to the k-series 2.4. The 2.4 was an upgrade from an engineering standpoint due to the timing chain (instead of belt) and the ball-bearing roller rockers in the valve train.

It's the same engine as the honda element, and the ridgeline -- unless I'm mistaken. The k24 is still in production. Honda also bumped up the power by lowering compression and adding a turbo in the acura MDX/LDX. I could be wrong on the specifics but yeah... nice engine and there are lots of parts available.

The realtime AWD is a nice feature as well.

Okay time to hunt for a crankshaft.
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Old August 15th, 2017, 06:56 PM   #26
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The real-time AWD was a selling point for us, for sure. Wish we could have got leather seats, but that was a nicety vs something we had to have.
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Old August 16th, 2017, 09:53 AM   #27
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You'll need the 300 con rods as well. $170 ea new. I think folks are getting in touch with ebay vendors with complete engines and making a deal for just the crank and rods as you will see a few sets of engine parts missing just those items.
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Old August 17th, 2017, 10:57 AM   #28
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You'll need the 300 con rods as well. $170 ea new. I think folks are getting in touch with ebay vendors with complete engines and making a deal for just the crank and rods as you will see a few sets of engine parts missing just those items.
Didn't the 300s also have larger valves than the 250s?
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Old August 17th, 2017, 03:28 PM   #29
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Didn't the 300s also have larger valves than the 250s?
Yep. I think its just the intake valve. +1mm if I remember right.
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Old August 18th, 2017, 11:40 AM   #30
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Well that's not much. Not enough to justify the cost, in my opinion.

Woohoo! Off to the docks I go, to pick up the parts bike!

I should post a few pictures..
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Old August 26th, 2017, 04:38 PM   #31
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After talking to a few folks, I've learned quite a lot.

The 4mm overbore is out of the question. Having that much additional piston weight puts too much stress on the rods and the bottom end. Seems like that's the continual point of failure with a 4mm overbore. Rod failure at high RPM or the sleeve cracking due to lack of material between the two cylinders. I don't have the money to throw at replacing all that stuff, nor the time.

So then... 2mm overbore is the way to go. Pistons should be sent to whoever is doing the overbore, so they can be properly matched.

After a bit of time, I swapped over my ported head, exhaust, carbs w/filter, front forks including wheel, tire, brake rotor/MC etc, rear tire, sprockets, gearing... Basically all the good stuff went onto one bike. Now it's running perfectly, and I've got a line on some MR12 race gas. I'll need to order some bigger jets because I've got a dynojet 110 in there and I don't think I have any bigger sizes.

Also need to figure out how to fix the mangled pipe. The section I need is no longer available from the seller so I'll probably have to drill some holes and use a torch and some punches to get the thing straightened out.

The struggle continues!
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Wrecked bike need repair advice. Rugby Winger !%@*#$%!)@#&!%@ I crashed! 4 June 24th, 2013 04:03 PM
2008 250: To repair or part out? Baddog General Motorcycling Discussion 13 August 20th, 2012 05:01 PM
08' Ninja 250 Parts bike part out *you name the part and price* BuckyNaked Motorcycle-related 106 July 12th, 2011 02:01 PM
pix of my bike + repair ?'s Godzilla35 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Farkles 20 October 5th, 2010 01:07 PM


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