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Old December 24th, 2011, 11:51 AM   #1
09xxxr
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Question 500 or 650 motor swap???

ok so i know i have lots of plans 4 my bike and need 2 get started but im thinking on doing something completely different, with a different bike (still 250r) and just do the basics to my bike and just keep it and everyday rider and do my crazy mods to the project bike....

But back to my main topic, i am looking into getting a 250 frame with clear title, and either put the 500 or 650 motor in it, i know sportsi put in the 500 so its possible, but im thinking on the 650 for the fact of efi, becasuse i would like top make a complete custom stunt/everyday rider ( and when i say complete custom i mean exactly that) and efi for a stuntere is much better, i know i could get an efi conversion for the 500 and probably would for the stunter thing.

im not worried about body work fitment as i will be getting a faring set from tyga performance for the older 250 and mod it to fit the bike when done, but main plan is 08+ 250r frame, yamaha r6 usd swap, yamaha r6 swingarm swap, 500 or 650 motor, custom stunt cage, custom subcage, custom round bar, sprocket set (depending on motor changes set), rear set, rear handbreak clipons, ect.

Big question is ex500 with efi, or slightly smaller (dImension wise) 650 motor with stock efi.

this build will take a while and cost $$$$ and i know that most probily wont agree with what i wanna do to the 250 as alot would b changed, but i really want to break the limit as to what is possible in customizations, everything i want to do is possible especially with my knowledge of fab and mechanical skills, just looking for imput as to what the general people would like to see, and for the other top mechanics, fabricators to chime in and maybe bring up something i may have over looked....

Many thanks in advance, and if your going to bash, trash talk the project please dont post.
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Old December 24th, 2011, 10:55 PM   #2
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It would be less of a headache to buy a "salvaged" R6 at an auction and mod it as a stunt commuter, just my 2 cents mind you, but I think the frame was not designed to take upon such a load and abuse on top of that. I am just thinking how heavy it will be with all the mods, while it would look cool, I don't think it could take the abuse of stunting. Now if this was just a daily rider I say go for it and make a build thread stat.
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Old December 24th, 2011, 11:48 PM   #3
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Do what you want man, alot of people will hate on your idea. It's your bike, if you feel your'e capable of doing the swap then do it.
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Old December 25th, 2011, 11:17 AM   #4
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Sounds like an awesome plan and like you've said... it has been done before so it's not an impossibility.

How much power do you want? The 500cc efi conversion will probably include O2 sensors to make it autotune. The EFI for the 650cc engine I believe is non-tunable. The smaller 650cc engine might be easier to fit into the 250 frame. Always easier to fit smaller things into a large space than it is to fit smaller things into a tight space.

Some photos of your progressive project will be very interesting. Goodluck!
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Old December 25th, 2011, 03:03 PM   #5
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These mods have been done a few times before, and attempted many more times.
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Old December 26th, 2011, 06:58 PM   #6
94fiveohvert
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Go with the 650 fuel injected and take lots of pics. If you were to make a DIY and include measurements for all the brackets, wiring diagrams and whatnot a lot of people would be appreciative. I'd be willing to bet that if you made a bracket kit It would sell.
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Old December 27th, 2011, 12:04 AM   #7
setasai
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While we're on the topic... could a 250 frame support the torque from a 650cc engine? Given that all brackets are well made and fit perfectly.

The other side of things... a 650R looks soooooooooo much like the 250R that I wonder if it would be worth it and if it was worth it, I bet by looking at the 650R frame, you'd get tons of ideas for brackets.
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Old December 27th, 2011, 05:34 AM   #8
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I don't think the torque is the issue. As a stunt bike this will be a bit soft in the area where the seat and tank meet. Slamming the front end down to hard will bend the soft steel frame.
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Old January 5th, 2012, 02:14 PM   #9
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i intend to do a bit of frame work to componsate for that but at the same time that is the advantage to swapping in the usd forks from the r6 for adjustability so that the frame will be able to take the abuse of a hard hit coming back down.
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Old January 5th, 2012, 10:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 09xxxr View Post
i intend to do a bit of frame work to componsate for that but at the same time that is the advantage to swapping in the usd forks from the r6 for adjustability so that the frame will be able to take the abuse of a hard hit coming back down.
I like where this is going, seems you have really thought this through. Any idea as to when you will start construction?
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Old January 7th, 2012, 12:11 PM   #11
09xxxr
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my finace says i have to finish paying off my financing on my 09 250 first so that i can take what would be the payment an buy parts, so prolly mid to end of summer unless i can get her to let me do it earlyer, ive been makeing bigger payment to have it done faster but i was recently laid off so i had to cut back on spending, btu i should b back to work soon so i can build my crazy machine, just as i belive i will be using the 650 and have to manipulate the oil pick up on the simi-dry sump to make it possible as a stunter and not starve for oil, and find a way to tune the 650 fuel injection as im pretty sure its not tuneable, but ill make it work..
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Old January 7th, 2012, 01:17 PM   #12
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if you want to build a bike, the ninja 250 frame is probably the worst you could pick. steal is heavy, hard to machine, and rusts like hell. its an engine supported top diamond frame which means its not stiff at all and flops all around and will bend from setting down wheelies or jumping it. not to mention its a one-piece instead of having a detachable seat frame.

if you want to build a bike, start with a good foundation. get a b12 frame or something thats easy to work with


heres a good example of what can be done with a b12:
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Old January 8th, 2012, 03:27 PM   #13
09xxxr
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i know that the frame is not best suited for what i want to do or a very good frame period, but at the same time i want to see what all i can do to the ninja 250, a b12 is a better place to start but its not what i want to do, i will be dealing with frame support/breacing ect. to componsate for these problems. as well as when this build is complete the bikes total weight would be no more than 50lbs extra due to excess weight in the motor (aprox 30lbs) and usd set up (10-15 lbs) but the swing arm is lighter than stock 250 the extra weight is frame braceing, stunt cage, and round bar. frame will be powder coated once engine is mounted and braced.
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Old January 13th, 2012, 08:15 AM   #14
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Have you considered a two stroke power plant ? More power to weight .
Are you trying to stick with a kawa power plant or any 600 that you can fit and function ? What swing arm swap are you considering . I've seen a few on the Asian forums and I am curious what u think will suit your purpose ?
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Old January 13th, 2012, 09:16 AM   #15
09xxxr
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I am trying to keep it as much of a Kawi as possible, and I got the leg swap info from the Asian forums the best to use is the aprila rs 250 but another good one to use is the yamaha r6 -08 usd and swing arm and they r much easier to get so I will be using those, and after serious thought I believe I will use the ex500 they r more redily avalibe
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Old March 26th, 2012, 08:29 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 09xxxr View Post
I am trying to keep it as much of a Kawi as possible, and I got the leg swap info from the Asian forums the best to use is the aprila rs 250 but another good one to use is the yamaha r6 -08 usd and swing arm and they r much easier to get so I will be using those, and after serious thought I believe I will use the ex500 they r more redily avalibe
Does the 08 R6 swingarm have bracing? If so it will probably mess up chain alignment.

I know because I have tried both an 00 R6 swingarm and 01 gsxr 750 swingarm on my ex500 and both of the swinger's bracing interfered with the chain alignment.

Ended up going with the non-braced 01 gsxr600 swinger and the 00 r6 wheel, still have to machine down the sprocket hub but chain alignment will be perfect.

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Old March 26th, 2012, 09:02 AM   #17
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yea ninja frame blows ... i would get salvage R6 frame and pop a 650cc engine in... that would be a ****ing blast
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