DIY: Another Hardlocking Saddlebags w/ Quicklock - Page 2

setasai · August 24th, 2011, 12:14 PM

Hey NathanF, If i could ask you, what kind of welding setup do you have? I'm looking to get into welding at some point as well but have no idea where to start.

NathanF · August 24th, 2011, 08:25 PM

I bought a Pro Mig 140 from Lowes with a 10 percent off coupon. (You can get the coupon from the Post Office for free in a movers packet.) Came to be something like $470. It's one step above the cheaper Lincoln Handy Mig that is half as powerful (70 amps compared to 140) and costs around $300-350, and significantly better than the cheapo Harbor Freight welders.

Also bought a tank of Argon/CO2 that was $120 at AirGas. (A smaller tank is also available for $85 or so filled.) You don't need shield gas since this welder can do flux core wire that has it built in, but you get much prettier, cleaner welds with it.

The stand is Harbor Freight, as is the $40-50 auto darkening welding helmet which has been working wonderfully. Also got some welding gloves for $10, and leather apron.

NathanF · August 24th, 2011, 08:29 PM

OK, so my next question for you. How close can you mount the case to the exhaust before it starts cooking?

I want it as close as possible to minimize the height. Is this too close? (half an inch or so)

setasai · August 24th, 2011, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NathanF

OK, so my next question for you. How close can you mount the case to the exhaust before it starts cooking?

I want it as close as possible to minimize the height. Is this too close? (half an inch or so)

Cool, thanks for the info the on the welder. 1/2 inch is fine. I've got mine pretty damn close and it's been fine so far. Not even the slightest bit warm. I think it's because the pipe in the exhaust is actually tapered downwards just enough that the hot air blows right past the case. Also, at speed, air blows between the space and keeps most of the heat away from it. For more reassurance, I did some research on if anybody at all has reported melting plastic from exhaust cans and I've come up with zero reports.

NathanF · August 25th, 2011, 02:06 PM

That sounds reasonable to me.

I was just thinking about welding them up once and for all, but I realized that if I go the rubber route it will change the height a little bit. So I have to decide now before I weld it up if I should put rubber in between like yours.

Do you think it's worth doing? If so, where did you get your rubber? I was thinking I could cut some from those flexible drain pipe fittings you see at Home Depot, though that stuff is probably harder than what you have.

setasai · August 25th, 2011, 02:24 PM

Our minds think alike. That is actually exactly what it is. Drain pipe rubber. I had some lying around the house so I used it. Honestly, i'm not sure it's necessary but I feel better knowing that there is some give in the mount. Especially since it's all connected directly to the frame. It also provides some form of height adjustment. I can tighten it to raise the whole mount or if it's too high, I can swap it out for a couple washers.

At the time all I wanted was as much adjustability as possible since it's a DIY, it would suck if i messed up and needed to trim things or shim things. Metal isnt the easiest thing to work with for someone like me that doesnt have very many tools.

NathanF · August 25th, 2011, 06:45 PM

Funny! I'm glad you didn't say great minds think alike, since my usual response to that is that fools seldom differ.

Just got the rubber from Lowes, and now I need to go back to get longer bolts. It's only my 15th trip today, so no worries.

Speaking of which, I was pretty precise with my drilling for the two 5/16" bolts that mount the cross bar to the bike. That being the case, my bar when loosely attached can hardly rock at all. Did you enlarge your holes to allow some movement w/the rubber, or are yours exactly 5/16ths as well?

Just wondering if the rubber will do much without some freedom to move...then again, I haven't put it all together yet and given it a shake.

setasai · August 25th, 2011, 07:28 PM

You got lucky in being able to be precise with the holes. My holes were a little larger because the lack of a drill press has caused the holes on the trapazoidal piece to be off center. As a result the extra space in the crossbar allowed me that extra wiggle room.

Honest to god, I havent the slightest clue if the rubber will do anything. I put them on because it makes me feel better. You can try it without and see what happens. We're kinda venturing into uncharted territory so try it and see what happens.

NathanF · August 28th, 2011, 02:23 AM

Yah, drilling metal is pain. I don't have a drill press either, so I did it all by hand. Here is what I have learned from making mistakes in the past:

1) Always use a punch to keep the bit from wandering. These work wonderfully, since they can be used as a regular punch, or a transfer punch if you need to drill a hole to match perfectly with an existing hole.

2) Without a drill press, if you need to go through square tube, it's better to measure and do separate holes from each side.

3) Digital calipers are your friend. I use these.

Anyway, I got the main bracket all welded, and the paint is drying now. It ended up being too far to the right by maybe 1/4 inch. I made the holes bigger to compensate, which will also allow for the rubber to actually do its job.

I am 100 percent sure the cross bar is a good idea. When I put this whole thing on and rocked it, I could see the frame of the motorcycle rock, with each tube twisting up and down. A cross bar should fix that, and I'm going to try to do it using a coupler nut. The more I think about it, the less I want to permanently drill anything in my bike.

By the way, have you thought about what this mount will do in a drop or crash? I have a sneaking suspicion it might make tweaking the frame super easy. Almost makes me want to ditch my grade 12.9 bolts for cheapo ones. I'd much rather them snap than the frame get bent...

setasai · August 28th, 2011, 11:09 AM

Wow looks good. I told you about the bolt holes and mounting the cross piece and cut to fit. It's just super difficult when you're putting all these things together.

I have thought about what would happen in a crash and that was my reasoning for using aluminum. FYI, with my aluminum setup, I filled both sidecases with water (21L each but not filled to the max so estimated 18L --> 18kg each --> x2 --> 36kg approx --> x2.2lbs --> greater than 72lbs total) and there was only a little sagging of the aluminum cross bar but it felt stable. That was good enough justification that the mounts are strong enough.

As for tweaking the frame, I dont think the sideways forces are going to have anywhere else to go but twist the frame no matter what you used. Moral of the story, just mount it and hope for the best. There's no real engineering basis for our mounts. Just trial and error. Lets hope none of us need to test crash forces.

NathanF · August 28th, 2011, 11:51 PM

You're right, it is difficult, and really hard to get perfect. I did exactly like you said with the bolt holes, but it still ended up slightly off. Making the holes bigger on the horizontal bar fixed that perfectly though.

I also suspect you're right about the sideways forces. This kind of mount will hurt your frame. But that's just more encouragement not to crash or drop the bike.

But if you do, it's a cheap bike anyway, so it would probably be totaled anyway.

Anyway, I'm all done and posted! Take a look: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...744#post357744

setasai · September 30th, 2011, 04:52 PM

Ater much deliberation, NathanF and I have finally figured out a solution.

Two problems needed to be solved. 1) exhaust heat from muffler itself and 2) exhaust gases grazing the bottom of the sidecase

1) exhaust heat - solved by using some heatshield foil that reflects radiant heat.

2) exhaust gases - solved by adding some kind of turn down tip to deflect the gas.

What I did was use a 90deg elbow from a 1inch steel conduit line found at home depot for ~$4. Cut a piece of it at an angle that I liked then cut some 1/4inch tabs to bend out as securing tabs.

Definitely keeps the bags cool and doesnt really impede flow in anyway since the pipe is slightly bigger than the exhaust pipes anyways. After testing it out, I used a dremel to remove all of the galvanized coating and then smoothed it out with sandpaper and steel wool. Once that was all taken care of, it was painted with Rustoleum High Heat matte black paint.

I think it looks nice. I quite like how it turned out. Goodluck to anybody else attempting a similar task to our ninja's. Sidecases from what I can tell are now a complete project.

bob706 · November 18th, 2011, 09:55 AM

Just finished my copy of this set up last night. Now I know why a purpose built luggage system cost what they do! But this set up is awesome and well worth the time, money and blood.

setasai · November 18th, 2011, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob706

Just finished my copy of this set up last night. Now I know why a purpose built luggage system cost what they do! But this set up is awesome and well worth the time, money and blood.

I'm glad! Photos please. I'd like to see how it turned out and what you used.

bob706 · November 19th, 2011, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by setasai

I'm glad! Photos please. I'd like to see how it turned out and what you used.

Turned out the same as yours pretty much. Only not as good looking

. I kinda went overboard on using bolts. I rode with the bags today and did not have one problem. Got some good compliments and some folks asked if it was a kit. Just got finished priming and painting. Tomorrow I'm gonna try to spray on some plasti-dip and see how that goes. Great idea and design Brian

setasai · November 19th, 2011, 11:24 PM

Cool! Thanks! That makes 4 of us with Sidecases on a newgen 250 that I know about. Enjoy them. They totally rock!

November 18th, 2011, 09:55 AM	#53
bob706 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Sean Location: Mary Esther, FL Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 1998 HD Road King Posts: A lot.	Just finished my copy of this set up last night. Now I know why a purpose built luggage system cost what they do! But this set up is awesome and well worth the time, money and blood. __________________________________________________ http://sandollarmotorcycleclub.com/

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August 24th, 2011, 12:14 PM	#41
setasai ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Brian Location: Detroit, MI Join Date: Jun 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green Posts: A lot.	Hey NathanF, If i could ask you, what kind of welding setup do you have? I'm looking to get into welding at some point as well but have no idea where to start.

August 24th, 2011, 08:25 PM	#42
NathanF ninjette.org member Name: Nathan Location: Portland, Oregon Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 V-Strom 650 ABS Posts: 166	I bought a Pro Mig 140 from Lowes with a 10 percent off coupon. (You can get the coupon from the Post Office for free in a movers packet.) Came to be something like $470. It's one step above the cheaper Lincoln Handy Mig that is half as powerful (70 amps compared to 140) and costs around $300-350, and significantly better than the cheapo Harbor Freight welders. Also bought a tank of Argon/CO2 that was $120 at AirGas. (A smaller tank is also available for $85 or so filled.) You don't need shield gas since this welder can do flux core wire that has it built in, but you get much prettier, cleaner welds with it. The stand is Harbor Freight, as is the $40-50 auto darkening welding helmet which has been working wonderfully. Also got some welding gloves for $10, and leather apron.

August 24th, 2011, 08:29 PM	#43
NathanF ninjette.org member Name: Nathan Location: Portland, Oregon Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 V-Strom 650 ABS Posts: 166	OK, so my next question for you. How close can you mount the case to the exhaust before it starts cooking? I want it as close as possible to minimize the height. Is this too close? (half an inch or so)

August 25th, 2011, 02:06 PM	#45
NathanF ninjette.org member Name: Nathan Location: Portland, Oregon Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 V-Strom 650 ABS Posts: 166	That sounds reasonable to me. I was just thinking about welding them up once and for all, but I realized that if I go the rubber route it will change the height a little bit. So I have to decide now before I weld it up if I should put rubber in between like yours. Do you think it's worth doing? If so, where did you get your rubber? I was thinking I could cut some from those flexible drain pipe fittings you see at Home Depot, though that stuff is probably harder than what you have.

August 25th, 2011, 02:24 PM	#46
setasai ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Brian Location: Detroit, MI Join Date: Jun 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green Posts: A lot.	Our minds think alike. That is actually exactly what it is. Drain pipe rubber. I had some lying around the house so I used it. Honestly, i'm not sure it's necessary but I feel better knowing that there is some give in the mount. Especially since it's all connected directly to the frame. It also provides some form of height adjustment. I can tighten it to raise the whole mount or if it's too high, I can swap it out for a couple washers. At the time all I wanted was as much adjustability as possible since it's a DIY, it would suck if i messed up and needed to trim things or shim things. Metal isnt the easiest thing to work with for someone like me that doesnt have very many tools.

August 25th, 2011, 06:45 PM	#47
NathanF ninjette.org member Name: Nathan Location: Portland, Oregon Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 V-Strom 650 ABS Posts: 166	Funny! I'm glad you didn't say great minds think alike, since my usual response to that is that fools seldom differ. Just got the rubber from Lowes, and now I need to go back to get longer bolts. It's only my 15th trip today, so no worries. Speaking of which, I was pretty precise with my drilling for the two 5/16" bolts that mount the cross bar to the bike. That being the case, my bar when loosely attached can hardly rock at all. Did you enlarge your holes to allow some movement w/the rubber, or are yours exactly 5/16ths as well? Just wondering if the rubber will do much without some freedom to move...then again, I haven't put it all together yet and given it a shake.

August 25th, 2011, 07:28 PM	#48
setasai ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Brian Location: Detroit, MI Join Date: Jun 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green Posts: A lot.	You got lucky in being able to be precise with the holes. My holes were a little larger because the lack of a drill press has caused the holes on the trapazoidal piece to be off center. As a result the extra space in the crossbar allowed me that extra wiggle room. Honest to god, I havent the slightest clue if the rubber will do anything. I put them on because it makes me feel better. You can try it without and see what happens. We're kinda venturing into uncharted territory so try it and see what happens.

August 28th, 2011, 02:23 AM	#49
NathanF ninjette.org member Name: Nathan Location: Portland, Oregon Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 V-Strom 650 ABS Posts: 166	Yah, drilling metal is pain. I don't have a drill press either, so I did it all by hand. Here is what I have learned from making mistakes in the past: 1) Always use a punch to keep the bit from wandering. These work wonderfully, since they can be used as a regular punch, or a transfer punch if you need to drill a hole to match perfectly with an existing hole. 2) Without a drill press, if you need to go through square tube, it's better to measure and do separate holes from each side. 3) Digital calipers are your friend. I use these. Anyway, I got the main bracket all welded, and the paint is drying now. It ended up being too far to the right by maybe 1/4 inch. I made the holes bigger to compensate, which will also allow for the rubber to actually do its job. I am 100 percent sure the cross bar is a good idea. When I put this whole thing on and rocked it, I could see the frame of the motorcycle rock, with each tube twisting up and down. A cross bar should fix that, and I'm going to try to do it using a coupler nut. The more I think about it, the less I want to permanently drill anything in my bike. By the way, have you thought about what this mount will do in a drop or crash? I have a sneaking suspicion it might make tweaking the frame super easy. Almost makes me want to ditch my grade 12.9 bolts for cheapo ones. I'd much rather them snap than the frame get bent...

August 28th, 2011, 11:09 AM	#50
setasai ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Brian Location: Detroit, MI Join Date: Jun 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green Posts: A lot.	Wow looks good. I told you about the bolt holes and mounting the cross piece and cut to fit. It's just super difficult when you're putting all these things together. I have thought about what would happen in a crash and that was my reasoning for using aluminum. FYI, with my aluminum setup, I filled both sidecases with water (21L each but not filled to the max so estimated 18L --> 18kg each --> x2 --> 36kg approx --> x2.2lbs --> greater than 72lbs total) and there was only a little sagging of the aluminum cross bar but it felt stable. That was good enough justification that the mounts are strong enough. As for tweaking the frame, I dont think the sideways forces are going to have anywhere else to go but twist the frame no matter what you used. Moral of the story, just mount it and hope for the best. There's no real engineering basis for our mounts. Just trial and error. Lets hope none of us need to test crash forces.

August 28th, 2011, 11:51 PM	#51
NathanF ninjette.org member Name: Nathan Location: Portland, Oregon Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 V-Strom 650 ABS Posts: 166	You're right, it is difficult, and really hard to get perfect. I did exactly like you said with the bolt holes, but it still ended up slightly off. Making the holes bigger on the horizontal bar fixed that perfectly though. I also suspect you're right about the sideways forces. This kind of mount will hurt your frame. But that's just more encouragement not to crash or drop the bike. But if you do, it's a cheap bike anyway, so it would probably be totaled anyway. Anyway, I'm all done and posted! Take a look: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...744#post357744

November 19th, 2011, 11:24 PM	#56
setasai ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Brian Location: Detroit, MI Join Date: Jun 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green Posts: A lot.	Cool! Thanks! That makes 4 of us with Sidecases on a newgen 250 that I know about. Enjoy them. They totally rock!