Engine died yesterday.

[Business810]

I was riding yesterday around 40-45 mph, 4th gear at the time, when suddenly I started losing power and the tone of the engine got noticeably lower. I downshifted and pulled off on the nearest side street, maybe a quarter mile down the road. As I was pulling off, the oil pressure light came on and the motor died.

There was oil both by the crankcase breather hose and the cylinder gasket on the right side, and it lost most of its oil. The engine will crank, but won't turn over (I tried once before realizing how much oil it had lost.)

I brought the bike home in our pickup, and it's in a friend's garage at the moment so I don't have photos yet (it was dark by the time we got it there.) I also plan to pull the plugs and the oil filter to see if there are any shavings or other bad news.

The bike has right around 4750 miles, and I purchased it recently with 4400 miles. I changed the oil to full synthetic when I bought it, and I synched the carbs. I was getting set to do a valve check and adjustment in a week or two, but it was running well prior. It does have a Muzzy exhaust and header, but the previous owner (claimed...) to have had it installed and re-jetted by a shop. I will kick myself if he hadn't actually re-jetted and this happened because it was running lean.

Any ideas what might have happened, or how bad the damage is? Is a rebuild or replacement in order?

[MarcoPolo]

Yikes! Sorry to hear that hopefully its not as bad as it sounds and you can be enjoying that beautiful bike again!

[nickjpass]

Ouch. I hope you didn't get screwed. Keep us updated

[TBC]

Sorry to hear . Posts like these keep reminding me to really do some of that maintenance work I've been putting off...

[EMSRacer07]

yeah def check to see if the spark plug was really white. would show it to be really lean

[Motofool]

Did you only put 350 miles on the bike????

I think that you need to talk to the previous owner about returning your money.

[choneofakind]

Hope you can get this fixed and the bike isn't a dud!

if it is, pm me, I'll buy your muzzy to help you re-coup some of your losses

[Business810]

I'm going to pull the plugs when I go up there to help diagnose the situation. It might be a few days, though. At this point, given the leak at the cylinder base gasket, I think the motor is probably done for. I don't have the time to rebuild the motor.

I do already have a lead on a low-mileage motor less than an hour away from here, if I need it/go that route. (If I do decide to part it out, choneofakind, I'll let you know...)

I am going to have words with the previous owner. It's ridiculous for this to happen with such low miles, though I probably should have done ALL of the routine maintenance before riding rather than spacing it out over a few weeks.

[choneofakind]

Well if the low-mileage motor is the way to go, do it!

Parting out is always the last resort on a bike!!!! they need love

[Skippii]

A bike that's run lean enough to hurt anything also runs so crappily there would not be a question as to whether it had been rejetted.
Posted via Mobile Device

[n4mwd]

Look at the odometer. Are the numbers all even across or staggered? They should be perfectly even. If staggered, its probably been wound back. The problem you describe is more consistent with 47K miles not 4700 miles.

Also, is there any chance this was a salvage bike with parts from multiple bikes and possibly an odometer from a different bike?

Your statement "The engine will crank, but won't turn over" makes no sense. How can it run, but not turn over?

In any event, your experience is very atypical for a Ninja. They just don't go bad that easy. Does the fact that you posted on April 1st have anything to do with it?

[Business810]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Look at the odometer. Are the numbers all even across or staggered? They should be perfectly even. If staggered, its probably been wound back. The problem you describe is more consistent with 47K miles not 4700 miles.

Also, is there any chance this was a salvage bike with parts from multiple bikes and possibly an odometer from a different bike?

It has a clear title, and everything seems to match so a salvage bike doesn't seem likely. I hadn't thought about the odometer being wound back, but that could explain it. I'll take a closer look at the numbers this weekend, but they seemed pretty even. I tried contacting the original seller, and of course he won't return my calls.

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Your statement "The engine will crank, but won't turn over" makes no sense. How can it run, but not turn over?

After adding some oil to the engine and pressing the starter, it cranks but doesn't actually start and run. Just a colloquialism.

Originally Posted by n4mwd

In any event, your experience is very atypical for a Ninja. They just don't go bad that easy. Does the fact that you posted on April 1st have anything to do with it?

No, unfortunately, it's not an April Fools joke. I wish it was.

I think a junkyard motor is in my future. Is $500 local pickup a decent price for a complete, running motor?

[n4mwd]

The price of the engine depends on the mileage. They seem to average about $400 if you pick it up.

If you are mechanically inclined, you might do better just rebuilding it yourself. There are a lot of used parts on ebay and Ronayers.com can help you with the new ones. It could be just as simple as a gasket.

If it happened to me personally, I wouldn't be buying a new engine until I knew for sure what was wrong with the original one.

[zzrguy]

Important stuff in bold, rest is random information lawl
$500 aint baid. I got a second motor for 400 but i also got a tank and all the wiring to the bike. But then again its not low mileage.

My guess is the guy you bought it from didnt have it jetted and the valves are burnt to a crisp. Other than that it might just need a top end rebuild, gaskets,rings, fingers crossed for you. Id rip apart the existing engine before you drop a new one in to see if it just needs a top end rebuild because you can do that for around $250, that is if you know how to do it your self.

The reason my motor died is because i was too stupid to change the coolant.. and it overheated alot and eventually the bearings were gone and everything was worn. When i emptied out the rad the fluid was brown... It was a 2002 im guessing that was 2002 coolant lol.

How much did you pay for the bike? Something this low miles shouldnt die like that unless it wasn't maintained right or the jetting wasnt done. Do you have pods or airbox? If its airbox then the jetting wouldn't matter much compared to having pods.

I payed 1800 for my 250 and it had 5592 miles on it. not to mention it was a bad ass ZZR too!

[n4mwd]

One of the first things you need to do is a compression test. That will tell you a lot in a case like this.

[Felipe the Ant]

Cylinder gasket? You mean head gasket? Sounds like you blew all the oil out of it and it died, maybe you have a warped head now so it can't get enough compression to run. Run a compression test like n4mwd said. How's the cooling system?

[wolfpuss]

replace the spark plugs!!
the same thing happened to my friend. turns out that the previous owner installed champion plugs. both electrodes melted!

change your plugs dude

[Business810]

I appreciate all the suggestions. Other responsibilities in my life have taken over in the last few days, so I haven't been able to play go over to where the bike is stored. When I get a chance, I will definitely pull the plugs to see if they are Champions (hopefully not), what condition they're in, and to run a compression test.

Originally Posted by Felipe the Ant

Cylinder gasket? You mean head gasket? Sounds like you blew all the oil out of it and it died, maybe you have a warped head now so it can't get enough compression to run. Run a compression test like n4mwd said. How's the cooling system?

The oil leak seemed to be at the cylinder base gasket, between the cylinder and the crankcase. The cooling system seemed to be in good order before this - coolant was full, looked clean, and the bike never had heating issues.

[Felipe the Ant]

Oh. Then yeah you could have ******/fouled plugs along with an oil leak. The oil pressure light comes on regardless when the engine stops so you might not have lost pressure beforehand. Now I'm betting ****** plugs or bad mixture, much cheaper

[n4mwd]

Yes, don't assume the worst until you have proof of it. The oil leak could be coincidental. The engine turns over so that is a good sign right there.

The oil light responds to the oil pressure in the engine which is maintained by the oil pump. The engine does not have to be running to maintain pressure - but it does have to be turning. So if you were in gear when it stalled, the light stays off until the bike's speed slows down enough or you pull the clutch.

Keep us posted as to what you find out with the compression and plugs.

[MarcoPolo]

Any luck on that beautiful 2004 yellow ninja? I hear its the most beautiful color/model.

[FrugalNinja250]

Minor clarification on terminology. "Cranks" means the starter engages and the motor crankshaft rotates as it should. "Starts" means the motor runs on its own.

The Ninja odometer can't be altered without leaving significant toolmarks on the metal frame, so it's easy to tell if that's been done. I suspect fraud on these is done by swapping in lower mileage clusters instead.

[TBC]

You put it on craigslist?

Aw man...

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by TBC

You put it on craigslist?

Aw man...

Looks like he did.
http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/mcy/2972659773.html

I still think the previous owner falsified the mileage somehow. That's too much crap to go wrong on a bike with less than 5K miles - maybe at 50K miles.

[ChicagoDawg71]

So I had the same issue the OP had about a month ago. I went through and cleaned all the oil up, cleaned the carbs and airbox. Where I stand now is I can get the bike to start...I have gotten one drop of oil each the past 4 days that I have been able to start the bike. The issue I am having now is the bike will only stay running if I am giving it throttle. It sounds fine and normal. It doesn't sound like a rod or anything is loose. Just every time I let off of the throttle it dies. The past two days there is also a sound like a release of air coming from the Carb area, but only once each day.
Any body got any ideas? Thanks

[DevinWolfe]

That sounds like a vacuum leak to me, but is your idle adjustment screw engaging the plate that it pushes against to keep the engine revved to xxxx RPM?

That really could be any number of things, so I would recommend starting a thread and giving as much information as possible. It could be one cylinder isn't firing/vacuum leak/idle screw/idle fuel mixture/etc...

[n4mwd]

The carbs on a Ninja are a complicated maze of secret passageways. Its easy to miss stuff when cleaning them. Poor idle usually means the pilot jets are not clean. They are hidden down a long narrow tube in the bottom next to the main jets.

The gasping issue could be the diaphragms in the carbs. Gasoline and cleaning fluid will destroy them.

I can't say without actually hearing it, but a vacuum leak is usually a constant hiss or completely silent.

Lastly, its important to narrow down the source of the oil leak. It could be a gasket or maybe someone forgot to reconnect the crankcase breather to the airbox.

[ChicagoDawg71]

I will start a new link after checking on the additional information. I removed and reinstalled the carbs myself, but I had them cleaned at a shop. And they did replace the needles on the carbs, they said they were flat. Thanks again.

[n4mwd]

The needles are part of the main jet system. I have heard of them getting worn, but not flat. If you are having trouble at the low end, its the pilot jet circuit - not the main jet circuit.

[Business810]

First, an apology for not providing an update. A job change and limited time did lead me to sell the bike, and I forgot to update here.

A mechanic purchased it to fix for his girlfriend. I don't have the exact details, but he pulled the engine apart and with the exception of the oil leak and gasket issues, everything internally was in good shape (and seemed consistent with the low miles indicated on the odo according to him). He rebuilt the motor with fresh gaskets and got it running fine.

The even better news: they're moving away and got in touch to see if I had any interest in buying the bike back to make their move easier. The only downside is it has been sitting for a while so it could use a new battery and fresh gas. So, I picked it up last night and hope to be back on the road soon...

[n4mwd]

That's funny. The only problem is whether or not the "mechanic" put it back together properly. If he's not a motorcycle mechanic, then probably not. The fact that he had to disassemble the engine to find out if there was anything wrong with it says that he's not familiar with the Ninja engine.

[Business810]

n4mwd - I am a bit concerned about that. He works at a local motorcycle shop, so I think he is knowledgeable, but I do not know his experience level with this motor. Worst case, I'm back to where I started with a non-running bike, but I'm in a much better position than I was a year ago time-wise to figure it out and learn along the way.

[n4mwd]

If he is used to working on Jap bikes, then he should be OK.

[TBC]

Congrats! Hope you see you back on the road soon.

[Business810]

After recharging the battery and some fresh gas, it started and ran pretty well. I have a new battery on the way, and I plan to clean the carbs since it sat for a little while.

TBC: What part of Pittsburgh are you from? I have been on the road in the meantime, though, since the Ninjette is not my only bike.

[7oxSin]

Originally Posted by MarcoPolo

Any luck on that beautiful 2004 yellow ninja? I hear its the most beautiful color/model.

eww really? i think it is the worst color on ninjas. right next to the purple rims on the red models. when i got mine it was devils piss yellow, i painted it asap! didnt like the headaches every time i looked at it.

[alex.s]

lupe, i'll excuse your insolence because you're from a great state. that being said yellow is the best color.

[TBC]

Originally Posted by Business810

TBC: What part of Pittsburgh are you from? I have been on the road in the meantime, though, since the Ninjette is not my only bike.

Living in Oakland and going to college.

[Business810]

Originally Posted by TBC

Living in Oakland and going to college.

It's a small town. I work in Oakland, so I'll keep an eye out.