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Old December 22nd, 2021, 05:32 PM   #1
CaliGrrl
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Electrical gremlins?

Went to ride the other day, bike started normally, got gas, and now the electrics are dead. Went home to get the trailer, dash lights up now, but when I touch the starter the lights on the dash go out and she's dead again.

What's the most likely place to start tracking gremlins? Ignition vs starter vs something else that cuts power when starting?
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Old December 22nd, 2021, 05:51 PM   #2
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Old December 22nd, 2021, 08:22 PM   #3
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Does starter spin engine slowly? Or does it just click?
Battery most likely culprit. Confirm with some measurements:

1. battery voltage beforehand, everything off

2. battery voltage as you're pushing start button

Might also want to check fluid-level in battery if it's not AGM type. Many "sealed" batteries just have cover over caps to each cell.
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Old December 23rd, 2021, 04:24 AM   #4
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yes sounds like the battery isn't being charged. From the initial start on you were running on the battery and when you got gas the battery was already drained......
that has happened to me before ! but not on the Ninja.
check your fuzes and battery !
you probably lost the voltage regulator.... or just a fuze....we could hope right ?
.... good luck Cali !!!!
i'm rooting fer ya ! you can do it !
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Old December 23rd, 2021, 07:33 AM   #5
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When the exact same thing happened to me last summer it wound up being a fried stator, which in turn fizzled out the regulator and the battery. The battery is the first (and easiest) to check; once that's good you can check the stator and regulator.
None of that is particularly cheap, but very worth it. Your bike looks mint, and will be good to go once you address the charging system.
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Old December 23rd, 2021, 09:26 PM   #6
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Hmmm... doesn't feel like battery. I've had low battery stuff happen, with cars and the bike, this is "good to go, dash lights on," then nada at all. Normally the dash lights dim when the starter cranks.... this is nothing. PrettyBike lit up after sitting a minute, then when I touched the starter.... dead. Nothing. No lights, no crank, no tail lights, no parking light.

Need to check voltages but it's raining today.
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Old December 23rd, 2021, 11:35 PM   #7
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sounds like corrosion between the battery hookup and the battery then....
my lawn tractor does that all the time great power then hit the starter and the battery cable sparks and nothing... I wiggle it and then it works.... I have to clean it at least once a year..then it works fine for about 6 months
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Old December 24th, 2021, 05:43 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliGrrl View Post
Hmmm... doesn't feel like battery. I've had low battery stuff happen, with cars and the bike, this is "good to go, dash lights on," then nada at all. Normally the dash lights dim when the starter cranks.... this is nothing. PrettyBike lit up after sitting a minute, then when I touched the starter.... dead. Nothing. No lights, no crank, no tail lights, no parking light.

Need to check voltages but it's raining today.
When you get out the meter, put the probes on the actual battery terminals. If the battery voltage doesn't drop excessively when you push the starter button, put the meter probes on the battery cable ends and try again.
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Old December 25th, 2021, 05:23 PM   #9
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Thanks, I'll try that. It's cold and ick here so I'm not inclined to leave the house for much and we have some travel coming up... but it at least gives me something to try.
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Old December 26th, 2021, 12:52 AM   #10
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what is not uncommon at all is corrosion build up on the terminals that connect to the battery and the battery posts themselves.... and you can get really strange symptoms from that anything from turning on the key and you get no power to anything to turn on the key and every thing looks normal then hit the starter and all power goes out.... or even try to start it and the sylinoid just clicks but you still have power to the dash lights.... yet the battery is perfectly fine... it's just the connections to it.
they make a goo/cream or paste you can put on the terminals and posts of the battery to stop all corrosion I have a tube of that in my tool box it's red but it works great as long as it's on there there will be no corrosion !
....
Now if the terminals are heavily corroded and you have crimp on connectors
too you got problems because you can't get the corrosion out of the connection
without taking off the connecter . if that's the case it's best to cut the old connectors off strip the wire and apply some of the corrosion protection paste i was talking about ( pick it up at any automotive parts place) and then crimp or solder on a new connection.....
a word of warning the red stuff I got is the worst die I have ever seen it gets onto everything turns your fingers dark red and will not come off !
it has to wear off !
...
but that's the scoop on that
anything with a battery can suffer from corrosion at the battery terminals
if there is no sign of a white fungus looking stuff on the terminals then it's probably a crimp on connector that has come loose
battery terminals REALLY should be soldered !!!!
.....
Solder first put on the goop after !
...
Hope that helps !
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Old December 26th, 2021, 06:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
When you get out the meter, put the probes on the actual battery terminals. If the battery voltage doesn't drop excessively when you push the starter button, put the meter probes on the battery cable ends and try again.
I agree it could be the battery has a dead short under load and unable to push any amp to the starter
Use some jumper cable and car battery

Here what you should do clean battery post and battery cable lugs with a small wire brush
Check water level unless your have a sealed battery in most case you can check the battery date code the avg life span is about 3/4 years for AGM, Flooded Lead-Acid SLE/EFB and GEL
If have battery charger, then charge it first
The voltage need be above 12.4 voltage minimum when you hit the starter button it should not drop about 10volt if dose then battery need to be replaced.
As rule to keeping the strong and healthy battery you put Float Charger or Trickle Charger on it unless you ride a lot and not let sit for month or min months on end.
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Old December 26th, 2021, 09:43 AM   #12
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What Jim is referring to is checking to see if the cables are at fault I believe....
not the battery.... batteries hardly ever develop an internal short now days
repeated fast charging will remove the sulfate in most cases and the battery will act like new.... just don't let the battery get too hot !
....
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Old December 27th, 2021, 11:38 AM   #13
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Battery checks out, at rest is 12 point something; it's old but at least on first check it's good. Next step, at the fuse box; it gets power, but nothing draws power from it. Turn key on, lights come on this time, and power is leaving the fuse box.

Husband thinks it's the ignition switch or a connector. So that's what we're going to look at next. I'll check the battery connections but they don't seem to have corrosion on them.
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Old December 27th, 2021, 11:46 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliGrrl View Post
Battery checks out, at rest is 12 point something; it's old but at least on first check it's good. Next step, at the fuse box; it gets power, but nothing draws power from it. Turn key on, lights come on this time, and power is leaving the fuse box.

Husband thinks it's the ignition switch or a connector. So that's what we're going to look at next. I'll check the battery connections but they don't seem to have corrosion on them.
A bad battery can easily read 12v at rest. What does yours read when you hit the start button, measured on the battery terminals themselves and at the battery cable ends, as I posted above?

Last futzed with by Triple Jim; December 27th, 2021 at 01:18 PM.
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Old December 27th, 2021, 03:56 PM   #15
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Does starter spin engine slowly? Or does it just click?
Battery most likely culprit. Confirm with some measurements:

1. battery voltage beforehand, everything off

2. battery voltage as you're pushing start button

Might also want to check fluid-level in battery if it's not AGM type. Many "sealed" batteries just have cover over caps to each cell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
When you get out the meter, put the probes on the actual battery terminals. If the battery voltage doesn't drop excessively when you push the starter button, put the meter probes on the battery cable ends and try again.
Critical test is battery voltage when you press start button. That one number will tell you everything you need to solve problem.
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Old December 27th, 2021, 04:49 PM   #16
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above aka a "load test" revealing the meat and potatoes of battery status under actual working condition.
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Old December 27th, 2021, 08:16 PM   #17
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Haven't tested the load under starter drain yet. The last time I touched the starter, it killed all power to everything.
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Old December 27th, 2021, 08:40 PM   #18
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Haven't tested the load under starter drain yet. The last time I touched the starter, it killed all power to everything.
That's the point of the test. It's very common for a bad battery to have 12v at its terminals, but immediately fall to zero when a substantial load is put on it. This may not be the problem, but you need to at least eliminate it as a possible cause before you go on to more complicated tests.
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Old December 27th, 2021, 09:16 PM   #19
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Purpose of testing is to objectively find problems through boolean logic in yes/no terms.

1. measure battery voltage when pushing start-button

2. jump-start bike from known-good auto-battery that can start car (leave car off)

These tests saves tonnes of time because their data gives you exact course of action needed to fix. No wondering, no guessing, no parts-swapping needed.
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Old December 27th, 2021, 09:33 PM   #20
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Exactly ! just do what Danno says and you'll be up and running in no time !
LOL.....
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Old December 29th, 2021, 09:46 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
2. jump-start bike from known-good auto-battery that can start car (leave car off)
This test will most likely work. Then we just need one more logical elimination to definitely and positively identify culprit:

3. remove battery from bike. Jump-start bike again from known-good auto-battery with jumper cables directly connected to battery-cable ends that used to be bolted to battery. Again, leave car off, we are just borrowing its battery.
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Old January 1st, 2022, 06:53 PM   #22
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CaliGrrl !
Did you ever get that beastie figured out ?
and happy new year to all !
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Old January 2nd, 2022, 12:36 PM   #23
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We went and futzed with the bike the other day for a minute but then it got cold, so back inside, then we were out of town dealing with family stuff so no progress on PrettyBike yet.
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Old January 2nd, 2022, 01:08 PM   #24
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Yah ! sometimes life gets in the way of progress ! no doubt
same thing happened here recently a very sad affair but that is life, such as it is !......
Mt. Shasta (looking out my window) has a good coat of fresh snow on it
and the wind has kicked up again.... it's cloudy and overcast here and down right cold.... a good day for indoor projects ! LOL....
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Old January 4th, 2022, 05:57 PM   #25
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A jump from a car battery let PrettyBike turn over, so new battery is on order. Going with a lithium this time; husband has been using them in his bikes and this battery hasn't been changed (bought her used in 2016 so it's ... time).
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Old January 6th, 2022, 08:43 AM   #26
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Glad to hear it's back up and running! It couldn't hurt to throw a voltmeter over the terminals while the bike is running to make sure it's charging somewhere around 14 volts. If it's only 12.5 or so it will just kill the new battery.
Also, I'm sure many will pipe up on this as well, but be careful jumping off a car, especially if the car is running. It can literally fry the electrical system on a bike. I had a buddy total his zx6r that way... it was a real shame.
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Old January 6th, 2022, 09:04 AM   #27
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...be careful jumping off a car, especially if the car is running. It can literally fry the electrical system on a bike..
The problem is that a shunt regulator like our bikes have tries to regulate anything that's causing the battery voltage to be too high. In the case of a running car doing the charging, if the Ninja's regulator thinks the car's charge voltage is too high, it will try to regulate it, and if the car has a 50+ amp alternator, the NInja's regulator loses the battle.
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Old January 6th, 2022, 01:33 PM   #28
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Glad to hear it's back up and running! It couldn't hurt to throw a voltmeter over the terminals while the bike is running to make sure it's charging somewhere around 14 volts. If it's only 12.5 or so it will just kill the new battery.
Also, I'm sure many will pipe up on this as well, but be careful jumping off a car, especially if the car is running. It can literally fry the electrical system on a bike. I had a buddy total his zx6r that way... it was a real shame.
I have burnt the rectifier out of a bike jump starting it from a car....
Now I recommend removing the battery from the car completely, or at the very least remove one of the cables to it in the car... do not have the engine running in the car.... that is what got me.... I tried to charge the battery in the bike
with the car.... fried the expensive regulator....
you can pull the bike battery and charge it on the ground in front of the car without fear... but do not do it in the bike with all the cables hooked up !
that regulator cost me $98.00 plus shipping for the 700 honda Shadow !
at a time when I didn't have any extra cash.... it was a lesson learned the hard way !
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Old January 6th, 2022, 09:34 PM   #29
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Yeah, we don't turn the car on when jumping a bike.

New battery is delayed in shipping..... ::sniffle::
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Old January 7th, 2022, 03:44 AM   #30
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don't that figure !
oh well.... hopefully it won't take weeks to get there !
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Old January 7th, 2022, 05:53 PM   #31
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Ha! Battery arrived, topped off its charge, installed it, bike runs great! Voltages at rest, running, and after a check-out ride all check out proper.

Next step- replacing the rear turn signal that broke. Ordered both sides, since the left one is just about to break in the same way the right one did.
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Old January 7th, 2022, 07:22 PM   #32
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Ahhh ! fantastic ! it wasn't delayed too long at all ! good deal !!!
glad she is up and running properly. Prettygirl needs to be ridden to ward off the cold ya know ! <grin>
glad the problem is solved !
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Old January 10th, 2022, 09:18 PM   #33
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Yeah, I was glad it was only the battery!

Also, my turn signals got here and husband got the broken one replaced before yesterday's big day of curve-running. We did 200 miles- picked up a friend in L.A., did Mulholland (lots of curves and views of the city), Topanga (more curves), coffee and lunch in Malibu, then up Malibu Canyon, returned her to her home, and back to our home.

I'm hurting today but it was fun.

Next is to replace the other side turn signal, and husband wants to make better connections. In the interest of speed, he kind of hacked it together. The bullet connectors on the new signal aren't quite the right size to fit into the original ones on the wiring harness.
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Old January 10th, 2022, 09:38 PM   #34
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yah I ran into that on my turn-signals.... I had to cut off the bullet connectors because they didn't fit anything I had ...so I just put new ones on them....
i guess their a metric size but they don't fit my american size fittings ! LOL
( can't imagine why !)
their smaller than anything I had ! I tried crushing the female connector to fit but that didn't work at all ... they just mashed all over the place ! and not where I wanted them to ! so I just replaced them all.
.....


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Old January 11th, 2022, 05:10 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
yah I ran into that on my turn-signals.... I had to cut off the bullet connectors because they didn't fit anything I had ...so I just put new ones on them....
i guess their a metric size but they don't fit my american size fittings ! LOL
( can't imagine why !)
their smaller than anything I had ! I tried crushing the female connector to fit but that didn't work at all ... they just mashed all over the place ! and not where I wanted them to ! so I just replaced them all.
.....


Bob......
That right bullet connectors Japanese bike or metric size of 4mm or 3.9mm / 3.5mm / 2.5mm
You fine odd size here or if need reg 4mm or 3.9mm off eBay and they sell tool to in combo kit too.
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