March 16th, 2012, 05:05 AM | #1 |
james250ninjette.newbie
Name: james
Location: cherry hill, nj
Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): 1986 ninja 250 Posts: 276
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riding my ninja 250
i love the ninja 250s old gen and new, but why do i get the attitude from some riders NOT ALL BUT SOME that have 600 think thta 250 shouldnt even be consider a sports bike, they say there no power and those that put an aftermarket exhaust on a ninja 250 are a bunch of wanna beees 600..
i hate that. anyone ever get this around town or anywhere |
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March 16th, 2012, 05:17 AM | #2 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: David
Location: Florida
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: 357
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I got this crap (jokingly) from a former 250 owner! The 250 is plenty enough power to get you around town and you will beat every car at the front of the stoplight easily. I haven't met one 600 owner that talks smack rider better in the street or even on the track. Those that respect the 250 usually used to ride them or have been passed by one on a track.
What's considered a sportsbike to them is a very narrow definition according to those riders. They'll basically only consider a supersport with at least a 600cc engine and a really forward leaning angle. |
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March 16th, 2012, 07:16 AM | #3 |
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For your information; people that ride liter bikes think 600s are just for girls (sorry girls).
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March 16th, 2012, 11:38 AM | #4 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Dan
Location: Mississauga
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just hang around a bunch of scooter riders.......just look at the envy on their faces...they show towards your 250.....
Just kidding...... pay no attention to them is the best I can offer,,,,heck I am going from a 750, to a 250, so what's the big deal, it's still a bike, it will still get me to work taking the same amount of time, I still can't go 150 to get to work, if we got caught dong 150 we would lose the bike, and be charged with racing, I don't need the headache.... |
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March 16th, 2012, 11:51 AM | #5 | |
Always.
Name: Alex
Location: Calgary, AB
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250, '05 GSX-R600 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Very true, only dicks put down smaller bikes. But your thoughts are a bit hazy on the displacement issue, as to what is considered "using" the displacement. Using it doesn't mean full throttle every minute. People get a bit confused, now for me getting a 600 was just to experience it. You accelerate quicker, leans different. It's a different experience. What about those harleys with 1200+cc? Displacement is large but they aren't as crazy as crotch rockets, it's a different experience.
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March 16th, 2012, 01:41 PM | #6 |
CBR250R Traitor
Name: Jon
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Lots of people are ignorant and misinformed. They see the need to pointlessly put down things they don't understand, because they don't want to.
Their loss... |
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March 16th, 2012, 05:58 PM | #7 |
ninjette.org member
Name: drac
Location: VA
Join Date: Mar 2012 Motorcycle(s): '88 Hurricane 600, '09 Ninja 250 Posts: 237
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I am confused also about the "you can almost never acutally use the bigger displacement" comment. I have owned a number of 600's and while I have not hit top speed on every one of them. I have used "close" to the all the power and displacement available. I am not a pro by any means so I am sure there was probably a few horsepower left.
My point being you don't have to go ultra fast to use "all" the displacement. You can use all the power/displacement and never get out of 2nd gear.
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March 16th, 2012, 10:50 PM | #8 |
ninjette.org member
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Location: Lakeville,MN
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I've heard mostly good things about the 250 which is why it was the only bike I was looking at for a good month before I bought my 650, but for some reason I too have a friend who rides a cbr600rr, and when I was talking to him a few weeks ago about buying a bike he told me that he started on a ninja 250 and then proceeded to tell me not to get one under any circumstance. Must've had a bad experience with it idk.
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March 16th, 2012, 11:13 PM | #9 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: David
Location: Florida
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My friend who had a pre-gen got rid of it in six months because he said he quickly outgrew it from a couple of track days.
He proceeded to crash his new CBR600RR the first time out, so I don't know what to say. |
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March 17th, 2012, 05:31 AM | #10 | ||
ninjette.org member
Name: drac
Location: VA
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Quote:
I believe your statement regarding the inability to "almost never acutally use the bigger displacement" to be false. My contention is that regardless of displacement, it can and does get used quite often. Quote:
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March 17th, 2012, 10:16 AM | #11 |
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I don't follow. On what bike would you be able to reach its peak horsepower at 35 mph?
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March 17th, 2012, 10:20 AM | #12 | |
Always.
Name: Alex
Location: Calgary, AB
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250, '05 GSX-R600 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Yes they are. I never mentioned bore size affecting lean...
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March 17th, 2012, 10:41 AM | #13 |
ninjette.org member
Name: drac
Location: VA
Join Date: Mar 2012 Motorcycle(s): '88 Hurricane 600, '09 Ninja 250 Posts: 237
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horsepower is related to RPM not speed....Are you saying if a bike produces 50hp, it only makes that hp in 6th gear flat out? If a bike can make 50hp in 6th gear then it can make 50hp in 2nd....or damn close to it.
If you look at a Dyno sheet it gives hp in relation to rpm, yes? That is my understanding, please correct me if I am wrong.
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March 17th, 2012, 10:50 AM | #14 |
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HP is related to RPM, yes. A typical hp graph is below:
The peak hp on a 600 (100 - 110 hp) is up around that 12,000+ rpm range. But the problem is that at 12,000 RPM, those bikes are already going 55 - 60 mph in 1st gear. In 2nd gear, that rpm translates to about 80 mph. At 35 mph, even in 1st gear, the revs are around 7000 rpm, and if you look at the dyno chart, that means even at full throttle in 1st gear, at 35 mph the engine is only producing 40 - 45 hp. You can play with the gearing on www.gearingcommander.com to confirm. None of this means that nobody should buy larger displacement bikes. But the statement that you can't use the full power on these bikes for more than a moment or two just about anywhere on the street is relatively accurate. By the time you are at full power in 1st gear, you're already at highway speed. Now "full power" isn't the same thing as "full throttle". Of course you can be in a higher gear at lower speeds, and put on full throttle, but as the dyno chart shows, the bike won't be making that much hp, and you can hold full throttle for a period until it gets into a range where it is making more power. Short answer, other than the 250, there isn't a sportbike out there that is making peak hp anywhere near 35 mph, no matter what gear they are on.
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March 17th, 2012, 11:01 AM | #15 |
ninjette.org member
Name: drac
Location: VA
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I kinda agree with what you are saying Alex BUT if you entered a 35mph corner in 1st gear at 32-33mph and jumped on it I feel you could exit said corner at 55-60 and would have tapped somewhere near the peak hp.
Picture a back country road with a 35mph(posted) curve followed by a long straight. You break hard and late apex the turn and then just freakin' jump on her. I have done it as i am sure you have also. You don't think you have tapped a hell of a lot of the hp out of the bike a time or two?
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March 17th, 2012, 11:49 AM | #16 | |
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That's not what I interpreted your statement to mean.
Quote:
But that's a good thing anyway. If a bike really was trying to put 100+ hp to the rear wheel at 35 mph, it would pop the front wheel in the air and/or spin the rear tire anyway.
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March 17th, 2012, 02:51 PM | #17 |
ninjette.org member
Name: drac
Location: VA
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No they don't make max hp at 35mph but you stated yourself they do make it at 55-60. If I go into a 35mph turn and come out at 55-60 I have used all the available hp in the act of negotiating a 35mph(posted) turn.
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March 17th, 2012, 02:53 PM | #18 |
ninjette.org dude
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Sure - if you keep the 600 in first gear, and you're approaching 60 mph. Of course, if it's a literbike, it's more like 90 - 95 mph in 1st before you're at the power peak.
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March 17th, 2012, 03:02 PM | #19 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: drac
Location: VA
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Quote:
Bore size does not equate to displacement.
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March 17th, 2012, 03:10 PM | #20 | |
Nooblet
Name: Akima
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Quote:
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March 17th, 2012, 03:31 PM | #21 |
ninjette.org member
Name: drac
Location: VA
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Ummmm............ you are gonna need to point out where I changed my rationale. It has been pretty consistent throughout.
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March 17th, 2012, 03:33 PM | #22 | |||
Nooblet
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Quote:
The clue is in the bold text. Quote:
Quote:
Edit: I should also point out that there is evidence of a logical fallacy taking place in your argument. The specific falacy in this case is refereed to as 'moving the goal post'. Edit again: I should also point out that I don't hate you! It's possible to post-rationalise and make fallacious arguments without even realising you're doing it. I do it sometimes. We're all stupid humans (and squirrels) after all. |
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March 17th, 2012, 04:36 PM | #23 |
ninjette.org member
Name: drac
Location: VA
Join Date: Mar 2012 Motorcycle(s): '88 Hurricane 600, '09 Ninja 250 Posts: 237
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LOL...now I am making fallacious statements.
Lemme get this straight..... you are basing your psycho-babble on the fact that in one post I said "in" and in another post I said "exit"? Oh and by the way every corner has an exit...it's intrinsic. My logic is sound.
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March 17th, 2012, 04:42 PM | #24 |
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March 17th, 2012, 04:43 PM | #25 |
ninjette.org dude
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It was a 35 mph corner, now it's a corner that you can exit at 60 mph. You won't be seeing full power on a 600 until that higher speed, and you won't see full power on a 1000 until almost 40 mph past that. It's the nature of these bikes, so the statement earlier in this thread that it's hard to see the full power of a sportbike on the street rings true.
None of that directly translates into a rule that owning powerful bikes is useless because of that behavior. Using even a portion of their full power capabilities remains as fun as ever, right?
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March 17th, 2012, 04:53 PM | #26 |
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Uhmm...you did say you could use ALL of the power IN the 35 mph corner. Alex already showed you why you are wrong. After he brought forth this information, you then mentioned EXITING the corner. They are two completely seperate things.
Don't get me wrong here. I agree with you; you can, in fact, use ALL of the power a 600 has on the streets. But it is limited to those first two gears, and even then, especially in second, you will more than likely be breaking some laws. But what you initially stated was that you could use all the power IN the corner. Again, Alex already mentioned why that would actually be a bad thing.
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March 17th, 2012, 05:04 PM | #27 |
ninjette.org member
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I am not here to get in a pissing match with everyone.
A corner has three components entry, apex and exit. My assertion was that during at least one of those components you can use close to max hp. I felt I stated a fairly cogent argument. That is all. You guys disagree and that's cool. We all know it's not about hp....it's about the fun factor as Alex said.
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March 17th, 2012, 05:17 PM | #28 |
40 on the road
Name: Vod
Location: Victor, NY
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The Horsepower-Torque Conundrum
Just to lighten the moment...
Wouldn't it be easier and so much more fun to ride liter motorcycles or Vespas rather than continuing this thread to page two? Liter bikes or scooters - the discussion is less than moot without a Masters from MIT (Wolowitz has one and rides a scooter) or enough moolah, cash, cabbage, dinero, credit, Benjamins, money supply, money orders, currency, or medium of exchange to ride what you want, when you want. Steve McQueen did. Malcom Smith (I hope you all know who he is - if not, google him) does. |
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March 17th, 2012, 05:18 PM | #29 |
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Well that simply won't do. Our raison d'etre is pissing matches all around!
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March 17th, 2012, 05:43 PM | #30 |
ninjette.org member
Name: drac
Location: VA
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LOL....are those two guys from the "Blue Man Group"?
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March 17th, 2012, 06:20 PM | #31 | |
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March 17th, 2012, 07:17 PM | #32 | |
Always.
Name: Alex
Location: Calgary, AB
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250, '05 GSX-R600 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Alright, bigger displacement = more weight. More weight = different leaning technique
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March 17th, 2012, 07:36 PM | #33 |
ninjette.org dude
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I said sportbike.
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