Ecotrons Install Thread

[setasai]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I'm in and out of the carbs all the time. Battery box is cut off of my airbox. Makes it tons easier.

Also, Muzzy full exhaust

That setup doesnt work on the newgen. Battery box is already separate and does not give it anymore room than it would have otherwise.

[choneofakind]

well yeah! but that's why I debate the whole pod filter thing. It won't really make anything easier for me, and it will kill my mileage. Idk if it's worth it for the little top end I'll potentially get.

[setasai]

Heh I wouldnt. Not much of a benefit and huge noise increase.

I'm actually considering swapping the airbox back in because of the noise and just dealing with it. If the new throttlebody ends up being damn stable, I'd be more inclined to do it.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by setasai

Ha! That's the same mentality I had with the carbs.

I wasnt talking about the ecotrons TB, I was talking about your OEM. You said you got yourself an OEM TB. Just install that and get rid of the carbs. Did you attempt to modify the OEM fuel rail too? Cuz that would be bonkers.

No I never said I got an OEM TB. I wish I had one. To get one, you have to wait until some guy in the UK wrecks his. Too many safety regs over there. AFAIK, the only mods required on the OEM is to remove the aux butterfly. Minor mods to make it fit the airbox/pods are also required.

As far as the new ecotrons TB goes, its clear he neglected to account for the thermal expansion of aluminum. I think that will bite the installer in the butt. But we'll see. I do like the fact that he turned the injector mounts sideways before he glued them on. That keeps the electrical connectors clear. But other than that, its basically the same pair of throttle bodies that we already have - just different jury rigging. I'm not sure why he's so insistent about using them. I suspect maybe he bought a trainload of them and wants to use them up.

I don't see how to cut out the battery box from the airbox. It looks like if I did, it would leave the battery box open on the front side. Its hard to tell. I didn't remove the airbox to get the carbs out. And if I did cut it loose, what holds the airbox since the bolt holes are in the bottom of the battery box?

[Somchai]

Hello n4mwd,

if you're looking for an oem-tb you can also look in German-Bay. Maybe this one is for you http://www.ebay.de/itm/Kawasaki-EX-2...item589381345c
You can search for: Ninja 250* einspr* (its called Einspritzanlage). I told Matt some of them but don't know if he bought them all.

I've been reading the comments here and I don't understand why Matt didn't send you a pm and met you anywhere in the middle (there are always ways do make a customer satisfied). But one unsatisfied customer can kill all of your reputation. But that's not up to me even when I don't understand the comments of setasai against you and its also not up to me to say what I think about this.
I wish you good luck and it would be a pleasure for me to help you if I can, so take a look in German-Bay there you can always find things like this.

[flynjay]

Originally Posted by setasai

Back on topic: I wonder if I should try using unifilters instead of the KN-0990 pod filters. Those KN ones are super heavy with all that rubber. I'm afraid it'll put stress on the body and boots. If it bends enough, it might even make the injection out of alignment.

Anybody have unifilter pod filters that you would recommend. The foam individual ones would be just fine. I dont mind the oiling of it.

If you are worried about stability of the unipod, you could always support the end of the pod to the frame.

[setasai]

@flynjay Yea I thought about that. Question is how since there arent any mount points on the K&N filter. I've been thinking about it, might mount something to the original airbox bolts and then possibly glue something to the end of the K&N rubber flat section.

@Somchai It's a long long story. I dont have any problems with @n4mwd. I respect his opinion but I also have my own. There are always many ways to resolve a problem but the situation is what it is.

@n4mwd Good point about the aluminum expansion. I guess we'll find out if it works out. Yea if you cut the battery box out, it does leave the front side open. The advantage is that you can remove the battery box and then shift the airbox portion backwards. I doubt the battery will move anywhere even though it's open. If you're concerned you could probably get away with a rubber strap or something.

[flynjay]

I don't know if the new-gen has it, but the old gen bikes have a mounting bracket for the front of the airbox. You could drill a hole in the K&N filter on the flat rubber side opposite the throttle body. Small strip of steel would be all that is necessary.

It's not like it has to be tightly sealed, you could put silicone around the hole or a neoprene washer if you are really worried about it.

Another modification that I plan on making with the new throttle body install is to mount the fuel pump under the TB's. That should help greatly in my fuel line routing.

[n4mwd]

Thanks Somchai for that link to the German ebay. I looked at it and will look at it some more. It is complicated by the fact that I don't speak German. I also have reasons to suspect that the US market will go EFI with the next model year, but I have to wait until October to find out if its true.

Originally Posted by setasai

@n4mwd Good point about the aluminum expansion. I guess we'll find out if it works out. Yea if you cut the battery box out, it does leave the front side open. The advantage is that you can remove the battery box and then shift the airbox portion backwards. I doubt the battery will move anywhere even though it's open. If you're concerned you could probably get away with a rubber strap or something.

In my experiments, if the alignment of the injectors was a few thousandths of an inch off, they would leak. That's why I went with a multi-part rail which allows for thermal expansion. So its going to depend on a lot of factors. I'm not promising they will leak, but its something to keep an eye on.

There is already a strap that wraps over the battery and there is a rubber boot that the battery sits in. I'm not crazy about the half box thing. It may be possible to locate a stand alone box to replace it with. I could also add some bolts between the battery box and the air box that way.

Its only 4 bolts to do it like it is, but two of them a re pitas.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I also have reasons to suspect that the US market will go EFI with the next model year, but I have to wait until October to find out if its true.

New Ninja 1000 in 2011
New Ninja 650 in 2012
New Ninja 250 in 2013, it only makes sense afterall

[choneofakind]

@setasai a while back I read a post by kkim that he supported his carbs by using a ziptie from the frame and the bar that connects the 2 carbs. That held the weight of the carbs and he seemed fine with that.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by flynjay

Another modification that I plan on making with the new throttle body install is to mount the fuel pump under the TB's. That should help greatly in my fuel line routing.

I mentioned that before. Just drill out the second TB's cable bracket hole located in the middle bottom of the photo. You can then put a bolt through there and attach the fuel pump using the supplied bracket. It may be necessary to use zip ties to force it into the required angle for bubbling.



PS - This will violate your warranty.

[ecotrons]

Originally Posted by setasai

@n4mwd Good point about the aluminum expansion. I guess we'll find out if it works out.

Aluminum fuel rail will not be overheated, because fuel flow has the cooling effect. No such expansion that could cause leaking. We tested this already.

The alignment of fuel rail to 2x injectors are designed to be fit. No mis-alignment issue.

Just because somebody could not do it, does not mean others can not do it.

[ecotrons]

Originally Posted by flynjay

Another modification that I plan on making with the new throttle body install is to mount the fuel pump under the TB's. That should help greatly in my fuel line routing.

Not recommended. The TB is very close to the engine body already. The area under the TB can be very hot. The fuel pump generates heat during working, though cooled by fuel flow. Heat could be an issue.

EDIT: to be removed (Plus the TBs hang on the 2 boots which are not really a rigid connection. The fuel pump adds more weight. )
it is actually rigid enough because of very short boots.

Overall, it's not a good location for the fuel pump.

The fuel pump should be fixed somewhere on the frame; and where the ventilation is comparatively good; and on the inner side of the frame, so it does not scratch or hit the ground.

[EMSRacer07]

update for me:

Got the new TB and everything with it and i would say im really impressed with the new design. I loved my "old gen" TB but the new gen made it alot easier to install everything. Even got creative with the routing of the fuel lines to make it looks neat . And i was able to use my original throttle cables on the new TB as well as with the old design i only could get the secondary cable to fit with the TBs upside down. But everything fit with the injectors on top. Very pleased with the fuel rail too. As Matt just said everything lines up.

@setasai with the new boot the new TBs are very sturdy and dont move that much. I have the K&N single pod and it went on with no problems, even with the old gen TBs i had no issues with that whats so ever. NO mounting brackets or anything.

Also with the new software it seems like the self learning software is super fast. I have k&n pods, muzzy exhaust, and since im pregen and really old i have what ppl refer to the performance camshafts and before i did the install i was running fine, little idling going up and down, and a bit of popping bc the new exhaust. Started the bike today first try with everything correct and everything was fixed. idle and popping. Even felt like everything was a bit more stronger of a pull.

All in all took me about 3-4 hours to install everything (had to redo the fuel lines bc i had the fuel injectors on the bottom before. And about an hour to get the software to fight with my antivirus lol. But Was all worth it . Im very pleased with the new gen system.

[choneofakind]

@EMSRacer07 you need to post some pictures of your intake setup now. I'm really considering this for a project for next winter

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

@EMSRacer07 you need to post some pictures of your intake setup now. I'm really considering this for a project for next winter

lol i still need to send you my exhuast pics :P but yeah i post pics tomorrow.

[setasai]

Originally Posted by ecotrons

Just because somebody could not do it, does not mean others can not do it.

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by EMSRacer07

As Matt just said everything lines up.

@setasai with the new boot the new TBs are very sturdy and dont move that much. I have the K&N single pod and it went on with no problems, even with the old gen TBs i had no issues with that whats so ever. NO mounting brackets or anything.

All in all took me about 3-4 hours to install everything (had to redo the fuel lines bc i had the fuel injectors on the bottom before. And about an hour to get the software to fight with my antivirus lol. But Was all worth it . Im very pleased with the new gen system.

Agreed. Alignment is perfect and very sturdy. I like the new fuel rail but with the new boots, which i also love, the throttlebody comes very close to the engine. Not a negative. It just surprised me and forced me to reroute some of the fuel lines as well. This took the bulk of the time.

I also noticed that too. The new boots are uber secure. I was concerned before, but definitely not anymore.

It took me about 4 hours as well to put it together. Hardest part was figuring out where I wanted to route the fuel lines. It would be easier if the K&N wasnt so bulky. It started right up. Havent had a chance to take it out but this should be a fun weekend. Those of you doing the swap, this would be a good opportunity to lube and grease up your throttle cables.

Btw, I have my fuel pump below the throttlebody but further towards the back. I used the bolt that was originally for the airbox. I couldnt find a better spot since majority of the space on the left side of the frame is taken up by access to the throttle cables. Anywhere else wouldnt be low enough to be under the gas tank. It might be different on the pregens.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by EMSRacer07

lol i still need to send you my exhuast pics :P but yeah i post pics tomorrow.

yes please to both.

But for real, I want your impressions on this long term because in the fall, if I get my work-study job that I just interviewed and trained for, I'll very very seriously consider this new and improved kit, depending on how it fares long-term.

Do you have the A/F sensors in your headers or are you just running on a table that you figured out on your own? Also, what kind of mileage are you getting with the K&N and full exhaust? I have the feeling you'll get the same mileage I get, and you're running a more open intake than I am. Also, are you planning on getting your bike tuned on the dyno? I'm interested in how consistent the AFR is.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by setasai

Fair enough.



Agreed. Alignment is perfect and very sturdy. I like the new fuel rail but with the new boots, which i also love, the throttlebody comes very close to the engine. Not a negative. It just surprised me and forced me to reroute some of the fuel lines as well. This took the bulk of the time.

I also noticed that too. The new boots are uber secure. I was concerned before, but definitely not anymore.

It took me about 4 hours as well to put it together. Hardest part was figuring out where I wanted to route the fuel lines. It would be easier if the K&N wasnt so bulky. It started right up. Havent had a chance to take it out but this should be a fun weekend. Those of you doing the swap, this would be a good opportunity to lube and grease up your throttle cables.

Btw, I have my fuel pump below the throttlebody but further towards the back. I used the bolt that was originally for the airbox. I couldnt find a better spot since majority of the space on the left side of the frame is taken up by access to the throttle cables. Anywhere else wouldnt be low enough to be under the gas tank. It might be different on the pregens.

i know the new boots are really secure. and they are tight to the head and new TBs. Really excited . and yeah the K&n filter is a bit bulky. i had to run a line right by it :P.

Make sure u updated the software and everything.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

yes please to both.

But for real, I want your impressions on this long term because in the fall, if I get my work-study job that I just interviewed and trained for, I'll very very seriously consider this new and improved kit, depending on how it fares long-term.

Do you have the A/F sensors in your headers or are you just running on a table that you figured out on your own? Also, what kind of mileage are you getting with the K&N and full exhaust? I have the feeling you'll get the same mileage I get, and you're running a more open intake than I am. Also, are you planning on getting your bike tuned on the dyno? I'm interested in how consistent the AFR is.

Well the "old gen" kit i already had almost 2k miles on it. i travel out of town alot which is always more than 200-400 miles a trip. and i love starting it right up, no chock crap, no falling or dead spots like at 4k or like 7k ( thats where my carbs used to suck at), when i travel i travel up mountains so usually a 1k to 2k elevation change and the carbs would always fail. but with efi it always self tunes and adjusts itself so all good there .

No im running the o2 sensors, even since day 1 and even on the muzzy header i have now. But i have done some work on the table when i do the "race mode switch" lol. But thats it. And i always get over 65mpg. on my long trips going 80mph or so i get about 70mpg and thats with me having some fun :P. But if im easy i have seen 75mpg. i have different gearing though too.

dyno is soon and with the self tune i never worry about the afr so much.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by EMSRacer07

No im running the o2 sensors, even since day 1 and even on the muzzy header i have now...

...dyno is soon and with the self tune i never worry about the afr so much.

That's what I meant, O2 sensors. Derp. So you do have them?

Well when you get the dyno numbers, would you mind posting that up here? I'm interested in seeing what it looks like.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

That's what I meant, O2 sensors. Derp. So you do have them?

Well when you get the dyno numbers, would you mind posting that up here? I'm interested in seeing what it looks like.

yep the kit comes with 2 o2 sensors. only costed me 20 bucks to have them weld bungs on. and will do. im going to hit a dyno day here so hopefully soon.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by ecotrons

Just because somebody could not do it, does not mean others can not do it.

The alignment of mine is off by 5mm and yes, it does leak.

PS - I'm talking about the TB and not the fuel rail.

[flynjay]

Originally Posted by ecotrons

Not recommended. The TB is very close to the engine body already. The area under the TB can be very hot. The fuel pump generates heat during working, though cooled by fuel flow. Heat could be an issue.

Plus the TBs hang on the 2 boots which are not really a rigid connection. The fuel pump adds more weight.

Overall, it's not a good location for the fuel pump.

The fuel pump should be fixed somewhere on the frame; and where the ventilation is comparatively good; and on the inner side of the frame, so it does not scratch or hit the ground.

Noted. I will find somewhere else to mount it.

[ecotrons]

Originally Posted by flynjay

Noted. I will find somewhere else to mount it.

Example of fuel pump mounting: drill a hole on the air box, and hang the fuel pump there with the bracket included.

Note: in this way, you will need to turn the fuel rail 180 degree so that the 2 elbows are pointing to the air box. And just to be clear, the fuel rail is symmetric, no difference which side is for cylinder #1.

This way actually may have another benefit: the high pressure fuel lines can be far away from the engine block.

EDIT: 2 pictures removed. Not pretty.

[setasai]

Just had a chance to tweak the Idle screws and took it out for a spin.

MUCH improved over the original TB. I think I still need to tweak the screws a little more after a few more cold starts and warm ups but I love this setup. The new boots made a huge difference in stability.

Good idea on the reversal of the fuel rail. I actually might do that but I have a feeling the K&N will be in the way. Will check it out tomorrow but I'm feeling lazy since it's running so well.

[Jiggles]

Fantastic @setasai, now we must race! Except you have a 15T sprocket in the front, oh and my bike is broke

[setasai]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Fantastic @setasai, now we must race! Except you have a 15T sprocket in the front, oh and my bike is broke

Me vs you on your scooter. I'm going to test a few more things tomorrow and then I'll bring it over so you can see it.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by setasai

Just had a chance to tweak the Idle screws and took it out for a spin.

MUCH improved over the original TB. I think I still need to tweak the screws a little more after a few more cold starts and warm ups but I love this setup. The new boots made a huge difference in stability.

Good idea on the reversal of the fuel rail. I actually might do that but I have a feeling the K&N will be in the way. Will check it out tomorrow but I'm feeling lazy since it's running so well.

ha funny u said that i ran them on the top too but actually was easier and so much better to run them downward. I took it apart today to fix it like matt had in the pictures :P. But no u got enough room with the K&N pods. i did. And yeah went driving around and feels alot better especially at highway speeds.

[setasai]

Originally Posted by EMSRacer07

ha funny u said that i ran them on the top too but actually was easier and so much better to run them downward. I took it apart today to fix it like matt had in the pictures :P. But no u got enough room with the K&N pods. i did. And yeah went driving around and feels alot better especially at highway speeds.

Oh really... Hmmm Maybe I'll try that. Although Like you said, I dont really want to take it apart again... gahhhhhh decisions decisions... ok I'll think about it... may need new hoses though. I dont think the ones I have will run the same way.

I wanted to ask you. How fast does your rpms rise when you go from start. I feel like during idle at 1500rpm up to around 2-2.5k the engine sputters and then WHAM power. Maybe it just needs some self tuning timing. I cant even remember if my carbs did this. I took like 10mins of logs with my laptop strapped to the back so maybe I can see if anything can be tweaked.

[Jiggles]

Well honestly when are you in gear at 2-2.5k rpms??? The correct answer should be never

[setasai]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Well honestly when are you in gear at 2-2.5k rpms??? The correct answer should be never

True but the sputtering holds the RPMs around 2-2.5k for an extra second longer than I "feel" like I am used to and so I cant let the clutch out until it gets past that. It's like the issue we had with the carbs, give it gas when it's cold and it kinda chokes itself for a second before it comes to life.

I say I "feel" like it's slower but I cant be sure. Possible placebo effect.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by setasai

Oh really... Hmmm Maybe I'll try that. Although Like you said, I dont really want to take it apart again... gahhhhhh decisions decisions... ok I'll think about it... may need new hoses though. I dont think the ones I have will run the same way.

I wanted to ask you. How fast does your rpms rise when you go from start. I feel like during idle at 1500rpm up to around 2-2.5k the engine sputters and then WHAM power. Maybe it just needs some self tuning timing. I cant even remember if my carbs did this. I took like 10mins of logs with my laptop strapped to the back so maybe I can see if anything can be tweaked.

Yea me and Matt are working on that. Guess with the new software left that "dead spot" from 1.5k to 2.5k then at 3k shoot like a rocket lol. But i got some data and sent it to matt. I think its an igniton issue. Not sure. He will probably let you know as soon as i know.

[setasai]

Originally Posted by EMSRacer07

Yea me and Matt are working on that. Guess with the new software left that "dead spot" from 1.5k to 2.5k then at 3k shoot like a rocket lol. But i got some data and sent it to matt. I think its an igniton issue. Not sure. He will probably let you know as soon as i know.

Oh Okay. If you guys are discussing via email, I wouldnt mind being CC'ed since I have the same issue. I can help try out things as well and experiment with it. I'm glad you are experiencing the same thing... at least I know I am not alone. I have a ton of logs too and it kinda looks like it's just delayed. Like TPS increases and then a split second after the rest follows.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by setasai

Oh Okay. If you guys are discussing via email, I wouldnt mind being CC'ed since I have the same issue. I can help try out things as well and experiment with it. I'm glad you are experiencing the same thing... at least I know I am not alone. I have a ton of logs too and it kinda looks like it's just delayed. Like TPS increases and then a split second after the rest follows.

Ok just email him that you are having the same dead spot issue and maybe me and you can get it tested out before the others have this issue. Yeah no worries. To me everything else seems to be fine other than the stand still part. How about for you?

Yeah i looked at my data and looks like spark or fuel is delayed in reaction.

[setasai]

Originally Posted by EMSRacer07

To me everything else seems to be fine other than the stand still part. How about for you?

Yeah i looked at my data and looks like spark or fuel is delayed in reaction.

Same. Once it gets past 3k it's quick and lots of torque. Not sure what it might be. Only happens when starting from total idle. Kinda makes quick getaways difficult.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by setasai

@n4mwd Just saying... even if Matt had any intention of changing his mind or it being a joke, after your last couple posts, I'd be very surprised if anybody in his position would consider helping you out.

Anyone who responds that way in a similar position does not deserve the position and, for the good of the company, should not be there even if they are the owner. They need to delegate it to someone competent in in dealing with customers.

I tried to use a coupon at Hardee's (Carl's Jr) last month and was told that it wasn't valid yet for no other reason than that it expired more than a month later and wasn't working in the computer. I suggested to them that something was probably wrong with the computer because other coupons on the same sheet with the same expiration date worked, the only one having an issue was the one for the new product, and it only made sense that it was a launch promotion that should have been timed to coincide with the launch instead of a month later. They probably hoped it was just not valid yet because they didn't offer to over-ride or correct the price so, rather than looking into it, they just insisted that I was wrong and they couldn't accept it rather than checking/confirming the problem and fixing it for me and anyone else attempting to use it. It was truly just that: A suggestion. Not an argument. I was polite and accepted their insistence that it simply wasn't valid yet and ordered something else. Rather than wait until the middle of the following month, my mother tried to use it again at the start of the next month, just in case they were right that it simply wasn't valid yet but wrong about when it would be valid. This time, they refused it without even trying, which means that they had been refusing other customers and were used to denying it. I had business in town near another Hardee's and so I decided to try it there and it worked without issue. No over-ride, price adjustment, or mention of a problem. We also did not mention the problem at the other location. Because it was on our way home, we both stopped at the problematic location to tell them that there was something wrong with their computers and they might want to fix it rather than turning customers away and defeating the whole purpose of the promotion. In other words, we were HELPING, and we made sure to present it as that instead of being confrontational. We weren't coming back to make a stink. Didn't matter: they responded in the way that YOU seem to think is appropriate: They did not apologize, they did not acknowledge the problem, and they did not thank me for bringing it to their attention, they simply took the receipt, demanded to know where it came from, disappeared while they talked to each other, then returned my receipt and refused to talk to me. I'm serious. The person started talking across the restaurant to another employee about something unrelated while I was mid-sentence and refused to say another word to me. That's where I, the helpful customer, drew the line. What was a simple informative and helpful response is now a damning complaint. I remembered that they give you a free Six Dollar Burger / Chicken Sandwich coupon when you comment on their site due to the hot-deals websites (they suspend it for a little while each time a new flood of deal-seekers discover and abuse it). I went straight home and made my now-justified complaint. I wasn't complaining about the coupon refusal, I wasn't complaining about being told that I was wrong when I was right, I was complaining because someone responded exactly the wrong way than they should have. What you are suggesting, is that they respond exactly the wrong way than they should.

I work at a truck gate and I've told my coworkers time and time again to stop returning bad-attitudes to the truck drivers because they only make things hard for both parties. They can deflect and sympathize or ignore, but being a jerk in return only escalates it. The problem is, I am not the boss so, instead, I see them bragging about how they made some driver do something inconvenient and gave them a hard time because the driver had a bad attitude as if responding that way was some feather to stick in their cap. Let me tell you something: Even though these people aren't our "customers," so to speak, I would not tolerate that if I were the boss. When I get someone with a bad attitude, I try to shame them with kindness and understanding so that they feel like an idiot for trying to treat me like crap. It's always worked so far. My job is to enforce policy so I can't be flexible, but I can satisfy someone even without bending the rules. I simply acknowledge the situation that upsets them, express sympathy even going as far to apologize for something I have no control over, then I explain that *the company* requires this or that, and make sure that they understand that I would lose my job if I deviated. I emphasized "the company" because that's the first thing the other guys do when someone starts being a jerk to them: They start throwing their weight around and ordering the driver do things instead of asking. They revel in it. Just yesterday, I had a driver tell me out-right that I was the nicest person they had ever encountered at any of their stops. That's the feather I want in my cap.

Now, back to the modified throttle body situation: if the guy explained that he was sorry but couldn't take it for a GOOD reason that we can all agree to or explained that he could not and that he would have to talk to a higher-up if he disagreed, it would be one thing, but he did something else entirely: He blamed a customer for being unable to return it, was unapologetic / unsympathetic about the circumstances, and made no attempt to justify the decision. The only remaining mistake to make is the one you suggest which only makes things worse. Anyone behaving as you describe who treats an upset customer worse than a polite customer should not be in a position that gives them any flexibility with dealing with the customer. PERIOD. Retaliation for a perceived personal slight does not get the job done nor is it in the company or the customer's interest, therefore, they are acting AGAINST the basic duties of their job and deserve termination. That's exactly what got the Hardee's employees in a lot of trouble: the treatment I received after they perceived me (wrongly) as a trouble-maker and NOT the actual error that I helped discover. I've received three follow-up calls and the regional manager agrees: it was the exact opposite of what the right response would have been EVEN IF I were being rude and making trouble.

People have completely forgotten how this works. It isn't "customer is always right," but customer service is the most important impression you can give and there is no place for the mentality you described in this market. It's not like there is any competition but, with or without competition, customers can still be turned orr and outraged over how others are treated.

[Jiggles]

@CZroe thanks for the ridiculously long story lol, but Matt said he would not return the throttle body because it had been modified. Matt also offered to buy the kit back from n4 for 75% of what it originally sold for despite all the modifications.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by CZroe

People have completely forgotten how this works. It isn't "customer is always right," but customer service is the most important impression you can give and there is no place for the mentality you described in this market. It's not like there is any competition but, with or without competition, customers can still be turned orr and outraged over how others are treated.

Thanks for the support. Yeah, there is a grocery store down here that is the total opposite of ecotrons in terms of customer support. Other stores, like Winn Dixie, you get up to the front and you have about a 50-50 chance of it ringing up with the correct marked price. At Publix, a major Florida grocery chain, if it doesn't ring up with the right price -- its free. As a result, its pretty rare that something actually rings up wrong.

Although Matt stated that I wont be getting the new throttle body because I modified mine, he did send one to setasai who modified his in nearly the same way. So NO, my modification was not the REAL reason he shafted me. The real reason was personal as you pointed out.

After working a month on this designing a new fuel rail, and then finding out that it couldn't possibly work because the alignment between the TB's was not only off, but off at a very odd angle by more than 5mm, my level of frustration got so high that I finally put the kit up for sale.

Then when Matt said he was coming out with a new TB I thought that I could just keep the kit and get the new TB and install it myself as I originally planned.

So now that Matt has pulled this stunt of excluding me, my level of frustration has hit the roof so that now I am offering it for sale again. I really want EFI, but I think its time to put some distance between me a ecotrons. So I have lowered the price on my For Sale thread to $400. After I sell it, I'll probably do something similar to Greg737 and go with a Microsquirt or something. I posted photos on that thread of the misalignment that has been causing all the trouble.