quick question

[Electronic M]

Megasquirt is a universal ecu, it was made to convert carbed engines to efi on a budget, since then they advanced to the point where oem efi ecus are being converted to megasquirt. There are megasquirt 1, 2, and 3, along with a microsquirt v3, and ms3pro that just came out which is amazing. You get to decide which one you want to use, you can buy one that is already built, or you can buy parts and build one yourself.


My biggest question is if I should build one for a 300 that's already efi, or should I go with older 250 that will need to be converted to efi first ( which is pretty affordable) and then megasquirt it. That is the question lol.

[alex.s]

lets go over the history of this thread... because it's rather comical IMO.

OP: quick question, how to get more mpg and more power?

others: wat

OP: <splurge a bunch of crap about what was asked and how op already knows everything but still asking questions op answered themself>

others: uhh

OP: ?!!!!!!!


no offense dima. but you are asking very specific question it seems you already know the answers to. wondering why ask the questions in the first place? when you already know the answers?

the latest question resolves down to how much effort and money you want to put in. literally nobody can answer this but you.

[micoulisninja]

Originally Posted by Electronic M

Megasquirt is a universal ecu, it was made to convert carbed engines to efi on a budget, since then they advanced to the point where oem efi ecus are being converted to megasquirt. There are megasquirt 1, 2, and 3, along with a microsquirt v3, and ms3pro that just came out which is amazing. You get to decide which one you want to use, you can buy one that is already built, or you can buy parts and build one yourself.


My biggest question is if I should build one for a 300 that's already efi, or should I go with older 250 that will need to be converted to efi first ( which is pretty affordable) and then megasquirt it. That is the question lol.

Ok, just went through the whole thread just to find out that you had posted the answers.... anyway...cheapest way is to use the 250 EFi stock ecu which has higher rev limit, more advanced ignition timing compared to 300's but of course using that megasquirt thing would be far better....

however Alex has a point...you seem to know much more about that stuff than most of us already so it seems odd you ask for our opinion...

[Somchai]

@micoulisninja, Nick let me add to that what @Electronic M said, just as a side-information, when BMW came with their turbo engine for the Formula 1 the innovation was not the engine with the turbocharger by itself (many people don't know that each of those engines they used as base for the race-engines had run already minimum 100000 km's), no the real innovation was a so-called blackbox including the digital controlsystem for injection and ignition.
So to make it better understandable, a stock ecu for what we look for and talk about for what we want is middle age, the megasquirt is future and when one is doing real serious and successful tuning there is no point to go without the megasquirt ecu.
And to make my point about this thread, when one is calling himself 'Electronic' then there must be a reason for this and when he's asking about best power with best gas mileage then there must be more reason behind...
And now my answer to the starting question: Yes, it's possible to have more power with better gas mileage - not only unless you use the more power all the time...
As example I just take a BMW injection engine from the 70s with 3000cc and 200hp with a gas usage from up to 20 liters per 100 km and then look at the BMW engine from today with up to 400 hp they take only up to 15 liters per 100 km - not to talk about the Diesel engines.
All you need is to set up all the engine parameters and this can not be done with a stock ecu and just forget the Power Commander in this case, since this is not more than a toy to make a little gain but more than that make money for the seller - the answer is: MEGASQUIRT
The same I said about the PC can be said about Takai-Coils and the so on also, or does anybody think it makes a difference if you light up benzine with a match or a lighter?
The electronics nowadays make nearly everything possible, just think about the future of ignition systems: in Germany they test it with laser now.
If one is really interested in what's going on in the automotive business - it's still Germany one has to look for.

[JohnnyBravo]

I have a areaP tuner and exhaust... Won't do timing though, I think only the bazzaz tuner does that at this moment

[greenaero]

If I ever switch to running an FI moto I know where to go for some advice

[Somchai]

Originally Posted by greenaero

If I ever switch to running an FI moto I know where to go for some advice

Vic please let me say one thing, even when carbs are not the worst case, but nowadays they're nearly to compare with stone age-technology.
But the performance you're showing with them in your challenge needs to be honoured with the highest respect.
And when you change to FI I'm sure in Electronic M you find the best man to support you, when you go with megasquirt.

[sharky nrk]

Originally Posted by Somchai

All you need is to set up all the engine parameters

While I do agree with most of what you said, this is one area that I do take issue with. While there is certainly much to be gained in terms of tightly controlling the combustion events in an engine, there are significant differences between a modern vehicle and an antiquated design with modern controls.

You can certainly improve the efficiency of said BMW example with a powerful ecu and associated sensors, but everything about the vehicles design influences its efficiency.

Everything from the moment the air approaches the vehicle, aerodynamics, weight, rolling resistance, airflow patterns in and out of the engine, engine design, metallurgy, fuel system design and fuel system pressure, and on and on and on and on

Advancements have been made in all aspects of automotive design that allow for efficiency and power. Throwing an ecu at a vehicle that's R&D was done in a time that these improvements were unknown will not result in those improvements manifesting. A powerful ecu will simply allow you far better control of what you have.

[Somchai]

Originally Posted by sharky nrk

While I do agree with most of what you said, this is one area that I do take issue with. While there is certainly much to be gained in terms of tightly controlling the combustion events in an engine, there are significant differences between a modern vehicle and an antiquated design with modern controls.

You can certainly improve the efficiency of said BMW example with a powerful ecu and associated sensors, but everything about the vehicles design influences its efficiency.

Everything from the moment the air approaches the vehicle, aerodynamics, weight, rolling resistance, airflow patterns in and out of the engine, engine design, metallurgy, fuel system design and fuel system pressure, and on and on and on and on

Advancements have been made in all aspects of automotive design that allow for efficiency and power. Throwing an ecu at a vehicle that's R&D was done in a time that these improvements were unknown will not result in those improvements manifesting. A powerful ecu will simply allow you far better control of what you have.

Thx Neil - yes you're right, at least like in most cases its the result of the whole package which gives you the greatest success.

[JohnnyBravo]

You need a turbo, and this squirt thing

[Electronic M]

hahaha, I was driving on i24 east in Tennessee with crazy elevation change due to 6% grade and I couldn't stop but to think, man I would love to see 2 250r there, one with carbs and one with megasquirt, to see which one would make it up the hill

[alex.s]

they're 250s. neither make it up the hill! badumpsh

[liberpolly]

Anyone can make it up the hill in a first gear. If I can make it up Seattle hills, you can make it anywhere.

[micoulisninja]

Originally Posted by Electronic M

hahaha, I was driving on i24 east in Tennessee with crazy elevation change due to 6% grade and I couldn't stop but to think, man I would love to see 2 250r there, one with carbs and one with megasquirt, to see which one would make it up the hill

very few can realize the huge gap between the two because very few have experience with both...the adapting of the FI is waaay better compared to carbs when changing altitude rapidly...and if I can feel a huge improvement of a PC V equipped FI over stock, then with that megathing I guess I would go ...squirting uphill
so the point is not if you can make it to somewhere but how efficiently (either in terms of speed, engine operating quality or fuel consumption)

[Electronic M]

Originally Posted by micoulisninja

very few can realize the huge gap between the two because very few have experience with both...the adapting of the FI is waaay better compared to carbs when changing altitude rapidly...and if I can feel a huge improvement of a PC V equipped FI over stock, then with that megathing I guess I would go ...squirting uphill
so the point is not if you can make it to somewhere but how efficiently (either in terms of speed, engine operating quality or fuel consumption)

I was just saying it would be a good spot to compare carbs, factory efi, and stand alone ecu. The difference would clearly be seen by the max speed and fuel consumption between the three. I am not sure about 300 factory efi system, but on the older bikes, factory ecu was barely better than the carbs, the ram air compensation, altitude adjustment and air temp adjustments aren't good at all. With the bazzaz that I used to run, every week I'd have to constantly adjust the amount of fuel depending on weather conditions, and it would be off by a good margin. Stock ecu was good for the average street bike, but if you wanted to get the most out of it, it needed constant tuning.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Electronic M

but on the older bikes, factory ecu was barely better than the carbs, the ram air compensation, altitude adjustment and air temp adjustments aren't good at all.

250.... ram air?

250 tops out at like... 105mph.... ram air has like.... zero effect below that speed.

[Somchai]

@Electronic M, maybe you also should take a look in the following link, since this seems to be the ultimative ecu-replacement http://shop.durbahn.de/shop/en/produ...A4te/Motec_ECU
...not looking for the price

[Electronic M]

Originally Posted by Somchai

@Electronic M, maybe you also should take a look in the following link, since this seems to be the ultimative ecu-replacement http://shop.durbahn.de/shop/en/produ...A4te/Motec_ECU
...not looking for the price

Motec is a great ecu, but I don't see anybody spending more money for the ecu, than what they paid for the bike. The ecu is just an overkill. Doing something right doesn't mean overdoing it. Microsquirt does plenty and then more, it runs circles around power commander, bazzaz, and ecu flash The firmware gets updated multiple times a year, and the updates are based on the users wants and needs. You can buy a built ecu, or you can buy the parts, you can also communicate with the ecu via bluetooth, add more inputs/outputs, it caters to diy users, a lot more than motec and many other stand alone ecus.