Leaving again!

[MrAtom]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

After that I rode the bike all summer with no problems. Now I'm confident that if any other problems occur in the future I'll be able to tackle them because I know the bike inside out. Just like you will be with your 650.

This is the attitude to have. Plus, it's much better to tell the story of how you fixed something than to tell the story of how you gave up on something

Originally Posted by Jono

And I am definitely at a low point with this bike. It's always a risk getting a used bike, but for something like this to happen, is just out of the ordinary. Having said that, I don't think I'll ever buy a Suzuki again. I'm learning that I'm not a fan of how they build bikes.

Hope it all works out for you. Keep us updated and take lots of pictures

[Jono]

Originally Posted by MrAtom

Hope it all works out for you. Keep us updated and take lots of pictures

So I am here to keep y'all updated, but I didn't take pictures.

Today I started tearing into the motor. The heads are now off. Pistons removed. But I am now stuck until I can find a M20x1.5 bolt to remove the stator flywheel. I don't want to waste my money on the actual tool which is basically a M20x1.5 bolt so I will be checking a few hardware stores tomorrow. The big stores like Lowes or Home Depot don't carry a bolt of this size. If I have to, I will purchase the tool(bolt) that MotionPro makes. https://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0085

After I get that stator flywheel off there are only a few more steps until it's time to split the crankcase. The service manual says I need the Suzuki crankcase separating tool which is costly.

Does anyone know how difficult it is to split cases without such a tool? If I absolutely need a crankcase separating tool, is there somewhere online I can rent one?

I'll hopefully start taking pictures in the future. And if/when I find what broke in the transmission I'll definitely take some pictures.

[Jono]

Great news! Split the case and found my problem.

[choneofakind]

Huh. Look at that! Good for you, Jono. At least you have time to get it going again before spring. and now you've done something I've not done. I've never split the case on an engine. Jelly.

[oroboros]

Did you end up needing a tool to separate the case?

[Jono]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Huh. Look at that! Good for you, Jono. At least you have time to get it going again before spring. and now you've done something I've not done. I've never split the case on an engine. Jelly.

It's not as fun as it looks! Haha. I'm glad I did it though. I've never had my hands inside of an engine until this project. (Valve adjustments don't count) I've learned a lot and have more to learn.

Originally Posted by oroboros

Did you end up needing a tool to separate the case?

Nope. Not needed. Be careful with a hammer and screwdriver. Then if needed get a 2x4 and start smacking away!


I still don't know if I will be rebuilding this motor or buying a used one. Both are a gamble. And once I have the bike running again I may sell it. I love the SV's engine but I'm not going to put up with these weak ass transmissions. This isn't some rare occurrence, they are known to have crappy transmissions. Had I done my research before buying the bike I probably wouldn't have bought one.

Very undecided at this point. Need to do more research.

[oroboros]

Been there with cars in the past. I was going to say how great it was going to be that you would now a have bike with a rebuilt motor (assuming that you would take the time since your that far into it) but if your planning on selling it... could be a swap would make the job much easier.

[Finesse]

Wow. Sorry to hear this, not what I was expecting.How many miles total are on the bike?

My 03 has 13,400 now, 3k of which are mine and I haven't had a single problem or hiccup :\

[ninjamunky85]

It would suck to put that much work into the bike to just get rid of it, and I don't see the point in getting another engine when you could just have the same problem again.

Your bike your call though

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Finesse

Wow. Sorry to hear this, not what I was expecting.How many miles total are on the bike?

My 03 has 13,400 now, 3k of which are mine and I haven't had a single problem or hiccup :\

A little over 26K on the bike. Less than 500 miles are mine.

The bike's in good shape. It looks like it has only been down once with minor scratches. Always shifted great until that 6th driven gear broke. I'm just glad it broke close to home.

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

It would suck to put that much work into the bike to just get rid of it, and I don't see the point in getting another engine when you could just have the same problem again.

Your bike your call though

I hear ya. I probably won't get rid of the bike. I mean, I want to start riding on the track and this bike is the perfect bike for that. Sooo, I think for now, I will see what kind of deal I can get on a low miles used engine. Slap that in the bike and slowly rebuild my current engine. This way I will hopefully always have a working engine. Haha. And I still get all that experience and knowledge that comes with putting an engine back together. Win-win, right?

[MrAtom]

I dunno about you, but what would keep me from selling it is that once I'm totally familiar with how a specific vehicle (or anything that I've broken/taken apart for that matter) works, I grow kind of sentimentally attached to it. They probably goes away with fixing more things, but I like the vote of confidence that it gives me that I'd probably be able to fix another issue later on.

However, seeing how the bike is built, and knowing of this issue will probably steer me away from buying an SV if I ever upgrade to a bigger bike, but I'll cross that bridge when it gets here.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by Jono

I still don't know if I will be rebuilding this motor or buying a used one. Both are a gamble. And once I have the bike running again I may sell it. I love the SV's engine but I'm not going to put up with these weak ass transmissions. This isn't some rare occurrence, they are known to have crappy transmissions. Had I done my research before buying the bike I probably wouldn't have bought one.

Very undecided at this point. Need to do more research.

I don't know about that.

I've had a SV since 2006, and just bought another. I can't say I've heard much about transmission problems, and I've been active on the main SV forum since I bought my first one.

I know numerous people that track the SV, and if there was a major transmission issue you wouldn't see so many at the track.

Judging from what you read here about all the problems with the Ninja 250, you'd think they were problematic - but they aren't. Most of the issues with any cycle that has been in production for more than a few years can be traced to improper use, lack of maintenance, or improper mechanical work.

As far as SV transmissions go, the most common issue is a missed shift from 5th to 6th when cruising (low RPMs), which can be traced to an overly quick upshift (movement of the lever). I've had it happen a couple of times myself, and it's usually caused by too quick of a tap on the shifter. When the transmission is spinning faster (higher RPMs) it rarely happens, and it has never happened to me during a high RPM shift.

[APEmike]

Have the transmission undercut. Might help a bit. Undercutting the dogs in the up and down direction is what all the road race bikes get. Drag bikes get it done in the up direction only... Helps lock the gears together to reduce the chances of missed shifts and slip-outs.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by APEmike

Have the transmission undercut. Might help a bit. Undercutting the dogs in the up and down direction is what all the road race bikes get. Drag bikes get it done in the up direction only... Helps lock the gears together to reduce the chances of missed shifts and slip-outs.

I'm guessing this is your company? http://www.aperaceparts.com/transmissions.html

Out of curiosity. How much do you charge for this service. I don't think I really need it done because my bike never had any shifting issues. Never popped out of gear or missed shifts.

But if this for some reasons happens again this might be worth trying.

[Hero Danny]

Originally Posted by Jono

Here she is!!! It's not in the bestest condition but for it being 11 years old with 26k miles I think it looks alright.

At first I thought the bike looked weird, but now for some reason I get a nostalgia feeling from looking at it... it's very strange...

Nice find! Enjoy every second of it! I bet you that bike has a lot of personality to fall in love with.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Hero Danny

At first I thought the bike looked weird, but now for some reason I get a nostalgia feeling from looking at it... it's very strange...

Nice find! Enjoy every second of it! I bet you that bike has a lot of personality to fall in love with.

Yeah for the longest time I hated the looks of the SV. But part of that was because I always pictured the ugly round body style in my head.


But once you ride one of these and hear one with that Yoshimura exhaust, looks don't matter. But the 03+ SV's do look better. They aren't a great looking bike, but still look better than my first bike (06 Ninja 250). Haha.

Sometimes a little too much character. Like having a gear in the transmission fail. When it was running though. Man, what a bike!

[Hero Danny]

Originally Posted by Jono

Yeah for the longest time I hated the looks of the SV. But part of that was because I always pictured the ugly round body style in my head.

But once you ride one of these and hear one with that Yoshimura exhaust, looks don't matter. But the 03+ SV's do look better. They aren't a great looking bike, but still look better than my first bike (06 Ninja 250). Haha.

Sometimes a little too much character. Like having a gear in the transmission fail. When it was running though. Man, what a bike!

I definitely don't like the look of the one cylinder, three look so much cooler.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Jono

But once you ride one of these and hear one with that Yoshimura exhaust, looks don't matter.

...and he rags on the pregen. this guuyyyyyy

You should hear mine. No packing left I don't think. braappppppp! It looks and sounds the same kind of ugly.

[Finesse]

Originally Posted by Jono

Yeah for the longest time I hated the looks of the SV. But part of that was because I always pictured the ugly round body style in my head.


But once you ride one of these and hear one with that Yoshimura exhaust, looks don't matter. But the 03+ SV's do look better. They aren't a great looking bike, but still look better than my first bike (06 Ninja 250). Haha.

Sometimes a little too much character. Like having a gear in the transmission fail. When it was running though. Man, what a bike!

god that is such an ugly bike. I REALLY don't like how the 99-02 SV650s look. they're better naked, but the frame still looks chubby and marshmallow-y. i LOVE the look of the 2003+ but am not a huge fan of the half fairing ... all or nothing i say!

hows the project coming along?

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Hero Danny

I definitely don't like the look of the one cylinder, three look so much cooler.

Cool story. You do know the SV is a V-twin, right?

Originally Posted by choneofakind

...and he rags on the pregen. this guuyyyyyy

You should hear mine. No packing left I don't think. braappppppp! It looks and sounds the same kind of ugly.

Hahahaha, Nice!

Originally Posted by Finesse

god that is such an ugly bike. I REALLY don't like how the 99-02 SV650s look. they're better naked, but the frame still looks chubby and marshmallow-y. i LOVE the look of the 2003+ but am not a huge fan of the half fairing ... all or nothing i say!

hows the project coming along?

Agreed, it's way too bubbly. The half fairing really is nice, but it doesn't look great from the side of the bike. But it makes oil changes and other simple maintenance tasks quicker by not having to remove fairings. I actually have the optional side fairings for my bike but they are scratched up pretty good from the previous owner.

Kinda looking on ebay for a nice used motor. I'm in no rush since the weather has been super crappy here. Would like to find something this month if possible but I'm not going to pay stupid amounts of money for a used engine. I'd prefer to find one within a 400 mile radius of my house but don't see that happening. I'll let the ninette world know when I find one.

[Hero Danny]

Originally Posted by Jono

Cool story. You do know the SV is a V-twin, right?

Yes, but only one pipe is visible. And it looks kinda funny lol

[Finesse]

Originally Posted by Jono

Cool story. You do know the SV is a V-twin, right?



Hahahaha, Nice!



Agreed, it's way too bubbly. The half fairing really is nice, but it doesn't look great from the side of the bike. But it makes oil changes and other simple maintenance tasks quicker by not having to remove fairings. I actually have the optional side fairings for my bike but they are scratched up pretty good from the previous owner.

Kinda looking on ebay for a nice used motor. I'm in no rush since the weather has been super crappy here. Would like to find something this month if possible but I'm not going to pay stupid amounts of money for a used engine. I'd prefer to find one within a 400 mile radius of my house but don't see that happening. I'll let the ninette world know when I find one.

did you determine that buying a used motor will be easier/cheaper for you than fixing the one you have?

Originally Posted by Hero Danny

Yes, but only one pipe is visible. And it looks kinda funny lol

this kid .......... smh lol

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Finesse

did you determine that buying a used motor will be easier/cheaper for you than fixing the one you have?



this kid .......... smh lol

Easier, hell yeah! Cheaper, depending on the deal I can find it's possibly cheaper too. A lot of these ebay sellers charge a lot to ship which is why I wish could find one close enough that I could pick it up myself.



I know, right!

[Finesse]

in that case, I hope you can find something decent! I feel like it's a huge risk buying a motor because you have no guarantee that it actually works the way it should. but you gotta do what you gotta do.. at least you still have time before spring

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Finesse

in that case, I hope you can find something decent! I feel like it's a huge risk buying a motor because you have no guarantee that it actually works the way it should. but you gotta do what you gotta do.. at least you still have time before spring

Thanks! There are risks in either choice. Rebuilding is more risky for me. I don't have any experience putting an engine back together. What if for some reason I can't get a good seal when I put the case back together. I won't know till the whole engine is back together. That's a lot of work to find out my engine will always leak oil. Now I'm sure that may not happen. But what if. At least if I buy a used engine with like a guarantee that it will work fine, I can get some of my money back (hopefully) if it turns out it has problems.

I trust the robots that built these engines more than I trust myself. It's as simple as that.

But I'm sure I will eventually rebuild my engine anyways just to see if I can.

[Hero Danny]

Originally Posted by Finesse

this kid .......... smh lol

It's just my opinion. Get over it.

[Finesse]

Originally Posted by Jono

Thanks! There are risks in either choice. Rebuilding is more risky for me. I don't have any experience putting an engine back together. What if for some reason I can't get a good seal when I put the case back together. I won't know till the whole engine is back together. That's a lot of work to find out my engine will always leak oil. Now I'm sure that may not happen. But what if. At least if I buy a used engine with like a guarantee that it will work fine, I can get some of my money back (hopefully) if it turns out it has problems.

I trust the robots that built these engines more than I trust myself. It's as simple as that.

But I'm sure I will eventually rebuild my engine anyways just to see if I can.

I totally understand. that's a good call. see if you can get a guarantee in writing with a signature, that should help you if you run into any problems with a motor you buy

[Finesse]

@Jono any updates?

[sharky nrk]

Originally Posted by Jono

Yeah for the longest time I hated the looks of the SV. But part of that was because I always pictured the ugly round body style in my head.


But once you ride one of these and hear one with that Yoshimura exhaust, looks don't matter. But the 03+ SV's do look better. They aren't a great looking bike, but still look better than my first bike (06 Ninja 250). Haha.

Sometimes a little too much character. Like having a gear in the transmission fail. When it was running though. Man, what a bike!

I must be the only guy that likes the bubbly first gen sv ..... although admittedly I do not know why lol

[Jono]

@Finesse Still waiting to find the right engine. I was very close to buying one last week off eBay, but noticed the front header bolts were broken off in the engine. The seller did not mention this and the pictures almost hid this problem. I contacted the seller asking if that was the case and he confirmed it was. He said he would take down the post and repost it after his shop tried to remove them. I was hoping he would get back in touch with me but never did. So I'm keeping my eyes out for the new posting. I am not totally against getting an engine with these header bolts broken off, but I want them to be exposed enough that I would be able to weld on a bolt to hopefully back them out. I'd rather not have to drill them out.

The thing is, the majority of engines on ebay are over priced. IMO. And a bunch are super crappy looking and over priced. I am almost to the point where I will just get a used, low miles transmission to rebuild. My engine was in great shape before the tranny went kerplunk.

This is where I'm at.

[jkv45]

Have you looked in the For Sale section at SVRider.com for an engine?

[Jono]

@jkv45 I hate using that forum, but I did just look. Didn't see anything... but if you come across someone selling a complete engine, please let me know.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by Jono

I hate using that forum, but I did just look. Didn't see anything... but if you come across someone selling a complete engine, please let me know.

What is it about svrider that you don't like? I've been a member there since 2006. Generally it's a pretty good community, and welcomes new owners.

I'll check around and see what i can find.

[Finesse]

^I feel like any time you ask something on svrider they just tell you go to search it in the forum ..... I'm on there too but I hardly ever post or look at anything


@Jono sorry to hear about difficult search. do you think it would be feasible to just replace the whole transmission? you need a friend who's into bikes and willing to help you out! sometimes moral support helps a lot when you're going to take something apart that you've never seen before. also parts fiches and service manuals!

[Jono]

Originally Posted by jkv45

What is it about svrider that you don't like? I've been a member there since 2006. Generally it's a pretty good community, and welcomes new owners.

I'll check around and see what i can find.

What Finesse said. And then the awful format/styling of the forum turns me off from it. And the ads are everywhere. Just not a fan. But I also have n o interest in joining another forum. This one is hard enough for me to keep up with but I enjoy the community feel of ninjette.

But, yeah, let me know if you see anything.

Originally Posted by Finesse

^I feel like any time you ask something on svrider they just tell you go to search it in the forum ..... I'm on there too but I hardly ever post or look at anything


@Jono sorry to hear about difficult search. do you think it would be feasible to just replace the whole transmission? you need a friend who's into bikes and willing to help you out! sometimes moral support helps a lot when you're going to take something apart that you've never seen before. also parts fiches and service manuals!

Oh yeah. It's very doable. My engine is already ready for a new transmission. The split case is just sitting in the garage. And I have a friend who knows his way around engines so I'm sure we could get it together just fine. I have the service manual downloaded and printed, so again, no issues there.

It's just that buying used transmission shafts is around $100. Then there are all the gaskets which add up to $165 ish. And then the labor involved. I'd be most worried about putting the transmission back together correctly and getting a good seal on the case. I won't know how well it is sealed until I have the engine back together. If it doesn't go so well that involves another tear down and more new gaskets.

But at the rate looking for a new engine is going, rebuilding is looking like the better option.

I need to figure out what years I can use for transmissions. I think I read somewhere that there were slight modifications at one point. Maybe I am dreaming that. Idk.

[jkv45]

I can put you in touch with a guy that deals in SV parts and knows his way around the engine very well.

PM me your email address, and the trans parts you are looking for, and I'll get it to him. He doesn't currently have a complete engine for sale, but he has engines.

If you join SVR you don't get all the ads. I like Ninjette's layout, but SVR was the first forum I joined and don't mind its format. As far as Internet motorcycle forums go, people say it's pretty good overall.

[KawiKid860]

Originally Posted by sharky nrk

I must be the only guy that likes the bubbly first gen sv ..... although admittedly I do not know why lol

The front end is actually somewhat similar to your ZX-6R

[Finesse]

Originally Posted by Jono

I'd be most worried about putting the transmission back together correctly and getting a good seal on the case. I won't know how well it is sealed until I have the engine back together.

do you have a knife sharpening stone? they're not super cheap but they're a pretty foolproof way to get a good seal on new gaskets. I generally scrape all the old gasket off with a razor, clean it with brake parts cleaner, dry it off, then sort of rub the stone around on the mating surface. theoretically the stone will get it as flat as possible.. also sometimes use a little bit of axle grease to get the gaskets to stay in place while I put engine cases back on. not sure what kind of gaskets you'll be using but this works well with metallic and paper ones. I've never had any that I've done come back because of leaks, but they've mostly been valve cover gaskets or engine case (clutch or alternator cover) gaskets.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by Finesse

^I feel like any time you ask something on svrider they just tell you go to search it in the forum ..... I'm on there too but I hardly ever post or look at anything

My older brother ran into this issue with his jeep's forum. Someone on the forum straight up told him to google his issue when he had already tried that several times. He eventually figured it out but it was still pretty annoying for him

[Jono]

Update! Just bought a clean looking used engine off eBay. The seller has a great reputation and has a 30 day return policy. Got it for a great price too. $180 for the complete engine with throttle bodies as well. The posting said it ran and shifted just fine before they stripped the bike down. It's a gamble but for the price I couldn't say no. Oh, and the engine is from an 06 SV and has like 18,500 miles on it. Not as low as I wanted but again, the price. Plus I bought this bike with over 26,000 miles on it. Even if I can get 10,000 miles out of this used engine I'd be satisfied.

Bad news, the front header bolts are broken off on the engine. That may pose a challenge. I am hoping that there is enough stud left to weld on nuts in hopes of backing those studs out. We shall see. If that fails to work, I'll drill out the studs to install helicoils. And if that doesn't work, I'll use my front cylinder head off the old engine.

Originally Posted by jkv45

I can put you in touch with a guy that deals in SV parts and knows his way around the engine very well.

PM me your email address, and the trans parts you are looking for, and I'll get it to him. He doesn't currently have a complete engine for sale, but he has engines.

Thanks, if I end up rebuilding my old engine I'll go on the SV forum and ask about used transmission shafts.

Originally Posted by Finesse

do you have a knife sharpening stone? they're not super cheap but they're a pretty foolproof way to get a good seal on new gaskets. I generally scrape all the old gasket off with a razor, clean it with brake parts cleaner, dry it off, then sort of rub the stone around on the mating surface. theoretically the stone will get it as flat as possible.. also sometimes use a little bit of axle grease to get the gaskets to stay in place while I put engine cases back on. not sure what kind of gaskets you'll be using but this works well with metallic and paper ones. I've never had any that I've done come back because of leaks, but they've mostly been valve cover gaskets or engine case (clutch or alternator cover) gaskets.

I'm not worried about clutch and magneto cover gaskets. Those are no problem. It's the actual case I'm worried about. You have to use Yamabond or the like, and make a seal. There isn't a paper gasket on the crankcase.