Knee Dragging

[Raybot]

so my brother and I went to Deals Gap this evening (him on his concourse and me on my 95 ninja 250) and I see many people there dragging their knees through turns. my goal one day is to do this! my toe drug the ground a couple times and I tend to ride with the ball of my foot on the peg so my toes aren't hanging over too too much. I've heard you can lean far enough to drag your knee before you can drag your toe...
any input suggestions or tips?

[spooph]

Twist of the Wrist 1 + 2, proper safety gear and lots and lots of track time...

[edbro]

Originally Posted by spooph

Twist of the Wrist 1 + 2, proper safety gear and lots and lots of track time...

+1, the only safe way to learn it is on the track.

[Raybot]

I dont know of any tracks near me... Ive heard of people practicing in empty parking lots...

[BIGT94z]

I'm getting some pretty good angles on the street. Next season I would love to go to a track day class and get some pointers. Never try to dram knee on the street imo
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[spooph]

haha, well then, Twist of the wrist 1 + 2, and full gear in a parking lot. Full gear = leathers, boots, gauntlet gloves, helmet and preferably a spine protector. As long as no cars will be entering your space you can learn alot about your bike in about 30ftx30ft. Circles and figure eights both counter leaned and counter steered to the extremes will get you very comfortable on the bike, and your knee down, and if you're not careful, will also slide the bike. So be careful.

[austexjg]

It only looks good when doing it properly on the track.

There are videos of people on youtube practicing in parking lots - their form is horrible. Draggin' a knee is all about cornering speed, not looking cool on the streets. The track or a little used turn on a decent road in the country. Road conditions are factors to proper form, but then again I'm all about proper form and speed. If you just want to drag a knee while hanging off the side of the bike, a parking lot will do, but look around for patches of loose gravel first.

I just got through TotW II - decent info., but lacked precise details on body postitioning and form - still trying to digest the "Pivot Point" turning and utilizing the outside points.

Have not picked up TotW I after reading some reviews of the two books - should I get it, and does it cover any topics not in II?

[Flashmonkey]

Do you just want to be able to drag your knee...or do you want to be able to do this properly?

Look up youtube vids of people dragging knee on the streets and compare that to what you see on MotoGP or AMA. World of difference.

[Raybot]

I would love to do it properly, but I figure I have to start somewhere...

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by Raybot

I would love to do it properly, but I figure I have to start somewhere...

A track...IMO. Trying this out on the street without someone who knows what he/she is doing giving you proper coaching is just a way to develop crappy habits. Habits that will have to be broken if you ever find yourself on a track trying to do things properly.

There's more to dragging knee than just dragging your knee.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Flashmonkey

There's more to dragging knee than just dragging your knee.

I'm shocked!! You mean racers at the track don't drag their knees so they can look cool to the other racers... you're not cool (I mean really cool) unless you're dragging knee on a sport bike, right?

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by kkim

I'm shocked!! You mean racers at the track don't drag their knees so they can look cool to the other racers... you're not cool (I mean really cool) unless you're dragging knee on a sport bike, right?

It's only cool if you have a ciagrette dangling out of your mouth while doing it.

[CC Cowboy]

Draggin a knee on the street is a good way to break your knee.

[Alex]

Why stop at knee? Dragging elbows while 2-up is what all the cool kids are up to...

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Alex

Why stop at knee? Dragging elbows while 2-up is what all the cool kids are up to...

doh!

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by Alex

Rider: "What the....why does it feel like my elbow is dragging?"

Passenger: "I dunno, let me check it out..."

[JeffM]

Don't drag anything

[Raybot]

lol. thats crazy

[TrueFader]

Originally Posted by Alex

Why stop at knee? Dragging elbows while 2-up is what all the cool kids are up to...

is that doug chandler and his kid?

[ally99]

Originally Posted by Alex

Why stop at knee? Dragging elbows while 2-up is what all the cool kids are up to...

OMG, um, wow!?!

[Alex]

Originally Posted by TrueFader

is that doug chandler and his kid?

I believe it's Michael Earnest (fast AFM guy, proprietor of Pacific Track Time). Not sure who's on the back...

[spooph]

Brilliant! 2 up and hauling balls! One of my dreams.

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here and say that as I see the racers, both the local scene and the big money (MotoGP, etc), each rider has a drastically different style.... I just watched Driven, a docu-rama about the MotoGP, and it affirmed some of my opinions. Every rider is different. Their body is different, their mind is different, and although learning bad habits is a risk, I think a rider has to figure out how his/her body best responds.

For instance, when I learned to drag a knee, I wanted to know what it felt like. I'm a bit jumpy, so I thought I'd freak out if my knee touched the ground.... So I went to a parking lot to try it out. And I jumped at the first touch. So I simply needed the parking lot (at the track, LOL), to get me used to touching the knee to the ground. I then played with body position and feeling what it felt like scootching my butt off the seat more and more. What I discovered is that dragging a knee feels weird, unless I'm all the way off the bike. I figured out what it feels like to be planted. Then I took it to the track, 30 yards away and it made sense. This was after trying it many times in other parking lots.

Had I tried to figure out how to get a knee down while going around the track, I would have freaked out and probably crashed. Now, I have added that to my skill set, and can now start working on when and where I use it (on and off the track). Most of the time, there is no reason to lean off the ninja, especially on the open road. It's so light, and so forgiving on the road that it's just not necessary....

Raybot, the biggest piece of advice I think any rider can provide another is this: Patience. Practice. Perseverance. Just keep after it, and gobble up as much info as you can....

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by spooph

Brilliant! 2 up and hauling balls!

How do you know the passenger is a guy? In full leathers and a full face helmet it could be a girl.

[Raybot]

Thank you spooph! This is all great info! That is exactly why I thought about doing it in a parking lot first. the first time my toe hit the ground going through the dragon it freaked me out a bit. I will get it one day. I don't really have many places to practice around here, and I don't know where the closest track is...
I hear people talkin about trying to do wheelies and all that... I'd rather learn to drag a knee than do a wheelie..
thanks again!

[backinthesaddleagain]

I prefer wheelying while dragging a knee. It helps with the manhole covers that stick a couple inches out of the ground. Just have to be careful as when the front wheel comes back down and compresses the fork you have to watch that the knee doesn't drop into a pot hole.

[danstoppable]

Hey guys, I don't say much but... here's my opinion. Once you do start dragging bits, you can then sit down and look back through the varying angles burned into your toe sliders and knee sliders and see what you're doing wrong. I, for example, have realized that I'm curling the outside of my foot out too far, not my toes directly. This is affecting my knee, butt, spine, shoulders, etc... I think it's due to the fact that I'm so used to a different seating position when at the angle of attack (I have a recently broken MV Agusta Brutale that I used for all my high speed fun). I'm nearing 3000miles on my bike, so I've yet to fully ingrain this one versus my old bike.

I also blame the stock handlebar and rear set... set up. I need to get some woodcrafts, it seems.

Anyways, it's rather fun playing detective on the adrenaline high of high speed racing. In fact, that'd be a rather interesting premise for a book: a detective that solves crimes on the high speed roads of the future... or something. Maybe with jet-powered bikes, too, eh?

[shaun2891]

IMO dragging your knees on the street is just a stunt, much like wheelies. it really doesnt make you any quicker through the hills. adnd from what ive been told if ur knee hits one of those cats eye markers on the road it hurts like hell

[TenaciousD]

There's no reason to drag anything on the street. Just makes you look like a squid and attracts unwelcome attention from cops. Save it for the track!

[spooph]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

How do you know the passenger is a guy? In full leathers and a full face helmet it could be a girl.

I don't believe I stated if it's a guy or a girl. Does it much matter?

Raybot, yo welcome!

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by shaun2891

IMO dragging your knees on the street is just a stunt, much like wheelies. it really doesnt make you any quicker through the hills. adnd from what ive been told if ur knee hits one of those cats eye markers on the road it hurts like hell

That's wrong. This is one of them funny subjects where I think too many people wanna be on the "correct" side of things.

I'll just go ahead and say this... I've followed many riders up in the mountains on the heavy twisties that bad-talk riders that put knee to tarmac. I've watched them go through corners with technique so bad that it made me back off more because I was waiting for them to go down (but that knee wasn't even close to the road!)... and yeah, my knee was grinding away on the road, my body was relaxed but I'm the dangerous one

[JMcDonald]

I agree with some of the above in saying that most people who are "dragging knee" are doing it terribly wrong. The idea is NOT just to stick out your knee, which is what a lot of people think. The goal is to move your entire body toward the inside of the bike, so the bike itself can be more vertical for the same overal center of gravity. This lends to better cornering behavior and greater traction. You can get a lot of your weight off to the inside of the bike without even sticking your knee out, and in reality that is where you should start. Sticking your knee out is just the last step in getting your center of gravity as far to the inside as possible, and in getting your hips pointed more into the turn, if I'm not mistaken.

Here's a perfect example. Watch how the rider tends to shift his upper body to the outside of the turn (obvious because his head ends up near the outside mirror) just so he can shift his hips and knee toward the inside. The net effect is there is basically zero shift in his actual center of the gravity, so he isn't doing anything but wasting effort. That isn't to say he is a bad rider or whatever, or that he has no experience or whatever, just pointing out what is clearly (even to a just-learning newb) incorrect position.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S4RFbm3DFw


But yeah, in a nutshell, the entire goal is to get your weight to the inside of the bike in order to keep it as upright as possible.
http://stason.org/TULARC/vehicles/mo...side-Knee.html

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/fe...ging/index.htm
"Having their torso on the high side of the bike not only neutralized the mass of their hips being off the bike, but actually raised the combined bike/rider CG-thus defeating the technique's main purpose."

[SV-Mark]

I hope to drag my knee one day, if you can drag your knee you are fast