February 1st, 2013, 04:18 PM | #1 |
L8APEX
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Captive rear brake hanger
So I got sick of the reaR brake always falling down and being a general pain in the ass when the wheel was off. So I sloted the hanger and stuck a bolt and collar in the swingarm to hold it in place!
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February 1st, 2013, 04:21 PM | #2 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Jason
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cool, this is a lot better than me zip tying it to the swingarm.
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February 1st, 2013, 04:21 PM | #3 |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
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But there's an easier way without doing any of those mods...Richard (RaceBikeRentals) showed me how but I forget cuz I'm old. Hopefully he'll see this and chime in.
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February 1st, 2013, 05:12 PM | #4 |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
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Not so sure I'd want to put braking forces into a structurally compromised part. Think about how the pregen needed an extra bracing arm between it and the swingarm for that caliper!
I just put the axle in backwards. It makes things a whole lot easier. It may come from the factory inserted through the left but even the service manual says to insert from the right. |
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February 1st, 2013, 05:41 PM | #5 | |
wat
Name: wat
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Quote:
i like the idea. i think what jon is talking about is if you flip it over and turn it like 20 minutes, it sets on top of the swing arm perfectly without hanging and putting stress on the line. but i kinda like this idea since it should making putting the rear wheel on and off a hell of a lot easier since you dont have to constantly line up that stupid brake mount... it is easier, right?
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February 1st, 2013, 05:45 PM | #6 | |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
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With the Sportisi swingarm cover, my brake like goes over-under instead of under-over with a holder on the swingarm. |
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February 1st, 2013, 05:50 PM | #7 | |
L8APEX
Name: CRA#33 EXPERT
Location: Mankato, MN
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Quote:
Brake forces are applied to the top side of the bracket so it won't matter, think about the direction of the torque applied. The pre-gen bracket doesn't brace on the swingarm the same way, there is no channel built in to it so they have to use an old school torque arm set-up....Go look at some diagrams. Also every race bike I've been around is set up to always use your dominant hand to hold and locate the wheel while using the other hand to push in the axle...Have you changed many tires?
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February 2nd, 2013, 12:23 AM | #8 | ||
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
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Yes, actually, and almost always by myself. I find it far easier to align all the spacers with the caliper holder without dropping anything if I partially insert the axle such that it holds the caliper holder while I position everything else. Once in position with all the spacers, I just push it through. |
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February 2nd, 2013, 09:13 AM | #9 | |
L8APEX
Name: CRA#33 EXPERT
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Quote:
Also whats hidden inside the tab is a battery terminal nut from a big YTX20, a big blocky thing, thats what the bolt is threaded into. It takes up a lot of space inside the tab area to act as a brace and tie it all together. I'll get a pic up if I can.
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February 4th, 2013, 10:17 AM | #10 |
wat
Name: wat
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there is no room, for it to turn it would have to tear the tab completely off of the swingarm. a hole through the tab wouldn't change that. you are talking about complete structural failure before that thing would tear off.
i donno about you, but i don't use my rear brake hard enough to bend the swing arm
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February 4th, 2013, 11:06 AM | #11 | |
L8APEX
Name: CRA#33 EXPERT
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Quote:
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February 4th, 2013, 01:41 PM | #12 | |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
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February 4th, 2013, 03:11 PM | #13 | |
wat
Name: wat
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think about the amount of force the rear brake can apply.... its not very much when you think about the amount of force it takes to lock up the rear tire.
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February 4th, 2013, 04:59 PM | #14 | |
CPT Falcon
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February 4th, 2013, 05:07 PM | #15 |
wat
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i'm going to try this one more time...
where does the tab go when it "fails" and starts to bend in your hypothetical failure? from your description, it magically disappears. allowing the brace to rotate. this doesn't happen in real life. the pressure is put on the alignment tab vertically. in order to bend the alignment tab down like the brake mount would have to do in order to rotate, you would need to bend the corner of that tab as well (or bust it off completely but thats even more work) that's like 8th inch steel by the way. the vertical support between the two horizontal sides of the alignment tab (the part that has the hole in it now) does very little to support the inside edge of the horizontal side of the alignment tab. the forces you are talking about to break that tab... you would rip the swing arm apart before you could apply that much force using the brakes.
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February 4th, 2013, 05:43 PM | #16 |
CVMA #92
Name: Bryan
Location: socal
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Thats a sweet idea. Can you give a better description (or mcmaster link) to that collar?
That hole does not significantly effect the strength of the tab. |
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February 4th, 2013, 05:49 PM | #17 | |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
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Quote:
Fold up flat against the swingarm. Chopping off the top and inner faces like you describe would create an L-shaped piece supporting all the weight on one suspended platform. If overloaded, a shape like that will usually bend into a V and then flatten against the surface it is attached to unless it is stronger than the structure it is attached to. That's not likely the case (both appear to be steel). With the inner face structurally compromised, the top face can no longer share as much load with the bottom face without the inner face buckling. If this happens, both upper and lower faces can bend in a cascade if there is enough force to bend even one side. First, the top part bearing load gives as the structurally compromised connecting piece (inner face) twists. Once flattened, the full forces are now applied to the bottom face until it folds as well. To imagine that the inner face does not transfer force to the bottom face to increase the amount of load it can take is to ignore why it isn't a simple L-shape in the first place. I doubt this will help visualize it, but here: Code:
_ _| |_ _ _| \_ _|\__ _\\__ ==--_ |
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February 5th, 2013, 08:08 AM | #18 | |
L8APEX
Name: CRA#33 EXPERT
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Quote:
This is a basic picture of a collared washer, obviously the one I used had slightly different dimensions...but you get the point.
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February 5th, 2013, 08:13 AM | #19 | |
L8APEX
Name: CRA#33 EXPERT
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--Edit...We'll have to wait for my rear rotor to get back from the machinist, I'm having him do a little "structure compromising" if you know what I mean.
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www.joemillersmoderngarage.com www.starr-cycle.com ***The most important concept of science isn't memorizing facts, it's observation of phenomena.*** |
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February 5th, 2013, 08:23 AM | #20 |
L8APEX
Name: CRA#33 EXPERT
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I drilled and tapped the steer stops in the bottom triple for adjust-ability and less distance from lock to lock last night. I wonder how much I compromised the structural integrity... They're M5x0.8 in case anybody is wondering..
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February 5th, 2013, 08:28 AM | #21 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Looking to put on more aggressive clip-ons without bonking the starter button in the pits?
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February 5th, 2013, 08:30 AM | #22 | |
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The bracket is not weaker for forward braking, but it is for backward braking. No, the welded part is not weaker because the hole; it acts like a column between the two sides in contact with the bracket. Columns fail by buckling first.
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February 5th, 2013, 08:33 AM | #23 |
L8APEX
Name: CRA#33 EXPERT
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--True. I gotta make sure I stay away from going backwards on the track!
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February 5th, 2013, 08:42 AM | #24 |
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You can go backwards, just don't brake too hard.
Why the mod to the tops?
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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February 5th, 2013, 08:43 AM | #25 | ||
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
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I'm simply responding to specific things like "a hole through the tab wouldn't change that" or "where does the tab go when it 'fails' ... in your hypothetical failure?". |
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February 5th, 2013, 11:23 AM | #26 |
L8APEX
Name: CRA#33 EXPERT
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Yes, the steering stops are for keeping the clipons from hitting the race bodywork. I've already trimmed a bunch of the fiberglass but have wanted to do this for a while.
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February 5th, 2013, 01:02 PM | #27 |
CVMA / AFM / M1GP #250
Name: Steve
Location: Los Angeles
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I had to do this as well... but did it way more ghetto. Just stuck some wheel weights onto the steering stops. Saved my thumb from getting mashed between the tank and the clipons in a tankslapper!
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February 5th, 2013, 01:34 PM | #28 |
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+1
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February 5th, 2013, 05:15 PM | #29 |
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February 5th, 2013, 08:58 PM | #30 |
L8APEX
Name: CRA#33 EXPERT
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Vertical mill. You could use a drill press in a pinch with the right tooling and a little screw vice attachment.
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