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Old January 19th, 2021, 05:04 PM   #161
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should not be hard with pods on. ok i will do it. let you know tomorrow.
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Old January 19th, 2021, 05:58 PM   #162
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these carbs were sent twice to gordon. they are factory new. he has gone thru them twice over. i will not go into the carbs again!
how long have they been sitting since? Fuel drained? Even so, left over residual fuel may have varnished. I'd pull the bowls and assure float valves and seats are in fact clean/clear able to fully "float" and seal. No way to know for sure without inspection. Dunno, some possible clean up action may be called for.

To assure wet carbs survive long term shelf storage, ideally fuel should be drained and any/all residual fuel blown out using compressed air, jets, pilot screws removed. As we know, the smallest circuits are prone to varnish, doesn't take much fuel to do this either.

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Old January 19th, 2021, 06:04 PM   #163
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i drained bowls over 6 months ago. soon as i was done with valvetrain and mechanical cam chain adjuster(didn’t fix problem) i drained the bowls
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Old January 19th, 2021, 06:08 PM   #164
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let me do slide test and float bowl drain level test. will let y’all know tomorrow.
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Old January 19th, 2021, 06:39 PM   #165
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Hope that's just excess petrol and not oil leaking in there...
I don't really think oil is the problem... it just looks like a fouled 2-stroke plug.
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Old January 20th, 2021, 01:22 PM   #166
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jim, that plug is not even in there right now I’m using a spare plug that I had. fuel bowls left and right are exactly the same. about 40cc
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Old January 20th, 2021, 01:29 PM   #167
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next test is squirt some petrol in right cylinder and see if it runs.
after while, inspect both plugs again.
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Old January 20th, 2021, 01:41 PM   #168
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slides left and right normal drop at same speed
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Old January 20th, 2021, 01:41 PM   #169
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I have new plugs coming so I’m gonna go that route.
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Old January 20th, 2021, 01:51 PM   #170
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slides left and right normal drop at same speed
good, no ripped diaphragms.
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Old January 20th, 2021, 02:05 PM   #171
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yes, that is good. i put on green bikes coil. inverted towers on both side so green lug is on bottom. red wire going to each green lug. no effect
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Old January 20th, 2021, 03:33 PM   #172
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yes, that is good. i put on green bikes coil. inverted towers on both side so green lug is on bottom. red wire going to each green lug. no effect
Thanks to great site Jim posted! With strong battery, good harness, fresh plugs, I don't think 15% variation in spark-strength is going to make difference here.

Pretty sure this is all fuel-related.
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Old January 20th, 2021, 03:59 PM   #173
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As long as there isn't some really gross error, like L and R ignition is swapped, I agree.
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Old January 20th, 2021, 04:02 PM   #174
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i will drain tank. had stabil marine in it. fill with fresh gas. i will do plug swap first. if both fail, i send carbs back to gordon for the 3rd time
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Old January 20th, 2021, 04:03 PM   #175
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As long as there isn't some really gross error, like L and R ignition is swapped, I agree.
you mean like harness or coils?
i don’t understand. coils have black/green lug, so i assume it will work on both sides
harness impossible to be wired or mounted wrong. nothing will plug up. left side of front harness plugs into radiator
right side has ground connector where fan switch mounts.
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Old January 20th, 2021, 04:15 PM   #176
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i do not have front fairing mounted./ headlights plugged in, i do not think this would make a difference
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Old January 21st, 2021, 01:51 PM   #177
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new plugs installed. had to use starter fluid to get it cranked. cyn 2 still dead.
verified spark again on new plugs. healthy spark coming from both coils
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Old January 21st, 2021, 07:40 PM   #178
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Alright good testing!

You've confirmed got good spark with new plugs. So we can rule out previous plugs as contributing. And we can rule out all electronics. Do not modify anything with harness or electronics.

Now we can assume ALL issues are fuel-related. Givens:
petcock vacuum good
petcock opens OK
float-valves OK
float-bowls fill OK


1. "had to use starter fluid to get it cranked."
- So it didn't start with choke full-on?
- Didn't fire on either cylinder?
- What was ambient air-temperature?

2. "cyn 2 still dead."
- Even with spraying starter-fluid, wouldn't run?
- cold header pipe?

Ok, what does new spark-plugs look like now? Although engine may not have run enough to determine anything by looking at them.
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Old January 21st, 2021, 11:46 PM   #179
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also, please post close-up photo of old plugs. I assume rich oil fouling on #2 was from previous configuration with bad harness?

What brand and model are new plugs?
What plug-gap did you use?

This seems similar to this other case with very unlikely issue.
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...27#post1281427
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Old January 22nd, 2021, 12:01 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by maverick9611 View Post
you mean like harness or coils?
i don’t understand. coils have black/green lug, so i assume it will work on both sides
harness impossible to be wired or mounted wrong. nothing will plug up. left side of front harness plugs into radiator
right side has ground connector where fan switch mounts.
Hmm, other than fan-switch is 2-terminal connector on left side...

Left-coil trigger wire is black? flywheel side of bike
Right-coil trigger wire is green? clutch side of bike
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Old January 24th, 2021, 02:38 AM   #181
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Hmm, other than fan-switch is 2-terminal connector on left side...

Left-coil trigger wire is black? flywheel side of bike
Right-coil trigger wire is green? clutch side of bike
yup left is black/red
right is green/red
i drained gas tank and will drain bowls. refill with nonethanol gas and will test when i get off from work today. let’s say i do this and same effect. is it possible bike is out of time. i verified everything when replacing shims. remember i did put another camshaft position sensor on too(used)
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Old January 24th, 2021, 03:01 AM   #182
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Wouldn't hurt to check cam-timing. Doesn't explain bad cylinder switching from left to right though...

I'm worried with new data from other thread that bad plugs are a thing with new-gens. When he switched from new plugs to old ones fixed the issue. Haven't responded with which brands & model those plugs were though.

1. Which brand & model are your new plugs? Have you tried setting gap to 0.025-0.028" ?

2. Also do you have any really old plugs that you've used on another bike that you can confirm works 100%? Then try them on this bike.
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Old January 24th, 2021, 09:28 AM   #183
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using ngk cr8e
drained tank/bowls refilled with non ethanol gas
restarted no effect/no change.
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Old January 24th, 2021, 09:30 AM   #184
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i will pull plugs take picture/ check gaps.
how is this happening when i fuel/air/spark?
why won’t it fire?
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Old January 24th, 2021, 09:38 AM   #185
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i will pull plugs take picture/ check gaps.
how is this happening when i fuel/air/spark?
why won’t it fire?
I can't remember... have you checked the compression?
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Old January 24th, 2021, 10:18 AM   #186
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I can't remember... have you checked the compression?
yes, that’s one of the first things i did. it passed was in middle of spec
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Old January 24th, 2021, 10:20 AM   #187
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gaps are good .026
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Old January 24th, 2021, 02:16 PM   #188
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i will pull plugs take picture/ check gaps.
how is this happening when i fuel/air/spark?
why won’t it fire?
yeah, that's odd part...
We know right side was working.
Nothing should've changed on that side.

Having to use starter fluid to get it started would seem to indicate lack of petrol.
However, fouled plug shows too much petrol.
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Old February 1st, 2021, 01:06 PM   #189
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a small victory

just back from rolex 24.
i put stick coils on and used starting fluid to fire it up. both cylinders are firing and in operation. pilot jets need adjustments. will work on that during the week.
let it idle for 5 min to make sure all ether was gone.
so why is cyn#2 running now?
i did see a post about coils and being properly grounded. any thoughts?
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Old February 1st, 2021, 02:28 PM   #190
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just back from rolex 24.
i put stick coils on and used starting fluid to fire it up. both cylinders are firing and in operation. pilot jets need adjustments. will work on that during the week.
let it idle for 5 min to make sure all ether was gone.
so why is cyn#2 running now?
i did see a post about coils and being properly grounded. any thoughts?
Yes, secondary-coils are grounded through mounting-bolt. If they don't have good ground there, won't have good spark. Since you swapped in coils from green bike, issue is most likely with mounting-surface on motor-mount. Although bolt-threads should make plenty of contact.

I thought you tested for spark and you had spark on both? And after swapping coils from green bike?

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Old February 16th, 2021, 01:58 PM   #191
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i have both cylinders firing. still wants to die with roll of throttle. best rpm i can get to is 3800. i set both pilots at 3 turns out. im gonna send these carbs back for the 3rd time. pretty pissed.
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Old July 17th, 2021, 09:36 PM   #192
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carbs goin back on. lets see what happens
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Old July 28th, 2021, 06:25 AM   #193
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Old July 28th, 2021, 09:10 AM   #194
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still looking at the carbs. work and other bikes have been keeping me busy. will try this weekend.
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Old August 26th, 2021, 04:55 AM   #195
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What I am seeing in the video is cam timing... but you have said many times that it is right... but it is still doing it ! ... it looks like it's at least 1 tooth off maybe 2 teeth off on the cam timing....
Yes it can jump a tooth during a ride and you get a sudden symptom , it's unlikely but it can happen. I'm betting on cam timing or carb mods that went too far... but ducattiman said they were in good shape so that leaves me with the cams being out of time...
what ever the cause I see blow back from the carbs meaning that piston is coming up when the valve is still open.... it's not a 2 stroke ...it's not supposed to do that ! LOL... that would cause the slides to flutter and give a poor running engine every where on the RPM range.... it's cam timing!.... triple check the marks on the cams not the white marks the "stamp marks" they have to be perfect.... .... if that is it, then why did it jump out of time during a ride ???
cam chain tensioner incorrectly set or stuck ? ....I've seen cam chain tensioners stuck because the owner tightened the bolt to tightly maring the slide rod and it would not extend beyond that point.
good luck ! I hope you find it ! that is a puzzler indeed !
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Old August 26th, 2021, 08:32 AM   #196
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I never believed it was ever the carbs. although they were rebuilt 3 times. still looking at them on my bookshelf freshly back from ductiman some months back. I did buy a spare set of used cams from a second generation Ninja. I think I will put those in and try it. if you read the post I hit some humongous deep potholes at night heading up to the devil's whip. that's when the problem started. it has a manual cam chain tensioner on it now. I have so much going on with my other bikes/job that ninja gets left by the wayside.
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Old August 26th, 2021, 03:23 PM   #197
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it's very unlikely ,but possible that you've lost a tooth on the crank end of the timing chain....
You have a set of extremely ODD symptoms with that machine !
1. Not reving high almost means not enough fuel being delivered.
2. spitting back through the carburetor can mean, too much gas or valve timing.
3. it ran good and while running started running poorly. (failure in action)
...
You've already tried the spark possibility , no change.
You've eliminated the carb possibility, no change
You've got good compression...
through the process of elimination
that only leaves mechanical parts.....
the cams look good and there really in no good way to check for sticky valves
.... to me that points to the cam chain and it's components.
Yes a over head cam can jump out a tooth run poor and jump back and run great.... a super confusing issue but I have seen it happen.
....
after the tear down and re assembly and subsequent testing , are you SURE
you are using the right timing mark on the fly wheel ? and the cams with their marks.... they can't be close they have to be exact ! you can't hurry through that bit and get it right. ( well, I can't LOL)
keep working through using the process of elimination.... that process has never failed me yet in all my years !
.....
Bob.......
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Old August 26th, 2021, 04:01 PM   #198
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yes on alot of those questions. i'm headin to the dragon next week so it will remain on the back burner.
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Old March 30th, 2022, 02:15 AM   #199
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i have used set of 08 cams to try. getting ready to donate the bike to a home. i just don’t have the time to work on it
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Old September 24th, 2022, 03:57 AM   #200
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Name: maverick9611
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sold it for a $1.00 to one of the guys in my mountainrunner group. he is promptly taking it to the shop. i did buy new carb boots as we never tried that and i have a set of used 08-12 cams to swap in. curious to see what they found. i gave him lots of extra's and riding gear too. tyga race exhaust going to danno.
i will post the dealer's finding when i know. other than that, this saga has ended.
all i have left is the guzzi norge and my aprilia dorsoduro. cheers guys. thanx to everyone that helped and tried to get red back on the road.
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