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Old September 21st, 2020, 08:53 AM   #41
Onekallo
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Almost there. Had them set WAY too high.
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Old September 21st, 2020, 11:33 AM   #42
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Nope, not too high, just about perfect.


Like this:


Now this is too high:



Float-height shouldn't matter one bit when pilot-screws are all way in. ALL petrol flow should be stopped in that position. Fact that yours will start and run with screws all way in shows something's wrong internally.
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Old September 21st, 2020, 12:20 PM   #43
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MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
(SNIP)

Float-height shouldn't matter one bit when pilot-screws are all way in. ALL petrol flow should be stopped in that position. Fact that yours will start and run with screws all way in shows something's wrong internally.
As Danno said - something isn't assembled or adjusted correctly.

Either you are missing the "collar"/Needle Jet or the Jet Needles are not sitting in the slides correctly and are being held out of the Main Jet when they should not be. Not sure exactly how the Enrichener Circuit works, but that could be involved as well.

Fuel is being dumped in from somewhere else besides the Idle Circuit.

Any other ideas anyone?
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Old September 21st, 2020, 01:11 PM   #44
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MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17
"Had them set WAY too high."

Note the use of the word "had". Some clarity needed...OP is the pic taken AFTER correction? Those levels are fine.

Jeez, some o' those pics look awful familiar, @DannoXYZ

OP how about a pic of both carbs looking inward from the air filter side, eh? Slides, needles intact.
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Old September 21st, 2020, 02:23 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
"collar"
You mean someone who rebuild the carbs possible lost those buggers ?

It's very easy, I remember I got those sliding out on me when I did not expect them but luckily I had a clean table with some fabric on it so they just stayed on my table but I see how those can be easily lost and the person not even noticing it.
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Old September 21st, 2020, 03:08 PM   #46
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MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17
standard procedure should include accounting for presence of *every* single part during careful assembly process.
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Old September 21st, 2020, 07:23 PM   #47
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Yes, they WERE way too high. Ended up leaving them as they are in the picture attached.

Definitely an improvement on cold start.

Added enrichener as you all had suggested. Easily able to control the RPM. Had to go straight home after work so I didn’t get a chance to fully warm the bike and adjust mixture screws.

When I had them off today to set the fuel level I pulled the slides, needles, and made sure all jets and passageways were clear and to spec. All washers and spacers present. Everything working smooth.

I set mixture screws at 2.5 turns when I had them all apart as well.

Hoping to get out for a ride on Wednesday, get the bike fully warmed up, and dial it all the way in.


If it is idling smooth at 1300+/- after warmed up, then I will adjust mixture to the happy ratio between hanging up with a throttle blip vs dying below 1300+/- after the blip; correct?
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Old September 22nd, 2020, 06:18 AM   #48
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MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
Check the sync as well.
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Old September 22nd, 2020, 06:24 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onekallo View Post
(SNIP)
If it is idling smooth at 1300+/- after warmed up, then I will adjust mixture to the happy ratio between hanging up with a throttle blip vs dying below 1300+/- after the blip; correct?
Not really.

After warm-up and checking sync, adjust the Idle Mixture Screws to get the highest RPMs, then go back and adjust the idle speed to 1300. It might be a good idea to go back and recheck the sync after making the initial adjustment. If a change is needed, go back and readjust the mixture screws again.

I like to make it about 1/8 turn richer (out) than the highest RPM to get a smoother transition, but for starters just get the highest.

Temperature changes, and the change in fuel blends that go with it, will alter the idle speed and mixture, so the idle mixture adjustment is something that does change at times.
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Old September 22nd, 2020, 09:45 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
After warm-up and checking sync, adjust the Idle Mixture Screws to get the highest RPMs, then go back and adjust the idle speed to 1300..
Ok great: and as previously mentioned that "highest rpm" setting is 1500-1800 rpm where it will run smooth, re check sync, and then adjust down to 1300ish
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Old September 22nd, 2020, 12:26 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onekallo View Post
Ok great: and as previously mentioned that "highest rpm" setting is 1500-1800 rpm where it will run smooth, re check sync, and then adjust down to 1300ish
Note that this is 2 separate adjustments.

1. "highest idle" mixture setting will have any randomly variable RPM depending upon what idle-speed screw is set to. Ignore actual RPM when making this adjustment. Just set mixture-screws to "highest idle" speed, whatever that may be. Then add 1/8th turn.

2. repeat for other carb.

3. THEN, FINALLY, make final idle-speed setting to ~1300 with idle-screw.

4. Use choke for cold-starts and adjust choke as necessary to change idling speed as bike warms up.


Due to your short commute, try getting in at least one long ride during week. Fully warming-up is important to boil off water condensation from crankcase and oil.
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Old September 22nd, 2020, 01:29 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Note that this is 2 separate adjustments.

1. "highest idle" mixture setting will have any randomly variable RPM depending upon what idle-speed screw is set to. Ignore actual RPM
So how would you describe highest idle if it is not RPM related?

Excuse my ignorance, as I assumed highest idle meant highest idle rpm
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Old September 22nd, 2020, 01:44 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onekallo View Post
So how about you describe highest idle if it is not RPM related?

Excuse my ignorance, as I assumed highest idle meant highest idle rpm
Perhaps I should only use word "idle" when it relates to "idle-speed screw". Yes, max RPM, when adjusting mixture-screws. But actual RPM number is not relevant because we don't know what setting of your idle-screw is. When fully warmed up, idle-speed can be 1300 rpms, or 1500 rpms or 2000 rpms. Actual number is not relevant when starting this adjustment, only at end.

1. first, you adjust mixture-screws to give highest-RPM without touching idle screw. So you may start at 1478 rpms, then adjust one mixture-screw and it will vary from 1435 to 1505 rpms. Fiddle to get 1505rpms. Then add 1/8th turn.

2. Then do other carb's mixture-screw and you may have range from 1505 to 1561rpms. Highest speed achieved is 1561 rpms. Then give it 1/8th turn more.

3. Now, finally turn idle-screw adjustment to give 1300 rpms idle-speed.
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Old September 23rd, 2020, 04:51 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Perhaps I should only use word "idle" when it relates to "idle-speed screw". Yes, max RPM, when adjusting mixture-screws. But actual RPM number is not relevant because we don't know what setting of your idle-screw is. When fully warmed up, idle-speed can be 1300 rpms, or 1500 rpms or 2000 rpms. Actual number is not relevant when starting this adjustment, only at end.

1. first, you adjust mixture-screws to give highest-RPM without touching idle screw. So you may start at 1478 rpms, then adjust one mixture-screw and it will vary from 1435 to 1505 rpms. Fiddle to get 1505rpms. Then add 1/8th turn.

2. Then do other carb's mixture-screw and you may have range from 1505 to 1561rpms. Highest speed achieved is 1561 rpms. Then give it 1/8th turn more.

3. Now, finally turn idle-screw adjustment to give 1300 rpms idle-speed.
So effectively if the engine rpm after being warmed up is 1300 +/-, I will

- adjust the mixture screw of the left carb rich or lean until the rpm no longer increases (lets say that value is 1505rpm) and add an additional 1/8 turn out

then

- adjust the mixture screw of the right carb rich or lean until the RPM once again no longer goes any higher (lets say that value is 1580rpm) and add an additional 1/8 turn out

then (and only then)

adjust idle speed screw to give a smooth idle at 1300 rpm +/- (again, as a base setting, where it may over time and conditions need a small minor adjustment, but the enrichener lever will control most of that unless the bike is completely warmed up


I really appreciate all of the help. The knowledge you all have is so great and I am hoping to have great success with this, to not only have a better running bike, but be able to share this knowledge with others as well.

Thank you again for your patience and understanding.
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Old September 23rd, 2020, 07:01 AM   #55
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Yup, i think you got it. Except for this part:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onekallo View Post
So effectively if the engine rpm after being warmed up is 1300 +/-, I will
Ignore whatever initial idle-speed is.

Quote:

I really appreciate all of the help. The knowledge you all have is so great and I am hoping to have great success with this, to not only have a better running bike, but be able to share this knowledge with others as well.

Thank you again for your patience and understanding.
you’re most welcome!
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Old September 23rd, 2020, 04:34 PM   #56
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So I got the 2006 dialed in just as you all said when warm.

Fuel level with the clear tube method was bang on after adjustment today so I cleaned everything else and verified all parts were present and in place inside the carbs.

I went for a long ride after work and got the bike completely warmed up. Ran like crap and wanted to die for awhile needed choke on and off etc but as you all said to do I just kept riding and got it warm.

Finally got it at an RPM that it would run on its own so I came back home and worked on the mixture screws.

Both turned out until the rpms no longer increased, and then adjusted idle speed knob to where it was nice and happy (actually more like 1400 which was fine with me)

Now to see how it runs in the morning after sitting all night ����

Thanks all! Looking forward to doing the 2005 as well. That one just needs a good ride to warm up and mixture adjust, it was the one I adjusted on Monday but hadn’t had a chance to ride it yet. Another factor is that the 2006 is my wife’s and she wants it done to ride this weekend, and I can deal with mine not being perfect just yet.
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Old September 23rd, 2020, 10:54 PM   #57
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Hey, you did bang-up awesome job with carbs! Number of times you’ve had them in and out. Did float-adjustments and mixture-screws! This is top-notch repair and your bikes and wife will really notice difference! Good work!!
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Old September 24th, 2020, 05:01 AM   #58
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Hey, you did bang-up awesome job with carbs! Number of times you’ve had them in and out. Did float-adjustments and mixture-screws! This is top-notch repair and your bikes and wife will really notice difference! Good work!!
Thank you!

Decided to take the 06 today just to re check everything (and avoid having to fix it on Saturday when my wife is ready to go )

It definitely needed some enrichener (choke lever) this morning and some throttle to fire up, but it was quite chilly here (10*C)

Full enrichener it was running around 4000rpm, made it a few stops signs and lowered the lever to 1/2. Still running around 3-4k but at least nice and smooth and steady.

My plan was to ride a little further this morning but I was dressed a little light given that it is going to warm up this afternoon.

I'll take the long way home again to get it nice and warm, and just to verify everything from yesterday. I am likely over thinking it now, but as you may have all figured out by now that is nothing new for me.
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Old September 24th, 2020, 06:32 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Onekallo View Post
Thank you!

Decided to take the 06 today just to re check everything (and avoid having to fix it on Saturday when my wife is ready to go )

It definitely needed some enrichener (choke lever) this morning and some throttle to fire up, but it was quite chilly here (10*C)

Full enrichener it was running around 4000rpm, made it a few stops signs and lowered the lever to 1/2. Still running around 3-4k but at least nice and smooth and steady.

My plan was to ride a little further this morning but I was dressed a little light given that it is going to warm up this afternoon.

I'll take the long way home again to get it nice and warm, and just to verify everything from yesterday. I am likely over thinking it now, but as you may have all figured out by now that is nothing new for me.
That's more typical of what it should do when cold. They don't run well cold if they are tuned properly.

As far as the "choke" goes, I would start it on full, but immediately back it down to where it idles about 2500. Let it sit there for a minute or 2 while you get your gear on, then turn the choke off completely before heading out. It should idle, but not well or at the hot RPM. After normal running for a short period the idle should slowly come up to the proper hot speed as the engine reaches operating temp.

I never ride off with the choke on. Give it a little throttle when you are stopped if it feels like it needs it, but it should warm up enough after a short amount of time riding normally to stay running without any help.
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Old September 24th, 2020, 09:18 PM   #60
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That's more typical of what it should do when cold. They don't run well cold if they are tuned properly.

As far as the "choke" goes, I would start it on full, but immediately back it down to where it idles about 2500. Let it sit there for a minute or 2 while you get your gear on, then turn the choke off completely before heading out. It should idle, but not well or at the hot RPM. After normal running for a short period the idle should slowly come up to the proper hot speed as the engine reaches operating temp.

I never ride off with the choke on. Give it a little throttle when you are stopped if it feels like it needs it, but it should warm up enough after a short amount of time riding normally to stay running without any help.

Ok perfect. This is what I did for the ride home. Already had gear on when I got to the bike. Applied "choke" to get the rpms up, shut choke off completely before taking off. Again still ran high but by the time I even got the short trip straight home done, it was again right at 15-1600 rpm and steady!!

Now to do the 05 tomorrow!!

THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE!!!
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Old September 27th, 2020, 11:56 AM   #61
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Well its official, they are dialed in!

An hour and a half long ride on Saturday, and another hour today. Running ok ish for the first few km and then absolutely perfect after that.

Having just started riding this year, a smooth running bike is new to my wife. She is really happy, enjoying riding much more, and I can already see huge improvements in her skill level as she is less focused/nervous on what the bike might do.

Thank you all so very much again for all of your patience, guidance, support, and understanding. I couldnt have done it without you all.
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Old September 27th, 2020, 12:52 PM   #62
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Yay!!!

You actually can leave it at 1/2 choke or so to start your ride. First couple KMs will be easier and then turn it off completely. Pre-gens are little more cold-blooded than new-gens and can use some hell when cold.

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; September 27th, 2020 at 06:10 PM.
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