June 18th, 2011, 05:09 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jacob
Location: Michigan
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2000 Ninja 250 Posts: 227
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Front brake too sensitive
Hey dudes and dudettes,
My front brake is waaay sensitive, to the point where I'd say I don't even squeeze the lever, mostly just touch it! If I were to grab a handful of brake in an emergency stop, I don't doubt the front would lock up immediately. Is there any way to adjust this so that it is a smooth motion throughout the front brake squeeze? Also, not sure if this is related or not, but my front forks dive a ton when braking, is that normal? |
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June 18th, 2011, 06:04 PM | #2 |
ninjette.org member
Name: justin
Location: Odessa
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 blue ninja 250r Posts: 223
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The front brake is 70 percent of your braising power. I think it's suppose to be like that
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June 18th, 2011, 06:15 PM | #3 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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is the front brake system stock? How about the lever and brake pads?
diving under heavy braking is common on the pregens. I'm guessing you're a heavier rider? http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Front_suspension_upgrades |
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June 18th, 2011, 06:17 PM | #4 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jacob
Location: Michigan
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2000 Ninja 250 Posts: 227
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Ah, it's normal then? I guess I'll just adjust to it. Haha. I only asked this because I'm taking my MSF right now and the Nighthawk I'm using has a completely different feel in every way from the Ninja, I suppose it's just a different bike-different feel?
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June 18th, 2011, 06:31 PM | #5 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jacob
Location: Michigan
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2000 Ninja 250 Posts: 227
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Quote:
I wouldn't call myself a heavier rider...I'm about 160 pounds. Is it possible the fork oil has something to do with the dive? |
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June 18th, 2011, 06:33 PM | #6 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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usually, adding some preload spacers will take care of the dive.
do you have a service manual? |
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June 18th, 2011, 06:38 PM | #7 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jacob
Location: Michigan
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2000 Ninja 250 Posts: 227
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I look at the owners manual online, but I don't think that's the same as the service manual, correct?
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June 18th, 2011, 07:50 PM | #8 |
ninjette.org member
Name: justin
Location: Odessa
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 blue ninja 250r Posts: 223
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Service you have to pay for but in msf is where I learnedthe 70 percent thing. But I have never rode on anything else but 2fidy I have been getting use to the brake myself but plan on getting adjustable levers
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If you’re going to lead, then lead. If you’re going to follow, get the hell out of my way! |
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June 18th, 2011, 09:09 PM | #9 |
There's a limit to s2pdty
Name: A.D.
Location: NoVa the burg
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): 250r ninja (sold) Posts: A lot.
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Yup, the pregens are like that. I took my MSF on a pre-gen and the instructor told me (although you have to use all 4 fingers to brake) to use only 2 because I had a "sports bike" and the rest had small cruisers and those induro bikes.
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June 24th, 2011, 05:36 AM | #10 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Tom
Location: Toccoa, Ga
Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): I'm between bikes right now Posts: 8
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The Nighthawk feels different because it's got an old fashion drum brake in the front. It's about the only bike left in the world that does! You need to be verrrry smooth with your front brake, and you must train yourself not to grab at it. The "nose dive" under braking is a function of the fact that in order to keep the price of the bike down, Kawasaki didn't spend a lot on the front suspension. The smoother you are with the brakes, the less it will dive, so I just make a game out of stopping with as little dive as possible.
Have Fun, Java |
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June 24th, 2011, 08:30 AM | #11 | |
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Name: -
Location: -
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Quote:
Are you the first owner of your 2000 model? If you aren't the original owner it's possible that the front brake pads have been replaced, and it's highly likely that the pads the prior owner used are EBC pads just because they're available everywere, rather than having to be ordered like other pads. The EBC pads, part number 129 HH are pretty aggressive, especially in their initial bite. They are a sintered metal pad with high-friction "HH" rating (people replacing brake pads tend to assume that "more is better" in brake pad friction). At the first touch of brakes equipped with these EBC pads you get quite a bit more stopping power than the stock EX-250 pads. From there to about 70% lever pressure it is a similar feel to the stock brakes, but stronger. At 70% these pads really kick in and want you to stop RIGHT NOW. Nothing wrong with them really, just a more aggressive pad than the bike came with from the factory. |
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June 24th, 2011, 08:44 AM | #12 |
Wartown, USA
Name: Bryan
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Join Date: Nov 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R SE, 2007 Ninja 650R, and assorted other bikes Posts: A lot.
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Use two fingers instead of four...it helps if you are grabbing too much.
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June 24th, 2011, 09:34 AM | #13 | |
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Name: -
Location: -
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Quote:
When Kawasaki was designing the EX-250 they couldn't use great parts all over the bike because it would've ended up costing as much as a 600 and then nobody would buy it. Thankfully they didn't cut corners on the engine, it's a great design with pretty good quality throughout. Unfortunately they did cut corners on the suspension. Up front we've got 1960's technology in the form of damper-rod forks and in the rear is a non-adjustable piece of crap shock (the guys at KYB Industries Japan should hang their heads in shame over this one). The good news is there are easy upgrades for both ends that will give you a great-handling EX-250. So, to fix your bike's front end: for your 160 pound weight I'd recommend .70 kg/mm or .75 kg/mm Sonic Springs (this replaces the limp-as-a-noodle .44 kg/mm stock springs), 15 weight fork oil and to improve the feel/action you should do the Gold Valve Emulator (GVE) modification. The GVE mod changes the fork from a damper-rod type to (almost) a cartridge type fork. And even if you're not going to upgrade the rear shock you should at least: Service the swingarm (http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Servicing_the_swingarm) and do a clean-and-lube job on the UniTrak suspension linkage (http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Uni_Tra...ge_Lubrication). These two items often get ignored completely or defered way too long. |
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June 24th, 2011, 06:38 PM | #14 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Tom
Location: Toccoa, Ga
Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): I'm between bikes right now Posts: 8
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I agree with pretty much everthing Greg said above, with one condition. My opinion of modifying/upgrading any bike for performance is; learn to ride the thing the way it is, first, then you'll know exactly what you actually want to upgrade. I get such a kick out of these guys that buy a 600, perform a couple thousand dollars worth of performace upgrades to it (because it's too slow with only 105 or 110 horsepower) then can't even get out of the parking lot before its obvious to everyone around them that they need to be on a 125 in an MSF class.
Now like I said, I agree with Greg. In my last post I mentioned that the forks dive like they do because they're pretty cheap forks. My last one I kept stock (I gave it to my son last month) and the one before that I put a lot of money into the suspension on (pretty much what Greg mentioned, plus a $500 rear shock). The problem with this is that once you've upgraded the suspension,($700) the tires feel too small and loose, once you've modified bigger wheels and tires onto it ($1000 more) the frame starts to feel like it's not stiff enough. By the time you've bought a custom handmade racing frame, you've got a 250 that cost more than an Italian literbike........ What I have found is; all those upgrades (and all that money!) made the bike much easeir to ride fast, but none of them made the bike any easier to ride. Once you've been riding it for a while, you may decide to upgrade those forks, but for now, it's a pretty well balanced pakage the way it is. Just ride it. A lot. Have Fun, Java |
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June 27th, 2011, 04:50 PM | #15 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jacob
Location: Michigan
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2000 Ninja 250 Posts: 227
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Good to know that I'm not imagining things!
I'll have to check the pads sometime to see if they are original or not. I'd hazard a guess that they are though, just from what I know about the bike and the past owner. It's good to see that I have options if I ever wanted to upgrade the stock suspension. I'd rather not pour money into a near 12 year old budget-cycle though, even though the suspension parts you listed sure do make it tempting. I'll probably ride it as it sits for the rest of the season, which, being in Michigan, is probably the next two weeks . If I did anything to the suspension, I hear that the ex500 spring is an easy and cheap upgrade, correcto? |
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June 27th, 2011, 06:17 PM | #16 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
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MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
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if it's 12 years old i'd like to propose an alternative situation...
perhaps your calipers are sticking due to old brake fluid. it happened to me when i got my fzr. basically the way it felt was almost no brake as i smoothly applied the lever, then all of the sudden they would 'break loose' and i would get all the braking power i was applying, basically slamming on the front brakes causing the forks to dive way more than they should. if you squeeze the brake lever as hard as you can when the bike is stopped, does it feel completely smooth? do you hear anything? any creaking? when was the last time you changed your brake fluid? IIRC they say hydraulic fluid should be changed every 2-3 years to prevent water buildup, but if it sits like that for a while it can deteriorate past the point of just getting water and will damage and gunk up the calipers. if you have spare time / curiosity you may want to take the brake system apart and check your caliper seals and pistons and make sure they aren't filled with gunky crap. at very least take a look at the fluid to make sure its not nasty or filled with water. if you can't tell they make cheap little test strips you can dip in that will tell you if its bad or not
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July 2nd, 2011, 06:55 PM | #17 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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I will try swapping the fluid, check the calipers and report back. There is sensitive, and there is scary to ride.
We all recommend the 250 as a great and forgiving bike. I can't recommend my pregen as a forgiving bike any more. I am with the OP... it's down right dangerous.
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July 2nd, 2011, 09:07 PM | #18 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Tom
Location: Toccoa, Ga
Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): I'm between bikes right now Posts: 8
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Something must be wrong. I mean, it wouldn't have been one of Kawasaki's best selling bikes for over 20 years if what you are describing was normal. It sounds like Alex is on to something. I hope the fluid does it for you.
Have Fun, Lt Tom |
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May 15th, 2016, 11:58 AM | #19 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Tag
Location: cda
Join Date: Apr 2016 Motorcycle(s): 2000 Posts: 3
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revival of old post
i know I Will be checking the caliper. Fluid all replenished. still hard braking under light pressure. The O.P. , I'm sure, was about mostly just that. In earlier years I had a ZX 7 that had the same issue. A mechanic fixed it for me but I haven't the faintest as to what he did. I have a couple of ideas and will post when I get results.
I was almost sent within 2 ft of setting off because of the braking. zero median when breathing on the lever, then to touch it with butt puckering results. |
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May 16th, 2016, 06:04 AM | #20 |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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It is a surface problem.
The pads are self-grabbing the disc and the energy of the rotation makes then grab harder and harder. I would sand the contact faces of the pads and would change the current finish of the contact surfaces of the discs with non-sand abrasive. Also important to file off any dent of the slidding pins/guides and to lubricate those with silicone or copper based brake lubricant.
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May 16th, 2016, 08:21 AM | #21 | |||
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix", 84 Honda GL1200A "SIREN" Posts: A lot.
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I recommend servicing the calipers completely.
My write-up on how-to I recommend that every time you change your pads, you service the calipers, he's my write-up to help you out. It should fix your initial problem, and keep your calipers in top working order. Quote:
I also recommend flush and fill with new brake fluid, also I'd go with 5.1DOT. No matter what kind of brake fluid you choose, always periodically flush and fill with new fluid. This is the one I use https://m.motul.com/ca/en-us/product...-1-brake-fluid Also inspect the brake lines, replace is needed, http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Stainle..._lines_upgrade Quote:
On my 91 EX500 I have Spiegler, in orange to match that bike. Quote:
When it comes to safety items like brakes, when in doubt, throw them out, it's your safety in your hands, and is cheaper than a visit to the ER. Buy quality pads,I personally recommend EBC brand either the HH, or the Extreme HH. full floating rotor or wave rotor, replace the OEM rubber line with a stainless steel braided brake line, cheaper than replacing them with OEM. On my 500 I have Spiegler line http://www.spieglerusa.com/brakes/cy...line-kits.html On my Ninja 250 i went with Venhill http://www.venhillusa.com/products.html With all that, it will stop on a dime, and leave you nine cents in change. look here http://ebcbrakes.com/products/motorcycle/ And also read this, http://www.ex-500.com/wiki/index.php...otors_and_Pads That should answer any questions you might have.
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