Shoe lifts as a solution for high seats

[adouglas]

As much as I love my 250, my next bike is probably going to be something larger. Seat height is an issue for me. I can deal with a GSXR, but something like an R6 is simply too high. The zx6R is marginal. The 250R fits me perfectly when wearing normal (relatively thin-soled) boots.

Please, none of this "just get used to it... there is no problem" stuff. I have a sloped driveway that requires me to back the bike up while sitting on it. Just accept the fact that some of us are short enough that we need to get a good chunk of our feet down.

Personally I think lowering kits are not the best solution for a variety of reasons. So I've been looking at places that modify shoes and boots for orthopedic reasons. What they do is remove the outer sole, put a tapered layer of rubber in between the outer sole and the boot, and reassemble. It's not that expensive (cheaper than lowering the bike) and increases your effective leg length.

Apparently a lot of people do this. Here's an email from one place, American Heelers http://www.orthopedicshoelift.com/ in response to a question about raising boots with wraparound soles:

More people than you would believe come to us for this exact reason. We have done this with great success. We will be able to accommodate you completely.

Discuss.

[HKr1]

Dude in our shop is like 5ft tall, he rides a cbr1000rr. I was watching him on the way home the other day, he just leans over on one foot. Seems like he has it down pretty good..... think it would suck having big shoes on the pegs/shifter/brake trying to ride. How often on a ride are your feet on the ground anyway???
When he has to back the bike up, he just hops off to get both feet on the ground

[grn09segirl]

Have you considered the ducati monster's. The 696 or 796 it has a low stock seat and you can get it with abs if you want, and it isnt much more then the cbr's. I had to lower my ninja and the ducati fits me perfect, just need to save some money now.

[Alex]

I dunno. I can't get my feet down on the RT, tiptoes on both sides at rest, and yet prefer to ride it with the seat in the high position and keep it there. I can back it up slowly on level ground, but if it is sloped and I find I don't have enough leverage with my toes to move backwards, I just get off and pull the bike back.

Whatever works best for anyone is certainly OK by me, but I don't see how adding even a full inch on the soles of both shoes would allow someone who isn't comfortable backing the bike up, to suddenly being able to. Seems like the priority should be comfort while riding the bike, along with performance capabilities while riding the bike (i.e. not lowering it any more than critically necessary). How the bike feels when we're duckwalking it seems less critical in the scheme of things.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by HKr1

Dude in our shop is like 5ft tall, he rides a cbr1000rr. I was watching him on the way home the other day, he just leans over on one foot. Seems like he has it down pretty good..... think it would suck having big shoes on the pegs/shifter/brake trying to ride. How often on a ride are your feet on the ground anyway???
When he has to back the bike up, he just hops off to get both feet on the ground

Somehow I just knew that this would instantaneously go in the direction of "I know a short guy who rides a big bike" comments.

Which part of the OP request to leave that out of it was not clear? I'm looking for discussion about the practicality of this as an alternative to other approaches, not tales of how Bridget the Midget can ride a hypermotard just fine.

I have no doubt that there are short people out there who love their tall bikes. Rceezy comes to mind. But I truly believe that the height of those bikes IS an issue for those folks.

The average height of an American male is 5'10". I'm 5'7" (barely). I have a 30" inseam. I don't care what anyone says, this is a challenge when trying to deal with many (not all) sportbikes.

Here's something I'd like you guys of average or greater height to try. I'm serious here.

Put something on your seat to make the reach to the ground similar to what us short folks have to deal with... a rolled up towel, a phone book, a ream of paper, a pillow... anything that forces you to have only your toes in contact with the ground... and try maneuvering the bike around while sitting on it. Back it up an incline. Try rolling it backwards over a half-inch-high pavement irregularity. Come to a stop at an intersection with loose gravel underfoot.

See what it's like. You have no idea how frustrating it is to be just a BIT too short to reach something until you've experienced it yourself. You'll find that riding is no problem at all. Moving the bike around when you're NOT riding is the issue.

It's not a matter of being comfortable not getting my heels down. I've been riding bikes since before most of you were born (1985) and I am comfortable just getting my toes down... IF the road is flat and IF the surface is not loose and IF I don't have to manhandle the bike over pavement irregularities/slopes, etc.

This is nothing more or less than a matter of real-world practicality. In the real world we have crowned roads, and gravel, and potholes, and slopes to deal with, and -- trust me on this one -- it's a GREAT BIG PAIN IN THE NECK. All it takes is one zero-speed drop because you had to lean the bike over too far to catch before you could support its weight to make this crystal clear.

Regarding comfort on the bike... well, since my legs are between two and four inches shorter than the average American male, I've got plenty of extra room to play with. All I'd be doing is making my leg length closer to what most of you already have.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by grn09segirl

Have you considered the ducati monster's. The 696 or 796 it has a low stock seat and you can get it with abs if you want, and it isnt much more then the cbr's. I had to lower my ninja and the ducati fits me perfect, just need to save some money now.

I can certainly go find a bike with a low seat (I ride one right now, as a matter of fact). There are lots of those. That's not the point.

I'm trying to broaden my choices, especially in the direction of sportbikes. The Monster is no sportbike.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by Alex

I don't see how adding even a full inch on the soles of both shoes would allow someone who isn't comfortable backing the bike up, to suddenly being able to.

In fact it works great. What I left out is that I own a pair of ginormous work boots with big blocky heels, similar to these, but I think the soles on mine are even thicker:



I've added gel insoles to them that add another 1/4" to my height. Wearing these makes an R6 feel like my 250 does when I'm wearing my normal riding boots. When I'm in these boots, I actually have close to average leg length.

So why don't I just wear these and why the thread?

- The aggressively lugged soles make it tough to move my feet around while riding.
- The high-profile steel box toes (higher profile than motorcycle boots) make shifting interesting (though it is possible).
- I was hoping to start a discussion that other short folks might find useful.

[Rayme]

Well if you really want an R6 I'd go with those shoes you need to wear everytime. If it's that much of a big deal why not just go with the gsx-r? They are very similar bikes anyway, like all the 600's.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by Rayme

If it's that much of a big deal why not just go with the gsx-r? They are very similar bikes anyway, like all the 600's.

Options are a good thing, no?

I hear you on how similar that class of bikes really is, though. When you read the rags they try to make a big deal out of the differences, but at the level of your average rider (which I most certainly am) I suspect that the differences are minimal.

I don't know. I've never ridden one.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Andrew,
The CBR I just got is also a bit taller (and heavier). My driveway has a slight grade at the end of it and I do find it a bit tricker to maneuver the bike while sitting on it. Getting off and pushing/pulling hasn't worked great as I have been doing alot of yard work (digging stumps, re-edging flower beds) which have strained my wrists abit. I've been looking for a boot that will give me a bit more height, but most of the riding boots are thin soled compared to work boots. BTW 5'9" here.

Scary moment the other day when a shorter friend of mine who rides an 883 low, wanted to sit on my bike. He had major trouble getting off it. I told him to think of it like getting off a 10 speed, lean it to the left, and I held the left side of the bike to keep it from going down. At least he probably won't want to try it now!!

[izmail1215]

NEVER where converse worst shoes ever even for walking (flat bottom) i wore it on my normal bike (cycle) and stopped with my foot the whole thing wore out got a hole in them and let wood in which gave me a splinter.

[adouglas]

Yeah, bike weight is a big one. The shorter you are the more you have to lean the bike to the right to support its weight when lowering the kickstand... and the more you lean the bike the more weight you have to support... and the heavier the bike is the quicker that weight goes up with each additional degree of lean...

You can see where this is leading. When you've got short legs, the margin between being able to hold the bike up and having it go down because it's too much to support starts to get very very narrow.

This is IMHO why riding dual-purpose bikes and dirt bikes that have super-high seats is no big deal. It's because they weigh a lot less so you can lean them over a fair bit and still hold them up.

Try that with something that weighs 500 pounds...

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Please, none of this "just get used to it... there is no problem" stuff.

Originally Posted by adouglas

Which part of the OP request to leave that out of it was not clear? I'm looking for discussion about the practicality of this as an alternative to other approaches, not tales of how Bridget the Midget can ride a hypermotard just fine.

Seemed pretty clear, I didnt tell you to SIU. I said riding with clogs would probably suck ass

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Yeah, bike weight is a big one. The shorter you are the more you have to lean the bike to the right to support its weight when lowering the kickstand... and the more you lean the bike the more weight you have to support... and the heavier the bike is the quicker that weight goes up with each additional degree of lean...

You can see where this is leading. When you've got short legs, the margin between being able to hold the bike up and having it go down because it's too much to support starts to get very very narrow.

This is IMHO why riding dual-purpose bikes and dirt bikes that have super-high seats is no big deal. It's because they weigh a lot less so you can lean them over a fair bit and still hold them up.

Try that with something that weighs 500 pounds...

True. I had a lower seat on my CR250, but even without it 200 something pounds leaned over is no biggie.

[Moped]

try shaveing down the seat for a better fit on the bike

[Talonne]

Do you intend to move the shifter so that you can get your foot under it with ease? I tried on some Daytona Ladystar boots (sport riding boots with a built-in platform) and found that they were too thick and clumsy to fit underneath the shifter.

I feel your pain. I'm 5'2". The Ninjette is a bit taller than I'd like (can't back it out of my driveway without dangling completely), and I am pretty much doing ballet pointe feet when sitting on a GSXR.

For upgrades, I believe the Ninja 650 has a low seat option that brings the seat height very close to the Ninjette's. Not sure if that's something you'd like, but it's an option.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by Talonne

Do you intend to move the shifter so that you can get your foot under it with ease? I tried on some Daytona Ladystar boots (sport riding boots with a built-in platform) and found that they were too thick and clumsy to fit underneath the shifter.

Do you have any pics of those boots? Did you have them lifted, or were they stock?

I can shift in those big clunky workboots, but it's definitely different.

One thing about that service is that the lift is not uniform. They taper the insert so the toe isn't like Frankenstein's boot.

[tinng321]

http://www.increasingshoes.com

Here's another solution.
They have many different styles.
I will probably pick a pair up in the near future.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by tinng321

http://www.increasingshoes.com

Here's another solution.
They have many different styles.
I will probably pick a pair up in the near future.

Yeah, but as far as I can tell they don't sell proper riding boots. Their online catalog does show some short boots however.

[Trypanosome06]

Here are some links to the Daytona Ladystar boots. They come in a men's version which is the MStar, I think. You have to buy them from the Helimot website: http://www.helimot.com/shopexd.asp?id=73

They're $450! I did consider them but decided against it due to the price.

Here are some reviews (of the women's version/men's are the same, only bigger sizes):

http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcyc...dy-star-boots/

http://www.motorcycle.com/products/d...oots-3263.html

[revstriker]

I don't have the short leg problem so I've never had an issue with length. I did buy a pair of Joe Rocket Boots which had a pretty thick sole. While they probably would have been fine for a cruiser, they were a bit clunky for the sport bike. I did find it hard to shift. Ended up returning them. I've been struggling with trying to find some decent boots that would also look good with a pair of Jeans for wearing around after riding (like at work).

[ally99]

Originally Posted by Talonne

For upgrades, I believe the Ninja 650 has a low seat option that brings the seat height very close to the Ninjette's. Not sure if that's something you'd like, but it's an option.

Sadly, the 650 is too high. I'm 5'6", 120 pounds and I can only tip-toe on the 650. Andrew, I faced many of the same problems you were referring to. At anything over 10 mph, I LOVED the 650, but anything under that was not much fun. I've been riding over a year, and I still frequently practice my low speed maneuvers (actually heading out to a parking lot this morning), because they are obviously not the most comfortable maneuvers to make on any bike with the loss of gyroscopic stability. These low-speed situations are when the 650 was just too much for me, not because of the more sensitive throttle nor because of the extra power, but for the pure fact that I couldn't feel comfortable trying new things knowing that I couldn't comfortably touch the ground. I could not force myself to relax knowing that if I make a small error, I would not be able to catch the bike...wouldn't stand a chance.
We're going to have to sell it, and don't get me wrong, I LOVE my "Lil' Ninj", but it is a bit disheartening to think that I'll never be able to ride anything with just a little more HP.
I feel your pain, Andrew. EVERYTHING you described fits what I feel on taller bikes. Everyone always tells me to just get comfortable, relax, one-side it, blah blah. It is NOT that easy for all of us.
Anyway, thanks for the post. It makes me feel like I'm not so alone out there. :-) Ally

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by Trypanosome06

Here are some links to the Daytona Ladystar boots. They come in a men's version which is the MStar, I think. You have to buy them from the Helimot website: http://www.helimot.com/shopexd.asp?id=73

They're $450! I did consider them but decided against it due to the price.

Here are some reviews (of the women's version/men's are the same, only bigger sizes):

http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcyc...dy-star-boots/

http://www.motorcycle.com/products/d...oots-3263.html

Wow... way too expensive. But seeing the photos of what the inner platform looks like makes me think that there's a much simpler and cheaper way.

That's nothing more than a shoe lift, and those are cheap.

Just get a pair of boots one or two sizes larger than what you normally wear (for the extra room inside), and get a $20 pair of lifts. the boots won't be any clunkier than those worn by someone with larger feet and you'll get the height you need.

Here's the insole of the Ladystar boot:




And here are some relatively inexpensive lifts that claim to boost your height by two inches. Look pretty much the same to me....



With the right pair of boots this could be a good answer that doesn't interfere with shifting.

It's good that we've got options... seat shaving, shoe mods, etc.

[Talonne]

Originally Posted by ally99

Sadly, the 650 is too high. I'm 5'6", 120 pounds and I can only tip-toe on the 650.

Sounds like we have very close to the same inseam. I was completely on my toes when I sat on the 650. However, there is a low seat option!!!

The stock seat height for the 650 is 790mm. The low seat is "approx 30mm lower and 20mm narrower than the OEM seat", according to the Kawasaki website. That would put it lower than the Ninjette, which has a stock seat height of 775mm.

Maybe see if any of your local dealers have a low seat they can stick onto a floor model and see how it feels! You can probably keep that 650.