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Old August 15th, 2022, 10:46 PM   #1
CZroe
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Name: J.Emmett Turner
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Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F

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Bike sat years. Overhaul time. Whatís first?

Edit - It’s a build log now… Part 1:
https://imgur.com/a/bivUW24
…and Part 2:
https://imgur.com/a/QheZ6Qt

You can follow here or the IMGUR galleries. The galleries include video and other pics not posted to the thread directly.



https://i.imgur.com/SaW2tGE.jpg

My 2008 has been sitting, unattended, for several years. It’s been under a cover and up on stands since 2012 but it still got absolutely filthy.


https://i.imgur.com/GdI5mkp.jpg

This chain has zero miles but is still rusted and covered with mud. Like the Sportisi undertail, even the cover is rotting.


https://i.imgur.com/ldAPunn.jpg

The battery has zero miles too, but it hasn’t been tended since 2015 so I went ahead and bought another. Though it was running when I parked it I know it’s going to need a lot more than just a battery before I even try to start it. I need a plan of action before I move forward.

I had filled the tank with ethanol free gas and Sea Foam before it sat, so at least there’s that. I don’t recall if I ran the carbs dry the last time since I was occasionally starting it up every few months. I recall it was very difficult the last time so I let it run hours until the Sea Foam worked its magic. Hopefully that didn’t make too much room for rust at the top of the tank.

I emptied the tank a couple times to replace a leaky petcock but the last time was over 7 years ago but it’s still the same fuel from ~9 years ago. The leaky petcock was filling the carbs up and probably getting down in the crank, which is why I stopped running it (needed to change the oil again after discovering the leaky petcock and never did).

I last used Shell Rotella T6 Full Synthetic oil after parking it and smelling gas in the oil but that’s many years old now so it’ll need changing. I still have unopened jugs of the stuff from before the last oil change but it’s obviously just as old. Do I need to throw all that out? Hopefully the replacement petcock didn’t develop the same issue since I suspect a common factory defect but I’ll be doing another oil change before I try to start it.

So, part of the reason it was parked was because I was hearing cam chain noise and I wanted to do a valve inspection/adjustment. I also removed the forks to replace the seals and never put them back, so they’ve actually been stored in a better place most of this time. Unfortunately, some parts were moved and improperly stored by a family member, ruining the headlight so I bought HID projectors and a Koso gauge during the forum group buy (yes, it was that long ago).

At some point I stripped the threads for the cam chain tensioner cap and don’t recall if I ever properly sealed it off so it may have formed an unwanted breather hole into the crank case. I figure I still need to do that valve inspection so I can look for any issues while I’m figuring that out.

Next, since I’m worried about fuel, water, or rust in the combustion chamber I guess I should not try to turn the engine over without checking the condition of the cylinders and piston heads. I assume I have to remove spark plugs but I still have no way to peek down into there. Do they rent or loan inspection cameras at auto parts stores? If I see any of those things I assume it’s time for a new engine since I don’t know what to do about them.

I’m sure the air box is full of spiders or worse by now. I’ll need to clean that out and replace the filter too. I don’t think I should even try to start it without removing and cleaning the carbs with a rebuild kit. Might make checking the pistons/cylinders easier too.

So, obviously, there’s a lot to do before I can even start it up and even more to do before I can ride it (rusted chain, old/dry tires, service brakes, etc). I’ve never been mechanically inclined but this bike is nowhere near the point where I could wheel it in to a dealer for service. Casey, a former forum member, and I did perform a valve service back in 2011 but I was just the one holding the camera and handing him wrenches and stuff. Unfortunately, Casey flamed out, deleting his valve service video and all his posts. Still, that experience along with this guy’s excellent video gives me renewed confidence for doing it myself:
https://youtu.be/MP0kYpdZclU

Casey: You’re still appreciated!

Not counting my unfinished mods (gauge, HID projectors, etc), so far:
Replace battery
Check tank for rust
Check petcock
Replace fuel
Clean out air box
Replace air filter element
Drain engine oil
Drain coolant
Rebuild carbs
Replace spark plugs
Perform valve inspection/adjustment
Replace cam chain tensioner
Replace oil/coolant/filter
Attempt start
Sync carbs
Replace chain
Rebuild/bleed brakes
Replace tires
Check/lubricate bearings
Tension/align chain
Ride?

Anything missing or out of order for getting this mothballed bike back up and running? I imagine I probably need to do some of that stuff that almost never gets done… like swingarm service, since being technically off the ground didn’t really keep the ground off... if you know what I mean.


https://i.imgur.com/yyJ4hie.jpg

I still have all the plastics and Sportisi hugger around somewhere though I’ll probably find I’m missing lots of bolts/hardware. Perhaps I should order a set of replacement bolts/hardware before I begin. Any suggestions? I almost lost another when I was trying to get pics and who even knows where the rest are.


https://i.imgur.com/Rgr1Imt.jpg

I do want to point out that this Lockhart-Philips triple tree stand has really taken my abuse well. They sent it to me many years ago after an older design without gusseting at the neck failed. I wasn’t even the original owner. No doubt, even a ladder with a ratchet strap would’ve failed by now… especially since I wouldn’t have been able to fit the cover. This thing is rock-solid and it’s great to know that they support their products!

Last futzed with by CZroe; August 30th, 2022 at 08:38 AM.
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Old August 16th, 2022, 12:24 AM   #2
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Start from centre outwards. Engine 1st:

- drain oil, inspect condition. If there's petrol in it, need to rebuild carbs & petcock
- cam-chain tensioner
- valve clearance measurements. Probably within spec
- pull plugs and look inside. USB borescope cameras are cheap nowadays.

I have dedicated Windows 7 laptop for camera. It's also old enough to have serial-port so I can connect to various ECUs to program them.
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Old August 16th, 2022, 06:21 AM   #3
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I’d get the front end back on just to move it to a better spot. Clean and flat to keep things organized. I also second starting from the center. Get all possible parts needed and procedure researched before starting on a section.

Gonna take time but you got it! Wish I could help physically lmao

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Old August 16th, 2022, 06:28 AM   #4
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Oy! That's a project!

You have a pretty good list going.

As Danno noted - I'd start with the engine.

Oil/filter, air filter, coolant, probably new battery, drain fuel and floatbowls, checking things over, and then see what happens.

If the fuel was not stabilized, or the floatbowls drained, most likely the carbs are messed up and need a complete overhaul.

Once you get it running, I would go to the brakes. Bleed and check them over. They may be stuck from sitting.

Then chain and tires, eventually the gauges/fairings/cosmetics.
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Old August 16th, 2022, 10:55 AM   #5
CZroe
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Is this bad? New battery just vented during activation.

Oh, boy… maybe I shouldn’t have got this new EverStart ES9-BS battery from the salvage store after all, since I’ll have no warranty.


https://i.imgur.com/ldAPunn.jpg

I filled it up with the included sulfuric acid electrolyte, left it sitting for over 45 minutes (manual says at least 30), and capped it off like I’m supposed to. Less than an hour ago I put it on my Schumacher 1.5 Amp fully automatic microprocessor-controlled smart charger, which is the kind where they imply you can safely leave it unattended. Even so, I wasn’t comfortable leaving it unattended, so I brought it all to my office at work where I can babysit it for 3-6 hours.

So it was on charge a half hour when I heard a “pffffff” sound like opening a carbonate beverage. I smelled the same eggy sulfur smell that I noticed when filling it with electrolyte. I don’t see any leaking and the charger still says it’s charging like normal. Should I be concerned?

I opened my office door and set up a box fan to air it out but now I won’t be able to hear if it does it again… and I do still smell it. I don’t want to get too close to inspect for bulging since I’m not wearing safety glasses. I checked the manual and there doesn’t appear to be anything about what to do if it bulges or vents. If this is normal it would tell me to expect venting, right?

The Duralast in the pic is the one I’m replacing. I went through the same process with it back in 2014 and didn’t have any issues. Is has zero miles but also 0.6 volts after being abandoned by me for several years, but it was a genuine Yuasa-produced unit like the ones Kawasaki uses. The receipt is too faded to read but I recall spending 3x as much (around $115). The EverStart one is from some Vietnamese manufacturer I haven’t identified.
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Old August 16th, 2022, 11:07 AM   #6
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What was voltage reading before and after connecting charger?

Some chemistries are pre-charged, you add acid and watch voltage increase.
Others require charging.

Might have been some internal damage with shorted cells?
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Old August 16th, 2022, 11:14 AM   #7
CZroe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
What was voltage reading before and after connecting charger?
Some chemistries are pre-charged, you add acid and watch voltage increase.
Others require charging.
Instructions say to charge this one first, then measure after the specified time, but only if you aren’t using an automatic charger like mine. That’s when you are supposed to let it sit for another 30 minutes and put it back on charge for another 40% of the original interval if it’s below the specified voltage.

Even if I were using one of those chargers, it hasn’t reached that specified time (3-6 hours at my charger’s 1.5 amps). It’s only been an hour now. I don’t think I’ll get a useful measurement while it’s still on charge anyway.
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Old August 16th, 2022, 02:04 PM   #8
CZroe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
What was voltage reading before and after connecting charger?

Some chemistries are pre-charged, you add acid and watch voltage increase.
Others require charging.

Might have been some internal damage with shorted cells?
I left a fan blowing on it and took a lunch break to grab my meter. It was done charging by the time I got back, which means it finished in 3 hours or less. It measures 13.17 volts, which is good. If it does have some shorted cells I wonder if it will just result in reduced capacity or current. Wish my bike was running so I could test it with some real cold-cranking amps! HeckÖ I might need it to get home since a Good Samaritan mightíve fried something in the van last night and there might be a parasitic draw.

He connected jumper cables backwards when helping my brother, who locked himself out of my van. The headlights were on so the battery was dead by the time I got there. At first I had ďSecurityĒ on the dash meaning the chip key wasnít talking to the immobilizer in the Body Control Module but that went away after there was enough charge to turn it off and on again. I noticed some chimes that Iím only supposed the hear when the BCM Program fuse is removed, such as when programming your remote, and wouldnít ya know it: my remote is no longer working.

I have yet to check fuses but Iíd be surprised if reversing the polarity somehow selectively blew that one fuse that really only exists as an awkward button/switch for putting the BCM into Program mode.

The Good Samaritan was just trying to help so I hope his old Saab is OKÖ just some kid working at Hobby Lobby. When he asked me if he had it right I wheeled around to see both clamps on a battery with nothing red and no positive mark anywhere. I couldnít immediately see the negative mark either so I pointed out that the side with the attachments like fuses and disconnects is usually positiveÖ so he had it backwards. Yikes! It had probably been that way for 15 seconds or more, depending on how long it was before he asked.
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Old August 17th, 2022, 01:21 AM   #9
Bob KellyIII
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I would say that there was a cap on the vent of the battery that was not removed after the battery was filled and the charging increased pressure inside the battery until it blew the cap off... your lucky I've had battery's split wide open because of that !
if it holds a charge it's good to go ....if it doesn't leak
some of these new batteries do not have a vent to un plug and they recommend that you leave the caps off till they are fully charged if that is the case if you put the caps back on and then charged it that was the cap venting ! another you were lucky it could have split the battery... but no harm done as long as the case didn't crack your good to go !
I've been known to leave a battery on the charger for an overly long time
and that is not good for them at all..... if a 3 hr charge doesn't bring the battery up to 12~13 volts just replace it ! my charger is 2 amps and I can manually set it to stay on for however long I want..... I've brought back dead batterys because of that but that is never guaranteed !
In my mind an automatic battery charger is only good if you know your not going to be there to turn it off when the time is up....
I've had good batteries and bad batteries from several different companies
I've paid a bunch of money for some and the cheapest I could get and there is NO consistency in batteries it's a "pig in a poke" a roll of the dice if the one you buy is going to be any good or not.... and paying more money for them does NOT guarantee quality..... though it might help your odds and perhaps any return policy.....
I went into auto zone looking for a GOOD battery for my XS650 Yamaha
I told the guy I wanted a battery that wasn't going to have to be replaced next year he brought out one that cost $119.00 if I remember right but it lasted 4 years and was still good when I sold the bike !
I also got one from Walmart that was on sale for $23.00 and it lasted for years.... so you never know !
Bob......
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Old August 17th, 2022, 08:35 AM   #10
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I sure do like the new li-ion batteries. They weigh ounces, not pounds, and mine even has a restart function! I used it when I realized my brand new r/r wasn't fully plugged in (d'oh!) and drained it; hit the button on the battery and it fired right up.
I don't like the price. Hard to argue with a $23 walmart battery even if it's a gamble.
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Old August 17th, 2022, 10:02 AM   #11
CZroe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Start from centre outwards. Engine 1st:

- drain oil, inspect condition. If there's petrol in it, need to rebuild carbs & petcock
- cam-chain tensioner
- valve clearance measurements. Probably within spec
- pull plugs and look inside. USB borescope cameras are cheap nowadays.

I have dedicated Windows 7 laptop for camera. It's also old enough to have serial-port so I can connect to various ECUs to program them.
I have an old Toshiba Libretto 110CT running Windows 98 for a similar reason (old parallel port devices)Ö no USB for a borescope though. I found those worthless Windows RT Surface tablets are at least useful for my USB microscope though I have to force a generic webcam driver install. Iím sure it will work exactly the same for a USB borescope. Thanks! Iíll add one to my next Amazon order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singh2jz View Post
Iíd get the front end back on just to move it to a better spot. Clean and flat to keep things organized. I also second starting from the center. Get all possible parts needed and procedure researched before starting on a section.

Gonna take time but you got it! Wish I could help physically lmao

Subbed for progress!!
IMGUR gallery:
https://imgur.com/a/bivUW24

Guess itís a build log now! Thanks. Hey, @Alex. Do you mind merging my thread about the new battery venting? Itís part of the build, I guess.

My original workspace was inside the semi-enclosed lean-to that is behind it in some shots. You couldnít stand up in there so I moved the bike to rip the elevated floor out but never got moved back in since my mother piled all her junk at the entrance:

https://i.imgur.com/KqTxcLR.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/nPIXisp.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/MHR2J9p.jpg

I originally took the bike out to remove the elevated floor since there wasnít enough room to stand. Iíll get to work making it ďflat and organizedĒ but thereís no power/lights so I still canít do everything here. No air compressor either. I used the bikeís battery for my 12v emergency roadside impact wrench when I last changed sprockets (worked like a charm!).

That was so long ago her lean-to didnít even exist to pile things in front of my bikeís lean-to.

https://i.imgur.com/kHXKnsP.jpg

Thatís right: a lean-to on a lean-toÖ on a lean-to, since thereís also one she fully enclosed many years ago. When we first built it we made her promise that it was only for the motorcycle stuff but she still moved right in, first chance she got.

She always paid lip service to the agreement so itís not as bad inside though you literally have to climb over her junk to get in. The landlord is selling the entire neighborhood, forcing us to abandon these buildings in a matter of months, so itís time to deal with all her junk too. I just need to get it flat/clean enough.


https://i.imgur.com/mzPBluf.jpg

To make it flatter/cleaner I guess I can grab a bunch of walkway blocks from outsideÖ maybe take them to a car wash to clean them off first since I donít have a pressure washer.

Feral chickens have been roosting in there over the years so itíll never be clean, but hopefully good enough. No power/light is the bigger issue but Iíll have to deal with that to even start work since I need a big fan. Georgiaís heat/humidity are brutal right now but itís more to disrupt mosquitos that swarm you the moment you set foot in her yard. I swear, you couldnít have more if you made it your lifeís goal to breed mosquitos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
Oy! That's a project!

You have a pretty good list going.

As Danno noted - I'd start with the engine.

Oil/filter, air filter, coolant, probably new battery, drain fuel and floatbowls, checking things over, and then see what happens.

If the fuel was not stabilized, or the floatbowls drained, most likely the carbs are messed up and need a complete overhaul.

Once you get it running, I would go to the brakes. Bleed and check them over. They may be stuck from sitting.

Then chain and tires, eventually the gauges/fairings/cosmetics.
Yeah. I recall the caliper pistons were horribly pitted even before all this so brakes and you need to change fluid every 4 years anyway, so brakes will need a rebuild. Iíve never bled brakes before and hoped Iíd never have to but Iím going to be doing so much else for the first time that I may as well. Iím already in the deep end.

The Sea Foam I used claims they can stabilize fuel for 2 years but itís been a lot longer than that. I did leave it with Ethanol-free E0 so perhaps I got more years out of it. I honestly donít know what Iíll find when I get to that.
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Old August 17th, 2022, 10:03 AM   #12
CZroe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
I would say that there was a cap on the vent of the battery that was not removed after the battery was filled and the charging increased pressure inside the battery until it blew the cap off... your lucky I've had battery's split wide open because of that !
if it holds a charge it's good to go ....if it doesn't leak
some of these new batteries do not have a vent to un plug and they recommend that you leave the caps off till they are fully charged if that is the case if you put the caps back on and then charged it that was the cap venting ! another you were lucky it could have split the battery... but no harm done as long as the case didn't crack your good to go !

Full resolution: https://i.imgur.com/eY3IDcM.jpg

I dunnoÖ the instructions definitely said to install the seal strip and let it sit for 30 minutes before charging. Once activated, it is a sealed maintenance free AGM battery so there shouldnít be a vent cap. If the seal is designed to let pressure out during the initial charge Iíd expect some mention of it in the instructions since you are bound to hear the sound and worry, like I did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
I've been known to leave a battery on the charger for an overly long time
and that is not good for them at all..... if a 3 hr charge doesn't bring the battery up to 12~13 volts just replace it ! my charger is 2 amps and I can manually set it to stay on for however long I want..... I've brought back dead batterys because of that but that is never guaranteed !
In my mind an automatic battery charger is only good if you know your not going to be there to turn it off when the time is up....
Yeah, but I was following the instructions to the letter and they definitely recommended automatic ďfor best results.Ē OK, I guess I wasnít following it to the letter since I was still timing everything and babysitting it out of an abundance of caution.

I do need to get a dumb charger, if possible. Any recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
I've had good batteries and bad batteries from several different companies
I've paid a bunch of money for some and the cheapest I could get and there is NO consistency in batteries it's a "pig in a poke" a roll of the dice if the one you buy is going to be any good or not.... and paying more money for them does NOT guarantee quality..... though it might help your odds and perhaps any return policy.....
I went into auto zone looking for a GOOD battery for my XS650 Yamaha
I told the guy I wanted a battery that wasn't going to have to be replaced next year he brought out one that cost $119.00 if I remember right but it lasted 4 years and was still good when I sold the bike !
I also got one from Walmart that was on sale for $23.00 and it lasted for years.... so you never know !
Bob......
Indeed. The cheapest AutoZone battery I got before turned out to be a genuine Yuasa, just like Kawasaki uses. Of course, I killed it by abandoning it outside for 7 years but thatíll do-in pretty much any battery. That was made in Taiwan and this is made in Vietnam so I wasnít so lucky this time.
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Old August 17th, 2022, 01:51 PM   #13
Bob KellyIII
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I'm thinking about one of those small lithium batteries for my TT250 sense it's battery died about 6 months after we got it...it had absolutely no water in it at all.... I added normal tap water to it and put it on the charger but although it lights up the dash and headlight it's not enough to use the electric starter !
....
I've been putting on a back rack on that little dirt bike for S&G's using 3 of Harbor freight's bigger plastic cases working on the top box now....
....
Bob......
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Old August 17th, 2022, 04:26 PM   #14
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
I use one of these for my car (smaller version for bike).
Lithium-iron LiFEPO4 only!!
DO NOT use lithium-ion/cobalt from laptops (probably wouldn't get enough out of them anyway.).

Link to original page on YouTube.

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Old August 17th, 2022, 09:08 PM   #15
Bob KellyIII
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When Harbor freight had a big 200 amp charger on sale I grabbed it and that is the one I use for everything now... over my life time I have gone through about 6 or 7 small up to 10 amp chargers... but the best charger I ever has is the Harbor freight charger it goes up to 200 amps for starting a car with a dead battery and it really does that ! it has several settings on it for amperage including 2 amps for motorcycle batteries.... it also has a 60 minute timer on it
and a switch position that you can turn it on to continuously on.... where I use it most of the time...
I've used this charger to bring back several totally dead batteries, disulfate the batteries and bring them back from the dead....
but unfortunately you can't do that with every battery i have found, some just simply will not respond ! I''ve even ran a scanner off the charger while I'm in the shop for Kicks...
it's a real good robust charger...all except the plastic wheels, I had to replace them with wooden wheels decades ago.... I've had this thing for well over 10 years now I guess.... I paid $129.00 for it and I think they still sell it !!!
but they want more for it now..I think it's $169.00 now
.... I highly recommend that charger !it's a goodern ! LOL...
......
....
..
that's all I got.
Bob.....
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Old August 19th, 2022, 11:32 PM   #16
CZroe
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Gallery updated:
https://imgur.com/a/bivUW24
Has a bit of video too.

I had a couple days off to start this and, well, we aren’t off to a good start. The weather was so bad that I barely had a break in the rain long enough to drain the gas… and I found it already drained.


https://i.imgur.com/aGvyTYe.jpg

Zoom. Enhance.


Full resolution: https://i.imgur.com/ch6HE0N.jpg

Bone dry.

Also, the key was stuck. I wonder why…

https://i.imgur.com/R2Yvz9g.jpg

Amazingly, I did get the key working though I’ve seen others resort to the drill for much less.

Recall that I had left the tank full with ethanol-free E0, a whole can of Sea Foam, and a brand new petcock to replace my leaky one. In fact, here is my old petcock after I found it swimming in a plastic bin full of water…

https://i.imgur.com/9fP7n0e.jpg

…and here is where I disassembled it over 8 years ago to document its defect:

https://imgur.com/06nhPsg

It’s very possible that the new petcock had the same issue and I didn’t notice because I didn’t detect a leak and I was hesitant to tear into a new part. My tank is known to readily form a vacuum so it’s possible that’s why I didn’t detect a leak. [Edit: Found an old conversation where I noted it was built differently despite having the same part number. Guess I did disassemble and analyze it before installation after all.]

I gotta admit… I’m feeling pretty discouraged here. Still, I’m willing to attempt a tank treatment… but I have to find out if the gas went into the crank. The rain came back before I could check.

…but before all that, I went digging for other stuff and found TWO headlights. One was was a Ninjetter’s crashed headlight that I was going to salvage a reflector from if the HID projectors didn’t work out. I also wanted to experiment with it to modernize an EX250F.


https://i.imgur.com/ZWYtjUw.jpg

For some reason, the cracked up one was stored in a plastic bin that preserved it while the other grew mildew all over despite being indoors. The foam rotted off too.

https://i.imgur.com/XKPd49f.jpg

Next step? I really don’t want to go through restoring the tank only to have another leaky petcock cause another cascade of issues. I’m having flashbacks to the period before I abandoned it because it would develop three more issues for every one I fixed… usually from unwanted interference from friends and family. First the ruined headlight, and now this:

https://i.imgur.com/5mhtATZ.jpg

I was storing these outside until *someone* insisted that they be stored inside even when I pointed out that they were intended to be exposed to sun and rain. Today I found that one of my lower fairings has been getting scratched every time someone opens the shed door. This is relatively recent because they weren’t like that earlier this year.

This is the same uphill battle I was facing many years ago when I frustratedly abandoned it. The same person is trying to do it again. For example, I wanted to prepare the lean-to for moving the bike inside but over the last two days this person insisted on dragging in a double-length pallet and building an elevated floor… completely ignoring that the bike was moved out in the first place specifically to demolish/remove an elevated floor. Talk about not learning from mistakes!

Yes, I would say that the original elevated floor no one asked for was the cause of all this. The area was specifically built with no floor to park and work on the bike. Once the floor was added against my will I couldn’t even stand up in there so it had to go. By the time it was gone, I was rebuilding the forks so it had no front tire and wasn’t safe to move back inside. By the time I was ready to reinstall the forks I found the upper fairing was misplaced and the headlight ruined. By the time I got my HID projectors from China I needed a new powersports battery. By the time I had a battery I needed E0 fuel and Sea Foam. By the time I swapped fuel I discovered a leaky petcock… and on and on and on. It only seemed to end when I ignored/abandoned it, but clearly it never really ended.

Even though I stopped tending the battery and starting the engine occasionally around 2015, I thought I took appropriate precautions by storing it off the ground with stabilized E0 fuel and a cover. Boy was I wrong! I expected to need another battery, carb job, etc… not a rusted fuel tank and a crank full of gas.

Last futzed with by CZroe; August 20th, 2022 at 12:05 PM.
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Old August 20th, 2022, 12:22 AM   #17
Bob KellyIII
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Well, every rebuild is frought with setbacks although you seam to have a fair share of someone elses ! LOL persistance and persiverance is the key
Work on it every day and it will be done soon... even if it's only 15 minutes it really does make a big difference !
when I'm doing a big project I try my darndest to complete at least ONE thing every day.... but I'm retired and can do that if your working and trying to make a living that really isn't practical at all ! just walking out there and looking at it every day will help keep up the enthusium for the thing ! that's why I say 15 min a day..... just moving stuff around is better than nothing ! REALLY !
when bad weather sets in do stuff in the shed !
you need to get it out of the weather man !
.....
if Your lucky ( fat chance of that) the gas will just have leaked out onto the ground.... if not perhaps the crank is full of gas drain the oil and leave it open for a day or two to air out. take that tank off and put it on the bench and put some gas in it and find where it is leaking don't do it on the bike because the temptation of hooking up the lines to keep mud-dobbers out of the lines is a real good way to keep from them fowling the carbs .... make your self some short plugs for that a small bolt in a short piece of gas line will do the trick to keep the bugs and dirt out of the line parts ! mud-dobbers were a big problem back on the ranch they filled every 1/4" hole on the property ! and they didn't care if it was on an engine or greasy thing !
I had a leaking petcock I repaired it myself without any parts the seat has a bit of white corrosion on it and on the rubber part....it only leaked like a drip per 20 seconds but it was enough to really mess things up and empty my tank !
sounds like you need to put down some rules buddy like stay the hell out of the shed ! depending on the situation that may or may not work !
but it might be worth a try !
....
I sincerely wish you a bunch of LUCK ! it's hard enough to work on a Ninja yet alone have outside help too !
....
Bob..........
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Old August 22nd, 2022, 10:21 PM   #18
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Good luck!! Sending you good vibes/energy!

Be persistent no matter what!! I just started back on reviving my bike recently too and will get it done in the next couple of weeks. Picking up where you left off years ago is tough but remember to keep goals small and knock em out one after one!!!

You got this!!
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Old August 23rd, 2022, 08:19 AM   #19
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I second Singh2jz's comments you need some positive vibes coming your way for sure! But hey, if BonelessSugar can bring a fossil back from the dead, you can't let a little rust get you down.
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Old August 23rd, 2022, 02:11 PM   #20
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
For rusty tanks, pre-gen ones are especially thin. So I'm scared of anything that has mechanical scrubbing & impact or removes more than just rust (most acids). Only acid I've found that removes only rust and stops at good metal is phosphoric acid, active ingredient in Naval Jelly. Also leaves midly-protective phosphate coating.

I think even better is electrolysis:

https://www.instructables.com/Electr...-Rust-Removal/
https://www.motorcyclezombies.com/re...rust-gas-tank/
http://www.secondchancegarage.com/pu...cleaning-1.cfm <-- a lot of geezers with pre-war classics use this process

Afterwards, DON'T use any kind of thick sealing stuff, they end up peeling off after while. Just POR-15's tank-treatment as it's chemical conversion for surface rather than coating on top.

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; August 23rd, 2022 at 04:00 PM.
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Old August 24th, 2022, 07:22 AM   #21
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USB borescope cameras are cheap nowadays.

I have dedicated Windows 7 laptop for camera.
If you want to spend an extra $20, this one is connected via Wi-Fi to a phone app, and has a 1080p camera while being slightly narrower. It's actually a few bucks cheaper now than when I got it on sale a year and a half ago.
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Old August 27th, 2022, 02:10 PM   #22
CZroe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
I'm thinking about one of those small lithium batteries for my TT250 sense it's battery died about 6 months after we got it...it had absolutely no water in it at all.... I added normal tap water to it and put it on the charger but although it lights up the dash and headlight it's not enough to use the electric starter !
....
I've been putting on a back rack on that little dirt bike for S&G's using 3 of Harbor freight's bigger plastic cases working on the top box now....
....
Bob......
Probably the opposite of a dumb charger I could use to restore old batteries, do you think this thing would be useful for electrolysis?

https://i.imgur.com/e6tZ5Sn.jpg

Is it worth $50 if I already have the same brand’s 1.5 amp charger? Looks like it can be used to start a vehicle without a battery so it’ll deliver a lot more amps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
When Harbor freight had a big 200 amp charger on sale I grabbed it and that is the one I use for everything now... over my life time I have gone through about 6 or 7 small up to 10 amp chargers... but the best charger I ever has is the Harbor freight charger it goes up to 200 amps for starting a car with a dead battery and it really does that ! it has several settings on it for amperage including 2 amps for motorcycle batteries.... it also has a 60 minute timer on it
and a switch position that you can turn it on to continuously on.... where I use it most of the time...
I've used this charger to bring back several totally dead batteries, disulfate the batteries and bring them back from the dead....
but unfortunately you can't do that with every battery i have found, some just simply will not respond ! I''ve even ran a scanner off the charger while I'm in the shop for Kicks...
it's a real good robust charger...all except the plastic wheels, I had to replace them with wooden wheels decades ago.... I've had this thing for well over 10 years now I guess.... I paid $129.00 for it and I think they still sell it !!!
but they want more for it now..I think it's $169.00 now
.... I highly recommend that charger !it's a goodern ! LOL...
......
....
..
that's all I got.
Bob.....
Don’t think I could justify it but I did see they still had it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
Well, every rebuild is frought with setbacks although you seam to have a fair share of someone elses ! LOL persistance and persiverance is the key
Work on it every day and it will be done soon... even if it's only 15 minutes it really does make a big difference !
when I'm doing a big project I try my darndest to complete at least ONE thing every day.... but I'm retired and can do that if your working and trying to make a living that really isn't practical at all ! just walking out there and looking at it every day will help keep up the enthusium for the thing ! that's why I say 15 min a day..... just moving stuff around is better than nothing ! REALLY !
when bad weather sets in do stuff in the shed !
you need to get it out of the weather man !
.....
if Your lucky ( fat chance of that) the gas will just have leaked out onto the ground.... if not perhaps the crank is full of gas drain the oil and leave it open for a day or two to air out. take that tank off and put it on the bench and put some gas in it and find where it is leaking don't do it on the bike because the temptation of hooking up the lines to keep mud-dobbers out of the lines is a real good way to keep from them fowling the carbs .... make your self some short plugs for that a small bolt in a short piece of gas line will do the trick to keep the bugs and dirt out of the line parts ! mud-dobbers were a big problem back on the ranch they filled every 1/4" hole on the property ! and they didn't care if it was on an engine or greasy thing !
I had a leaking petcock I repaired it myself without any parts the seat has a bit of white corrosion on it and on the rubber part....it only leaked like a drip per 20 seconds but it was enough to really mess things up and empty my tank !
sounds like you need to put down some rules buddy like stay the hell out of the shed ! depending on the situation that may or may not work !
but it might be worth a try !
....
I sincerely wish you a bunch of LUCK ! it's hard enough to work on a Ninja yet alone have outside help too !
....
Bob..........
Yeah… the mud daubers around here build their own “organ pipe” mud tube nests instead of filling holes. They already had their way with my battery box but I knocked that off years ago:


https://i.imgur.com/y6JWCHv.jpg

I did find some kind of grub in a rubber wellnut but it wasn’t sealed inside. I see the kind you’re talking about when I order junk electronics and find sealed screw holes (old Atari joysticks, Nintendo consoles, etc).

You ever meet one of those people who does the exact opposite of what they should do and when it predictably fails they double-down and keep doing it? That’s my mom… and it’s only gotten worse now that she’s getting older and I’m rarely there to keep her in check.

She’s the kind of person who keeps things indoors that have no business being indoors, displacing what should be there. She has so many sheds and yet they are all full of things that don’t belong there… like a trash can full of scrap wood… another full of cedar chips… multiple trash bags full of literal twigs (bark and all)… all while more important stuff is getting ruined out in the rain. Her solution is to build more sheds until the landlord stopped her years ago (foundation for yet another was done).

I thought the landlord selling the neighborhood after nearly 45 years would force her to deal with it exactly like I’m dealing with my bike there. Unfortunately she’s only doubling-down on all the same bad decisions she’s made over the years… like building on property we don’t own. She’s very stubborn.

Last futzed with by CZroe; August 27th, 2022 at 03:41 PM.
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Old August 27th, 2022, 02:11 PM   #23
CZroe
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Updated the image gallery. As usual, there’s a bit more there than here including video:

https://imgur.com/a/bivUW24

I wrote replies with the last update but didn’t get the chance to post it until it was time for another.

I disassembled my old petcock and found it was in much worse condition than it was when I removed it from the bike in 2014. Probably because it spent years cast off in a plastic bin that somehow filled up with water.


https://i.imgur.com/G5eCSHa.jpg

This time I actually took the ring thing out. It looks stained now but it was a smooth, clean, Teflon-lookin’ material 8 years ago. Makes me wonder if it was always some kind of deposit after all. Though I’ve been in and out before I was forced to tear diaphragms this time due to the conditions it was left in. Still, I think it’s more salvageable than my zero-mile petcock.


https://i.imgur.com/uswl6Qp.jpg

At first this seemed encouraging: It looked like the zero-mile petcock leaked through seal against the tank instead of leaking through the fuel line, but there were no corresponding deposits on the bike below. Doesn’t look like there’s any hope of a new petcock sealing against the tank in this condition and I don’t see how treating the rust inside will help. Open to suggestions here.


https://i.imgur.com/0J56EAu.jpg

Even after scraping off the loose stuff the remaining deposits on this are too bad to even seat flat on the tank. Hard but flakes… like sandstone. There’s no way it’ll mount flush like this. I’m hoping to use one of these old petcocks as a plug to seal the bottom of the tank during electrolysis (rust removal). I got a #9 (1.5”) neoprene rubber stopper for the filler neck but I still need a smaller one for the fuel sender opening (~30mm).


https://i.imgur.com/KVQsWd6.jpg

So, yeah, I couldn’t see any fluid level through the sight glass and the filler cap was stuck HARD so I needed to come back with pliers. It’s a clear fluid all the way at the top. I don’t presume it went any higher than the arm for the clutch cable.

The bottom of the tank has over a dozen of these little bubbles that squirt rusty water when you pop them.

Video of me popping them:
https://i.imgur.com/vYPOM5B.mp4

The bottom is one thing but there are also a couple tiny ones on the top that I hope will go away without popping them. Not sure how water gets there.

Back to the zero-mile petcock:

https://i.imgur.com/FqyrQND.jpg

There was white stuff caked in the passages but it cleaned up easily.


https://i.imgur.com/VVH6Qqz.jpg

Can’t say the same for the top:

https://i.imgur.com/G4aHAKF.jpg

The corrosion went deep and compromised the rubber seal. That pin is supposed to be nearly flush with the surface. Even the plastic ring at the bottom of the filter screen is supposed to be embedded in metal.

Yes, that is the same zero-mile petcock. Vinegar in an ultrasonic cleaner ruins the finish on aluminum:

https://i.imgur.com/tpAUsT7.jpg

So it seems to me that the fuel definitely made it through the petcock and into the engine but it also corroded the petcock seal… even if that’s not where the fuel got out. This leaves me with corrosion inside and out. I’ll start with a wire brush and sanding smooth but what else can I do to get this to seal again?

Last futzed with by CZroe; August 28th, 2022 at 08:27 PM.
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Old August 27th, 2022, 02:12 PM   #24
CZroe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singh2jz View Post


Good luck!! Sending you good vibes/energy!

Be persistent no matter what!! I just started back on reviving my bike recently too and will get it done in the next couple of weeks. Picking up where you left off years ago is tough but remember to keep goals small and knock em out one after one!!!

You got this!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedrewski86 View Post
I second Singh2jz's comments you need some positive vibes coming your way for sure! But hey, if BonelessSugar can bring a fossil back from the dead, you can't let a little rust get you down.
Thanks, guys.
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Old August 27th, 2022, 02:52 PM   #25
Bob KellyIII
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A file laid flat will take off the big stuff... chances are that the aluminum on the petcock is not flat anymore so try your darn-dist to flatten it out with a file so it will seal flat.
..... man that thing is a mess ! good luck you got a long way to go !
....
yes a smaller charger like that will work on electrolysis most will cut back to 1.5 or 2 amps and that is all you want anyway unless your in a big hurry!
I'ed be tempted to try and silver plate the inside of the tank with a old silver spoon or fork.... If I remember correctly you need to attach the tank to the negative side and the electrode in the tank ( not touching anything but the water) is positive..... if you are trying to plate something the leads need to be reversed because electricity flows from negitive to positive ! (Not positive to negitive) set it all up and let it churn for a day or two and then replace the water and do another 2 days .... then reverse the leads and try to plate the inside with copper or silver to keep the rust at bay
be sure to check your charger periodically as they have a tendency to turn them selves off ! )most have a thermo sensor inside and turn off if they get too hot.
.... I really do hope that is not water in the bottom end I am hoping it is gasoline, although that is really bad for seals water is worse on the cylinders and oil pump !
....
Believe me I know how difficult it can be to live with an older person.... but you need to remember your time is coming ! and getting old is not easy ...it's the hardest thing I have ever encountered and I'm not that old yet.... I can only hope I die before I reach 90 ! as from what I've seen that is a living hell
when your body changes, your brain doesn't work half as good as it used to and your memory goes away.... it is pure torture ! it's no fun ! she needs support not ridicule as this is the hardest time in her entire life..... REMEMBER THAT..... she needs you !
.....
Good luck !
Bob......

....
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Old August 27th, 2022, 03:39 PM   #26
CZroe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
A file laid flat will take off the big stuff... chances are that the aluminum on the petcock is not flat anymore so try your darn-dist to flatten it out with a file so it will seal flat.
..... man that thing is a mess ! good luck you got a long way to go !
....
yes a smaller charger like that will work on electrolysis most will cut back to 1.5 or 2 amps and that is all you want anyway unless your in a big hurry!
I'ed be tempted to try and silver plate the inside of the tank with a old silver spoon or fork.... If I remember correctly you need to attach the tank to the negative side and the electrode in the tank ( not touching anything but the water) is positive..... if you are trying to plate something the leads need to be reversed because electricity flows from negitive to positive ! (Not positive to negitive) set it all up and let it churn for a day or two and then replace the water and do another 2 days .... then reverse the leads and try to plate the inside with copper or silver to keep the rust at bay
be sure to check your charger periodically as they have a tendency to turn them selves off ! )most have a thermo sensor inside and turn off if they get too hot.
.... I really do hope that is not water in the bottom end I am hoping it is gasoline, although that is really bad for seals water is worse on the cylinders and oil pump !
....
Believe me I know how difficult it can be to live with an older person.... but you need to remember your time is coming ! and getting old is not easy ...it's the hardest thing I have ever encountered and I'm not that old yet.... I can only hope I die before I reach 90 ! as from what I've seen that is a living hell
when your body changes, your brain doesn't work half as good as it used to and your memory goes away.... it is pure torture ! it's no fun ! she needs support not ridicule as this is the hardest time in her entire life..... REMEMBER THAT..... she needs you !
.....
Good luck !
Bob......

....
Not only is it not flat, it’s negative!

https://i.imgur.com/2FGvMkD.mp4

The surface around the filter screen should be nearly flush with the pin thing that blocks an unused passage. It’s now a huge cavity after cleaning most of the corrosion out. It’s so deep I might even have trouble turning this into a plug during electrolysis since the cavity intrudes on the seal.

I called it “stubborn” but my mother routinely rejects support to push forward in secret… deliberately avoiding what she sees as pushback (any suggestion contrary to her impulses). That’s why she was preparing to build a floor at the mere mention of using the walkway blocks. Consulting with me first is an opportunity to say “no” so she was just going to do it. This is the exact kind of interference that forced me to abandon it years ago. Every time I’d come over to work on it I’d find something else ruined. She’s almost 80 but she’s always been like this to some degree… more eccentric than anything else.

On that note, plans for the workspace have changed. I have some large wood panels in storage since the tornado. It’ll be a lot easier to bury a few of those walkway blocks, level them, and throw this on top versus lining the whole floor. They probably won’t fit through the entrance but if I take down the screens on the other side I can slip it over the wall to get it inside. I’m going to try and get one on top of the van after work tonight.
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Old August 27th, 2022, 03:54 PM   #27
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Oh yeah, I found a deal on something I might need from the flea market:

https://i.imgur.com/clL6J53.jpg

It’s an excessive amount for me but supposedly it’s the old formula that works better.

Should I use the carb dip or the ultrasonic cleaner when I get to the carbs? Both? At least now I know better than using anything acidic on aluminum.
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Old August 27th, 2022, 05:23 PM   #28
Bob KellyIII
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LOL um don't ask me ! I never use a dip... I clean carbs by hand...which explains why I have had to pull the carbs on my Ninja 250R 3 times.... they work now..... but something still isn't right in there....
I fired it up about a week ago when it was over 100 degrees here, it fired right up and ran like a top ...if I do that when it's cold I have to baby it for 10 minutes !!!! and it definitely will not start without the choke !
....so something is still dirty in the pilot circuit they are very hard to get clean in a ninja carb.... I did get a ultrasonic cleaner but I haven't had to pull the carbs off sense LOL
.....
Bob....
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Old August 28th, 2022, 09:42 AM   #29
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LOL um don't ask me ! I never use a dip... I clean carbs by hand...which explains why I have had to pull the carbs on my Ninja 250R 3 times.... they work now..... but something still isn't right in there....
I fired it up about a week ago when it was over 100 degrees here, it fired right up and ran like a top ...if I do that when it's cold I have to baby it for 10 minutes !!!! and it definitely will not start without the choke !
....so something is still dirty in the pilot circuit they are very hard to get clean in a ninja carb.... I did get a ultrasonic cleaner but I haven't had to pull the carbs off sense LOL
.....
Bob....
LOL! Itís an open question. Not sure if you saw the reply above it with video of the petcock but, yeah, itís just a huge cavity after removing the bulk of the corrosion.

Regarding the clear fluid in the clutch cover/oil fill port: I smelled it and itís definitely gas. Looks clean so I guess itís still stable but seeing what it did to the aluminum parts of the fuel door and petcock I expect similar damage in the carbs. Still havenít got to it.
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Old August 28th, 2022, 09:46 AM   #30
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So, I’m worried about damaging my fork tubes by clamping then in rusted triple tree clamps:

https://i.imgur.com/gphXibs.jpg

The upper clamps actually look fine so I don’t know why the lower ones rusted. Perhaps I can sand them smooth but if it continues to rust I expect it to damage the forks.
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Old August 28th, 2022, 10:00 AM   #31
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take a piece of 80 grit sandpaper and wrap it around your finger and get in there and make that all shinnie metal !
once you get the big hunks off you can switch to 220 grit or something...
... then put oil on it or grease
probably ought to clean up the top clamps as well....
....
get that gas out of the bottom end asap as it will harden the crank seals if you leave it in there too long.... re fill the crank case with oil immediately.
or it will flash rust on you....
myself I would re fill it up to the top where the gas was at.... turn it through by hand a few times then drain it back down to the proper level....
that's probably not all that necessary, but I think I'd do that.
....
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Old August 28th, 2022, 10:03 AM   #32
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For rusty tanks, pre-gen ones are especially thin. So I'm scared of anything that has mechanical scrubbing & impact or removes more than just rust (most acids). Only acid I've found that removes only rust and stops at good metal is phosphoric acid, active ingredient in Naval Jelly. Also leaves midly-protective phosphate coating.

I think even better is electrolysis:

https://www.instructables.com/Electr...-Rust-Removal/
https://www.motorcyclezombies.com/re...rust-gas-tank/
http://www.secondchancegarage.com/pu...cleaning-1.cfm <-- a lot of geezers with pre-war classics use this process

Afterwards, DON'T use any kind of thick sealing stuff, they end up peeling off after while. Just POR-15's tank-treatment as it's chemical conversion for surface rather than coating on top.
Yeah, I was already looking into electrolysis after seeing this video:
https://youtu.be/ICW01HFbaxc

The plate inside the fuel filler neck makes it more difficult to isolate the sacrificial anode but I have a 1.5” #9 rubber (neoprene) stopper that fits the fuel filler neck perfectly. If I don’t drill perfectly straight I’ll stick a rubber grommet in the oval opening below. There doesn’t seem to be a good unpainted grounding point since the place he clamped to is painted and had rubber isolators, but I’ll screw some raw bolts in some place if I have to. I still need to find a stopper for the 30mm fuel sender hole but Lowe’s had several smaller sizes that’ll probably cover me.

Thanks!
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Old August 28th, 2022, 10:06 AM   #33
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take a piece of 80 grit sandpaper and wrap it around your finger and get in there and make that all shinnie metal !
once you get the big hunks off you can switch to 220 grit or something...
... then put oil on it or grease
probably ought to clean up the top clamps as well....
....
get that gas out of the bottom end asap as it will harden the crank seals if you leave it in there too long.... re fill the crank case with oil immediately.
or it will flash rust on you....
myself I would re fill it up to the top where the gas was at.... turn it through by hand a few times then drain it back down to the proper level....
that's probably not all that necessary, but I think I'd do that.
....
Bob....
Thanks.

Itís probably been in there for years and I donít want to turn the engine over until Iíve had a better look inside, so would it be better to drain and use fogging oil for now?
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Old August 28th, 2022, 10:29 AM   #34
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well get that gas out'a there today !!!!
re fill it with oil up to where the gas was and then leave it till your ready to tear it down...... then drain the oil.... the oil is just to stop any rust because the gas has etched the metal inside the engine you need oil back on it !
if it were me I'ed turn it over several times by hand anyway.... to see if it is frozen up as well as get oil on everything.... that's better than not turning it over....in my book but if it's stuck and won't turn, you can't do that but I would try real hard to brake it free !
.....
I had a Honda 90 engine that set for decades and it was frozen up .... i used diesel, and all through the sparkplug hole and rotated the motor in every direction possible and then put a wrench on the flywheel and finally got it to move a very small amount, so I repeated the process 2 or 3 times and finally got it to turn all the way through......there was no doubt rust in the cylinder
but I got it to brake loose and after a few days of turning it through and flushing out the spark plug hole with diesel it started coming out fairly clean (an oil squirt can gun is perfect for this)
I put the engine in my bike another Honda 90 and swapped the carb and air cleaner and exhaust and with quick start I finally got it to fire up and run
....the more it ran the better it ran.... till it was a one kick start thing....
i ran that motor for about 6 months while I rebuilt the other one then swapped the good one back into the bike.... it was my main transportation back and forth to school and work so it had to be reliable !
....no that is not the proper way to do things but I was a young kid with no money and I needed it, so that shows you what can be done in a pinch !
mechanical things do not have to be perfect, it's better if they are, but they don't have to be !
....
Bob......
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Old August 28th, 2022, 01:09 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
well get that gas out'a there today !!!!
re fill it with oil up to where the gas was and then leave it till your ready to tear it down...... then drain the oil.... the oil is just to stop any rust because the gas has etched the metal inside the engine you need oil back on it !
if it were me I'ed turn it over several times by hand anyway.... to see if it is frozen up as well as get oil on everything.... that's better than not turning it over....in my book but if it's stuck and won't turn, you can't do that but I would try real hard to brake it free !
.....
I had a Honda 90 engine that set for decades and it was frozen up .... i used diesel, and all through the sparkplug hole and rotated the motor in every direction possible and then put a wrench on the flywheel and finally got it to move a very small amount, so I repeated the process 2 or 3 times and finally got it to turn all the way through......there was no doubt rust in the cylinder
but I got it to brake loose and after a few days of turning it through and flushing out the spark plug hole with diesel it started coming out fairly clean (an oil squirt can gun is perfect for this)
I put the engine in my bike another Honda 90 and swapped the carb and air cleaner and exhaust and with quick start I finally got it to fire up and run
....the more it ran the better it ran.... till it was a one kick start thing....
i ran that motor for about 6 months while I rebuilt the other one then swapped the good one back into the bike.... it was my main transportation back and forth to school and work so it had to be reliable !
....no that is not the proper way to do things but I was a young kid with no money and I needed it, so that shows you what can be done in a pinch !
mechanical things do not have to be perfect, it's better if they are, but they don't have to be !
....
Bob......
Thanks. Hopefully thereís enough daylight once Iím off work. Should I remove the spark plugs and lube it from the top before I turn it?
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Old August 28th, 2022, 04:46 PM   #36
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YES ! definitely !
....
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Old August 28th, 2022, 05:02 PM   #37
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the worry is if there is rust on the cylinder walls.... I doubt there is but their could be.... and the cylinders are probably still full of gas ( it takes a while for it to seep past the rings to get into the bottom end.)
but just play it safe and lube up the cylinders with either alot of WD-40 or just plane o'l oil.... take the exhaust pipes off first though so you don't get a bunch of oil in them.... LOL
I expect it will turn through fairly easy which is a good thing... but if it doesn't make sure it is in neutral first and then rock the wrench back and forth to try and brake the rings loose of the cylinder wall ( they rust to the cylinder wall and get stuck ) usually just a few tugs back and forth will brake the stuck rings loose from the wall.... and you'll notice a crunchy hard spot when turning the crank 360 deg. as they come back to that same rusty spot.... that will go away
without having to tear it down and honing the cylinders.... but if you have to tear it completely down anyway, just hone the cylinders and replace the rings
as part of the rebuild.
....
I remember making a major blunder in my youth, I was trying to set points on a Zundapp 200cc but when I took off the cover the crank wouldn't turn very far and then sprung back ....so I could not figure it out so I took off the clutch cover and tried to turn it again and saw that the transmition was engaged !!!! I felt like an Idiot ! put it in neutral and it turned real easy !

one of those lessons that you never forget !
....
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Old August 28th, 2022, 06:52 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by CZroe View Post
Can’t say the same for the top:

https://i.imgur.com/G4aHAKF.jpg

The corrosion went deep and compromised the rubber seal. That pin is supposed to be nearly flush with the surface. Even the plastic ring at the bottom of the filter screen is supposed to be embedded in metal.
For this, I recommend product called Liquid Steel. It's 2-part epoxy reinforced with metal powders. I add additional metal shavings for strength. It can be cut, machined and even tapped for threads just like metal!

Fill up that cavity, especially sides where seal would sit. Once you've got seal supported underneath, that should be good. Also a little Yamabond-4 when re-assembling takes care of any gaps. Testing out repair 1st on electrolysis bath would be good trial run.
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Old August 28th, 2022, 07:49 PM   #39
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LOL that reminds me of the rear brake reservoir on my Triumph there wasn't much left of it ! I bought a new one ! I didn't want a leak on the rear brake !
....
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Old August 28th, 2022, 08:19 PM   #40
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YES ! definitely !
....
Bob.....

https://i.imgur.com/QxEwOjB.jpg

Drained and filled! Unfortunately, turn-over will have to wait since I couldn’t get oil into cylinder 2 yet. If only I had as much light as my camera’s flash provides here!

The bendy spark plug wrench from the owner’s tools pack was nowhere to be found and I ran out of daylight before I could get to the second spark plug with a standard one. Turning it over will have to wait until morning.

I probably would’ve had enough time if I didn’t get pulled over for not having my seat belt on while I backed out of the driveway to get my tools half a block away. I religiously wear it but it was stuck in the door and I planned to deal with it while rolling at walking speed on a private road (totally legal). Thankfully I didn’t get a ticket but it sure didn’t help with the time pressure.

The oil drain and filter bolts were so stuck that I almost forced the bike off the stands! I know they were torqued to spec because I did it but after years of setting in I needed a pipe on my wrench to get them off.

They say not to use gasoline for starting fires, but this stuff is not useful for much else. Certainly not going in any other vehicle’s fuel system. Do I just take it to an auto parts store like I would waste oil? What would you do with oil-contaminated E0?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
the worry is if there is rust on the cylinder walls.... I doubt there is but their could be.... and the cylinders are probably still full of gas ( it takes a while for it to seep past the rings to get into the bottom end.)
but just play it safe and lube up the cylinders with either alot of WD-40 or just plane o'l oil.... take the exhaust pipes off first though so you don't get a bunch of oil in them.... LOL
I expect it will turn through fairly easy which is a good thing... but if it doesn't make sure it is in neutral first and then rock the wrench back and forth to try and brake the rings loose of the cylinder wall ( they rust to the cylinder wall and get stuck ) usually just a few tugs back and forth will brake the stuck rings loose from the wall.... and you'll notice a crunchy hard spot when turning the crank 360 deg. as they come back to that same rusty spot.... that will go away
without having to tear it down and honing the cylinders.... but if you have to tear it completely down anyway, just hone the cylinders and replace the rings
as part of the rebuild.
....
I remember making a major blunder in my youth, I was trying to set points on a Zundapp 200cc but when I took off the cover the crank wouldn't turn very far and then sprung back ....so I could not figure it out so I took off the clutch cover and tried to turn it again and saw that the transmition was engaged !!!! I felt like an Idiot ! put it in neutral and it turned real easy !

one of those lessons that you never forget !
....
Bob......
Thanks. Clutch lever was removed with the forks and handlebars but it was definitely left in Neutral. I actually wanted 1st gear and managed to get it there so that I could tell which way to crank it since I hear the service manual has it backwards. Unfortunately, I didn’t get that far since I couldn’t get oil in cylinder 2 before running out of daylight. I’ll be back at the crack of dawn!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
For this, I recommend product called Liquid Steel. It's 2-part epoxy reinforced with metal powders. I add additional metal shavings for strength. It can be cut, machined and even tapped for threads just like metal!

Fill up that cavity, especially sides where seal would sit. Once you've got seal supported underneath, that should be good. Also a little Yamabond-4 when re-assembling takes care of any gaps. Testing out repair 1st on electrolysis bath would be good trial run.
Thanks. I’ll probably combine parts between the two petcocks with a rebuild kit to see if I can get a working one but the rusty part of the tank this is supposed to seal to will probably be a problem even if I buy another brand new one. It was painted so I figure I’ll need to wirebrush it to get the rust off and then repaint. Since this rust is on the outside I can’t expect the electrolysis to get it… unless I can use the corroded petcock plug in a way that lets the electrolyte down there but still stops it from leaking freely.

Since it’s a temporary plug, maybe I should leave out the rubber seal and use liquid gasket around it, deliberately letting the electrolysis electrolyte in-between to work on the external rust. You’ve given me a great idea. Thanks!

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