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Old May 4th, 2022, 12:14 PM   #1
Bob KellyIII
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My Continuing battle with pilot jets on the Triumph

When I put the triumph to bed for the winter I was sure to run the gas real low on the float bowls... by turning off the fuel and letting it run, and it was running fantastically..... a few months later mid winter or so I fired it up and it ran like crap. so I cleaned the pilot jets and like magic, it fired up first kick and ran like a champ....
so yesterday I took the cover off her and wiped her down real good and fired her up... started first kick and then started running badly Pilot jets I thought!
so I shut off the gas and let it run till the stagering point and then killed it.
today I just pulled the pilot jets and ran the cleaning tool through them both and put them back in and gave her a kick and it was running great ...without the choke ! ( it's 73 deg here today)
it continued to run fantastically even down to 1000 RPM
so I turned off the gas again and let her run a bit till she started to stagger and I killed it.... I was thinking of taking her for a ride but I only had 2 hrs of sleep last night so maybe that's not such a good idea ! LOL
.... I have a good paper fuel filter before each carb inlet one on each petcock
and I am wondering why the pilot jets get plugged so easily ???
there should be absolutely no debris getting to the carbs !
could Old fuel do that ? I put it in before I parked it for the winter
and it seems to run fine on that fuel, so does the RX4 ( same batch of fuel)
.... I'd say if it runs on it, it's not the fuel .... but that may not be the case
I dunno !
Grin...that bike makes me smile when I hear it run good ! what'a beast !
....
Bob.......
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Old June 3rd, 2022, 05:10 PM   #2
Bob KellyIII
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I took the Triumph 750 up to the truck stop and filled the gas tank and I ran out of gas about 200' before I got to the pump ! so the tank was completely empty
....
I also blew the fuze when it died, very strange occurrence of anomalies , just to go get gas !
but I managed to get gas put tinfoil over the super tiny fuze, don't know why that was in there ! and it fired up and took me home....
the funny thing is it hasn't plugged the jets sense ! it usually fires up on first kick
and runs like a top now perhaps it was a load of bad fuel from the get go I don't know
....kind of a strange reaction to fuel.... having to clean the pilot jets very often ! but perhaps the fuel itself had a bunch of partials in it !?!?!?!
but so far this gas has been working great ! weird !
....
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Old June 3rd, 2022, 10:26 PM   #3
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damn Lucas electrics!!!
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Old June 4th, 2022, 03:08 AM   #4
Bob KellyIII
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Nah ! not this time ...I put in an electronic ignition system and I haven't had a bit of problem with spark sense ! .... that reminds me to check the timing with a timing light... as I know it is right on with static timing... but a timing light is better ! ... the fuze.... that was most likely me... it IS INDEED the only fuze on the property that will fit it ! (gott'a buy some 30 amp'ers !)

have you ever ran into that sort of fuel problem before ? it's a new one on me !
sure I've seen where year old gas won't run an engine... but never seen fuel that was chunky before !
I remember taking about a year and a half to rebuild my Mom's white VW bug
(mainly due to the lack of parts and money to do it...)
finally got it running but it ran like SH#$ and i tried everything but the miss-fire was hopping all over the place and didn't want to take throttle either
so we brought home another 5 gal can of gas and dumped it in there and all of a sudden the car started easy and ran like a top ! ....that was back when they first changed the fuel formula for California.... they have been messing with it every sense.... you have no idea what you'll get at the gas pump anymore !
.... that gas that was in the triumph had sta-bul in it and so did my RX4 at that time but I have filled them up sense then...
the Ninja and my Kids bike still have the Sta-bul fuel in their tanks.... ain't ran them much ! LOL
.....
i think i just got a bad load of fuel because soon as it was gone and new fuel put in there I haven't had to clean the pilot jets sense....
which means I should get some injector cleaner for the CRV and probably the RX4 as well.... Sigh ! what the heck, it's only money ! HAHAHAH
....
later !
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Old July 4th, 2022, 04:42 AM   #5
Bob KellyIII
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I fired up all the bikes yesterday and you guessed it the Triumph ran like doo doo...the pilot jets need to be cleaned AGAIN ! it probably only set for a month straight...and it did get in the 90's a few days ago but honnestly that bike must hate me ! !!!!!
it ran fine above 2000 rpm but trying to get it to idle was a no-go thing again
I suppose I should sell it as I do not ride it anywhere near enough !
even the Ninja fired right up as it always does and warmed up fairly fast with the 85 deg. day.... ( it likes the warm !)
....
there must be something with the new fuel like it thickens up if it sets....
i don't know , but at least with the new carbs their easier to clean than the old carbs ! LOL.....

Bob.........
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Old July 4th, 2022, 11:00 AM   #6
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"the pilot jets need to be cleaned AGAIN"

I'd go so far as to add the phrase "and full fuel circuits" to your comment above.

Something additional is wrong as this has become a repetitive situation.

My carbed 900SS Ducati starts/runs/accelerates perfectly after a recent 6 week "vacation", recently documented and linked right here on ninjette.com.

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=377234
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Old July 4th, 2022, 03:46 PM   #7
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I assume you have in-line filtre? So we can rule out carb-inlets as source of crud.

Which leaves carb-outlets as cause of issues. How large is vent for atmospheric pressure? It only needs to be only so large to pressurise float-bowls. If you've got giant 10mm vent, maybe constrict it down to 2-3mm?

This will prevent rapid petrol evaporation inside carbs themselves to prevent deposits and clogs.

Are you using PEA-based fuel-system cleaner in tank? Helps prevents petrol degradation and clog build-up. Darn, I'm starting to sound like one of those hair-product ad-verts!!
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Old July 4th, 2022, 04:32 PM   #8
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strongly recommend this, especially in bikes that will sit for some periods.....yes its Polyetherine based
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Old July 4th, 2022, 08:13 PM   #9
Bob KellyIII
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducatiman View Post
"the pilot jets need to be cleaned AGAIN"

I'd go so far as to add the phrase "and full fuel circuits" to your comment above.

Something additional is wrong as this has become a repetitive situation.

My carbed 900SS Ducati starts/runs/accelerates perfectly after a recent 6 week "vacation", recently documented and linked right here on ninjette.com.

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=377234
Yah I know..... it shouldn't be doing this at all... I do have in line paper type fuel filters on all the lines that feed the 2 carbs ( 4 lines, 4 filters)
the gas lines when I cut them and took out about a 1" piece to add the filters look great inside... no cracking or even dirt on them they look brand new so I didn't change them ( if memory serves me correctly,... I think I was going to but didn't) .... last run to the gas station found me pushing it the last 200 yards to the pump where I put in premium and then had to replace the fuse to get it started again.... and then I rode it home...
I started it about 3 or 4 times sense then and every time it started and ran great and even idled correctly..... but not this time... and it probably sat for about 30 days sense the last time I started it... ( probably 3 months sense the fill up )
....
even if there was rust in the tank it wouldn't be able to get past the fuel filters.....
these carbs have a bleeding plunger to prime the carbs prior to starting
I am wondering if because they are "OPEN TO THE AIR" in that regard, weather the alcohol in the gas is "absorbing" so much water from the atmosphere that it plugs up the pilot jets....( it has rained several times sense it was parked...)
but I seriously doubt if water would stop a pilot jet from working.... would it ?.... it might,.... it's a very tiny hole !
if it were easy to pull the air cleaners on this beast I would start it and slap my hand over the carb throat and suck out all the junk... but the air cleaners take an hour or 2 to get on there right !
....
about the last 6 times it has done this I just pull the pilot jets and clean them and it works great for a few days.... only when it sits is there a problem.
...
BUT WHY ? that's the question...
....
Bob.....
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Old July 4th, 2022, 08:21 PM   #10
Bob KellyIII
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Danno:
I didn't put any fuel stabilizer in the tank after my last fill up because I figured I'ed be riding it .... well that didn't pan out and it sat....
.....
I think I'll go out there and do that now...
I dunno if it's PEA based ..... what is that?
I use sta-bul.
......


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Old July 4th, 2022, 08:59 PM   #11
Bob KellyIII
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I put a bit of Sta-bul fuel stablizer in the gastank and sloshed it around a bit the best I could.... then cleaned both pilot jets blead the carbs and kicked it 1 time then turned on the choke , kicked it again and it fired right up.... ran like a champ.... and idled great she really sounds good when she's running right!
....
but Why do I have to do that every time I want to ride it ? that is unreal it's gott'a be the fuel because back in my youth nobody I ever talked to had this problem.... getting them started was the big issue back then ... not idling !
(and that was usually the points! )
the only thing I can think of is todays fuel ...but that really doesn't make too much sense but given at how small the pilot jets are (takes the smallest wire I have in the carb wire cleaning probe kit...) it could be moisture plugging them up... if it were ran every day I'm sure there would be no problem.... but I don't know that for a fact.
.....
Just the mark of the beast I guess.... she wants to be ran more often than she's getting HA !
.....
any ideas ?

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Old July 5th, 2022, 06:18 AM   #12
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4 or 5 different variations of Stabil exist...which are you using? Needs to be ridden to actually mix up (and into carb set)
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Old July 5th, 2022, 08:28 PM   #13
Bob KellyIII
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I've got sta-bul 360 performance...
....
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Old September 10th, 2022, 01:16 PM   #14
Bob KellyIII
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And I must say it works very well indeed..... I put a ounce or so in the half full gas tank of the generator some 4 or 5 years ago... drug the generator out a few days ago took the shop broom to it and dusted it off turned on the gas and gave it 2 pulls and it fired right up and ran like a top..... that is AMAZING !
.... i just wish I had done that sooner as I lost all the food in the freezer !
I just didn't think it would run at all... i figured I'ed have to pull the carb and clean the fuel system but nope ! I did syphon some gas out of the RX4 and add to the gas after the fact and ran it some more....
the generator is practically bran new a 3600watt from Harbor freight tools
and it has served me well.
....
so I will get more of that stuff, the STA-BUL 360 does indeed work !
because I know for a fact that gas was 4 to 5 years old ! at a minimum !
...
that is the same stuff I put in the bikes... I think I bought 2 containers of it and I only have a tiny bit left in one.... so I put more than they called for per gallon in the gas tanks ! LOL.....
....
Bob.......
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Old September 11th, 2022, 01:43 PM   #15
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Stabil 360 Marine = the shizzle for fuel, storage and/or in constant usage.
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Old September 15th, 2022, 12:39 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
And I must say it works very well indeed..... I put a ounce or so in the half full gas tank of the generator some 4 or 5 years ago... drug the generator out a few days ago took the shop broom to it and dusted it off turned on the gas and gave it 2 pulls and it fired right up and ran like a top..... that is AMAZING !
.... i just wish I had done that sooner as I lost all the food in the freezer !
I just didn't think it would run at all... i figured I'ed have to pull the carb and clean the fuel system but nope ! I did syphon some gas out of the RX4 and add to the gas after the fact and ran it some more....
the generator is practically bran new a 3600watt from Harbor freight tools
and it has served me well.
....
so I will get more of that stuff, the STA-BUL 360 does indeed work !
because I know for a fact that gas was 4 to 5 years old ! at a minimum !
...
that is the same stuff I put in the bikes... I think I bought 2 containers of it and I only have a tiny bit left in one.... so I put more than they called for per gallon in the gas tanks ! LOL.....
....
Bob.......
Use the Stabil 360 Marine, it has twice concentration as other variations.

How large are atmostpheric vents on these Triumph carbs? I've found that plugging carb vent-tube down by rear-shock really lets Ninja 250 sit through winter without any problems. Less evaporation of carbs to cause clogging and less moisture sneaking in to separate petrol and ethanol.

Of course, draining carbs and running them dry will also work, but more trouble than just a cork. Since I really don't know how long bike will sit.

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; September 15th, 2022 at 08:58 PM.
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Old September 15th, 2022, 04:46 PM   #17
Bob KellyIII
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well, each carb on the triumph has a prime button in it that you press down till gas comes out under the button and runs all over the place...sloppy but very effective...
so that vent is always open to the atmosphere.
I usually will turn off the gas on both sides of the gastank and then run the bike till it runs out of gas (like when I am storing it for winter)
but strangely enough i haven't knoticed that practice helping in keeping those jets clear as it sets for a few months.... I think it does but I have to be very sure to get the carbs dry for it to help and that is more hassel than it is worth some times !
I think I will see if there are drain screws on those new Amil carbs and just drain them for this winter as the gas leaked out due to a leaking seal under the petcock a few months ago and I've not re filled the tank
.... although I should re fill the tank and put some Sta-bul Marine in it for the winter ...I don't want to leave it empty or it will rust ! ....
My plan this summer was to clean the shed and get all the bikes under cover
in there for this coming winter, but that isn't looking very likely at this time
looks like the bike covers is all that will protect them again.
I have to start getting rid of some of this Junk around here as it is starting to take over.....and I am running out of places to put things !
....
I've got a Doctor appointment in 2 weeks 70 miles away to run some tests on my arm and see why it is going dead on me every once in a while....i already know intermittent shorts are extremely hard to find and near impossible if they are working at the time, but the doctors are going to try and find out what the problem is..... I wonder if I can tell them just to re wire the whole thing ? LOL ( I better not, they might be able to do that !)
but anything to keep my right arm from going completely lifeless at times
I can't handle that !!!! so surgery for the shoulder or elbow is probably in the near future.... woopie what fun !
....seems like every time I get working on a project for about 2 weeks it starts acting up..... very inconvenient !
I haven't done anything but mess with tin can camp stoves for about a month now and my arm has been fine.... i guess it's wore out ! LOL...
.... and I haven't done any bike riding this summer at all just a few jaunts,
but getting that suspension setup on the RX4 is what aggravated it I think.
so it's time to back off wrench turning for a while ! ...UGH !
.....
later all
Bob......
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