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Old March 1st, 2020, 02:03 PM   #41
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And let's just say hypothetically there's nothing wrong with the carburetors. Could my timing be off or something along those lines
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Old March 1st, 2020, 06:55 PM   #42
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Would not hurt to check valve-clearances and cam-timing. But... those would tend to cause running issues at all RPM-ranges, including idle. Not just specific RPM spot.
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Old March 1st, 2020, 06:57 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JmcEx2fifty View Post
I've never changed any of the parts in the carbs and the fact that the pilot screws we're exposed does that mean that someone else had gotten into it before? Or are they exposed stock. And can somebody give me the stator output values please
Yes, someone's been in those carbs. At this age, it's pretty much impossible to find bone-stock carbs anymore. Even stock carbs of this age can have issues due to rubber parts hardening and cracking. Such as slide-diaphragms no longer sealing and not lifting slides in-step with vacuum. This would cause high-RPM issues as vacuum increases with RPM.

Do you mean stator-output pre-RR? Each of three coil outputs should be 56-60 VAC @4000rpm.
Output after RR should be 14-15 VDC @4000rpm.

Raw AC voltage rises with RPM. So any issues caused by charging system would be worse at idle when voltage is lowest. Besides, battery stores charge and if it's 12.6v or above, it will mask any problems of charging-system as electrical-system would run off battery and work perfectly fine even if stator and/or RR are defective.

1. what voltage do you measure at battery before starting bike?
2. what voltage do you measure at battery with bike running at idle?
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Old March 8th, 2020, 07:51 AM   #44
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Exclamation

Ok let's start with my findings of a fuel issue and an issue with the slides due to having pod filters. Pulled the petcock apart and re-engineered it to be an on-and-off, no vacuum required perfect flow every time and my carbs do not leak. Does great until seven or eight thousand RPM and then falls on its face with wide open throttle. If I leave it at about quarter throttle it'll climb through till 9 thousand or so. And I am going back over to the advice of warming it up and going wide open throttle for 5 seconds and then cutting the ignition and checking the plugs to see what my mixture is like. will report results
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Old March 8th, 2020, 07:59 AM   #45
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Oh also forgot to add about the slides. So I understand being constant velocity they need to maintain a certain amount of vacuum in order to function properly ie more throttle more vacuum should open the slides further in my case the shape of the inside of the filter I'm using is a small enough diameter at the opening that the air is basically being shot straight down the center mostly bypassing the inlet for the slides. I modified my setup to direct more air towards the inlet for the slides and proof between that and my petcock I believe ive solved a lot of my fuel issues but not all.... still awesome to have it on the road..
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Old March 8th, 2020, 08:35 AM   #46
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Hey, good job on resolving some of these issues! What flow-rate did you end up getting out of petcock?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JmcEx2fifty View Post
And I am goin back over to the advice of warming it up and going wide open throttle for 5 seconds and then cutting the ignition and checking the plugs to see what my mixture is like. will report results
There's missing step:

1. Fully warm up engine
2. Install brand-new plugs
3. Run engine WOT to problem area
4. Hold engine there for 5-sec
5. Chop throttle and kill engine simultaneously
6. Immediately pull plugs and take photo

Even with new plugs, they will have an average reading from idle up to your problem spot. Holding for 5-sec will hopefully override that average reading. But still nowhere nearly as accurate as wideband O2-sensor with datalogging.
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Old March 8th, 2020, 09:00 AM   #47
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Also 2-to-1 exhaust would optimize mid-range torque and have less flow in high-end. Way to match fueling is to have needles without sudden change at end but more gradual taper to thicker tip. This adds fuel to mid-range and removes from high-end. Then adjust mid-range by clip-position or washers.




One way to test is to run without exhaust and see if it makes it past mid-range stumble.
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Old March 8th, 2020, 10:07 AM   #48
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Didn't check flow rate I installed a clear fuel line install right off the bat that as soon as I started riding the line went from Full to a 6 inch air bubble from the tank down and was barely trickling out of the petcock the O-ring from the diaphragm came apart and got stuck in the on off valve. Cleared it and altered it to no longer require vacuum plugged off both of the vacuums on the carburetors. Soon as I hooked the fuel line back up and opened it fuel slammed all the way up to the tank in the blink of an eye on it and I kept checking it while I took a 10-minute ride and even when I was getting on it until it would bog down and it never once has had any supply problem yet
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Old March 8th, 2020, 10:11 AM   #49
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Til wot 6-7k .... f***
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Old March 9th, 2020, 07:50 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JmcEx2fifty View Post
Til wot 6-7k .... f***
Is that in neutral or when riding? Summary of conditions as I understand:
  • previously, petcock wasn't fully flowing. With non-vacuum mod, it flows as much as it can, whatever that number is.
  • idles fine
  • revs up fine in neutral? All way to redline?
  • dies in mid-range when actually riding under WOT load 6-7K RPMs


How does it behave with second thinner-tip needle compared to stock?
What size main-jets are in there?
What size pilot-jets are in there?
What voltage-measurements did you gather to test charging system?

With quantified measurable data, your configuration can be repeated for troubleshooting. Anyone can go modify their configuration to match yours exactly and see how it performs and then we have more useable data for comparison.
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Old March 12th, 2020, 11:12 AM   #51
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Okay so I never switched the needles yet because I still wanted to get absolutely everything solved before I did that to see if it was even necessary. My problem was air flow like I thought the pods I have were too restricted as soon as I pulled them off completely just as an experiment and ran it without anything on it yeah it ran like **** it's a lower range because obviously I have no back pressure for the slides but as soon as it hit 6-7k instead of cutting out like before now I basically I'm smoking the tires hahaha almost wheelies over. So I'm just trying to work out a happy median now on my air supply. I currently have the 250 cluster so I'm not even sure what the red line on the 500 is supposed to be. I'm going to go back and check that voltage you are asking for today sometime. I don't know what came loose but something's up with my blinkers right now and I'm pissed because I had them working perfect all the lights work and everything. But putting fairings on and off and pulling my carb in and out and all the other stuff I've been messing with is probably the cause. Anyways Danny I'm just trying to get everything I'm capable of fixing and diagnosing 100% out of the way and then whatever problems I have remaining I would like your help to troubleshoot and I appreciate all the help from everybody up to this point it's been entertaining as hell. I'm going to build a custom airbox and it is going to work perfectly god dammit. And if there's any pessimists in this room keep it to yourself hahaha. More updates soon.
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Old March 12th, 2020, 11:23 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JmcEx2fifty View Post
My problem was air flow like I thought the pods I have were too restricted as soon as I pulled them off completely just as an experiment and ran it without anything on it yeah it ran like **** it's a lower range because obviously I have no back pressure for the slides but as soon as it hit 6-7k instead of cutting out like before now I basically I'm smoking the tires hahaha almost wheelies over. So I'm just trying to work out a happy median now on my air supply.
Ah, looks like you found problem, awesome!!!
Just need some bigger less-restrictive filters!
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Old March 12th, 2020, 11:27 AM   #53
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Yes sir I am trying to go up in size slowly so I can figure out right when I start to lose my mid range.
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Old April 5th, 2020, 06:48 PM   #54
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...

Getting ready to sync carbs.
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Old April 6th, 2020, 10:40 AM   #55
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Nice man, looks awesome!
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Old April 7th, 2020, 10:28 AM   #56
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Thank you Northern. Next I think I'm going to throw these 500 Forks on it because I just blew my fork seals from an event I'd rather not talk about LOL. And I really want to get some good tires because these hard rubber 16in shinkos only can handle so much lean and speed before I'm sliding the **** out. Just feeling the difference between my uncle's track tires and my brand new shinkos. I'd take his used track tires anyday.
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Old April 7th, 2020, 11:52 AM   #57
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I forgot the pregen had 16's, I don't know what options are even available for that, if you do go up to the 17 you'll have a lot more choice. I have sometimes run shinko's (can't tell you the model off the top of my head) when i'm looking to save money, I can get get right out to the sidewall pretty much on warm dry pavement, but I don't like the feel from them. my preferred tire is the Bridgestone battlaxe BT-45, it's a dual compound with pretty good characteristics all around. I go through 3-4 sets a year so i've been experimenting lately but it's still my favourite all around for our bikes.

As for forks, to my knowledge, the pregen forks are 36mm, the new gen 250, and the 500, are both 37mm. switching to a new fork diameter is often a pain. I'm not sure if you can get away with 1mm by using a shim or something, someone else will have to answer that. But if you're going through the whole process of changing out tripples, you'd be better to go with a modern fork with all the adjustments. Otherwise, i'd suggest just doing a good setup on the forks you have, changing springs, spacers, oil weight and amount, ETC, will allow you to get the proper sag and damping for you and your bike, it just won't be adjustable. You've seriously modified the bike and it's weight distrubution, the forks should be readjusted to compensate. @DannoXYZ might be the best bet on this one, since he races I assume he has his suspension dialed in.
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Old April 9th, 2020, 03:55 PM   #58
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Early EX500 forks are 36mm.
Later EX500 forks are 37mm.
Set of vernier calipers are your friend...

Use spring-rate calulator on https://www.racetech.com/ProductSear...250R/1986-2007

Depending upon your weight and riding-style, variety of spring-rates are recommended. Someone recently even put some springs from K1100 after chopping to proper length to fit and it turned out perfect. For street-use, close-enough is fine, you'll probably never notice differences.
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Old April 13th, 2020, 03:06 PM   #59
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Guys... I'm done. ****. I need a pregen tank . color doesn't matter as long as it doesn't leak my bike just tipped over and pushed the fairing bolt through the tank. Blew out my headlight and front upper fairing is in half
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Old April 14th, 2020, 01:06 AM   #60
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Sad day. Found a rev video cheered me up a little dunno if it will upload I'll try
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Old April 16th, 2020, 12:47 PM   #61
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So this happened last night... maybe my luck is changing both are 2006 and i got all the plastics for 1 complete bike...
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Old April 16th, 2020, 03:14 PM   #62
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Cant forget my baby. Oh and I got her a present I'm hella excited
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Old April 16th, 2020, 05:43 PM   #63
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Haha I should just leave it like that it looks cool raked out lmao. Anyways swapping out the blown Forks. And I'm going to rebuild this other set with stronger Springs and heavier oil
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Old April 18th, 2020, 03:16 AM   #64
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Good to hear you found some new parts man!
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Old April 18th, 2020, 06:49 PM   #65
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Yeah I'm happy gonna have 2 more 250's in the next couple months
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Old April 18th, 2020, 06:52 PM   #66
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Well back to the 500. I think this will be how the intake stays. Foind some 47mm uni pods. Next I think will be a full carb rebuild and jets. I'm getting the infamous midrange stumble now.
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Old April 18th, 2020, 06:52 PM   #67
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Can somebody tell me why all my damn pictures come through upside down after they upload
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Old April 18th, 2020, 09:07 PM   #68
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What camera are you using? Two items of interest.

1. Pixel 0,0 of image (upper left) stays in same place no matter which way you rotate camera. Stored along with picture is extra pieces of metadata (EXIF), which is missing from your images. One of EXIF data is info on rotation/orientation of camera when it took photo. This helps display software figure out how to rotate picture for proper display (Windows8+). However, there's lots of software that ignores EXIF rotation info (Windows7-). You can use software to rotate image by moving pixels themselves or by editing only EXIF data (or use built-in camera editor). https://www.xnview.com/en/

2. There's two rotations of camera in landscape mode. One has camera at upper edge while other has camera at lower edge. Figure out which way you've been laying camera sideways and use other way. Sure it may be more awkward and requires you using other hand to push shutter button, but it certainly saves time compared to having to edit each and every picture before uploading.


This one's not upside down, just make sure you rotate camera to same orientation as when you took this photo.

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Old April 24th, 2020, 10:20 AM   #69
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Thanks Danny I'll just experiment and see which way the camera was facing. Quick question for everybody when setting valve clearance. Is it correct when the feeler gauge has to be slightly forced in between the lifter and rocker? Or is correct when it can move freely in between
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