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Old March 15th, 2018, 10:28 AM   #1
94droptop
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Tires for a Trackday noob

So I building a budget track day bike. What tires should I purchase? I have never done a track day before, but have been riding various bike (not the 250) for about 5 years. Keep budget and my noobness in mind. Would the Diablo scooter tires be good option for me? Looks like Id be in the 150 to 200 range. Or do I go with the Demons for 250+ This bike will not be ridden on the street ever. No title or plates
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Old March 15th, 2018, 10:56 AM   #2
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No experience with the scooter tires, but in general:

If you're a total novice on the track, it's going to be awhile before you really need sticky tires. Initially your pace will be a lot like a spirited street ride. How fast you progress depends on you... some of the people I see at every single track day are still riding rather slowly.

Having said that....

Sticky rubber is a real confidence booster and is one less thing to worry about. 90 percent of this is in your head. If you've got nagging doubts it really inhibits you.

Having said THAT....

Equipment like sticky tires can sometimes mask mistakes, which you'll make a lot of as you learn.

If it were me, and the few bucks really are a make-or-break thing, I'd start on the cheaper tires and start saving immediately for better rubber and more track time. If it's just "I've got the money but I'd rather not spend it," I'd go for the better tire.

Here's the thing about the track and money: If you really get bit by the bug... and chances are you will... your wallet will never be the same. I advise you to grab every single opportunity you can to set money aside.

I have a piggy bank that I put cash into whenever I can. I bring my lunch to work and don't go out much. I ask for track gift certificates for holiday gifts. I buy the membership and ride enough to make the cost of each day as low as possible. My organization offers a pre-pay cash discount that I use every time. The tire guy offers discounts to members so I buy tires from him. I camp at the track instead of going to a hotel. I cook for myself instead of buying food at the track. etc. etc. etc.

It's only mid-march, and I've already got enough set aside to pay for next year's membership and one weekend. By the time I hit the track for the first time in May, I'll probably be most of the way to paying for the whole season.
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Old March 15th, 2018, 11:40 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94droptop View Post
So I building a budget track day bike. What tires should I purchase? I have never done a track day before, but have been riding various bike (not the 250) for about 5 years. Keep budget and my noobness in mind. Would the Diablo scooter tires be good option for me? Looks like Id be in the 150 to 200 range. Or do I go with the Demons for 250+ This bike will not be ridden on the street ever. No title or plates
We had 2 Ninjas - one with new MT75s and one with new Diablo Scooters.

My son liked the Diablo Scooters better, and said they never surprised him (he rides pretty aggressively...).

I have personally found that Pirelli tires (we've had 4 sets of auto and cycle) are very good initially, but degrade quickly. Their rubber compound dries and cracks, and traction tapers off, before it should IMO.

Just something to consider.
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Old March 15th, 2018, 11:44 AM   #4
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this is from Z1R Rider from when they were on 16" rims

here's a copy and paste from an earlier post I made on tires: all are pre-gens with 16" wheels

We have 5 Ninjettes in the family and they all have different tires and I've ridden all of them on the street and 4 on the track. First let me say that they all have a different "feel" when riding, none have a bad feeling (like the stock Dunlops) just different.

Bike one has Metzeler Laser Tec 100-90 on front 130-90 on rear, this is my personal favorite on the track or the street, very stable on the straights or the corners, turns in quickly and holds it's line. It seems that the tread doesn't wrap around as far as the others as it has no "chicken strips" left on front or rear, or maybe I push harder on them because they feel good to me.

Bike two has Shinko SR740 100-80 on front and SR741 130-80 on the rear, contrary to "wiki; Shinko tires: No better than the Dunlop K630" these are a surprise!! they are good enough to take the stock forks to their limit, you can drag footpegs all day long with them, stoppies, no problem! Turn in is quicker than the Metzelers, and they feel a little bit "twitchy", but never scared me. One of the racers on a 300 was amazed when he came to our pit and saw it has Shinkos.

Bike three has Pirelli MT75s 100-80 front and 120-80 rear, turn in is quick like the Shinkos, and are a little twitchy, but no unhappy surprises. Shorter rear tire lets the pegs drag sooner than the others.

Bike four has Pirelli Sport Demon 110-90 front and 130-90 rear, turn in is a little heavier than the others but no where near as heavy as a 600 or 1000. Is stable everywhere and taller front tire gives extra cornering clearance, feels to me like it wants to stand up in the corners. Had to move the front fender up to clear the tire.

Bike five has the Pirelli Diablo Scooter tires, 100-80 front and 130-80 rear, I haven't ridden on the track with this bike, but on the street it's the only one that I've had the rear "step out" on the 1-2 shift. Might be it just needs a little more heat in it to grip good.

None of the bikes have enough miles to say which one will last the longest, the Metzeler is, by quite a bit, the most expensive of the bunch, and if past experience means anything, the rear will last around 7000 miles and the front about double that.

and this is form cbreater and we have 17" rims on them now

We have a slew of pre-gen 250’s in our camp with various states of tune but here is what we have and my personal take on the set ups. I have not ridden any of these on the street, only at the track. YMMV
All have GSX-R rear shocks tuned to the owners riding preference for feel and tire wear. Front suspension is set up as follows:

1 with GVE, cut stock springs to get roughly .70 and if I recall, 30wt fork oil. Not sure what pop off spring is being used. This is stiff, hydraulic stiff. Originally it had 2” cut off the stock springs and a lighter weight oil but was somewhat softly sprung. This setup offered good compliance and feel but was soft for hard braking. Stiffer springs were added but then the rebound wasn’t enough to slow down the return stroke. Thicker oil was added to calm the rebound and that worked great but now it feels hydraulically stiff on compression and does not offer the feel of the softer set up. This is running RS10 tires. I’m sure this will get sorted out over winter to soften it back up.

1 with GVE, .75 Sonic springs, 30wt fork oil. Not sure what pop off spring is being used. This is stiff, hydraulic stiff. Originally it had 2” cut off the stock springs and a lighter weight oil but was somewhat softly sprung. This setup offered good compliance and feel but was soft for hard braking. Stiffer springs were added but then the rebound wasn’t enough to slow down the return stroke. Thicker oil was added to calm the rebound and that worked great but now it feels hydraulically stiff on compression and does not offer the feel of the softer set up. This is running Alpha 13 tires. I’m sure this will get sorted out over winter to soften it back up. Essentially the same set up as above but with different springs. They feel very similar to each other (as they should being set up almost identical).

1 with Ricor Intiminators, 2” cut off stock springs, 5wt oil. This bike is pretty well sorted and offers good feel on the front. This is running Alpha 13 tires. This is a softer sprung but very well damped set up. Stiffer would be nice on this set up to hold the front up under hard braking better but otherwise a good set up with lots of feel.

1 with Ricor Intiminators, .75 Sonic springs, 5wt oil, forks lowered in triples, Big Boy links to raise bike 1” at the pegs. This bike is running SuperCorsa tires. This bike offers the best compromise (in my opinion, the others may chime in and prefer their own set up) of stiff yet compliant. Offers fantastic front end feel and bump compliance while supporting the front end well under hard braking. This is my personal choice for best feeling setup for fast laps. This set up offers almost the same feel as above (as it should being set up almost identical) but with better chassis support with the stiffer front springs.

IMO, the Ricor set up is the way to go. No, you cannot tune them like you can the GVE, but in my experience it looks like you don’t need to in order to achieve a great feeling front end. If you spend enough time with the GVE I’m sure they can be tuned to be as good or better than the Ricor but to get going with little fuss, get the Ricor and enjoy your new suspension."
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Old March 15th, 2018, 12:06 PM   #5
94droptop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
We had 2 Ninjas - one with new MT75s and one with new Diablo Scooters.

My son liked the Diablo Scooters better, and said they never surprised him (he rides pretty aggressively...).

I have personally found that Pirelli tires (we've had 4 sets of auto and cycle) are very good initially, but degrade quickly. Their rubber compound dries and cracks, and traction tapers off, before it should IMO.

Just something to consider.
So did you prefer the MT75 then? I found a Diablo front but its from Dec. 13. Still new but I think it might be to old for me to want to try it. but for $36 im kinda tempted
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Old March 15th, 2018, 12:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94droptop View Post
So did you prefer the MT75 then? I found a Diablo front but its from Dec. 13. Still new but I think it might be to old for me to want to try it. but for $36 im kinda tempted
He liked the Diablo Scooters better than the MTs, but all the Pirelli tires I've owned have done the same thing - deteriorated quickly.

Dec 13 2017 is very fresh. That's a good price.
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Old March 15th, 2018, 12:41 PM   #7
94droptop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
He liked the Diablo Scooters better than the MTs, but all the Pirelli tires I've owned have done the same thing - deteriorated quickly.

Dec 13 2017 is very fresh. That's a good price.
No december of 2013
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Old March 15th, 2018, 01:17 PM   #8
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For street, longevity > grip because of cost and the nature of the ride (low stress, no need for ultimate grip on the edge of the tire).

For track, grip > longevity because it's about confidence and performance, not saving pennies.

Don't overthink this. First few days the pace is not going to push your tires to the limit. Just make sure there's enough life left in 'em, set pressures appropriately, and focus on the ride. You've only got so much mental energy. Spend it where it'll do the most good, which is on YOU and your riding.
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Old March 15th, 2018, 02:57 PM   #9
94droptop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
For street, longevity > grip because of cost and the nature of the ride (low stress, no need for ultimate grip on the edge of the tire).

For track, grip > longevity because it's about confidence and performance, not saving pennies.

Don't overthink this. First few days the pace is not going to push your tires to the limit. Just make sure there's enough life left in 'em, set pressures appropriately, and focus on the ride. You've only got so much mental energy. Spend it where it'll do the most good, which is on YOU and your riding.
Ill just start with something budget friendly to start, and upgrade as I go. Thanks for the advice guys
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Old March 15th, 2018, 03:20 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by 94droptop View Post
No december of 2013
That's too old to consider IMO, but others will disagree...
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Old March 15th, 2018, 03:46 PM   #11
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That's too old to consider IMO, but others will disagree...
Im going to pass. I think im going to go with a pair of the shinko that was semi recommended above. I wont be pushing this bike for a bit. So they should do the trick for the first year. I can reevaluate weather I need better next year.
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Old March 15th, 2018, 04:20 PM   #12
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Here's a list of what is available for the Pre Gen (16") - https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What_t...fit_the_250%3F

Just so you know your options.
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Old March 15th, 2018, 04:38 PM   #13
94droptop
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Looks like I can actually get cheap mt75's from italy. Anyone ever done that. $170 Shipped.
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