Seized engine

[Hawaiininja]

Well not having the best luck. A month ago a bolt came loose on mybike while on the freeway and this bolt secured the coolant line leaving me with a dead over heated engine. Yesterday I recived a replacement engine in the mail purchased off ebay. Stated to have 5k miles and in great running condition. Got it all installed with ease and fluids filled only to be greeted with a thunk as the starter tried to turn the motor but failed.

I tried a different started and a fully charged battery with same results. Pulled the spark plugs which were wet with oil and still not able to turn the motor over.

I've contacted the seller and he claims it worked perfectly before shipping it. I want to believe him because who would be dumb enough to sell a seized engine on ebay where the buyers almost always win in any dispute.

Anything else I can try or any thoughts as to what may have happened to it? I don't think it would have been damaged in shipping.

[ninjamunky85]

Have you tried turning the engine over manually? How much oil was on the spark plugs? Seems a little strange to me.

[Hawaiininja]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

Have you tried turning the engine over manually? How much oil was on the spark plugs? Seems a little strange to me.

Coated with oil and easily enough to wipe onto finger. I have not tried to turn it over manually how should I do that?

[Kevin H]

The oil may have seeped past the rings during shipping if the engine was turned upside down. Leave the plugs out, remove the flywheel bolt hole cover and try and turn the engine with a socket wrench.

[Hawaiininja]

Originally Posted by Kevin H

The oil may have seeped past the rings during shipping if the engine was turned upside down. Leave the plugs out, remove the flywheel bolt hole cover and try and turn the engine with a socket wrench.

Just gave that a shot, put a fair amount of pressure without it budging at all.

[ninjamunky85]

Originally Posted by Hawaiininja

Just gave that a shot, put a fair amount of pressure without it budging at all.

That's not good. It should turn over fairly easily.

[Hawaiininja]

Transmission will not shift either. I can get it into neutral and 2nd but wont go any higher or go into 1st.

[ninjamunky85]

That's normal, it wont shift properly unless you're moving.

[Hawaiininja]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

That's normal, it wont shift properly unless you're moving.

Thought that was the case but I'm just grasping for any clue as to whats happened to it
Went ahead and sprayed the penetrating oil into the cylinders but I just dont see how it could have seized up between the seller claiming it works perfectly to my door step a week later.

[Hawaiininja]

Just tried hand cranking my old engine for comparison and it is very easy to turn. Not looking good

[csmith12]

Has the engine been sitting for a while? Condensation can cause rust on the cylinder walls and somewhat feel like a seized up engine. If it has been sitting and if the seller will not take it back or make it right. Here is the hillbilly fix (hopefully).

1. remove spark plugs
2. spray a generous amount wd-40 into each cylinder
3. put about 2 tablespoons of oil into each cylinder
4. wait 24 hours
5. try to turn by hand

If it will not budge, spray more wd-40 into the cylinder and wait 24 hours again and try again to turn by hand.

Hopefully you can get it moving again but it just might take some more than gentle persuasion.

Best of luck!

[Motofool]

Victor,

Before jumping into deep surgery, consider a return as a cheaper alternative (better repair your original engine than a strange one).

We are assuming here that the cylinders-pistons are frozen, but it could be internal damage, such as melted bearing, jumped timing chain, bent rods, a loose part inside, heavy rusting or anything else.

Did you receive the engine with any fluids inside?
That would be a key point against the seller.

There should not be reason for this to happen if the engine was dry and properly working short before the shipment.

Here is a useful article in case your problem is simply sticky parts:

http://www.dansmc.com/stuck_engine.htm

[n4mwd]

@Hawaiininja, I suggest that you make a video showing exactly what is going on when you try to start it or turn it by hand. Make sure its on the center stand with the rear tire off the ground when you do. Don't mention the seller by name, but say "got it from a guy on ebay". Then post it to youtube and send the seller the link. If he has any sense, he will act on that and probably issue a refund.

[Hawaiininja]

Well the seller offered a refund on the cost of engine but not shipping (half the cost) so I do believe when he sent it, it was working or he wouldnt have so readily offered a refund.

I still find it strange that it will not shift out of 2nd. Anything more to that? I've tried disengaging the clutch, spinning the wheel by hand and shifting but still will not move out of 2nd other than into neutral.

[Hawaiininja]

And the next question is how ridiculous of an idea is it to take my orig overheated but nont seized engine apart and fix this oen (he will let me keep the engine if he refunds it)

[n4mwd]

You can take them both apart and get parts out of both to combine into a single working engine. As long as you don't have to buy new bearings, then its not that expensive either. Its just a matter of time and know how.

[Hawaiininja]

Well got final word from eBay. They have sided in my favor and will refund the cost of the engine and shipping....as soon as I ship it back which will be $300 out of my pocket with nothing to show for it.

So I'm back to the idea of taking apart both engines and fixing one. Would anyone like to take a guess as to where I should start to look on the engine that will not turn at all? I still find it very strange that it will not shift out of 2nd or neutral either which is making me think the problem lies in the crank case. (cant think of a problem anywhere else that could cause a shifting problem and to lock up the engine(though I don't see why disengaging the clutch would not allow the engine to turn)

[alex.s]

could it simply be the positive neutral finder?

i've jammed a transmission before and was able to reassemble and run it for awhile before another bearing blew out... i would say just open them up and take a look

[Hawaiininja]

Originally Posted by alex.s

could it simply be the positive neutral finder?

i've jammed a transmission before and was able to reassemble and run it for awhile before another bearing blew out... i would say just open them up and take a look

But could a jammed transmission keep the engine form turning over even with the clutch disengaged?

I'm pretty confident the engine did work when the seller sent it and it was damaged while shipping so something that is likely to be damaged by an impact, keep the engine from turning at all, and keep the bike from shifting.

[alex.s]

it shouldn't. i would start by taking off the side covers and looking at things... if everything is alright maybe go ahead and split the case... if there was something damaged i would expect to see shrapnel when you change the oil or open the side covers but it might all be trapped by the oil screen... if there was shrapnel and he shipped it after emptying all the fluids, its possible some pieces are floating around in the case and fell into an area that has jammed the crank or something.

[n4mwd]

If it was damaged in shipping it would be obvious - like a cracked case or something like that. Anyhow, when it comes to engines and big stuff like that, I prefer to deal with sellers where I can pick up in person.

On ebay if a seller sent me a bad item, I make them pay for return shipping or they don't get it back. If its my fault (decided I didn't want it), then I pay shipping. If they don't agree, then I call the credit card company up and cancel the charges.

[Hawaiininja]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

If it was damaged in shipping it would be obvious - like a cracked case or something like that. Anyhow, when it comes to engines and big stuff like that, I prefer to deal with sellers where I can pick up in person.

On ebay if a seller sent me a bad item, I make them pay for return shipping or they don't get it back. If its my fault (decided I didn't want it), then I pay shipping. If they don't agree, then I call the credit card company up and cancel the charges.

Yea I would have much preferred to deal with it in person but Hawaii makes it hard. I rarely have problems with ebay so when I had the option of $650 including shipping for $950 locally I went with ebay :/

I had not thought of canceling charges with my credit card. Do you know if this will result in paypal or ebay closing your account or putting your balance in the negative?

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Hawaiininja

Yea I would have much preferred to deal with it in person but Hawaii makes it hard. I rarely have problems with ebay so when I had the option of $650 including shipping for $950 locally I went with ebay :/

I had not thought of canceling charges with my credit card. Do you know if this will result in paypal or ebay closing your account or putting your balance in the negative?

I don't know what their policies are, but I know that a lot of ebay sellers take credit cards that are processed through paypal. You don't have to have a paypal account to pay with a credit card. In either case, I would discuss it with them because they plaster "buyer protection" stuff all over the place.

Basically, if the seller said it ran and you get it and find that its locked up, then the seller is trying to scam you and scams are covered the last time I checked.

[Hawaiininja]

Heh the buyer protection doesnt do you much good when shipping costs are an issue. Havent heard from the seller in 2 weeks now but I did have UPS come by today, and surprisingly they are actually going to approve the insurance claim. Unfortunately the claim goes to him not to me. I'm hoping he will appreciate that I took the effort to get the claim filed but if that doesnt work I'll be file a chrage back with my credit card.

Also considering UPS approved the claim (pretty damn rare from what I understand) they seem to really think it was damaged by them. So Im going to open it up today and see what I can find.

[n4mwd]

I would wait until UPS actually pays for it before I took it apart.

As far as ebay, every time I order something the fact that they claim they cover shipping too is plastered all over the place. Not sure about return shipping. If they have already credited your paypal account, I wouldn't try to send it back unless someone else agrees to pay the cost.

[Hawaiininja]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I would wait until UPS actually pays for it before I took it apart.

As far as ebay, every time I order something the fact that they claim they cover shipping too is plastered all over the place. Not sure about return shipping. If they have already credited your paypal account, I wouldn't try to send it back unless someone else agrees to pay the cost.

Yep return shipping is the trap. They will not pay for that. I havent recieved any money back yet and wont recieve any back until I either ship back the engine ($300) or the seller agrees to refund me.

UPS said I can do what I want with the engine so I'm going to go ahead and try to fix it and wait till monday to hear back from the seller to see if he will issue a refund otherwise charge back it is

I leave Hawaii in under 2 weeks, so much for being able to ride before I ended up freezing my ass off in portland.

[n4mwd]

Funny, I may be in a similar boat. I ordered a new helmet on ebay and it came today. I ordered large and they shipped an XXSmall with a "large" sticker on it. I measured the inner circumference and its clearly an XXSmall. My head still hurts from trying it on and I only had it on for 5 seconds. So anyway, I'm having to go through the same thing you did only on a smaller scale. I'll see how ebay handles it.

[Hawaiininja]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Funny, I may be in a similar boat. I ordered a new helmet on ebay and it came today. I ordered large and they shipped an XXSmall with a "large" sticker on it. I measured the inner circumference and its clearly an XXSmall. My head still hurts from trying it on and I only had it on for 5 seconds. So anyway, I'm having to go through the same thing you did only on a smaller scale. I'll see how ebay handles it.

Good luck! hopefully your seller has good business ethics.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Hawaiininja

Good luck! hopefully your seller has good business ethics.

He emailed me and said that he would take it back. But he lied and said I was the only one to complain. That's such an old lie, you'd think they would come up with a better one by now. This helmet is so small that if you put it on a newborn, it would pop his brain like a big zit. Its been an hour since I tried it on and my head still hurts. There is no way in hell that I'm the only one to complain.

He wants to send me some new padding. I pulled the earpads out and it mostly fits, but its still to short in the chin. My chin hits the front and that's pretty uncomfortable. So I'm thinking its going back.