ninjette.org

Go Back   ninjette.org > 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R > 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 6th, 2021, 06:01 AM   #1
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
is a Ultra sonic parts cleaner really necessary ?

I don't have a ultrasonic parts cleaner and I am debating getting one
to clean the "Modern carburetors" with.
Obviously I could use one, because My one and only attempt at cleaning the Ninja carbs didn't get it running perfectly....
and I had the same trouble with the Xs650 carbs... but they were easy to get on and off but it took 3 tries to get them clean !
I'm thinking if I had just dismantled the carbs and dropped them in the tank and let them cook over night that they probably would have been pristeen the first try...
....
does anyone out there have an Ultrasonic parts cleaner that they Use and do they recommend any specific type ? I know some are heated and some are not
Some have fancy timers on them and some are bare basic timers...
but other than that I know nothing about them..... I was thinking of using Vinegar...in it if I got one .... but haven't thought about some of the really harsh chemicals yet.
....
I know Ducati Man has one that he uses and does so on a daily basis, so he must think it is worthwhile right ? LOL
...
for you people out there that have gone to the expense and got one do you use it enough to justify the expense ? does it actually clean like they say it does ? are there some things you better not throw in there ?

thanks in advance for your input !
Bob........
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote




Old October 6th, 2021, 09:46 AM   #2
shspvr
ninjette.org guru
 
Name: Anthony
Location: Vinita, Ok
Join Date: Sep 2021

Motorcycle(s): 07 Kawasaki Ninja 250

Posts: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
I don't have a ultrasonic parts cleaner and I am debating getting one
to clean the "Modern carburetors" with.
Obviously I could use one, because My one and only attempt at cleaning the Ninja carbs didn't get it running perfectly....
and I had the same trouble with the Xs650 carbs... but they were easy to get on and off but it took 3 tries to get them clean !
I'm thinking if I had just dismantled the carbs and dropped them in the tank and let them cook over night that they probably would have been pristeen the first try...
....
does anyone out there have an Ultrasonic parts cleaner that they Use and do they recommend any specific type ? I know some are heated and some are not
Some have fancy timers on them and some are bare basic timers...
but other than that I know nothing about them..... I was thinking of using Vinegar...in it if I got one .... but haven't thought about some of the really harsh chemicals yet.
....
I know Ducati Man has one that he uses and does so on a daily basis, so he must think it is worthwhile right ? LOL
...
for you people out there that have gone to the expense and got one do you use it enough to justify the expense ? does it actually clean like they say it does ? are there some things you better not throw in there ?

thanks in advance for your input !
Bob........
From what I have read
You want at 10l to 15l being there 6" deep for the carb and the Harbor Freight model is to small.
They make Ultrasonic Cleaner Carburetor Solutions it called Elma Tec Clean A4 not cheap.
Other option are Simple Green Pro HD Heavy-Duty 50/50 and Purple ZEP Commercial Degreaser keep under 30 min follow by soda blast cleaning.
There always Berryman Chemp-Dip Professional in 4 gal by good rinsing follow by soda blast cleaning.
There always the Wife going pop you over store and her pot pan on med to high heat LoL
shspvr is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 6th, 2021, 11:23 AM   #3
BonelessSugar
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Cashby
Location: Maine
Join Date: Sep 2021

Motorcycle(s): EX250-F x 3, TW200, NPS50

Posts: 98
Quote:
does anyone out there have an Ultrasonic parts cleaner that they Use and do they recommend any specific type ? I know some are heated and some are not
Not the harbor freight one, too shallow and duty cycle is too low to be very useful. Heated is necessary. Check Craigslist or FBMP for cheapest good ones. Bigger is better and faster and cleaner. Except $100+ min, $300+ realistic if buying new.

Quote:
Some have fancy timers on them and some are bare basic timers...
As long as it doesn't shut itself off after 3min or something, timer type doesn't matter.

Quote:
but other than that I know nothing about them..... I was thinking of using Vinegar...in it if I got one .... but haven't thought about some of the really harsh chemicals yet.
There are solutions made specifically for ultrasonic cleaners, those work better. Not that expensive. Could substitute in pine-sol, not as good.

Quote:
I know Ducati Man has one that he uses and does so on a daily basis, so he must think it is worthwhile right ? LOL
Yes. They operate a business for cleaning carbs, the ROI makes a lot more sense. Also soda-blast. They serve different purposes.

Quote:
for you people out there that have gone to the expense and got one do you use it enough to justify the expense ?
It's cheaper, faster, and gives you the peace of mind that it was done right to pay someone else to do it if you never plan on using an entire cleaning setup more than about 10 times. Plus ultrasonic cleaning is only part of the process that's recommended here. After that, it's more about how you value your time or if you want to do it.

Quote:
does it actually clean like they say it does ?
That depends on what you mean by "like they say it does ?". It's not going to remove chunks of gunk, but it'll surface-clean really well.

Quote:
are there some things you better not throw in there ?
Rubber gaskets or plastic bits, they'll pinhole.
BonelessSugar is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 6th, 2021, 04:05 PM   #4
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
Ahhh ! so I need at least a 10 liter or 15 liter tank to do carbs....OK...good to know.....don't leave the Rubber gaskets on the parts.
.....
and this is the second time someone has said soda blast ...what the heck is that ???? is it the same Soda blast as in sand blasting ? except with the finer soda as a grit ? ....I've never done that to a carb before ! but I have a sand blasting unit somewhere ! LOL sand blasting is a real good way to clean rusty metal down to a nice and shiny surface.... but seams a bit harsh for carb passageways ...but I guess it would spruce up the outside real nice !

.....
thanks for the Input Guys !
Bob......
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 6th, 2021, 04:20 PM   #5
shspvr
ninjette.org guru
 
Name: Anthony
Location: Vinita, Ok
Join Date: Sep 2021

Motorcycle(s): 07 Kawasaki Ninja 250

Posts: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
Ahhh ! so I need at least a 10 liter or 15 liter tank to do carbs....OK...good to know.....don't leave the Rubber gaskets on the parts.
.....
and this is the second time someone has said soda blast ...what the heck is that ???? is it the same Soda blast as in sand blasting ? except with the finer soda as a grit ? ....I've never done that to a carb before ! but I have a sand blasting unit somewhere ! LOL sand blasting is a real good way to clean rusty metal down to a nice and shiny surface.... but seams a bit harsh for carb passageways ...but I guess it would spruce up the outside real nice !

.....
thanks for the Input Guys !
Bob......
No google DIY baking soda blaster
Things you need
Arm & Hammer Baking Soda 1lb or bigger
Harbor Freight Gravity Feed Hand Held Blaster or can make one see this link for DIY Build Your Own Soda Blaster Cheap!

There also Vapor Blasting see Youtube on this process
shspvr is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 6th, 2021, 05:02 PM   #6
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Ultrasonic is just one stage of entire restoration process.

It does not replace scrubbing out secret hidden passages with brushes. It does not replace poking out all bleed holes with soft copper wire. Doesn't replace soda blasting. Doesn't replace installing new rubbers.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 6th, 2021, 05:19 PM   #7
shspvr
ninjette.org guru
 
Name: Anthony
Location: Vinita, Ok
Join Date: Sep 2021

Motorcycle(s): 07 Kawasaki Ninja 250

Posts: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Ultrasonic is just one stage of entire restoration process.

It does not replace scrubbing out secret hidden passages with brushes. It does not replace poking out all bleed holes with soft copper wire. Doesn't replace soda blasting. Doesn't replace installing new rubbers.
Yup ho what fun that process is DannoXYZ
So Bob KellyIII soda blasting is cleaning the outside and float bowl area
shspvr is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 6th, 2021, 05:44 PM   #8
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
back when I had a bike repair shop in south Redding CA. I had a large parts cleaner basin tank that was maintained by someone else.
that was all I had to clean parts with and I used it a bunch !
I did buy a sand blaster to sand blast the underside and back of some 18 wheelers my Dad had to paint... we had a autobody and motorcycle repair shop in the same building at the time... and when things were slow I helped him out for a little extra cash , it worked out good for both of us !
back then, the carbs were not so hard to get clean as they are now days
but with the advent of the constant velocity carbs they got tougher real fast !
....sounds as if it's a TRY everything at your disposal to get them clean including Ultrasonic cleaner, soda blasting, Chem dip and high pressure Air...
and THAT is considered the NORM now.... which simply means that the carburetors now days are Borked ! it takes too much maintenance to use them.
with that thought , there must be a better alternative like lectron carburetors or something some attendance free type of carburetor.
....
Now my question is has anyone used any other type of carb on the Ninja?
I know there have been conversions to fuel injection, but that's technically not a carburetor....OR EASY !
....
Bob....
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 6th, 2021, 06:01 PM   #9
shspvr
ninjette.org guru
 
Name: Anthony
Location: Vinita, Ok
Join Date: Sep 2021

Motorcycle(s): 07 Kawasaki Ninja 250

Posts: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
back when I had a bike repair shop in south Redding CA. I had a large parts cleaner basin tank that was maintained by someone else.
that was all I had to clean parts with and I used it a bunch !
I did buy a sand blaster to sand blast the underside and back of some 18 wheelers my Dad had to paint... we had a autobody and motorcycle repair shop in the same building at the time... and when things were slow I helped him out for a little extra cash , it worked out good for both of us !
back then, the carbs were not so hard to get clean as they are now days
but with the advent of the constant velocity carbs they got tougher real fast !
....sounds as if it's a TRY everything at your disposal to get them clean including Ultrasonic cleaner, soda blasting, Chem dip and high pressure Air...
and THAT is considered the NORM now.... which simply means that the carburetors now days are Borked ! it takes too much maintenance to use them.
with that thought , there must be a better alternative like lectron carburetors or something some attendance free type of carburetor.
....
Now my question is has anyone used any other type of carb on the Ninja?
I know there have been conversions to fuel injection, but that's technically not a carburetor....OR EASY !
....
Bob....
With a Lectron carburetors you going to need build 2 into 1 intake manifold and replace throttle and cable and modify the your air box

but the Genuine Keihin Fuel Carburetor Carb Roundslide CR31 for EX250 is still cheaper here on eBays

The thing with conversions to fuel injection is not cheap that biggest problem
shspvr is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 7th, 2021, 11:05 AM   #10
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Soda blasting also good for clearing out hidden secret passages and bleed holes. Scrubbing removes bulk of deposits, but can leave little shrapnels around.

EFI conversion requires lots of electrical fabrication skill and programming knowledge to do optimally to at least match carbs in performance.

Had one guy come to my tuning shoppe complaining about MoTeC system he got off eBay and how it wasn't working. To build harness, he didn't even crimp or solder wires to terminals. He had just wrapped wire around terminals, covered it with electrical tape around whole thing and jammed en-masse into connector housing! Then he wondered why half of them pulled out when pushing connectors together!!!

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; October 7th, 2021 at 12:36 PM.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 7th, 2021, 11:25 AM   #11
Chicagobob
ninjette.org guru
 
Chicagobob's Avatar
 
Name: Bob
Location: Chicago
Join Date: Sep 2012

Motorcycle(s): '06 Ninja 250, 2018 Honda GL1800B

Posts: 315
I'll sell you my 10L one for $100, including shipping. I used it to clean a bunch of vintage Honda carbs, and it is helpful, but I'm out of the business now. PM me.

Here it is:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Chicagobob is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 7th, 2021, 04:20 PM   #12
Dizzy
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Dustin
Location: NC
Join Date: Oct 2021

Motorcycle(s): 250r

Posts: 80
I used regular carb cleaner and lots of it and sit the jets and all the small parts in a sealable container and let it sit for a long time then blast off with more carb cleaner if you use enough and it's not to badly gunked up you should be fine if done property also you want to spray the carb cleaner threw every hose every passage way etc
Dizzy is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 7th, 2021, 04:37 PM   #13
BonelessSugar
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Cashby
Location: Maine
Join Date: Sep 2021

Motorcycle(s): EX250-F x 3, TW200, NPS50

Posts: 98
Hey if that works, great! Can't remember who said it but I read somewhere here that carb cleaner isn't as strong as it used to be because they took out chlorine or something from it.

Consensus here is to clean as thoroughly as possible the first time around so you don't have to repeat deeper and deeper and it's just done the first time through.

Considering Bob said that they tried cleaning their carb already once, I think that they might have tried carb cleaner once already.
BonelessSugar is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 7th, 2021, 07:15 PM   #14
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
Well I admit I didn't do a real good job at cleaning the carbs...I was looking for blocked main jet and I found it and then put it all back together to see if it would Run.... as I just bought the bike...
it ran but not perfect..... and to this day I haven't used the carb cleaner on it that I got for it.... this winter I plan to pull the carbs and do a good job of carb cleaning on the Ninja but as summer comes to a close around here I don't want to have the bike all apart on a warm sunny day, their getting to be far and few between !
.... from what I understand the carb cleaner has had soom of the UMPH taken out of it.... but it's still better than nothing.
Bob..
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 8th, 2021, 05:28 AM   #15
ducatiman
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
ducatiman's Avatar
 
Name: Gordon
Location: new york
Join Date: Sep 2009

Motorcycle(s): '95 DUCATI 900SS/SP '07 DUCATI SS800 '19 HONDA CBR650R

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17
an example or 2 of what you are striving to accomplish
Attached Images
File Type: jpg surprise1.jpg (121.7 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg surprise2.jpg (114.0 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg kyle2505.jpg (124.9 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg kyle25015.jpg (92.2 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg ej19.jpg (145.5 KB, 9 views)
__________________________________________________
gordon@customcarbservices.com
Custom Carb Service
www.customcarbservices.com

Last futzed with by ducatiman; October 8th, 2021 at 01:58 PM.
ducatiman is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 8th, 2021, 03:06 PM   #16
ducatiman
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
ducatiman's Avatar
 
Name: Gordon
Location: new york
Join Date: Sep 2009

Motorcycle(s): '95 DUCATI 900SS/SP '07 DUCATI SS800 '19 HONDA CBR650R

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17
in any event, a "wet test" prior to final install is recommended to ascertain fuel levels, tweaking as necessary, as well as to reveal the presence of any external leaks. Certainly best to find errors PRIOR to reinstall than after.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg tm5.jpg (110.2 KB, 5 views)
__________________________________________________
gordon@customcarbservices.com
Custom Carb Service
www.customcarbservices.com

Last futzed with by ducatiman; October 8th, 2021 at 04:19 PM.
ducatiman is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old October 8th, 2021, 05:17 PM   #17
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
WOW impressive indeed !
How much do you charge to clean a set of 250R carbs ???
Bob.......
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 8th, 2021, 05:21 PM   #18
ducatiman
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
ducatiman's Avatar
 
Name: Gordon
Location: new york
Join Date: Sep 2009

Motorcycle(s): '95 DUCATI 900SS/SP '07 DUCATI SS800 '19 HONDA CBR650R

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17
i believe "restoration" is a better description of my service.

PM a'comin.
__________________________________________________
gordon@customcarbservices.com
Custom Carb Service
www.customcarbservices.com
ducatiman is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 29th, 2021, 11:42 AM   #19
IndestructibleNinja
ninjette.org member
 
IndestructibleNinja's Avatar
 
Name: Mike
Location: Dillsburg, PA
Join Date: Oct 2021

Motorcycle(s): 08' ninja 250 and Honda XL600

Posts: 31
My 250's carbs were so gunked up it would die instantly with any throttle. However, when I took it apart, it had no gunk in the bowl. Just clogged little orifices on the sides of the jets.

One time I was cleaning the carbs on a lawnmower from the 80s or 90s and what I saw in the bowl looked like crumbs of mold. Everything was stuffed with this dry dusty brownish green solid.

I use wire and spray a jet of carb cleaner. If it shoots out the other end I call it good. Also wire brush the insides carefully to get crust out. This has worked for me for as long as I've been working on small engines and carbs. About 10 years. Never once had an ultrasonic cleaner or needed one. I've also never come across a carb that needed a "rebuild kit" with all the seals. Usually just cleaning the dirt off the bowl gasket that you dropped on the ground usually gets it sealed fine. But I'm usually working on small equipment, about 95% of the time. Motorcycles do have more fleshy bits, especially bigger displacement bikes. That is where the ultrasonic cleaner might come in handy, because carb cleaner can hurt the rubber diaphragms and small o rings. But if you can't keep the spray of carb cleaner to just the jets and circuits I'd say save the time and hassle and try a shop. I hate other people screwing up my stuff though.
IndestructibleNinja is offline   Reply With Quote


Old January 8th, 2022, 05:29 AM   #20
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
Not to revive this thread but to let ya know I did finally get a ultrasonic cleaner
a small one only 2 liters but enough to hold one carb at a time.
... I won't bother with Soda blasting as i don't believe that would be effective
at cleaning a inside passage way, more likely plug it up even worse !
besides who has a blasting cabinet? and if you attempt doing it without a cabinet, you'll be white as a ghost !
high pressure water would be as good if not better but unless you want to be soaked from head to foot that's not such a grand idea either !
in reality I think the best bet is clean it the best you can with your probes and brushes and then throw it in the ultrasonic cleaner for as long as you dare
and then clean it again with carb cleaner is the best your going to get
.....anything more than that would be turning the act of carb cleaning into a religion....and while that may be fine for some it's not my cup of tea i just want the carbs clean so they will work.... I could care less if I follow established procedure or not...as long as they work....
so I will find a way that works for me !
and soda blasting ain't it because about 1/2" into the tiny passageway that light soda is going to stop and if you have mostly air going through it and little soda ...what is the point ? you'd have to be there for an hour on the one passage way to get any kind of cleaning at all.
that's my take on the subject..... and you see how well it has worked for me
( it hasn't ! ) so obviously i don't know S@#T about it so don't listen to me !
LOL
....
Bob.......
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
sonic fork springs FvnnyL3tt3r1ng 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 6 January 8th, 2015 08:22 AM
scientifically accurate Sonic l'Hedgehog alex.s Off-Topic 3 October 15th, 2014 01:01 PM
Gear Review: Earplugs - EP7 Sonic Defenders® Ultra Panda Motorcycle Gear 4 August 10th, 2013 11:25 PM
Sonic Springs Thumbs Up! Finder 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 1 August 29th, 2009 12:52 AM
FS CO: Parts (Sonic Springs, Pre 08 Gauge Cluster, Tail Section) RMLegacy Motorcycle-related 0 August 10th, 2009 07:57 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Motorcycle Safety Foundation

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:27 AM.


Website uptime monitoring Host-tracker.com
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Except where otherwise noted, all site contents are © Copyright 2022 ninjette.org, All rights reserved.