Undeniable proof that sportbike riders are smarter that cruiser riders

[Xoulrath]

Originally Posted by Goom

Seeing someone's head spilled on the road is disturbing.

And seeing someone in full gear crushed between a couple of cars, or cut in half from a guard rail meant for cars, isn't?

Motorcycling is dangerous. I think the majority of riders know that. Helmet or no helmet, full gear or none, the risk is the same. Gear can mitigate some of the damage a rider might receive if they go down, but nothing is fool-proof. Safe riding practices exercised on a regular basis, an ability to scan for traffic and have back-up plans, and continued training will contribute to a rider's longevity more than a few extra layers of "skin."

[Goom]

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

And seeing someone in full gear crushed between a couple of cars, or cut in half from a guard rail meant for cars, isn't?

Motorcycling is dangerous. I think the majority of riders know that. Helmet or no helmet, full gear or none, the risk is the same. Gear can mitigate some of the damage a rider might receive if they go down, but nothing is fool-proof. Safe riding practices exercised on a regular basis, an ability to scan for traffic and have back-up plans, and continued training will contribute to a rider's longevity more than a few extra layers of "skin."

Trust me, dude. I know motorcycles are dangerous. I know 2 people who have died on them in the past year. I helmet is meant to save your head. There is no guarantee of saving your life.

You are either missing the point, or you have a hard-on for the cargo shorts and flip flops on a bike crowd. You can't tell me the risk is the same and expect me to buy that. I'm not trying to promote gear as a lifesaver, but I promise it will lessen the effects of a crash.

I've shattered a helmet and pair of goggles in an MX crash that didn't even look that bad. Out of that, I ended up with a very mild concussion, a black eye, and other bruises on my face. Without the helmet and goggles, they would have had to reconstruct my face at best.

I'm not some ATGATT freak either. I ride in jeans and skate shoes almost all the time. I'm an experienced rider, but experience doesnt make anyone invincible. Make a good enough case for not wearing a helmet, and I will personally never wear my helmet again.

Also, I've known of someone who was a vegetable after tipping his dirtbike over moving it in his driveway because he dropped it and slammed his head when he fell.

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by Reswob

How about just the simple fact that the gov't has no right to tell anyone they have to wear a helmet (or seatbelt)?? Before you know it, the Nanny State is going to be telling you you have to wear a 1-pc racing suit to ride, and you have to have a full roll cage in your car. Then you'll have to wear your helmet just to walk down the street. Then you'll have to walk around looking like the Michelin man in your protective suit 24/7, even in your own home.

After all, it's for your own good.

Don't be stupid, the "it's for your own good" crowd wouldn't know a full leather suit if it walked up & slapped them in the face, what they do know and love is hi vis...

Look at what the fourth reich (EU) is up to in europe to find out what your bell-end politicians and safety nazis are looking to do next.


France has already brought in mandatory hi vis & reflective pannels on all bike clothing, Ireland is trying to slip it in unnoticed, when a big group jumped on it & protested outside the dail (Irish congress & senate building) they changed from "this is coming in" to "we'll prepare a report on it and decide if voluntary wearing rates exceed 80% that mandatory full sleeved hi vis is not necessary"... I wonder whose mate is in the hi vis jackets trade...
Posted via Mobile Device

[nycsteve]

Originally Posted by Reswob

How about just the simple fact that the gov't has no right to tell anyone they have to wear a helmet (or seatbelt)?? Before you know it, the Nanny State is going to be telling you you have to wear a 1-pc racing suit to ride, and you have to have a full roll cage in your car. Then you'll have to wear your helmet just to walk down the street. Then you'll have to walk around looking like the Michelin man in your protective suit 24/7, even in your own home.

After all, it's for your own good.

SOB, that was funny! lol

[akima]

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

Helmet or no helmet, full gear or none, the risk is the same.

(love that meme!)

[DailyRidden250R]

Risk is the same. I can't agree more!

The recovery time is different if there is any recovery; But not all accidents end in death either.

If one expects wearing gears will keep one from crashing, understand that everyone will fall/crash. It is matter of when and how.

I just hope that I can minimize damage by wearing some gears.

[akima]

Originally Posted by DailyRidden250R

Risk is the same. I can't agree more!

The recovery time is different if there is any recovery; But not all accidents end in death either.

If one expects wearing gears will keep one from crashing, understand that everyone will fall/crash. It is matter of when and how.

I just hope that I can minimize damage by wearing some gears.

Why on earth would you assume that people believe that wearing gear would protect you from crashing? Other than severely mentally retarded people, who would think that? I doubt a very young child would look at someone in motorcycle gear and think to themselves "Hmm, I bet that gear provides some kind of anti-crash force field."

I was thinking about risk of skin loss, risk of bones braking, risk of sight loss, risk of brain damage, risk of concussion if/when you crash. All these risks can be mitigated or completely removed by protective gear.

It's entirely possible to crash a motorcycle and walk away with no damage to yourself because you wore your gear. The one time I crashed I suffered zero injuries. Had I not been wearing gear I'm pretty sure I'd have broken my ankle and got cut up.

I agree with Xoulrath's comment that:

Safe riding practices exercised on a regular basis, an ability to scan for traffic and have back-up plans, and continued training will contribute to a rider's longevity more than a few extra layers of "skin."

... but that statement does not anyway justify not wearing protective gear.

I'm totally in the freedom camp in terms of gear enforcement... ie, your life, your decision, but I'm gonna call BS on anyone who starts touting off that protective gear isn't important.

[n_aditya]

Helmet certification in our country is a joke.

Law insists on riders wearing an ISI (Indian Standards Institute) certified helmet but then serious riders like us want something better so we go for DOT / ECE certified ones. Some states make it mandatory for pillions also to wear helmets.

The cops are even funnier and went about penalizing super bike riders in Mumbai for wearing non ISI lids (imported DOT certified ones).... all this while there are thousands of other jokers wearing german army helmets and animal feeding bowl type helmets with no certifications whatsoever. I've noticed one such fake helmet goes by the brand name saviour. Saviour of what, God alone knows.

Most people only wear helmets to avoid paying the fine. The attitude is It Can't Happen to Me which is a load of BS!!! Some sling it over their arm and pop it on when they see a cop. If the moron has a fall, his head is compromised and more so his arm will be broken in multiple places.

There are various categories and one more in addition to the ones listed above.... There are those who wear ISI marked lids but they dont strap the lids. One fall and the lid is rolling away. I saw this on the way to work one day. The rider busted his lip and when i stopped to check if he was OK he was pointing fingers at another bike which had braked hard ahead of him. This joker also braked and skidded to a fall. Asked him to buckle the lid and to cover his embarrassment he started yelling at me. Some people never learn, hard way or easy way !

I feel insurance companies should have a clause that says helmet and other gear should be worn and strapped securely else claim is at the discretion of the investigating authority. Everyday there is a death reported in the papers - rider killed, was not wearing a helmet and sometimes also goes to mention that he/she was wearing one. But doesn't mention if it was an ISI one (at least) or if it was strapped.

Wanna know how much the fakes cost? As less as US$ 5.00. The ISI ones cost around $15 onwards and good ones start from US $ 20 onwards. I dont think any ISI marked indian lid exceeds 40 dollars in pricing.

sorry for the rant.

[DailyRidden250R]

Originally Posted by akima

Why on earth would you assume that people believe that wearing gear would protect you from crashing? Other than severely mentally retarded people, who would think that? I doubt a very young child would look at someone in motorcycle gear and think to themselves "Hmm, I bet that gear provides some kind of anti-crash force field."

I was thinking about risk of skin loss, risk of bones braking, risk of sight loss, risk of brain damage, risk of concussion if/when you crash. All these risks can be mitigated or completely removed by protective gear.

It's entirely possible to crash a motorcycle and walk away with no damage to yourself because you wore your gear. The one time I crashed I suffered zero injuries. Had I not been wearing gear I'm pretty sure I'd have broken my ankle and got cut up.

I agree with Xoulrath's comment that:

... but that statement does not anyway justify not wearing protective gear.

I'm totally in the freedom camp in terms of gear enforcement... ie, your life, your decision, but I'm gonna call BS on anyone who starts touting off that protective gear isn't important.

Read and read and then read some more and read between the lines before making comments such as thy.

I wasn't assuming. Someone mentioned the "risk" being the same to justify not wearing gears. My response was to counter the point "passively" and "ambiguously" with a hint of sarcasm because people are so sensitive around here like yourself that despite the risk of crashing is the same, the protection is why gears are worn, to remind some retarded people that you seemed to be pointing out. Not me.

With that said, read my last post again specially the last sentence.



I am pro gear pro protection at all times. I know I am going to crash one day but I just hope that I can minimize the damage by wearing some gears. Didn't I say that before? I think you are saying the same thing. If I read correctly.

Oh yeah if you wear the gears chances are the recovery time from an injury is going to be different probably shorter than people who wore no gear.

I thought I sorta said that too.

You can read whatever you want to read out of my post but don't be all harsh about it because you thought it didn't agree with what you were saying.

Let's grow up folks. Don't need to be all worked up about it!

Let them die so I can collect my social security and don't have to split the small pot that is exponentially grown and growing smaller.

Someone mentioned about organs donors. We do need them after all.

Cheers!

I wear gears to minimize the risk of serious injury. Hope someone reads it.

[akima]

^ ahh, oops lol. Guess I mis-interpreted you. Thought you were advocating gear being unnecessary if you practice safe riding techniques.

[250rr]

Originally Posted by DailyRidden250R

Read and read and then read some more and read between the lines before making comments such as thy.

I wasn't assuming. Someone mentioned the "risk" being the same to justify not wearing gears. My response was to counter the point "passively" and "ambiguously" with a hint of sarcasm because people are so sensitive around here like yourself that despite the risk of crashing is the same, the protection is why gears are worn, to remind some retarded people that you seemed to be pointing out. Not me.

With that said, read my last post again specially the last sentence.



I am pro gear pro protection at all times. I know I am going to crash one day but I just hope that I can minimize the damage by wearing some gears. Didn't I say that before? I think you are saying the same thing. If I read correctly.

Oh yeah if you wear the gears chances are the recovery time from an injury is going to be different probably shorter than people who wore no gear.

I thought I sorta said that too.

You can read whatever you want to read out of my post but don't be all harsh about it because you thought it didn't agree with what you were saying.

Let's grow up folks. Don't need to be all worked up about it!

Let them die so I can collect my social security and don't have to split the small pot that is exponentially grown and growing smaller.

Someone mentioned about organs donors. We do need them after all.

Cheers!

I wear gears to minimize the risk of serious injury. Hope someone reads it.

@akima

You must remember, although surprisingly intelligent, squirrels are very literal. And very very cute.

[akima]

[baz666]

I've been riding for a long, long time. Geez, I'm getting up there. Scary. Anyway, I've seen the results of people hitting all kinds of stuff on bikes, being hit by all kinds of things, moving and static, and I've seen riders go face first into the back of a car or pick up. You know, the Superman posture, like being fired out of a cannon, hands at sides, like a flesh and blood bullet.
Quite a contrast doing that with a helmet and without.
I got cut off a some years ago, the car driver of course didn't check her blind spot and hit my front wheel, sending me hurtling head first through her car's rear window. I ended up head first in the back seat, legs out on the trunk, like some cartoon. I was riding an old GSXR600 and in full gear.
After the initial suprise, I was in good enough shape to look up, lift the visor on my full-face and say: "What the f&ck is wrong with you?!"
She was mortified, of course, no idea what just happened.
If it was a guy I might have head butted him to prove how good my helmet really was.
I was very lucky. The result was a sore neck for a few days and a wrecked bike but otherwise okay.
Her insurance settled without any hassle and I got enough money for 'pain and suffering' to add some enjoyment to my LIFE.
I've been riding for 51 years, since my dad got me a little Briggs & Stratton 2hp minibike when I was 5. I've always worn a helmet, and got into full face helmets soon as I could afford one. And I've always worn good riding gloves (ever seen road rash on human palms?), boots and armor. When I was young and stupid I did a lot of dumb things on bikes that caused me to wipe out, along with being nailed by drunks, space cadets and the like and the helmet and other gear always helped.
These days there's some great, lightweight equipment at good prices so there's no excuse. It might not look or feel cool on a hot summer day but I've also seen the result of 30 feet or so of road rash on face, hands, arms and knees of a Harley riding guy who looked awesome in his sleeveless West Coast Chopper t-shirt, camo cargo shorts, bare hands and only his skull protecting his brain.
This happened on a busy highway when he was dodging through thick traffic at high speed and his rear wheel got touched by some bumper. That sent him into a wicked wobble at high speed, glanced off the guard rail and was catapulted from his cruiser to go tumbling and skidding down the road for about 30 feet before he bounced off the tailgate of an F150.
I pulled over and ran up to see if I could render assistance.
The thing that really made an impression on me was the volume and intensity of his screaming before he passed out. Tough thing to forget.

[ForceofWill]

Probably a rough thing to see. I didn't expect to read Alex's posts again either. Brought back some rough stuff.

[akima]

@baz666: your post has left me pretty speechless. You've seen and experienced some messed up stuff. I'm glad there are people like you putting your stories out there to make the rest of us not have to see and experience so much of that horror.

That Harley rider...

...

* shivers *

Out of curiousity. In those 51 years, have you seen, experienced or heard of scooter riders getting bad rash? Motorcycle culture over here (sports bikes, standards and cruisers) are pretty good with gear on the whole. Scooter culture hasn't caught up. I'm always seeing half-helmets and unprotected skin on them. They tend to ride 50CC to 125CC machines that produce the same BHP as a ninjette does when it farts. Do they still need to be ATGATT?

It feels like a low power scooter sits somewhere between a normal motorcycle and a bicycle. I wear all the protection I can on my motorcycle, but on my bicycle I'm just a few layers of cotton short of being naked!

[Ralgha]

Originally Posted by Reswob

How about just the simple fact that the gov't has no right to tell anyone they have to wear a helmet (or seatbelt)?? Before you know it, the Nanny State is going to be telling you you have to wear a 1-pc racing suit to ride, and you have to have a full roll cage in your car. Then you'll have to wear your helmet just to walk down the street. Then you'll have to walk around looking like the Michelin man in your protective suit 24/7, even in your own home.

After all, it's for your own good.

The helmet laws aren't about what's for your own good. If someone wipes out without a helmet, guess who pays for it? Me, and everybody else. My taxes pay for the emergency response units, my insurance premiums pay for the hospital bills.

I want everyone to wear a helmet, not because I give a crap about them, but because I don't want to pay for their dumb asses when they ball it up.

[GHill762]

Originally Posted by Ralgha

The helmet laws aren't about what's for your own good. If someone wipes out without a helmet, guess who pays for it? Me, and everybody else. My taxes pay for the emergency response units, my insurance premiums pay for the hospital bills.

I want everyone to wear a helmet, not because I give a crap about them, but because I don't want to pay for their dumb asses when they ball it up.

only because, once again, government is out of line.. one person should never be forced to pay for anyone else for anything. I don't want my neighbor to be forced to pay for me and I don't want to be forced to pay for my neighbor. I'm willing to donate to charities and help people who need help, but charity at the point of a gun (the way our government does it) is not charity.

[NinjaDucky]

Originally Posted by Sigma.40

Same. The only jacket I have right now is a extremely heavy buffalo-hide leather coat. It looks awesome but I've discovered that when I'm riding in town when its above 85*, I get so hot at the red lights, that I don't recover once I'm moving again. Last time I got all dizzy and when I got home I had to drink damn-near a gallon of water. Saving up for something more breathable.

Watch Craigslist. I got a couple great jackets out of there. The one I use currently is a well vented all mesh armored scorpion jacket. Paid $20 for it

[Ralgha]

Originally Posted by GHill762

only because, once again, government is out of line.. one person should never be forced to pay for anyone else for anything. I don't want my neighbor to be forced to pay for me and I don't want to be forced to pay for my neighbor. I'm willing to donate to charities and help people who need help, but charity at the point of a gun (the way our government does it) is not charity.

So you're willing to pay for all of your medical care? Your medical insurance is subsidized by everyone else who takes part, and that was true before Obummercare.

You're willing to cover the full cost of the ambulance that might someday need to show up for you, or the fire truck that might need to come put out your house, or the police that might find your stolen property?

How about the costs of the roads that provide the means to get your food to you? The costs of a military to protect your way of life?

How about the national airspace system that makes it possible for you to fly from A to B for $100?

Ever been in a courtroom? Would you like to pay for everything else in addition to your lawyer?

How about the prisons containing rapists and murders? Maybe those should go so you don't have to pay for them.

You really want to pay for all that stuff yourself? Or maybe there's something to this whole community thing where everyone chips in to keep the thing running smoothly for everyone.

Yeah, there's a lot wrong with the government, they use their money very inefficiently and cost us more than they should, but most people don't even consider how much more it would cost them personally if it didn't exist to maintain the same level of comfort and stability.

[ForceofWill]

Originally Posted by Ralgha

You really want to pay for all that stuff yourself? Or maybe there's something to this whole community thing where everyone chips in to keep the thing running smoothly for everyone..

I know there's a word for that somewhere....

[Aodrn]

Originally Posted by Reswob

How about just the simple fact that the gov't has no right to tell anyone they have to wear a helmet (or seatbelt)?? Before you know it, the Nanny State is going to be telling you you have to wear a 1-pc racing suit to ride, and you have to have a full roll cage in your car. Then you'll have to wear your helmet just to walk down the street. Then you'll have to walk around looking like the Michelin man in your protective suit 24/7, even in your own home.

After all, it's for your own good.

THIS!!!!!! Yes that was shouting. I want to have a choice to eat fatty food, smoke, drink, and chase wild women! Who knows what I want out of life better than me? If the government wasnt making sure everybody was equal, I could choose my own life. By the way, I would wear a helmet even if it wasnt law. It saved my life twice.

[baz666]

Originally Posted by akima

@baz666: your post has left me pretty speechless. You've seen and experienced some messed up stuff. I'm glad there are people like you putting your stories out there to make the rest of us not have to see and experience so much of that horror.

That Harley rider...

...

* shivers *

Out of curiousity. In those 51 years, have you seen, experienced or heard of scooter riders getting bad rash? Motorcycle culture over here (sports bikes, standards and cruisers) are pretty good with gear on the whole. Scooter culture hasn't caught up. I'm always seeing half-helmets and unprotected skin on them. They tend to ride 50CC to 125CC machines that produce the same BHP as a ninjette does when it farts. Do they still need to be ATGATT?

It feels like a low power scooter sits somewhere between a normal motorcycle and a bicycle. I wear all the protection I can on my motorcycle, but on my bicycle I'm just a few layers of cotton short of being naked!

Living in SE Asia, I saw some pretty scary stuff to do with scooters. Young kids riding drunk is a kind of national pastime and nobody takes it seriously. New year's holiday is known as the The Seven Deadly Days and there's mayhem on the road. People riding scooters get just as messed up as motorcyclists since they ride in t-shirt, shorts, flipflops - and no helmet, of course. Or they wear these weird plastic baseball caps that you could crack with thumb and index finger. There is no DOT rating on helmets there. Most helmets are a joke. I love those people who wear cotton filters over their mouths because of pollution but ride with no helmet and in flipflops.

I wore a DOT full face I bought in Japan, armored gloves, boots and armored mesh jacket, even in stifling temperatures and people laughed at me. A neighbor who thought I was crazy sadly had her daughter killed in a low speed scooter crash where she was the passenger and landed on her head the wrong way and caused a coma and cranial blood clot she died from a few weeks later. I know ABATE people will scream at me but i think a decent helmet would have kept her alive.
Also there are zero real license requirements in most of SE Asia. There is no rider training and as I said, lots of drunk riding and drunk driving. They corner too fast through sweepers, go toward the outside of the lane, causing plenty of head on collisions between scooters. It's not bad during the day but at night there's a lot of out of control riding.
Governments are trying to impose helmet and DUI laws since health costs are through the roof. And tourists follow suit and many get maimed and killed as a result, especially on resort islands where they think scooters are toys. They don't need a license or any experience to ride any bike they can rent, from a 50cc scooter to a CBR1000RR. Just pay the rate, leave your passport and off you go. I often saw tourists on crutches, or with broken nose bandages, taped up hands, feet, etc.
Maybe I am nuts but I'll keep wearing my gear since I can control what I do but I can't control what every other person on the road does.

[headshrink]

What would happen if the government minds it's Ps & Qs, and a significant portion of a population that doesn't believe in personal responsibility kill themselves off.... leaving the rest of us?


Sorry, it was my turn to preach to the choir. I'll show myself out.

[baz666]

Originally Posted by n_aditya

Helmet certification in our country is a joke.

Law insists on riders wearing an ISI (Indian Standards Institute) certified helmet but then serious riders like us want something better so we go for DOT / ECE certified ones. Some states make it mandatory for pillions also to wear helmets.

The cops are even funnier and went about penalizing super bike riders in Mumbai for wearing non ISI lids (imported DOT certified ones).... all this while there are thousands of other jokers wearing german army helmets and animal feeding bowl type helmets with no certifications whatsoever. I've noticed one such fake helmet goes by the brand name saviour. Saviour of what, God alone knows.

Most people only wear helmets to avoid paying the fine. The attitude is It Can't Happen to Me which is a load of BS!!! Some sling it over their arm and pop it on when they see a cop. If the moron has a fall, his head is compromised and more so his arm will be broken in multiple places.

There are various categories and one more in addition to the ones listed above.... There are those who wear ISI marked lids but they dont strap the lids. One fall and the lid is rolling away. I saw this on the way to work one day. The rider busted his lip and when i stopped to check if he was OK he was pointing fingers at another bike which had braked hard ahead of him. This joker also braked and skidded to a fall. Asked him to buckle the lid and to cover his embarrassment he started yelling at me. Some people never learn, hard way or easy way !

I feel insurance companies should have a clause that says helmet and other gear should be worn and strapped securely else claim is at the discretion of the investigating authority. Everyday there is a death reported in the papers - rider killed, was not wearing a helmet and sometimes also goes to mention that he/she was wearing one. But doesn't mention if it was an ISI one (at least) or if it was strapped.

Wanna know how much the fakes cost? As less as US$ 5.00. The ISI ones cost around $15 onwards and good ones start from US $ 20 onwards. I dont think any ISI marked indian lid exceeds 40 dollars in pricing.

sorry for the rant.

Good rant. Same situation in Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, Malaysia and Indonesia and Burma. Maybe it's a sense of fatalism but mirrors seem to be most often used to pick zits while sitting in front of the cafe looking cool. Hair is a big deal in SE Asia and nobody wants to mess up their cool hairdo with some helmet. But then people ride scooters carrying all kinds of furniture, poles, whatever, or 3 or 4 people, a dog, a baby standing up on the seat between mum and dad, grandma jammed onto the scooter's step-thru floor, maybe the driver wearing one of the cheap helmets you mention. The three wheel taxis are a huge thrill ride, drivers often drunk, going up on 2 wheels around corners and think they're giving passengers big fun and they get angry when you tell them to slow down and take it easy, as if you're questioning their manhood. Well, SE Asia's population is 70% under 25 so that probably has something to do with it. We all feel immortal when we're young. Too bad it just ain't true.

[Klondike1020]

Originally Posted by baz666

Good rant. Same situation in Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, Malaysia and Indonesia and Burma. Maybe it's a sense of fatalism but mirrors seem to be most often used to pick zits while sitting in front of the cafe looking cool. Hair is a big deal in SE Asia and nobody wants to mess up their cool hairdo with some helmet. But then people ride scooters carrying all kinds of furniture, poles, whatever, or 3 or 4 people, a dog, a baby standing up on the seat between mum and dad, grandma jammed onto the scooter's step-thru floor, maybe the driver wearing one of the cheap helmets you mention. The three wheel taxis are a huge thrill ride, drivers often drunk, going up on 2 wheels around corners and think they're giving passengers big fun and they get angry when you tell them to slow down and take it easy, as if you're questioning their manhood. Well, SE Asia's population is 70% under 25 so that probably has something to do with it. We all feel immortal when we're young. Too bad it just ain't true.

And this is why I LOVE Thailand and Asia ! It is a wonderful wonderland of ADHD drivers with no order and random things crossing the roads haha

It's an adrenaline rush just to cross a street to buy a soda lol!

I love all the tourists in casts also ... Especially on Koh pang yang lol

But on a more serious note I wish I had more gear when I was there. And I will say ridding in Thailand certainly helped me brush up on emergency maneuvering ! You defiantly don't ride there unless certain things are instinct to you because it's easy to have a head on or get ru. Over by a bus!

I've been ridding scooters since I was a kid and you can die very easily ridding one.

[baz666]

Yeah, it's a funhouse all right - until you're rear ended by a drunk in a three wheeled taxi and then the fun stops. It took me about a week of riding in SE Asia to get fully geared up. The first crash I saw was a pair of drunk tourists when I was up in Chiang Mai. I was looking to rent a Kawi 250 D-Tracker dualsport and the rental place didn't care the tourist pair were pretty hammered at 3pm. So they rented a pair of 110cc Honda Wave scooters and got about 100 feet down the road before wobbling into one another and crashing. One was down and out, having done a gory face plant. The other stood up, disoriented and was instantly hit by an overloaded scooter/sidecar rig that was of course tailgating, a regional passion. Not being right on a guy's tail light is considered a character flaw.
But that region went from basically feudal farming societies to atavistic consumer madness in about 25 years. For example, the gov't in Thailand underwrites vehicle loans up to 99% of the value. One result is that if you go to buy a part at factory dealer, like Kawasaki, they just shrug and tell you to forget fixing the thing, just buy a new one. The great thing is you buy a new bike, make the low monthly payments for a year, default, take it back and your gov't sponsored credit rating is not affected. So why fix anything? No, recycling and environmentalism is not trendy in East Asia yet. Most people think this whole climate change/recycling/low carbon thing is a way for the Western developed countries to deny Asians their fundamental right to have massive TVs, cars, appliances, phones and all the other junk that's made the West a shallow dystopia that defines an individual by how much shiny new stuff he or she has in their possession.
Okay, enough rant. Suffice to say, you're right. In SE Asia, it's an adventure every time you get on your bike!

[baz666]

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

And seeing someone in full gear crushed between a couple of cars, or cut in half from a guard rail meant for cars, isn't?

Motorcycling is dangerous. I think the majority of riders know that. Helmet or no helmet, full gear or none, the risk is the same. Gear can mitigate some of the damage a rider might receive if they go down, but nothing is fool-proof. Safe riding practices exercised on a regular basis, an ability to scan for traffic and have back-up plans, and continued training will contribute to a rider's longevity more than a few extra layers of "skin."

So I guess the guys who race bikes are wasting their time wearing all that crap. I wonder why lorenzo, Marquez, Rossi et al wear helmets and full armored leathers. Because their sponsors demand it? Why not ride in a speedo, barefoot?
Okay, kidding aside, over the years I've been hit a couple times by inattentive drivers that simply cut into me suddenly when I was passing them. Yes, training and experience allowed me to try to minimize the damage by not panicking and trying to fall the right way but sometimes physics and the inexplicable acts of others are beyond a rider's control, no matter how good you are. I've been knocked off or fallen off bikes and surfed down the road or track on my helmet and back/elbow armor and gloves. One time I ended up just feeling stupid after wiping out while overcooking a corner during a track day and other time I ended up with some bad bruises and a fractured wrist when a guy in a pickup burst out of a hidden driveway without stopping and took out my front end but there's a chance things might have turned out worse if I was wearing a sleeveless t-shirt and cargo shorts.
But that still doesn't mean I want laws demanding riders wear protective gear. I think the result is known as Thinning of the Herd.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

Helmet or no helmet, full gear or none, the risk is the same.

This is a stupid statement. I do not think you are this stupid

[misfitsailor]

I ride both sportbikes and cruisers and have always worn full-face helmets, even before we had a nanny-state law requiring it. However, laws that dictate helmets, seat belts, ect are clearly beyond the mandate of a limited government and represent an infringement of our constitutional liberties.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by allanoue

This is a stupid statement. I do not think you are this stupid

I'm not sure it's wrong on its face. Depends which risk is being referred to. The risk of crashing is exactly the same. The risk of injury is significantly different, for a good portion of crashes.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by Alex

I'm not sure it's wrong on its face. Depends which risk is being referred to. The risk of crashing is exactly the same. The risk of injury is significantly different, for a good portion of crashes.

What is the risk in crashing? Loss of property. Loss of life. Injury.

[allanoue]

Don't crash

That is brilliant advice.

[Sirref]

just go faster to avoid crashing
-squid advice

a level of bad advice all on it's own.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by allanoue

What is the risk in crashing? Loss of property. Loss of life. Injury.

Risk *of* crashing. Not risk *in* crashing. I get your point, but I think you're missing mine, and the original one I was referring to.

[InvisiBill]

Generally speaking, I agree that you should be allowed to do whatever you want to yourself, and you should be responsible for the consequences of your actions. I'd prefer it if everyone had the right to choose whether or not to wear a helmet, and everyone actually chose to do so. There's risk in everything we do every day, and each person has to decide for himself where he wants to draw that line between acceptable and unacceptable risks.

If you want to get extreme as far as safety gear for motorcycling goes, they'd be a lot safer if they didn't tip over - we should probably give them 4 wheels instead of 2. They'd also be safer if they had a big metal cage surrounding the rider. See where this is heading?

Seat belt laws get mentioned frequently with helmet laws. There is one difference that people might not consider though - a seat belt also keeps you in the correct position to operate the vehicle. I think a seat belt is a lot more likely to keep you in the driver's seat if something happens vs. whether you're wearing a helmet or not determining if you dump the bike. I believe that outside the primary objective (protection from injury after a crash) the seat belt has more use than a helmet, though I'm sure there are cases where having a helmet on did save the rider from crashing.

While MI did repeal the helmet law, they kept the eye protection requirement, ostensibly to allow you to continue to see and keep the bike shiny side up. You're allowed to let your head splatter when it hits the pavement, but you're not allowed to crash due to a bug in the eye.


And if anyone needs some incentive to wear gear (I still need to get a few more pieces myself), check out Road Rash Girl. http://web.archive.org/web/200706251...n_learned.html is an archived copy of her original posting of the story.

Here are the pics that are missing from the article (links due to the graphic nature).
image1.jpg
image2.jpg
image3.jpg
image4.jpg
image5.jpg
image6.jpg

And that wasn't even really a crash, more like just falling off the back of the bike.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by Alex

Risk *of* crashing. Not risk *in* crashing. I get your point, but I think you're missing mine, and the original one I was referring to.

I get it the difference between in and of. The difference is not the same as is and is. I understand that if you have health insurance it does not change your chances of getting sick.


I know, you know that eating healthy and getting plenty of exercise is no substitute for health insurance. I will do both and I do not want to pay for people who skip the insurance who are leeching off the rest of us who do


Riding in a safe manner is no substitute for a brain bucket.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by allanoue

. I understand that if you have health insurance it does not change your chances of getting sick.

Unless you get so worried about not having insurance that you have to see me. But there really is no need to worry because I don't accept insurance anyways (I do accept BitCoin though).

*Just being silly (although it's true). Please let's not debate health insurance here.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

check out Road Rash Girl. http://web.archive.org/web/200706251...n_learned.html is an archived copy of her original posting of the story.

Here are the pics that are missing from the article (links due to the graphic nature).
image1.jpg
image2.jpg
image3.jpg
image4.jpg
image5.jpg
image6.jpg

And that wasn't even really a crash, more like just falling off the back of the bike.

Confused boner.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by headshrink

Unless you get so worried about not having insurance that you have to see me. But there really is no need to worry because I don't accept insurance anyways (I do accept BitCoin though).

*Just being silly (although it's true). Please let's not debate health insurance here.

Why do you want to debate health insurance?

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by allanoue

Why do you want to debate health insurance?

Assuming you meant *NOT* debate.
Because I'm here for motorcycles and the occasional light-hearted silliness.