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Old June 18th, 2018, 05:56 PM   #1
danno25nh
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Decisions

So I am well and truly bitten by the bug. Wasn't trying but ever so lightly got knee down yesterday.

I have the 2014 SE ABS and an 09 650 Versys. The choice is:

Sell the 300 and keep the versys, a better all round bike for me with bags and long legs for longer trips. Then buy a true track bike.

Sell the versys and keep the 300 relatively stock (a more grins per mile bike), and buy a track bike.

Keep both and fully track the ninja.
I''m not loving swapping parts on and off and such, so a dedicated track bike makes sense.

I got irritated yesterday when I was begging the baby ninja to go faster but also loved how I could focus on my skills so not sure if I want much more bike.

So question for the group is, premade ninja track bike? seems much cheaper. I've found a few nice ones.

Odds of out growing the ninja in 1 season?
Is it a shame to tear up a pretty SE edition?
Will a slight upgrade to KTM 390 be a noticeable step up?
The performance delta between 300 and 600 seems a huge jump I'm not sure I want to take.

TLDR: I'm allowed 2 bikes. 1 track, one street. What to do?!
If I decide to build the 300 I'll have tons of build questions :P
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Old June 18th, 2018, 07:18 PM   #2
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Dedicate the Ninjette to track. A small bike will teach you A LOT about being a better rider. A big bike will mask mistakes. The instructors at my local track organization kick my butt on little bikes any time they want.

Small bikes are also a lot cheaper to run. Less expensive tires, mostly.

If you do find a really sweet, built up larger track bike for a great price, don't hesitate to buy it. Sort out the sale of our existing bike later. I pretty much STOLE my R6 with full Ohlins, less than 9000 miles, titanium exhaust, etc. etc. I could have parted it out and made money... that kind of deal. Don't let a shiny tempting bike lure you into spending money that you don't need to. I'm talking about coming across a great deal and jumping on it.

If you do buy a dedicated track bike, look at what people ride and go that way. Popular bikes are popular for a reason (e.g. SV650, R6) Spares forever, lots of knowledge, good aftermarket. If it's weird, good luck keeping it running for a long time.

But until you do find a suitable race steed, track that Ninjette. Pick up some used race bodywork and source the proper mods (clip ons, rearsets, etc.) Get decent stuff (Woodcraft), don't cheap out on eBay chinese crap.

Make smart investments in the amenities you need to make the track pleasant. Riding is just part of the day. You're also hanging out, eating and sleeping. Might as well enjoy the experience.

BUY GOOD GEAR. Just spend the money, already.

While it's not hard to get your Ninjette ready for the track, ff you do find a prepped Ninjette it can simplify matters and may be worth the sale of your existing bike just to save the hassle. Do your homework and see what it'd cost to prep your own bike. That'll give you the info you need to evaluate a purchase.

Do not be put off by no title or a bike that's been lowsided. My R6 is untitled due to a quirk of Connecticut law... the bike originally came from out of state and has been a track bike since new. To title it here, it has to be street-legal, and it will never be. So no title. Yeah, it's been down and has some scratches, but it's straight and rides beautifully.

Bang for the buck investments for track days (assuming you've got gear and basic bike prep covered):

1) More track time
2) Instruction
3) More track time
4) Suspension
5) More track time
6) Tires
7) More track time
8) Brakes
9) More track time
....
...
87) Power mods
....
....
132) A bigger bike
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Old June 18th, 2018, 07:20 PM   #3
DannoXYZ
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AHahhahahah, we brought another one over to dark side !!!! Here, have a cookie!!!

I recommend selling 300-ABS and buying prepped track-bike. You'll want to see upgraded fork/shock for your weight. Emulators and pre-load adjusters. A shock with damping-adjustment. Suspension mods will completely transform bike's on-track behavior and put it above RC390 (which will need track-mods too). Removing all lights and putting on fibre-glass bodywork will chop off 40-50lbs which you'll notice immediately.

So for probably less than what you'll get for selling 300-ABS, you can pick up prepped race-bike... because:

- you may dump it, don't want to mess up clean street-bike and lose half its value

- save yourself tonne of money & time because someone else has done work track-prepping it for you

- don't go to crazy with upgrading bike, spend money on gear and track-day entry fees (you're gonna make continuous improvement for +5-yrs).

- use decent street/DOT-R tyres, no need for warmers, they're ready for abuse after 1-lap. Ken Hill and Rickdiculous Racing School uses stock R6 with Dunlop Q3 and are only couple seconds off their MotoAmerica race bike with GPA-Pro race tyres! Also much easier to learn limits of tyres and how they slide on non-race tyres (race-tyres have no signals at all that they're gonna slide).

- you won't outgrow bike in year, maybe 3-5 years? I'm on my 3rd season on 250 (started on 600) and I'm still getting faster and faster.

Video of beating up on 600 & 1000s. Look at how far they get away from me on straights!

Link to original page on YouTube.


Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; June 19th, 2018 at 06:36 AM.
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Old June 19th, 2018, 02:10 AM   #4
AwDang
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Sell the 300
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Old June 19th, 2018, 05:38 AM   #5
Dave Wolfe
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Sell the 300!!

Are you thinking of sticking to track days or do you think you may have the bug to race? That will influence what sort of track bike to buy.
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Old June 19th, 2018, 09:09 AM   #6
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Here's the thing:

Objective is to get on the track. Making that contingent on buying a track bike could prompt a poor purchase decision. I met a guy at my last track day who paid -- get this -- $5500 for an okay-but-not-fantastic SV650. He didn't do his homework, didn't wait... he wanted a bike NOW and walked right into that one.

Run whatcha brung until a good deal comes along.

If you do track-ify your 300 keep the stock bits and store them. When you do sell, it'll go easier and be more profitable if you return it to street trim and sell the race parts separately.
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Old June 19th, 2018, 09:12 AM   #7
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PS: More than one track in this part of the country is imposing very strict noise limits and loud bikes are getting black-flagged. It's not going away. Safe bet that more and more tracks will start doing the same.

Take this into consideration when looking at used bikes, or at modifying yours. One of the most popular, but least useful on a $$/gain basis, is an exhaust. Louder is not better. Louder is louder.
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Old June 19th, 2018, 09:27 AM   #8
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How long does it take to sell your bike and buy track-prepped one? A week or two?


I actually got meatballed for noise at Laguna two weeks ago! Somehow I blew by at 92.4db. The one time I didn't hug left side of track because there were 5 other guys there!

I'm using el-cheapo (not anymore) muffer from Ali, with noise-insert. It actually doesn't seem to be as powerful as my Tyga muffler, so I'm putting that back on with my Laguna elbow!

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Old June 19th, 2018, 10:02 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
How long does it take to sell your bike and buy track-prepped one? A week or two?
Took me months to sell my 250 and I wasn't asking a lot. It was clean, too. Take a massive loss and yeah, you can sell quick... but who wants to do that in the name of expediency?

Finding a track bike isn't a problem. Finding a good bike at a reasonable price takes patience.
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Old June 19th, 2018, 01:57 PM   #10
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True, not all track-bikes are upgraded way you'd want.
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Old June 19th, 2018, 04:26 PM   #11
danno25nh
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Track days not racing most likely.
I did look at a well set up SV650 GXR front suspension. Ohlins rear.
Braided lines yada yada. Debating if I want a carb. $2800

Not convinced I want more HP than the SV or 300/400 class bikes.
For a pre-prepped bike I prioritize suspension over all the other upgrades.
Not chasing every % point of HP but do want predictable handling.

I'm going to put the 300 for sale. Its a pretty bike!
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Old June 20th, 2018, 04:12 AM   #12
MLR
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Me, I would sell the Ninjette, then by a R6, ZX6R, GSXR600, CBR600, whichever one floats your boat.

Your Versys is a much better bike for the road.

My mate swaps out his track bike every few years, buys them at auction with light damage, then buys a ebay fairing and goes for it.

I've never seen him lose money doing this.

Why only a 600, there cheaper than bigger bikes, parts are everywhere, and it will take a few years before upgrading to something bigger cc is warranted, me I would never need more power than my ZX6R, I know my limits.
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Old June 20th, 2018, 07:30 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danno25nh View Post
Track days not racing most likely.
I did look at a well set up SV650 GXR front suspension. Ohlins rear.
Braided lines yada yada. Debating if I want a carb. $2800

Not convinced I want more HP than the SV or 300/400 class bikes.
For a pre-prepped bike I prioritize suspension over all the other upgrades.
Not chasing every % point of HP but do want predictable handling.

I'm going to put the 300 for sale. Its a pretty bike!
I've got a friend that raced a SV for years (1st gen - carbed) and recently sold it to buy a R3 for the track.

He's an experienced competitor, and says the smaller R3 is just more fun on the track.

I have a couple SV street bikes, but if I were heading to the track I might go with something smaller. I'd check out the race class structure, number of entrants, and what is available already set-up. You may decide racing is more fun than trackdays, and you wouldn't want to have to switch everything up to compete. Sometimes at the end of the season the top guys decide to move on, and sell their bikes, so look for deals on smaller race bikes around then.
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Old June 20th, 2018, 09:51 AM   #14
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I started out tracking a 600 and it was way too much for me. The extra weight made learning more difficult; I wasn't comfortable with muscling and forcing it to brake and turn. Moving to 250, I learned a lot faster and made improvements quicker.
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Old June 20th, 2018, 04:55 PM   #15
Dave Wolfe
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At busier track days, a 250 / 300 just sucks in beginner and intermediate groups. Guys on 600s / 1000s will slow to a crawl in the turns and then rocket down the straights, making it impossuble for you to get any clean laps. Passing rules for each group prevents you from passing them. Its just frustrating. At the track addix events (omaha) my 250 was fine and fun. Motovid in the Chicago area? 250 sucked. Topeka with St John was fun on 250.
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Old June 20th, 2018, 05:12 PM   #16
danno25nh
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I had a few issues with 600s slow in corners and too fast to pass on straights with St. Johns.
Of course one idiot on brand new R1 who complained about control riders, decided to pass me on back straight, failed to brake in time on turn 10 and off into the grass... twice.

I posted the ninjette and am looking at one from Bike Pass in Fla.
They indicated they set up their race bikes with 120's on rear. We spent a bit of time talking about pros and cons of that.
I'm still debating that or stay with 140.

Signed up for MCRA at Gateway and more at Heartland.
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Old June 20th, 2018, 06:12 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danno25nh View Post
I had a few issues with 600s slow in corners and too fast to pass on straights with St. Johns.
Of course one idiot on brand new R1 who complained about control riders, decided to pass me on back straight, failed to brake in time on turn 10 and off into the grass... twice.

I posted the ninjette and am looking at one from Bike Pass in Fla.
They indicated they set up their race bikes with 120's on rear. We spent a bit of time talking about pros and cons of that.
I'm still debating that or stay with 140.

Signed up for MCRA at Gateway and more at Heartland.
ive seen both size tires get to the podium, i say its about 50/50 at the races here.
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Old July 9th, 2018, 09:06 PM   #18
danno25nh
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I ended up with the sv650. Took it to heartland and enjoyed it. sold the 300. Was about to buy the 390 but noticed a 2015 brand new 690 duke.
I got the dealer to come down 2k, give me 300 more trade in on the ninja and dealer cost parts accessories for 30 days.

The duke is big fun and would be fun at the track.
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Old July 10th, 2018, 03:38 AM   #19
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Late to this, but I'm happy to hear you jumped at that SV. As others have mentioned, a 300 can be rather frustrating for non-race trackdays. Once you're fast on one, it gets a bit better, but learning to get fast on one is probably the hard way to do things. Unless there's a kart track around that'll let you run one, then it's game-on.

For a standard sized track, SVs are a great mix of power and handling. Enough speed to keep you safe from straight-line heroes, and enough of everything else to pass 'em in the curves. Until you're getting into racer territory, they're almost as easy on tires as a Ninja. And they're abundant enough that if you encounter a mechanical problem and/or do some high-speed gardening, every paddock will have people and parts to help fix it.
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Old July 16th, 2018, 08:41 PM   #20
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First bike I ever took to the track was my 2006 S2R-1000 Ducati Monster. I had fun on it, but I was always worried about dropping it and it was definitely not a great track bike. Bought myself a 2005 ZX6R which had some nice track mods, and I really improved a lot on it. When it decided to barf up its transmission, I moved to a really nice 2009 GSXR-750 track bike, which I managed to improve my lap times significantly. Then I made the mistake of buying a 300 and now that is pretty much all I ride anymore. Anyone need a very fast GSXR-750? I seem to have one sitting a lot in my garage

Looking back I would have gotten faster and more confident quicker by learning on the 300. When some wrecked 400s come on the market I'll probably trade up, but that's really as far as I want to go back up the horsepower and weight ladder again. The 300/400 are as much, if not more fun then the bigger bikes and they are a lot cheaper to run.
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