RPMs too high?

[Lockshi3]

Hi everyone-

Just put about 150 miles on my new bike - absolutely love it. So I adjusted the clutch cable so that the throw wasn't so long (when I first got it- the engagement point was as far as possible! completely impossible to ease the gas in smoothly). Now the engagement point is closer to the handlebars (maybe half way or so).... then I got onto the turnpike/highway. My RPMs were all the way up to 11-12k even though I was in 6th (at 80mph)??? It sure sounds like I only got into 5th, but I tried twice to shift up - totally did not happen. So my question is... Why would something like this happen? Do I now need to make my clutch cable tighter (less play?)... Obviously something is wrong after riding another Ninja 250 earlier today all the way in 6th at highway speed (80mph) and was only in 8-9k rpms. To me, it sounds like I was really in 5th but something was preventing me to shift up any further. any advice is appreciated! thanks!

[kkim]

before you go troubleshooting a problem that may not be there, take the bike back out and this time count your shifts so you know exactly what gear you are in and make sure it's making it into 6th gear.

the clutch cable adjustment you made (making it "looser") has no bearing on the engine revving too high.

[Lockshi3]

Yeah I will try that, thanks! - the strange part is... if I was in 5th the whole time, why wouldn't let me go into 6th at all?? (on multiple attempts)

[kkim]

dunno, but until we know if the bike is making it to 6th or not, we can't help to isolate where the problem might be. If it is in fact not getting into sixth, it may be an operator problem or there might actually be something wrong with your transmission.

[Cuongism]

When you say another 250, do you mean someone else's 250? Ask if they changed their sprockets since that can lower their rpms for the same speed.

[Lockshi3]

Yes , sorry someone else's 250 today - for about 40 min on the highway (so I distinctly remember @80mph it was more in the 8-9k range) - He bought his used, so there is always the possibility that sprocket change was done, but I do not believe so . I also tried to read around some more and it seems that at highway speed of 80mph , 8-9ks seems the norm. Tomorrow I'll try to get out again (if weather permits), and actually count for sure on the highway. Either way I think it will be an issue!! If I count to 6, why the heck am I at 11K doing 80?! and if I only get to 5th and try really hard, why isn't it going to 6th?! ugh!!!!! New bikes are supposed to be fun no headaches yet!!

[Cuongism]

According to gearingcommander.com, 80mph is about 10k rpm (not sure if it's indicated or actual speed). Sorry, I haven't been stock for awhile so don't have first hand experience what 80mph translates to, but 10-11k might be correct. Maybe someone riding stock can chime in?

[alex.s]

+1 on counting gears. its basically a requirement of riding bikes... or anything with sequential gears. even if you have a gear indicator you should still keep track in your head so you don't need to look down.

[Lockshi3]

Tested today. Could get it into 6th. Still high revving (11.5rpms at 75+). Did they change any gearing for 2011? Seems rather high. Thanks!

[kkim]

Sounds like you may have a CDI problem. There have been bikes that have the tach reading differently at different temps. I can't find the exact thread, but here's one of them...
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...&highlight=cdi

I'd keep an eye on it by monitoring the rpm reading at 60 mph in sixth gear. IIRC, it should read somewhere around 7,000 rpm with stock gearing. I may be wrong on that figure... can someone else confirm?

There doesn't appear to be any performance issues with this problem, but on occasion there have been. Talk with your dealer if you see a definite pattern to the rpm readings varying at the same speeds on different occasions.

[Lockshi3]

Thanks. Appreciate your advice. I'll try the 60mph test sometime later/this week. Worse comes to worst, I am picking the plates up next week so I will definitely mention it then. I'm just hoping I won't get a brush off response because it is clearly not normal versus a 2009 250 (stock). Actually you are right about the 7k at 60mph - found it from a source's spec sheet. Thanks again , and hope it gets fixed soon. Surely dampens my mood for a brand new bike

[kkim]

Amanda,

Look at it from the bright side. At least it's not an issue that affects the ridability of the bike. Sure you need to get it repaired if it's an issue, but you can still ride and enjoy the bike until then.

have fun, ride safe...

be sure to update this thread with what you find.

[Lockshi3]

Thanks Kelly. The more reading I do, the more it points me to a cdi problem. Do you know of any DYIs for swapping in a new one, or pre-gen? Also, is Kawasaki aware of faulty CDIs?(just wondering if the dealer will give me a hard time or not) thanks!!

[kkim]

Swapping in a new one is easy enough, but no guaranty that it will be any better than the one you have.

Best to monitor the rpms at 60 mph and get a good feeling on what the CDI is saying to the tach. At that point, alert the dealer and see how your complaint/observation is received. Some dealers are very good with working with their customers, most are horrible. Now is a good time for you to find out.

There are alternatives out there, but build a good case on your problem and then give the dealer a chance to make it right. You have a warranty with your new bike... use it.

I know it's a PITA, but like I said, at least it's not a problem that is affecting the rideability of the bike.

gl

[Lockshi3]

Thanks for your help. I'm going to contact the dealer today. Will post with an update when the issue is finally resolved!

[glock_19]

FWIW I'm at 60mph (8,000 RPM) and 80mph (10,000 RPM)

[kkim]

Amanda,

here's a good post about rpms at different speeds with stock gearing.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...91&postcount=7

[Lockshi3]

Thanks Kelly. Talked to the dealer today. Bringing it in on Sat. They said they would test ride etc. I'm really really hoping they will notice that at 80mph, 11k rpms isn't the norm! And doh to that link saying during break in period shouldn't hit 11k lol oh well

[wtfh4xx]

Sorry to thread jack, how exactly did you adjust the engagement point of the clutch lever?
I need to move mine closer to the grip, as right now in first im feathering with my fingertips which is no fun.

edit: p.s. At 80 mph im at 10k RPM

[Lockshi3]

There are two adjustment pieces I guess you could say. A lock piece, and the adjustment piece. The piece that locks the position is more like a wheel, and the other piece is the piece you actually turn to adjust the cable. There is also an adjustment near the oil tank I believe (don't quote me, since I didn't touch that part!) I can't remember which way I turned the piece but turning so that the adjustment screw and the locking piece have a smaller gap wil produce more play, easier engagement. When I first got the bike the gap between the screw and locking piece was huge and the engagement point was all the way at the end furthest from the handlebar. That was probably a horrible explanation and I apologize!! I am trying to learn as well! maybe kkim will chime in just like with all my problems and poor knowledge lol

[wtfh4xx]

Nah man, that was perfect!
Ima go adjust it right now, thanks

[Lockshi3]

No problem. I'm actually taking it back tomorrow with a lot of printed out literature from the forums. I heard if even the dealer gives me a problem (which I don't think they will, but you never know), I can call Kawi up in Cali and request the part. Will keep this thread open with updates once I receive them!! I also hope this benefits someone in the future just like all the past threads on this problem has done for me

[kkim]

is the tach always reading wrong or is the problem intermittent?

[Lockshi3]

For the past week I've had it, it's always been wrong. And I've spent a lot of time between the two bikes this past weekend and it was pretty night and day (same highways and speed when I rode both and same weather). Granted, the weather hasn't been much cooler. I'm tempted to take it out tonight to see how much less the rpms would drop, but at this point I'm pretty convinced it's the CDI overheating. Unless, is it possible for the tach to be defective and the cdi to be ok?

[kkim]

normally, when this problem arises, it's the CDI that's the source of the problem, so I'd say your tach is good. No matter, let the dealership sort it out for you. My concern was that the problem will be there when you take it in. Many times, people would take their bikes in and the CDI wouldn't act up, so it would appear "normal" to the dealership.

Make sure your problem is repeatable.

[Lockshi3]

Understood. It is certainly consistent. In fact, I rode the 2009 bike home the day I picked it up, and the owner of the 2009 rode mine and even noticed that first ride home it revved a lot higher. This was also late at night (cooler). This past weekend has been a ton of highway (unfortunately), but then again, I was able to a/B test a lot between the 09 and 11 bikes. I'm hoping if they need to order the part it won't take too long either!! I want to ride it !!

[Live2ride]

I didn't realize this much but on hot days my bike can be at around 9k at 60mph, normally it is around 8k. when I switched to a 15t sprocket today, I noticed the rpm were only around 6.5k rpm at 60mph, later I went out for another ride and it went up to 8k again. Does this mean I have a CDI problem?

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Live2ride

I didn't realize this much but on hot days my bike can be at around 9k at 60mph, normally it is around 8k. when I switched to a 15t sprocket today, I noticed the rpm were only around 6.5k rpm at 60mph, later I went out for another ride and it went up to 8k again. Does this mean I have a CDI problem?

sounds like it.

[Live2ride]

Originally Posted by kkim

sounds like it.

Well I'm gonna punch my CDI in the face to see if that fixes the problem . On a more serious note, does this mean it simply misreads the rpm and that my actual rpm are lower than it's showing (normal)? It's not necessarily something I would want to fix if it's simply misreading it, unless it were to start bouncing off the rev limiter at 5 mph .

[kkim]

most CDI problems are just erroneous readings... doesn't affect engine performance at all. There are instances of the CDIs going bad, but if that were the case, riding the bike would be very difficult.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Live2ride

Well I'm gonna punch my CDI in the face to see if that fixes the problem .

[wayanlam]

Originally Posted by Lockshi3

And doh to that link saying during break in period shouldn't hit 11k lol oh well

as long as you DONT keep a constant steady RPM (especially high) during the break in period, you should be perfectly fine. keep varying your rpm, dont be afraid to let her loose now and again, just dont hold the same rpm over a long time.

however you mentioned several times that its been highway riding, which i could only assume means that you are usually driving at a constant speed, and constantly at 10~11k rpm on a bike with just 150 miles isnt doing it much good.

at least THATS what ive read, and after reading all the details as to why a certain way to drive during break in affects the bike differently compared to another way, well it made sense, lol

if i sorta remember correctly, it has to do with the way that the piston rings are still fitting themselves to the bore, and if you keep a constant high rpm, it gets too hot, and that can damage the rings or the sleeve since they have not matched up perfectly yet. after 1k miles or so, u can ride how u want

anyhow, sry if this is kinda off topic, but i thought you might like to know just before you keep doing looooong constant high rpm highway rides, hehe...

W.

[Lockshi3]

Thanks for the info!! Some has been some smaller roads and some just plain highway/turnpike. Unfortunately to get to where I needed to go, I have to take the highway for a bit. Next time, I'll just remember to vary my speed and gears more if possible. The last thing I'd want is more issues!! Lol

[Lockshi3]

Short update: dropped off the bike today - did the 60mph test -revs at 9k. When I brought it to be dropped off, the guy was nice and said that the other guy did some research and is aware of the CDI issue. They will test it this weekend just to determine the it's the CDI for sure, but good news is, they won't hesitate on ordering and replacing the part! I was a little nervous, but it seems like this dealership is a stand-up dealership. Will keep you posted!!

[kkim]

[Lockshi3]

Small update. Not sure if good or bad so I'd like some opinions...
They tested, agreed the rpms shown are too high at given speeds at 6th. They said they also called Kawasaki to see what is recommended and the only thing they are replacing is the tach???? I spoke to the guy explaining why it might not be, but he's still moving ahead with only ordering the tach. Any opinions on what I can do?? Or just see how it all pans out after a new tach install? Maybe he's right, and if he is, how common is a faulty tach?
Thanks!

[kkim]

Let them replace the tach. It's learning experience for them, too, it seems. If it fixes it, you've solved your problem. If not, they'll see it hasn't been fixed and will need to continue to solve it.

I know it might seem frustrating, but they need to continue as they are directed my whomever is making the decisions at the district level for warranty repair.

other than the this problem, how are you liking the bike?

[Lockshi3]

I absolutely love it. I have no real complaints besides this slight tach/cdi issue. The only bummer now is I've been waiting a week, then they'll get the part, install, and then pick up and pray that it works. I can't go another 1 week plus without riding. Already it's been a week and I'm going nuts without riding! I'm very happy I went with the 250 ninja though. It's great for a first bike and tons of fun.

[kkim]

sorry... they still have your bike? I would think for a non disabling repair, they would have buttoned it back up and returned your bike until the part came in. That blows.

glad to hear you're enjoying the bike.

[Lockshi3]

Yep I Actually mentioned that same exact thing. Turns out the part will be here on Friday so I don't think I will pick it up for the two days. I'm REALLY hoping once it's in on Friday, I can pick up on Saturday. The thing that took forever was I dropped it off last week, they didn't do a road test until today.