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Old July 25th, 2022, 12:20 PM   #1
shspvr
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Need help diagnosing off wall run problem

Whenever I am going try going down the highway at 60 to 70 the bike seem to be cut out then back in like loss of power when holding the rpm in top gear very odd.
1: I triple checked the carburetor just to be sure it was clean in all passage even clean and reoil the air filter.
2: Try swap CDI
3: Try swap Coils
4: Try even change the resistor sparks plug to non-resistor

The volt is above 14.2 to 14.5v
The only thing hasn't check is the pickup coil (Update check in spec 132ohm)

Last futzed with by shspvr; July 25th, 2022 at 02:32 PM.
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Old July 25th, 2022, 01:02 PM   #2
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tank vent issue?
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Old July 25th, 2022, 01:46 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducatiman View Post
tank vent issue?
Yup I try leaving it open and still no change I did check the flow it was really fast flow with the bike running in to large bottle and with filter on I even try with choke on when dose this.
When dose the loss of power thing which is odd I can still accelerate when dose this
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Old July 25th, 2022, 02:30 PM   #4
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Only in top gear? What if you go same speed in 4th or 5th?
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Old July 25th, 2022, 02:33 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Only in top gear? What if you go same speed in 4th or 5th?
I have to give that shot
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Old July 25th, 2022, 05:17 PM   #6
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Measure continuity across kickstand-switch connectors when kickstand up. Then wiggle kickstand.

also:

1. measure voltage at each coil's red wire
2. measure voltage going into ign-switch, white wire
3. key ON, measure voltage going into fusebox, brn wire

redo above while assistant shakes harness

.... more tests once I look up wiring diagram...
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Old July 25th, 2022, 06:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Only in top gear? What if you go same speed in 4th or 5th?
it seem happen more above 40mph and yes the same 4 and with 5 some time 3rd gear to
I check out voltage list and specially that kickstand switch
Being I had engine out due to a little mistake of mine long story short don't used champion spark plugs it destroyed all the exhaust valves thanks goodness I had an extra head.
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Old July 25th, 2022, 09:13 PM   #8
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Ah yes, engine out may have disturbed some wiring. They're pretty crispy at this age.

Can't stress enough never to use Champion plugs: Ninja 250 FAQ - Changing the spark plugs & brands to avoid!!!
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Old July 26th, 2022, 06:29 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shspvr View Post
Whenever I am going try going down the highway at 60 to 70 the bike seem to be cut out then back in like loss of power when holding the rpm in top gear very odd.
1: I triple checked the carburetor just to be sure it was clean in all passage even clean and reoil the air filter.
2: Try swap CDI
3: Try swap Coils
4: Try even change the resistor sparks plug to non-resistor

The volt is above 14.2 to 14.5v
The only thing hasn't check is the pickup coil (Update check in spec 132ohm)
Try taking it out for a quick spin with the air filter out and see how it runs.

It may run odd down low, but see if the top-end issue changes.

Over-oiling the air filter will cause odd problems, and may be contributing to your issues.

Carb diaphragms looked fine?

Or something isn't assembled or adjusted properly in the carbs.
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Old July 26th, 2022, 08:19 AM   #10
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Just so you know jkv45 the bike run fine in fact it hauls butt all way red line and seem to run fine all-around town.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
Try taking it out for a quick spin with the air filter out and see how it runs.
done see below

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
It may run odd down low, but see if the top-end issue changes.
I try and check and update this part and one above

UPDATE: After remove the air filter it doesn't want to accelerate rigth like bogs or hesitating


Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
Over-oiling the air filter will cause odd problems, and may be contributing to your issues.
The thing is it was doing that before I clean air filter and after

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
Carb diaphragms looked fine?
I did check it and it look fine and seem to be holding a vacuum and vacuum slide seal are both fine to

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
Or something isn't assembled or adjusted properly in the carbs.
The thing is it was doing that before and after carb clean so keep that in mind, I thought maybe at first some particles of dirt got into the carburetor air passage well it was sitting for two weeks while I waiting for new head gasket and NGK plus and oil filter and clutch gasket to do a clutch inspection which turned out to be one of the other common problems with basket and gear being really sloppy which it has and I planning to change it out to a newer clutch from the 08-12 model during the winter months.

Last futzed with by shspvr; July 28th, 2022 at 06:22 AM.
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Old July 26th, 2022, 08:33 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Ah yes, engine out may have disturbed some wiring. They're pretty crispy at this age.

Can't stress enough never to use Champion plugs: Ninja 250 FAQ - Changing the spark plugs & brands to avoid!!!
Yup the bike originally had Autolight 9194 plugs which where non-resistor and it was causing all kinds of problems with my Bluesky B1M Dash Cam with RF noise and at that time our local auto parts store didn't have any NGK in stock only Champion I would had wait two at time even from eBay it was taking forever no thanks to pandemic at time.
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Old July 26th, 2022, 01:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shspvr View Post
Just so you know jkv45 the bike run fine in fact it hauls butt all way red line and seem to run fine all-around town.

I try and check and update this part and one above

The thing is it was doing that before I clean air filter and after

I did check it and it look fine and seem to be holding a vacuum and vacuum slide seal are both fine to

The thing is it was doing that before and after carb clean so keep that in mind, I thought maybe at first some particles of dirt got into the carburetor air passage well it was sitting for two weeks while I waiting for new head gasket and NGK plus and oil filter and clutch gasket to do a clutch inspection which turned out to be one of the other common problems with basket and gear being really sloppy which it has and I planning to change it out to a newer clutch from the 08-12 model during the winter months.
So the problem is when holding a consistent throttle position and RPM only?

If it ran the same before and after carb work, it could mean you didn't correct the problem when you were in the carbs.

Looking into the carbs from the airbox side, are the collars/needle jets protruding up into the venturis?

Collars/needle jets (silver pieces on the left) - https://faq.ninja250.org/images/e/eb/Jim_carb_2.jpg
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Old July 26th, 2022, 01:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Measure continuity across kickstand-switch connectors when kickstand up. Then wiggle kickstand.
I bypass it no change
I get to wire but so darn hot right now
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Old July 26th, 2022, 02:50 PM   #14
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Quote:
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So the problem is when holding a consistent throttle position and RPM only?

If it ran the same before and after carb work, it could mean you didn't correct the problem when you were in the carbs.
No after the head swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
Looking into the carbs from the airbox side, are the collars/needle jets protruding up into the venturis?

Collars/needle jets (silver pieces on the left) - https://faq.ninja250.org/images/e/eb/Jim_carb_2.jpg
Yes I'm ware of how collar need to be install with concave install first and convex seat match to jet holder end
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Old July 26th, 2022, 05:25 PM   #15
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It does have one other miner problem when engine acceleration but when let of gas you know deacceleration and get but on gas has bit of hesitation.
I wonder if hot weather is causes a bit lean conditionbeing in 80f up to over 100f
I really drive me up a wall I guest recheck the timing in case it off

Any way here video from dash cam with buffer remove the stock make not diff just not as load which what I perfer but I want all to hear over the wind noise

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

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Old July 27th, 2022, 06:29 AM   #16
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Hmmm....it sounds like it accelerates and idles well.

Hard to pick out the odd noise, which sounds like wind noise mostly.

Just to clarify - the sound happens during steady throttle while cruising at higher RPMs?

Note the throttle position (1/8, 1/4, 1/2, etc.) and the RPM when the issue arises.

Did you shim the needles when you had the carbs off? Have you synced the carbs?

How old is the gas? Any chance of water or significant condensation in the tank?
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Old July 27th, 2022, 06:56 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
Hmmm....it sounds like it accelerates and idles well.
yup that it dose

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
Hard to pick out the odd noise, which sounds like wind noise mostly.
I know

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
Just to clarify - the sound happens during steady throttle while cruising at higher RPMs?
Well no it seem cutting out at slower speed but wasn't noticeable in tell swap the pipe
It dose around 6000 rpm and up I need to do testing
You be able to hear it start 20sec rigth after I pass the school

Link to original page on YouTube.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
Note the throttle position (1/8, 1/4, 1/2, etc.) and the RPM when the issue arises.
No sure somewhere around 1/8 to 1/4 best guest

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
Did you shim the needles when you had the carbs off? Have you synced the carbs?
No shim
Yes I have both are set rigth about 5.5inch at idles on sync gauge

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
How old is the gas? Any chance of water or significant condensation in the tank?
new about week old
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Old July 28th, 2022, 07:41 AM   #18
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Does it sound like it's backfiring?

If you hold the throttle steady, at say 3000 RPMs when sitting in the garage, can you get it to do the same?

Have you adjusted the valves?

A compression test could tell you if a valve is not closing properly or is burned.

What do the plugs look like?
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Old July 28th, 2022, 08:37 AM   #19
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Quote:
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Does it sound like it's backfiring?
No can hear that slight sputtering start form 25sec all way 46sec that hold at one rpm

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
If you hold the throttle steady, at say 3000 RPMs when sitting in the garage, can you get it to do the same?
I have to check

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
Have you adjusted the valves?
Yes the day I replace head and max clearance of .05 in and .06 ex

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
A compression test could tell you if a valve is not closing properly or is burned.
cyl 1=145psi and cyl 2=155psi dry test this head had 19,000 mile with blow head gasket which got install on 5500 mile motor that in bike now

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
What do the plugs look like?
I check and get close up photo and and post

Did you see post update about air filter ? P.S. it a UNI Air Filter

What you think ? install a bigger 40 Pilot Jet and 110 Main Jet
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0134.jpg (61.7 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0135.jpg (68.0 KB, 4 views)

Last futzed with by shspvr; July 28th, 2022 at 11:32 AM.
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Old July 28th, 2022, 01:03 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shspvr View Post
What you think ? install a bigger 40 Pilot Jet and 110 Main Jet
I would say no.

It pulls cleanly, revs fine at high RPMs, and the plugs look good - so I wouldn't change the jetting.

Did it do the same before changing the plugs? There are lots of counterfeit plugs out there that may be total junk.
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Old July 28th, 2022, 06:35 PM   #21
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I would say no.

It pulls cleanly, revs fine at high RPMs, and the plugs look good - so I wouldn't change the jetting.

Did it do the same before changing the plugs? There are lots of counterfeit plugs out there that may be total junk.
That what I though too it look darn good
I already try swap for brand new set of Autolite 9194 non-resistor but that was still give the same results

If have time tomorrow I'm going recheck the timing mark and lash just make sure it not off 1 teeth.

Really wish I had protable 2ch signal oscilloscopes that would see if there any electrical weirdness going on you know intermittent signal or voltage but that out my wheelhouse for funds right now.
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Old July 29th, 2022, 12:11 AM   #22
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NGK plugs look fine, no need to change getting. Hotter air is less dense, thus fewer O2 molecules per volume, so would need leaner jets for less fuel. At track, I always change to one size smaller for afternoon sessions to compensate for hotter air.

Are you using factory needles? Have photo of them?
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Old July 29th, 2022, 04:17 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
NGK plugs look fine, no need to change getting. Hotter air is less dense, thus fewer O2 molecules per volume, so would need leaner jets for less fuel. At track, I always change to one size smaller for afternoon sessions to compensate for hotter air.

Are you using factory needles? Have photo of them?
Yes, all factory jetting 38 and 105 if I recall right and yes, the stock needles the only thing that had changes was a new crossover fuel and overflow tube, float bowl gasket seal, float needle and pilot seal was installed last year after doing deep cleaning of the carb and keep the original Air Cutoff Diaphragm and Slide Diaphragm as look good.
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Old July 29th, 2022, 06:32 AM   #24
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new O-rings on fuel rail?
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Old July 29th, 2022, 06:45 AM   #25
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new O-rings on fuel rail?
Both tubes come with new o-ring
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Old July 29th, 2022, 07:21 AM   #26
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@shspvr must ask if you've checked *both ends of both hoses* located between carbs for semi-loose condition (at both carb ends and decel valve ends)

Could account for some weird running, no?
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Old July 29th, 2022, 07:26 AM   #27
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@shspvr must ask if you've checked *both ends of both hoses* located between carbs for semi-loose condition (at both carb ends and decel valve ends)

Could account for some weird running, no?
The hoses look good and no I haven't but will check hoses going down between carbs
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